2)      Holmgren will hire a GM, and though he had a "never say never" attitude toward coaching, his focus clearly was on building a front office that can win."Randy Lerner is my boss and I answer to Randy," he said. "Then it’s my job to kind of direct traffic and put the organization together after that.  I have all the responsibility anyone could ask for and now I have to hire good people."

3)      If there are concerns about him hiring good people, consider who he hired in Seattle. Mike Reinfeldt was his salary cap guy, and Reinfeldt is now president of the Tennessee Titans. Ted Thompson was his vice president of football operations, and Thompson now is executive Vice President and GM of the Green Bay Packers. Scott McCloughan was his Director of College Scouting, and McCloughan now is the GM of the San Francisco 49ers. That's not too shabby a list of hires.

4)      One way to measure a guy is when he admits his mistakes. Holmgren did just that when discussing his first draft in Seattle. He said the draft — which resulted in the selection of immortals Lamar King, Brock Huard and Karsten Bailey — was "less than spectacular." And he blamed it on the fact he was listening to two groups of people, the holdovers from before he was hired and the people he had brought in. He said he will not repeat the mistake. Which means he will act quickly to bring in the people he wants. "We didn't do a good job with the draft, because I didn't," Holmgren said. "I learned from that. Those types of errors, I trust I won't do again, I won't make again."

5)      It was also nice to hear Holmgren's honesty when asked if the Browns could turn things around in one year. "I would love to tell you, 'Sure, absolutely,'" he said. "But you guys know as well as anybody that sometimes you can't get all the pieces together in the first year. … Now, can you improve and get better? Absolutely. And I would be very disappointed if we couldn't do that. Just how much a flip you can make in one year, a lot of it depends on some key positions on the football team and those are the things we're going to be evaluating." Check.

6)      Holmgren said the right things about listening to the coach when it comes to implementing a system, but if he doesn't implement the West Coast offense then there's a problem in Jamaica — though given this weather it's hard to see any problem in Jamaica. That approach will be the foundation of the offensive thinking, and it will be the philosophy behind the hiring of coaches, the acquisition of players and the entire thinking going forward. It will be the philosophy of the team, and given Holmgren's resume it will be the philosophy for the next few years. Which will enable the Browns to actually build using a philosophy.

7)      No, I'm not a big fan of a president or GM having a say in the hiring of assistant coaches. And perhaps Holmgren will step back on this one, because really at this point it's speculation. But there's a lot of chatter out there that he will want to hire a couple of his longtime guys, Jim Zorn and Gil Haskell. Zorn has not had a good run as a head coach in Washington, but he was a very good quarterbacks coach. Haskell is a quality guy.  I would think that once Holmgren gets his people in place, there will not be a lot of mandates from above. I also would think he will hire a coach, too, who will want to hire these coaches because the president and the coach will be linked in approach and philosophy and system. If that makes sense. Finally, it might make some sense to keep Rob Ryan. As bad as the defensive numbers are, that side of the ball has shown real improvement — and clearly they play for Ryan.

8)      I also realize there is a starting over element to this, and I've criticized the continual starts and re-starts by the Browns. As Holmgren said: "If you keep blowing up the team it takes longer to fix it." I just think with Holmgren the process will be more logical and sensible, and that this hiring finally signals the beginning of the end of the perpetual rebuilding. And I feel that way even if Holmgren decides to keep Mangini. Holmgren has earned that trust.

9)      His assessment of the team also made sense when he said he doesn't think the Browns need a complete re-build. Because he thinks Mangini and the present organization have put down some blocks on which to build. "I think the current staff has tried very, very hard to start that process," he said. "To re-start it all over again, I don't think we have to do that. I really don't I hope it doesn't appear that way when we roll up our sleeves and dive in there."

10)   If Mangini is not retained, I don't know the group of new coaches Holmgren is considering. I've heard names like Marty Mornhinweg bandied about, but I don't know where the talk is coming from. Mornhinweg has been a head coach and proven he's a great coordinator. I think Holmgren goes to an assistant coach in the league from a West Coast offense team. It might not be the most well-known guy in the NFL, but it'll be someone who's smart and knowledgeable. It will be a guy like Sean Payton was when he was hired in New Orleans, or Tony Sparano when he was hired in Miami. And the process in Miami is much like what will happen in Cleveland. Sparano was hired as head coach, but Dan Henning — a Parcells guy — was hired as offensive coordinator. The group has made it work. There's no reason Holmgren's group can't make it work.

And … because it's the Browns … a bonus 11 …

11)  The more I think the more I really wonder whether Mangini wants to stay. He has done a more than admirable job this past month. His team has played better recently. But staying would require him to accept so many changes — and the philosophies and culture seem so different between what he's used to and what will be implemented. It almost seems like he might propose the idea of a buyout, and walk away with at least three wins in his last four games (perhaps four in a row). This would enable him to say his work was starting to pay dividends — he can make a case — and that he and Holmgren just saw things differently. This would allow the Browns to start fresh and give Mangini the dignity and credibility he has earned from the good December. It might actually be the best solution for everyone.

And … because it's Holmgren … a bonus 12 … 

12)  It's been quite a while since there was reason for real excitement with the Browns, but there is now with Holmgren leading the operation. He's not a miracle worker, and there will be mistakes, and things might not go swimmingly in 2010 on the field. But the general direction and the way he approaches things give reason for optimism. Finally.

Three and Out

Dear Pat,

I'm a 57-year-old, lifelong Browns fan. Started the season already hating the Eric Mangini hire. So why am I having a hard time warning up to the Holmgren thing?

My feelings about Mangini started to change when I read his interview with Clark Judge. I was impressed with his commitment to what he wanted to do as coach. Because I also wanted a Browns team that was "smart" like the Pats. I wanted to watch a team that didn't cause me to expect a flag on every play. I wanted a team that played and won without a lot of hoopla. I feel like I'm starting to see all that happen, and without a lot of talent with which to do it. Call it a foundation.

But now Holmgren comes in late, like a housing inspector whose car broke down, and considers tearing down the foundation and building his own kind of house. I know you like the hire.

So what exactly is his job description? Can anyone other than a neophyte or figurehead coach truly feel comfortable with the Big Show looking over his shoulder? I'm guessing you don't get that nickname by hiding out in your office all day. What about the GM?

What's the difference between a George Kokinis getting pre-empted from below, or a Holmgren appointee getting pre-empted from above? Once Holmgren gets his coach and GM figured out, what does he do with his time? Are we supposed to believe a successful coach will not interfere with the coach and GM – and I can't think of a better word than interfere.

Basically, I like what I'm seeing from the Browns. I hope Holmgren does too. Let's see what happens when Mangini is able to build and not have to tear down first. Let's assume he has learned from past drafts and will have a better one. I am optimistic. It's a nice thing to be.

Sincerely,

Dick Close

Dear Dick,

I hear your points, but in this case I think you're making a jump of negativity that isn't warranted. Where is there evidence Holmgren would "interfere"? I don't see him having that kind of ego or personality, and that's based on his previous work and approach. He worked with Ron Wolf, not against him. He worked with Ted Thompson and others in Seattle, not against them. He's smart. I truly believe he will recognize the delicacy of his position, and act appropriately.

Too, Holmgren said he didn't think he needed to tear down and start over but to build on what's present.

Your points about Mangini are justified. I can't argue, because there have been good signs and Mangini can make a case that his approach works. I, too, read the Clark Judge interview and found it compelling. I wish he'd said those things in Cleveland months earlier.

But the results on the field — the Browns do rank 32nd in both offense and defense in a 32-team league — and the fiasco with the former GM led to the search for Mike Holmgren. The only quibble I have with the December games is that they came after horrific September, October and November games. If we forget how bad the Browns were in that time, we're not being fair to the team or the fans. Those games count too.

Holmgren is not coming in like a job inspector. He's coming in as the leader.

It was a move that was needed. Many of us cried for a similar move last January. That it happened in December should not be reason to be upset about it.

Dear Pat,

Losing games was not the only reason informed Browns followers are against Mangini. You are far too accomplished a sportswriter to get suckered into this, "gotta give him some credit" attitude because of these latest wins. Think of a Volkswagen the next time you feel the need to give someone some credit for something. Maybe something isn't always better than nothing?

Regards, Jim Schwartz

Dear Jim,

Why do I wonder if I'm hearing from the coach of the Lions? (I'm not … this Jim graduated from Garfield in '67.)

I can't win regarding Mangini. Since I weighed in with my feelings about him, anything I write is either ripped for being too negative or criticized for being too soft.

It's interesting. Eric Wedge wins late games for the Indians when the season is over and gets to .500 and folks rip him. Mangini wins late games for the Browns when the season is over and folks are ready to erect a statue in his honor. I'm getting e-mails calling me every name in the book.

Whatever.

My opinion is just that, my opinion. I stand by it, but I'm not guaranteed to be right because I have the ability to type fast. Time will reveal what happens to him.

But I promise again that if he stays I will start fresh with him — and we'll see what happens.

Dear Pat,

This is by no means an endorsement of all that has gone on this season. That being said, is it a coincidence that after Jamal Lewis and Shaun Rogers are out for the year the Browns play better?

Could it be these two "professionals" or "veterans" could have been huge cancers in the locker room?  Complaining about hitting too much, etc?

In all honesty I can't really say I was sad to see Jamal "Slow to the Hole" Lewis go.

Ed 

Dear Ed,

Lewis has looked slow to the hole now that Jerome Harrison has seized his opportunity. But I will never agree with the fact that he and Rogers were cancers or problems.

The Browns are taking advantage of two things: Improved play and an easier schedule.

Sometimes backups just need opportunities.

Dear Pat,

I thought I'd throw out a different way of thinking about the Browns. I've spent my entire professional career working with start-up companies. In the early days of a start-up, profits aren't the main motivator. There are other factors at work that define start-up success. I'd say, in the NFL, the equivalent of profits is wins. And I would also say that the Browns are a start-up and shouldn't be judged by wins just yet. (I say start-up because any team that has won 6 or fewer games in 6 of the last 7 seasons is definitely not an established winner.)

As an observer from afar, I've been paying close attention to other factors that I think are important for a winning organization: quality of players, professionalism, discipline.

1. Discipline: I believe very strongly that most teams beat themselves in the form of turnovers and penalties. The Browns are one of the least penalized teams in football. Given that, they have a lot of room to improve on the takeaway side, being -14 on the season. They were -10 in the first 8 weeks and -4 since then, so at least a little better as I'd expect second half improvement with a "start-up" team.

2. Professionalism: You'd know better than me as you are around the players and coaches all the time, but it seems to me that the head cases are gone. The fact that they are playing this hard at the end of a lost season where lousy play could easily get the coach canned is probably a pretty good sign regarding the player's professionalism.

3. Quality: This is the part I've been paying attention to. In thinking about the players on the roster at last season's end, there was only one stand-out area of the team (special teams) and only a handful of average to above average players (Rogers, Jackson, Vickers, Cribbs, Thomas, Steinbach, in my estimation). Let's face it: when there is this little above average NFL talent on a team, you can't expect too many wins. In retrospect, it's amazing that Mangini didn't come out at the beginning of the season and say we'll be lucky to win three or four games.

Given that, it seems like the talent level has increased. Vickers, Thomas and Steinbach have been solid again. Cribbs is beyond mention, easily the most exciting player on the team and maybe the best (Thomas and Vickers are pretty darn good also). On offense, I'd say we can add Alex Mack to that group, as he seems to be having a solid season. I'd also say we can put running back to bed for at least one year, with Harrison finally showing why he rushed for 2000 yards his senior season at Washington State. So now we have seven above average offensive players (I'm including Cribbs here).

On defense, we've also had some players step up this year. D'Qwell Jackson and Shaun Rogers seem to be solid, of course. I'm also hearing good things about David Bowens, Matt Roth and Ahtyba Rubin, names we can add to the average to above average list. This takes our defense from two above average to five. There's a few other players that might be borderline for this list — Kamerion Wimbley was having a good year before he got hurt, Corey Williams was better, Eric Wright seems to be mixed — but let's go with five for argument sake.

That means the Browns have added seven more average to above average NFL players to this roster this year, more than doubling that number in one year.

Are there plenty of holes? You don't lose as much as the Browns have over the past seven seasons without having a lot of holes. But what I want to see right now is improvement, the addition of solid ball players who can help this team over the long run, a disciplined and professional bunch of guys. It will take years to build the talent level to be a New England Patriots or Indianapolis Colts or Pittsburgh Steelers.

There are plenty of reasons to let Mangini go and I have no idea whether he should stay or not. Luckily, I don't have to make that decision. But I do see improvement and Mangini deserves credit for that, whether they win or lose in their final game.

Elia Freedman Portland, Ore.

Dear Elia,

So noted on the improvement, but I don't know if I'm all that thrilled with seven average to above average players. Eleven average players equals an average team.

I can make a case that Mangini did not do well. You can make a case that there are signs he is starting to do well.

Bottom line is the decision comes down to Holmgren and Mangini sitting down and discussing: Can you be the coach and work the way I want you to and adopt the overall philosophies that have taken me to Super Bowls?

If the answer is yes, Mangini can stay.

If Holmgren thinks the answer is no, he doesn't.

More important, if Mangini doesn't want to be part of that approach, it's best for him and the Browns to part ways.

No matter what happens, there will be things we all will thank Mangini for.

We just have to see what happens.

(Want to be recognized in “Three and Out”? It’s a rare treat. Comment here or send an e-mail to pmcmanamon@thebeaconjournal.com, and put “First and 10” in the subject line.)

As for Holmgren …

2)      Sea legs. That's the image I keep coming up with when I think of his addition as president. He gives the Browns their sea legs. This team has had leaders, but none came from the football end. None brought the depth of experience on the football end that Holmgren has. He's coached, been involved in building teams, he's smart and he's worked with and presumably learned from smart people. He can address issues, ask "why" and help the team ride out the little crises every team experiences without them becoming traumatic or overly dramatic. He gives the Browns their sea legs to get through the waves and — hopefully — to calmer water.

3)      The General Manager will be a very, very important hire. I throw out some these names: Tom Heckert Jr. of the Philadelphia Eagles and Eric DeCosta of the Baltimore Ravens. Heckert would be outstanding, but it will be very tough to get him out of Philadelphia. DeCosta knows the division, but I would imagine if the Browns call Ozzie Newsome one more time to ask for permission to interview one of his guys he might go hide in Edgar Allen Poe's grave. This will be fascinating to see how Holmgren proceeds on the GM.

4)      It will also be interesting to see if he keeps Eric Mangini. Mangini was not his hire. He does not run the West Coast offense that Holmgren loves. Mangini's style with the media, though very cordial, is not the same as Holmgren's. Their cultures are much different. That being said, Holmgren was a coach, and he knows that it's not entirely fair to give a guy one year. But he also has to know that George Kokinis has filed an arbitration case against the Browns, claiming Mangini did not let him do his job. This seems like a very tenuous situation for the coach.

5)      It seems to me we might be looking at this the wrong way. Mangini came to Cleveland with what he perceived as a lot of power. He re-arranged the building, spent a ton of money, had a mural of Hall of Famers removed (it never returned) and acted like the king of the mountain. Like most kids, though, he has learned he can be pushed off the mountain. I wonder this: Does Mangini want to be part of a team where he has to surrender power and work for a guy who didn't hire him? Because if he stays, the perception will be that he's on a one-year tryout.

6)      If there is going to be a change, it almost seems like the best thing for Mangini and the Browns is to do it quickly and with dignity the day after the season. Make the move, thank Mangini for his work and simply state that the new president would like to hire his coach. That's the fairest approach to a difficult situation for Mangini. It's also fair to the team, the organization, and fair to the fans. Whether Mangini stays or goes, this team is starting over — from the bottom of the pack.

7)      As for that win over Kansas City … exciting … interesting … bizarre in some ways … entertaining. Any win is a good win, and two in a row is better.

8)      It's predictable, though. In fact it was predictable back in October when the Browns were losing. The December portion of the schedule had some games against teams struggling as badly as the Browns. Kansas City, Oakland, those kind of teams. If the Browns didn't compete against them, we'd have known the bottom truly had dropped out. They beat Pittsburgh impressively, and followed with a good win against Kansas City. It's good, but it doesn't suddenly mean that everything that happened earlier doesn't matter. Let's keep in mind that in every win this season the Browns quarterback threw for less than 100 yards. It all matters, the losses as well as the wins. But let's not do back flips. It's not justified to put extra meaning on a meaningless December game against a team with three wins. It is, as Bill Clinton might say, what it is.

9)      Jerome Harrison gains 286 yards rushing, prompting football types everywhere to say: Where did THAT come from? Harrison goes from ineffective to the Hall of Fame in about three weeks. He has games where you think he'll never make it to a game where you think he should be the featured back. No doubt Harrison was helped by the fact that the Chiefs were without two starting linemen, but 286 yards goes beyond any injury or injuries. It's special. (By the by … fullback Lawrence Vickers? A football player.) Now it's up to Harrison to prove he's the real deal and not the second coming of Lee Suggs.

10)   Josh Cribbs has overtaken Joe Thomas for my personal Player of the Year choice. Talk about an amazing player. Two kickoff returns in one game? Simply defies any and all odds. This proves a few things to me. Cribbs is one special player when used properly, and for him being used properly means as a returner and out of the backfield running the ball. A receiver he's not. Second, it's not surprising in one way. The Browns have a lot of good special teams players on the roster and they were facing a team that does not have a great roster, which means their special teams are not strong. If a standout can have a big game, it would be against a special teams group like Kansas City's. Finally, Cribbs is one special, special player — worth every penny he's going to be paid. Cribbs is a guy who might benefit from Holmgren's presence. A number of years back, the Packers had a tight end named Mark Chmura, who was pretty good. They traded for Keith Jackson from Miami, and he was pretty good. Once Jackson joined the team, Holmgren used both tight ends with two wide receivers. He lined them up alongside each other. Teams didn't know who to cover, and it was very effective. Holmgren is the kind of guy who might come up with some new ways to use Cribbs in the offense.

And … because it's the Browns … a bonus 11 …

11)   One other fallout from the hiring of Holmgren will be the positive reaction among players around the league. The impression of the team a week ago was not positive, and it would have made it more difficult to sign a free agent. Holmgren's credibility might open some possibilities that did previously did not exist. Which is a good thing. I know he has to prove himself in the new job, but he sure brings a lot of positives.

Three and Out

Dear Pat,

If I'm Mike Holmgren, I would tell Eric Mangini I want him to come to my home in Seattle the day after the season ends to discuss his future … then hand him a Cleveland-to-Seattle Greyhound bus ticket.

Don't you think we should withhold judgment on Holmgren for a month or two to see if he holds the door for Ahtyba Rubin at the local Panera, or gives Jim Brown's executive parking space at Berea to Jerome Harrison?

Brian D.

Twinsburg

Dear Brian,

I was all set for a "let me guess … you're here all week" response.

But you brought up holding the door at Panera. Have I told anyone that Brady Quinn once held the door for me at Panera? He didn't have to, but he did. He was walking in as I was walking out, and he stopped and held the door so I could go first.

These are the moments we need to recall during the holidays.

Dear Pat,

I just spent the better part of the morning reading the Seattle Times sports blogs and my conclusion is the majority of their fans are not happy Holmgren is leaving Seattle. Some astute fans even put out facts showing how good a GM he was by pointing out the players he signed, the fact that the offensive rankings of the team are all very high, and the fun fact that he is loved in the area.

Wow. I hope this works out.

It's also interesting is how many posts said how the Browns have real fans who will appreciate a great football mind and wished him well.

Maybe a red carpet World B Free coming-to-town party is required here.

Jeffrey B. Lucas

Dear Jeffrey B.,

Perspective is everything. To be honest, I'd have to say that Holmgren's tenure as GM was not great, but the team he coached did reach the Super Bowl so something was going right. I know this has yet to prove itself to be a wise move in Cleveland. I know he's never been a team president. But I also know that there are many reasons to believe it can work — as the fans in Seattle pointed out.

Dear Pat,

Landing Holmgren (is) awesome. But as a Browns fan you have to approach everything with some skepticism or even cynicism. Otherwise your heart turns to mush too quickly.  I know you can relate.

I see that many post blogs about your articles being too cynical blah blah blah. Hey, this is the Browns. No other team has put its fans through such heartbreak. So some cynicism is called for.

So that is why I am writing about Holmgren. So many positives are being reported about the meetings he has had with the Browns.

You know what this reminds me of?  A girl about to get dumped. "Sweetheart, it´s not you, it´s me." … "You´re a beautiful girl … Everything I could ask for … But I just feel … Ehh … Like I have to move on and focus on myself for a while … I love you … But I´m just not IN love with you …"

We shall see. But those are my impressions from the seats located in section "C"ynical.

Reed Dustin

Fresno, CA

Dear Reed,

Excuse my cynicism, but I'm not quite following the girlfriend thinking. Did you heist that Bailey's I was looking for last night?

(Want to be recognized in “Three and Out”? It’s a rare treat. Comment here or send an e-mail to pmcmanamon@thebeaconjournal.com, and put “First and 10” in the subject line.)

2)      Not that Holmgren's work in Seattle was perfect. But he knows football, having been around it his entire life. He coached 17 years, went to the playoffs 12 times. He went to three Super Bowls, and took Seattle to the playoffs six times. Geez … where do you sign up? Every quarterback he's worked with has improved. And… he's worked with winners, including a  real winner in Ron Wolf. Best as I can tell, Holmgren gets it. From what I've seen, Holmgren is not in it to satisfy his ego, obtain power or gain personal reward. He's in it to win.

3)      Holmgren would have to prove he can judge, scout and choose talent, because there were issues in Seattle. But there are two factors that seem to lean to the positive end of things if he takes over. Holmgren would be doing one job, not two. And, if the Miami Dolphins model is followed, he would be hiring a GM as well. Which means there would be another layer of responsibility in the building, which means more people contributing to what we hope would be smart decisions. Holmgren's role, should he choose to accept it, would be to guide the ship.

4)      Holmgren would also decide on the future of Eric Mangini. There would be input from owner Randy Lerner, but Lerner would not overrule a guy he brings in to run his football operations. For one, Lerner does not interfere. He goes out of his way not to interfere. For two, what sense would it make for an owner to spend a ton of money on a leader of football and then not let the leader of football be the leader of football.

5)      It well could be that Holmgren would want to give Mangini another year. He has gone on record saying a coach deserves more than one year. But he also said this on Seattle radio station KJR: "As a management person, you might have to make . . . a very difficult decision that way, if in your opinion you think it's absolutely going in the wrong direction.  But those situations are really few and far between." Interpret it as you will.

6)      This should put to rest all the rumblings that were emanating (like that word? … emanating … e-m-a- … never mind) from Berea that because the Browns beat Pittsburgh Mangini's job was safe for another year. That win over the Steelers was the best win a 1-and-11 team could have. It made the Browns 2-and-11.

7)      That win — and yes, it was a good win — does not change the reality that this season has been a mess of poor communication, of a forced bus trip for rookies and long practices for angry veterans, of poor second-halves and quirky on-field decisions like the timeouts against Detroit and Cincinnati. There has been clock mismanagement, message mismanagement and player mismanagement (see Quinn, Brady). There have been injuries during opportunity periods, hidden starting quarterbacks and rookies inactive for extended and mysterious periods of time. There has been improvement and growth lately, and the Pittsburgh game was a good one. But overall it's been a mess, and it doesn't make sense to hang your hats on two wins in terrible and equalizing weather against Buffalo and Pittsburgh when the Browns quarterbacks completed two and six passes.

8)      Some would say that a coach deserves more than one season to prove himself, and that's a valid point of view. I disagree in this case, but I respect the point of view. Too, Lerner may want to give the coach he hired last January another year to sort things out, or to see if he can sort things out. Mangini has worked extremely hard, and he cares. And some of the principles he's enacted are the right ones. He may string some wins together here at the end of the year. But let the new leader of football make the decision.

9)      For those who say changing the coach is starting over one more time and that’s no good, I'd have to say this: I agree. But I also ask: Where does a team go when it's 2-11? It has to start from the bottom whether it's a new coach, old coach or Foghorn Leghorn as coach. All we've heard to this point is about the process and the shared vision and all that claptrap garbage we've heard for 11 years. And all we're going to hear is the late-season effort means so much. I'd love to be wrong about this, you know. Maybe Mangini stays and wins eight games next season and I have to eat the bottom of my old Chuck Taylors. Could happen, though I don't see it. But if Holmgren is making the call I believe the Browns will be well served.

10)      People always ask about Lerner and what he's like. I say I like him, he's a good guy, I don't always agree with him but I respect him. Ask around the league and you'll learn that he's a very liked guy. I know of one guy last year who decried not coming to Cleveland precisely because he respected Lerner so much. The relevance? This could help the Browns in this cause. Because when they talk to him, people like the owner and want to work for him.

And, because it's the Browns … a bonus 11 …

11)       It sure seems like Josh Cribbs has earned that new contract.

Three and Out

Dear Pat,

I decided to chime in on whether Eric Mangini deserves another year – it is my humble opinion that any coach who beats the Steelers in his first year deserves Year 2.  Complain about the practices, complain about the Berea murals, complain about the mishandling of Kokinis, and complain about the player moves all you want, but just remember – Cleveland beat Pittsburgh.  It’s like OSU beating Michigan.  We should be dancing in the streets!

Mangini has a .500 record against Pittsburgh.  Rome Crennel can’t say that.  Terry Robiskie can’t say that.  Butch Davis can’t say that.  Chris Palmer can’t say that.  Eric Mangini can.  Enough said.  Give Mangini and the crew another year. 

 James P. Hogan

Indianapolis, Ind.

Dear James,

I like you, I appreciate your constantly writing and reading …

But it's beyond me how anyone who watches Peyton Manning and the Colts year after year can justify one more year based on one stinking game that wasn't even that well played.

Have you forgot …

Minnesota 34, Cleveland 20

Denver 27, Cleveland 6

Baltimore 34, Cleveland 3

Pittsburgh 27, Cleveland 14

Green Bay 31, Cleveland 3

Chicago 30, Cleveland 6 (Chicago!)

Detroit 38, Cleveland 37 (Detroit!)

Baltimore 16, Cleveland 0

But that's what great about America.

We have the right to be wrong. Me included.

By the way … Chris Palmer can say he was .500 against Pittsburgh. Beat them in Pittsburgh in 1999 and beat them in Cleveland in 2000.

Pat

Dear Pat,

It seems that the last month the Browns have been playing better due to effort alone!  My question is why?  My friends and my uninformed theory (developed in conjunction with Miller Lite) is that Eric Mangini has eased up and started treating them as men and not kindergarteners.

Your thoughts?

Saurabh Gupta

Dear Saurabh,

My first thought is that Labatt Blue is made from all natural ingredients and tastes much better. In my house we have two kinds of beer: Labatt Blue, and Labatt Blue (and only because true Guinness is not available).

My second thought is I don't know the reason for the change, other than guys trying and Pittsburgh playing bad football and San Diego cashing it in the fourth quarter.

I've said this before and I'll say it again: NFL players rarely cash it in. They almost always play hard, for themselves and for each other.

The one thing I'll never understand is how the defense has improved the more players have gotten hurt. Odd.

Dear Pat,

How is it that the bars in Ireland have a tap system that allows Guinness to pour correctly, but in the States I have been to exactly ONE bar, ever (downtown in Manhattan), that could manage this feat properly?  Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.  Might it be the hard-wired patience of the native Irish Bartender?  Is this a skill one can ever hope to replicate?  In one's lifetime? 

Bob Kusyk

Charlottesville, Va. (a great home, but without a bar that pours a proper Guinness)

Dear Bob,

Yes, you wrote a lengthy letter, touching on many Browns topics. But to be honest, none seemed as pertinent or important as the first question you raised.

I have actually found a bar in Cleveland, called Stone Mad I believe, on West 65th north of Detroit. It pours as fine a Guinness as you'll find.

Not like in Ireland, mind you. But tasty.

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2)      To be honest, the loss to San Diego was not that close. The Chargers led 27-7 going into the fourth quarter. They led 30-14 with 4:12 left. It's to the Browns credit that they scored nine points before the game ended, but at that point, the Chargers bigger concern was running clock and the Browns got some points on a recovered onside kick, which doesn't happen often. That was a 20-point San Diego win that was pretty well controlled by the Chargers.

3)      If the Browns want to build on something, how about building on some wins? Enough of this end-of-the-year stuff that young guys played well in a meaningless game. Build on wins. And yes, they're actually allowed to take place in September.

4)      Too, if the Browns want to prove something, Pittsburgh limps into town on Thursday. If the Browns want to show something, end that interminable losing streak against the Steelers.

5)      Even though San Diego controlled the game, the Browns never stopped competing, which is to their credit. They didn't even quit when they were down 27-7. They kept fighting, and gave themselves a glimmer of a chance. This was not enough to sway me that they played well, not the way Antonio Gates caught passes at will. But they did play hard. This really isn't unusual. In the NFL you rarely see a team mail it in. As former NFL defensive end Trace Armstrong once said to me, NFL players get 16 opportunities to do what they do. That's 16 times a year. He added that if NFL players can't get ready and play hard 16 times, they should not be in the NFL. He was right. And it shows each and every week. Teams might play bad, but they hardly ever bail on a game.

6)      Brady Quinn had good stats by game's end — 25-of-45 for 271 yards and three touchdowns. Rating: 95.1. But let's break it down. On the opening drive, Quinn went 6-for-6. He then completed 7-of-17. In the third quarter, Quinn was 0-for-3 with a sack as the Browns did not get a first down. With 13:45 left, Quentin Jammer, the Chargers top cornerback, was injured and left the game. From that point, Quinn completed 12-of-22 for 108 yards. It's to his credit he did what he did in the fourth quarter, but when the Chargers were dialed in during the third quarter — coach Norv Turner said they locked in on some things they wanted to do defensively after halftime — he was pretty ineffective.

7)      That being said, Quinn bounced back from a bad game, and at times looked more comfortable than he's looked all season. The first drive was outstanding, the throws down the field were nice to see and the way Quinn ran the no-huddle was impressive. If he can do this one or two more times, the Browns might be able to move forward without needing to draft a quarterback.

8)      Jerome Harrison came back from the moribund and played fairly well. Every time I'm ready to write him off, he comes back and does enough that you think it's not time to write him off. It seems that his role was best defined by last season's coaching staff, which used Harrison as a change of pace and on some quick outside passes. Harrison should be commended for one blitz pickup. He turned a guy upside down in an area of the game he had been struggling.

9)      Speaking of Phil Savage's draft picks, there's one guy who clearly goes under the radar who is a very good football player: fullback Lawrence Vickers. After Joe Thomas, Vickers might be Savage's best draft choice. Vickers might be a guy who could be incorporated into the offense a little more. Not 15 or 20 plays mind you, but he could catch a pass or two here or there, or run the ball. Maybe even from the tailback spot. The guy has ability.

10)  The defense somehow has skated on a lot of criticism. It's really been bad, very bad. San Diego had five plays longer than 30 yards, seven longer than 20 yards. In eight of 12 games this season, the defense has given up 27 or more points. Six teams have scored 30 or more. That's just not good.

Three and Out

Dear Pat,

I read what you wrote about Brady Quinn after the Cincinnati game. Normally I appreciate your insights but this was a terrible example of excuse-making for Quinn.  We know he has looked horrible every game outside of the weakest team in the NFL (Lions).  We know his accuracy has been poor regardless of the defense. We know in camp his accuracy issues were a problem just like last year too.

To say we need ANOTHER season to evaluate Quinn is as silly as it gets.  We already had two regimes looked at him.  The first stayed with DA, the second wanted a competition that went down to the wire. Even then out of fan, media and owner pressure it started Quinn while knowing DA was the better option.  That same pressure brought Quinn back.

Steve Hamilton

Dear Steve,

I usually like your insights too, but not this time. I don't think it's clear at all that Anderson was better than Quinn this season. In fact, Anderson looked awful and probably needs a fresh start with another team.

I'm not ready to name Quinn the team's quarterback for the next few years, but I am ready to stick with him another year — while still upgrading the position.

I have the benefit of seeing Quinn after San Diego, and you wrote before the game. But I think drafting another quarterback will lead to more prolonged development, and just set the team back (again). I don't believe Quinn is as bad as we saw earlier this season, but I also don't know how good he is.

I merely think this season has been such a mess and the coaching of him so bizarre that it's best to throw the entire experience out and let him start over next season.

From some online comments:

Dear Pat,

Are you buying the reason given by Eric Mangini for Jamal Lewis retiring? Given how Lewis has questioned Mangini it seems very strange that all of a sudden this "injury" came about.

Gaile

Dear Gaile,

I agree that it was bizarre how it came up all of a sudden, but it happens that a guy reports on Monday and complains about an injury a team did not know of the day before.

Too, I've heard a lot of information that confirms what has been reported about Lewis.

I'm not pro-Mangini, but I don't believe he'd go to the point of being untruthful about an injury to get a guy to injured reserve.

Dear Pat,

The Chargers game was a much more fun game to watch than most. If the Browns could get this much offense every week, it would be both more fun to watch them and more frustrating.

What a difference having a tight end who can catch a pass! What a difference having Brian Robiskie out there looking pretty much like the same good hands receiver he was at Ohio State. And, no, it doesn't change anything for me or I expect any fan where Mangini and his future is concerned.

Still, I would have guessed the Browns would lose scoring three points at the most and giving up anywhere from 20 to 40, depending upon how quickly the Chargers put the game away.

So, I enjoyed this game — only I don't get how they can score points one week, then nothing the next, then again look like a professional team (albeit a poor one) and score points.

It allows one to daydream, anyway, about possibly upsetting the Steelers ….

Keith Vlasak

Dear Keith,

In order:

1)      Why the Browns didn't have an offense in some games remains a pretty bizarre mystery.

2)      Brian Robiskie should have been active and playing in every game. Period. End of story.

3)      Your prediction was pretty close. The Chargers scored 30, the Browns scored seven until the final-quarter flurry when the Chargers packed it in.

4)      As for upsetting the Steelers, maybe I've been out in the cold too much, but I think it's possible. The Steelers are not playing well right now, and the Browns can point to this one game and try to make something of their season by ending Pittsburgh's playoff hopes. I honestly think it's possible. But no, it will not change my opinion of the Eric Mangini.

(Want to be recognized in “Three and Out”? It’s a rare treat. Comment here or send an e-mail to pmcmanamon@thebeaconjournal.com, and put “First and 10” in the subject line.)

2)      Brady Quinn gave little hope for the future with the way he played in Cincinnati, but I still would not give up on him. This season has been a mess from start to finish, so I think it's next to impossible to judge any player based on the way the offense has been run and the way things have gone.

3)      When I see Quinn I kind of/sort of/maybe/perhaps want to think of Vince Young, a guy many were saying was done in Tennessee after last season. He's got himself back together. Why can't Quinn, he wrote, wondering if perhaps he's next going to advocate that the flying reindeer will soon be distributing Clark bars to all autoworkers as they clock in to work.

4)      Really, the only two consistent and dependable guys on the offense week in and week out this season have been Joe Thomas and Eric Steinbach — and maybe even Alex Mack. Them we can judge. They can stay. Put down roots. Buy, not rent. The rest … who knows what to make of their performances. Things have been mishandled that badly. When this season ends, it's best to flush it as fast as possible and move to clean water. And yes, that's a nasty image.

5)      The Browns have yet to hire a general manager — how did this term "football czar" take hold? — and they might not until the season ends. It just seems that most folks who are available and willing to work in 2010 want to wait and see what else is available, and those who aren't available have to wait because they're working for another team. This tells me that Mike Holmgren might not decide if he wants to become the "czar of football" until after the season. Though it sure would be nice to think that he might become Cleveland's (dramatic music in the background as John Facenda mutters) "czar of football." I just think pursuing him makes a lot of sense.

6)      It's hard to see anyone telling a new "czar of football" that he must accept a coach not of his choosing. No self-respecting "czar of football" is going to run "football" without wanting to choose "his" coach. Bottom line: This just does not seem good for Eric Mangini's "future" with the Browns. Using quotation marks that way always makes me think of Saturday Night Live.

7)      The absence of a "czar" — again, where did this term arise? — shows in the Brian Robiskie situation. A "czar" could ask, pointedly: "What the heck? The guy is a second-round draft pick. The team is 1-10. Get the guy on the field and see what he can do." Would we rather evaluate Mike Furrey some more? Or was Jake Allen that impressive in practice last Thursday?

8)      Shaun Rogers is done for the season, which is a shame. The guy is a good player who's given his all in every game since he's been a Brown. But I wonder how much it will matter. The Browns are ranked 31st in the league in defense with Rogers, and they're giving up 159.9 yards per game rushing with him in the middle. It's not like their ranking is going to plummet without him. Though I guess it could go to 32.

9)      Rogers' penalty at end of the first half gave Cincinnati another of those infernal "untimed downs" the Browns have made famous, but at least it was a hustle play. Rogers chased Carson Palmer out of the pocket and just grabbed the wrong part of Palmer's jersey. The play did show why the horse-collar tackles has been banned. The potential for injury is high. And it was nice to hear Eric Mangini say he didn't see the play but he respected the ref's call. It was far different than the way he approached the pass interference penalty in Detroit, and a far better way to handle it. But, even though it was a hustle play, those three points sure changed the nature of the game.

10)  It's pretty goofy of Mangini not to say exactly what Rogers' injury is, but that's the coach's policy.

11)  That promise of stopping the run this season made by Rob Ryan before the season? Doesn't seem to have worked out.

12)   Noticed that Darnell Dinkins caught a touchdown pass for New Orleans Monday night. That's the ex-Browns tight end, the guy the Browns let go when they signed Robert Royal. Dinkins caught the pass, and when the game ends he's in New Orleans playing for an undefeated team and eating beignets and drinking café au lait. It'd be interesting to know if he's happy about the change of scenery.

Three and Out

Hey Pat,

What's the real reason behind the unrelenting support of Brady Quinn?  Did you dole out big bucks for official Brady Quinn jerseys for your daughters?

Brian D.

Twinsburg

Dear Brian,

Well, he did hold the door for me once at Panera.

Good afternoon Pat,

It’s hard to disagree with your assessment about Brady Quinn’s incomplete.  But there is something I’ve seen the last two weeks that bothers me, to the point I wonder if he’ll ever pan out.  On about 75 percent of his passes, he looks completely out of sync,  like a power pitcher trying to throw to first base after fielding a slow roller in front of the mound.  His motion is not right.  How many times is he going to fire the ball into the ground at the receiver’s feet? There is no rhythm to his delivery.  His wrist is tight, not loose.  On a couple throws he looked like he was trying to throw a sinker, his wrist snapped so hard downward at the release. And that’s where the ball went – straight down.

Browns played Bengals close both games – and that’s the  team that dominated the Central Division this year.  The glory of the ‘Tradition’ of the Cleveland Browns has just expanded.  It now includes the opponent scoring on extra plays awarded at the end of halves/games by penalties on the defense.  Rogers’ play cost us three points.  At the end of the game, that could have made a difference.  In any event, we played them pretty tough this year. Silver lining?

How bad is a franchise when, over a 10 year period, its best players, year in, year out, are the punter and place kicker. Phil Dawson has to be the unluckiest player in the NFL.  I think he might be  the best place kicker the team has ever had.  We just don’t realize it because he hasn’t been there to win big games for us.  He’s such a classy guy.  Think what a huge star he would be had he played for Indianapolis or New England the last 10 years.

And our punters have been very good as well.  Dave Zastudil is as good as we’ve ever had.

So when you assess the cloud hanging over the Browns, ask yourself how many teams in the history of the NFL have lost both their place kicker AND punter simultaneously for an extended period of time.

George Rosin

Akron

Good day George,

Always good to hear from an old friend, and as always you raise good points. As for the silver lining, has it really reached the point where it's a silver lining to play the Bengals close? Is that what we've come to? And … how can there be any silver lining given your extremely accurate statements about the kickers.

From the online comments …

Eric Mangini is the Lord of his kingdom and no player should ever, ever question him over his rule.

Just look at his history. Because of his Lordship's rule, he has stabbed veteran players in the back, fired his own best friend General Manager, accused another former buddy coach of stalling time with fake injuries, and accused his former "mentor" (Belichick) of cheating by stealing signals.

He has overlooked veteran players at charity events (Rogers) and has had the most grievances filed against him in one season in the NFL.

If a player makes a statement to the press, that player's time is cut for the next game. Rookie players cannot get onto the field to play because they have not "shown enough" yet??? So he picks up free agents off the waiver wire and plays them instead???

He fines players with excessive fines and even refuses to allow them to play in a game until they learn "his way or the highway."

What happened to the days of a coach being a mentor, teacher and instructor instead of a ruler???

Not much else I can add here, other than I sure would hate to be his friend. I wonder how many Browns players feel that way right now???

Strange behavior leads to strange happenings.

Alex K

Dear Alex,

Fairness forces me to admit that Mangini does have his defenders online as well. Not many, but there are a couple holdouts. Just like there are a couple folks who still insist Oswald acted alone in the library with a paring knife.

I just wonder why you use three question marks at the same time.

(Want to be recognized in “Three and Out”? It’s a rare treat. Comment here or send an e-mail to pmcmanamon@thebeaconjournal.com, and put “First and 10” in the subject line.)

2)      Look at Phidelphia on Sunday night. Up four against Chicago, the Bears take over at their 21 with 1:51 left. It was a situation very comparable to the Lions, except Detroit had farther to go and less time. Philadelphia allowed Chicago to gain 16 yards, then intercepted a Jay Cutler pass. They did something to actually win the game. That's what winning teams do.

3)      The Browns? They lose a game when the other team has to go 88 yards with a rookie quarterback and no timeouts. Eighty-eight yards. That's the bottom line. The Browns had 88 yards to stop the Lions, and Detroit had no timeouts. The Browns didn’t. They lost. They deserved to lose.

4)      I'm not going to blame Eric Mangini for calling that pass just after the two-minute warning because he tried to win the game right then and there. That's a good attitude. Too, his players didn’t exactly back him up. It was also good to see Mangini go for it on a fourth down in the first half, and good to see him try a fake field goal. But … there was a practical cost for not running the ball on third-and-5. Because he threw the clock stopped with 1:57 left. Let's suppose the Browns run. The play ends with 1:52 to go … the Browns run as much of the 45-second clock as they can and then punt … the punt takes 11 seconds. That means Detroit gets the ball back at about the 15-yard-line with 55-58 seconds left. With no timeouts. That pass gave Detroit an extra minute. The pass was a risk that didn't work, like just about everything else this season.

5)      I did not agree with the timeout as Detroit lined up for its extra ""untimed down." Daunte Culpepper was cold off the bench and the entire scene in Ford Field — the finest facility in the NFL — was chaotic. The Lions looked every bit as organized as the Browns, which is to say not very. Calling timeout allowed things to settle down, and allowed Matt Stafford back in the game (legally). I just don't like a coach on the sideline exercising that much control, especially one like Mangini who emphasizes preparation so much. If his team is prepared for the situation, it can defend the play — especially with the backup in the game.

6)      I also don't buy that the pass interference penalty on Hank Poteat was controversial. The guy had his back to the play, and he hit a receiver out of bounds while the ball was in the air. Poteat's play impeded the receiver and kept him from going for the ball. Next time a Browns receiver is blocked out of bounds while a ball is in the air, a flag should be thrown. It's a penalty Sunday, it's a penalty Monday, it's a penalty every day. The problem is that the impression was given that the penalty was on the guys jostling with Calvin Johnson. It wasn't. It was on Poteat for knocking Bryant Johnson out of the back of the end zone with the ball in the air. That's a penalty.

7)      Brady Quinn finally played a game like everyone expected of him this season. The difference? Well the Browns were playing the Lions. But at this point of this season you take this opponent and this game. Because the Lions, last I checked, are still in the NFL, and a 300-yard, four-touchdown game is big-time. The other difference? The Browns appeared to give Quinn a more complete game plan, and a more complete chance to succeed. Against Baltimore, it almost appeared that the coaching staff decided they could not succeed so they gave Quinn no chance to do so. Against Detroit, they gave him plays down the field and gave him a chance to make things work.

8)      This doesn't guarantee that Quinn is back in the team's long-term plans. But it sure puts him back in the thinking — provided he follows with some more success. Quinn was the team's most baffling player this season, because I never thought he was as bad as he looked. If he can get himself back on some solid ground, perhaps the Browns can go into 2010 with him as their quarterback.

9)      This streak Mangini has going is pretty amazing. Nothing he tries works. He calls timeout, Detroit scores. He signs Hank Poteat, he gets torched in an early game then interferes in the end zone. He decides to go against his natural inclination and be aggressive with a pass, it's incomplete and Detroit gets an extra minute. He tells Quinn to take the sack if he's pressured or the pass is not there to keep the clock running, Quinn throws incomplete. He can't score, then gets a 24-3 lead and see a defense blow a game. He calls a smart fake field goal thinking it'll be a touchdown, but a Lions player recognizes it at the last second and makes the tackle. It's amazing, really. Nothing that Mangini tries is working. Nothing. At this point he best not make any frozen orange juice on his own because it'll turn out to be rancid.

10)   Pixar should do a movie on the Browns. They're ""The Incredibles" of the NFL with the way they lose games. Has any other team in the history of any professional sport ever lost two games on untimed downs when the other team scored with zeroes on the clock? The Browns did it with Dwayne Rudd's helmet, and with now with Matt Stafford's miracle. After leading 24-3, they lost a game when they let a rookie throw five TD passes in an NFL game for the first time since 1937. And they lost with zeroes on the clock. On an untimed down. Bet none of us had ever heard of an untimed down until we all started following this team.

Three and Out

Dear Pat,

This is the from the NFL rulebook:

Timing in Final Two Minutes of Each Half

1.   On kickoff, clock does not start until the ball has been legally touched by player of either team in the field of play. (In all other cases, clock starts with kickoff.)

2.   A team cannot buy an excess time out for a penalty. However, a fourth time out is allowed without penalty for an injured player, who must be removed immediately. A fifth time out or more is allowed for an injury and a five-yard penalty is assessed if the clock was running. Additionally, if the clock was running and the score is tied or the team in possession is losing, the ball cannot be put in play for at least 10 seconds on the fourth or more time out. The half or game can end while those 10 seconds are run off on the clock.

3.   If the defensive team is behind in the score and commits a foul when it has no time outs left in the final 40 seconds of either half, the offensive team can decline the penalty for the foul and have the time on the clock expire.

4.   Fouls that occur in the last five minutes of the fourth quarter as well as the last two minutes of the first half will result in the clock starting on the snap.

 I understand Detroit would be allowed an untimed down as a result of the pass interference. However, with the trainers on the field and the referees announcing Detroit was charged with a timeout, what is the recourse for the Browns?

Should Detroit have been assessed a delay of game penalty, which would have moved the ball to the six?

It seems in this situation Detroit is allowed a fourth timeout without penalty.

Why also was Detroit’s tight end coach allowed on field after the touchdown? Should that not have been a 15 yard penalty?

All in all, a very poorly officiated game, not the reason we lost … but didn’t help.

Michael Donahue

Dear Michael,

I'm sorry to tell you this, but I'm told the officials handled everything properly. Note that in No. 2 above, the rule states a team is allowed a fourth timeout for an injured player "without penalty." Thus, no penalty.

Too, a game cannot end on a defensive penalty. The officials were required to give Detroit one more play.

As for the coach on the field, they missed that. Plain and simple. It should have been 15 yards. But … I honestly don't think it would have mattered.

The Browns had many chances to win the game.

They lost.

Officials did not cost the Browns this game. The Browns did.

Pat 

Dear Pat,

Really?  You think Hank Poteat clearly interfered with the Lions receiver?

In my opinion, there was no way said receiver had a chance at the ball, and another Lions receiver knocked two Browns defenders out when the pass was in the air.

The proper decision would absolutely be NO FLAG.

On the last play of the game, on a scrambling Hail Mary, you have to let them play unless the infraction directly effects the outcome.

Any other team in the league would have gotten away with that one.

Tom Crookston

Dear Tom,

I respectfully disagree. The guy Poteat interfered with could not get in the play because of Poteat. That's interference.

Note that the refs allowed the guys going for the ball to do just that, go for the ball.

The call was made because Poteat — by his own admission — knocked a guy out of bounds when the ball was in the air.

Sorry, but that's interference.

I actually credit the officials on this play. They let the guys fighting for the ball fight for the ball (Brodney Pool did intercept), but two guys saw Poteat's infraction and they had to call it.

Hi Pat,

What an unbelievable loss but at least it was entertaining! I find it interesting that none of the beat writers have so far printed Quinn's QB rating. When he and Anderson stink it is a staple of every game article written. Statistics about how historically bad they are, how they rank against others, etc. Finally he had a good performance and no mention. Not one so far. I don't get it?

Kyle St. Peter

St. Louis, Mo.

Dear Kyle,

All I can say is a writer only has so much space in the paper, and when a game ends like Sunday's did the emphasis is on the final plays. Not an excuse, but an explanation.

For the record, it was an entertaining game, and Quinn's play was impressive and encouraging.

His rating: 133.1

Hoo hoo!

Dear Pat,

The Browns have become like some strange, macabre fascination. Like watching an automobile accident. You can't avert your eyes. My only worry is that it will progress to the next level, which would be reveling in it and celebrating it, like a 1960s Mets fan.

Tim Abraham

Canfield, Ohio

Dear Tim,

Hope all is well in Canfield.

You are right about the Browns. And it's weird, even when they were up 24-3 there was this feeling that the game wasn't over. Even when Detroit took over at the 12 with no timeouts, there was this feeling that something could still happen.

It did.

(Want to be recognized in “Three and Out”? It’s a rare treat. Comment here or send an e-mail to pmcmanamon@thebeaconjournal.com, and put “First and 10” in the subject line.)

2)      Imagine that. The Browns a more-than-deserving near-double digit underdog to a team that has one win since the start of the 2009 season. Say this for the Browns: They've earned it.

3)      For the second game in a row, the Browns opponent played down to the Browns level, yet won fairly easily. Baltimore played about as well as Chicago played against the Browns, which is to say pretty poorly. One mistake by a cornerback, one mistake by a quarterback — game over. With never a threat that the Browns would come back on their own to win. Expectations have been driven so subterranean that it's worthy of celebrating when the Browns hold a team to a scoreless half.

4)      Nothing Eric Mangini tries is working. Nothing. His quarterback competition. Working players harder. Bringing in his players. Forcing Cribbs into the wide receiver spot. Brian Daboll as offensive coordinator. George Kokinis. Calling timeout against Cincinnati, which only served to set up the Bengals touchdown that sent the game into overtime. Not calling timeout against Baltimore as his guys were trotting on the field when the Ravens lined up at the 13. Going no-huddle against Baltimore. None of it has worked. None of it. And were it not for a botched punt return by Buffalo, we surely would be looking at an oh-and-nine team right now. This is not bad luck, though. It's bad coaching. Bad coaching, bad decisions, bad everything.

5)      Calling that hook-and-lateral with three seconds left and the Browns down 16 was inane. What was the point? The game was over. O-v-e-r. Running that play only served to injure one of the Browns best players. Yes, injuries are sometimes bad luck. But in this case the Browns made their own bad luck with an ill-advised play call at a point of the game when that call was not necessary.

6)      It was almost as ludicrous as having Brady Quinn throw two bombs the previous two plays. Were those going to somehow tie the game? Even if they were .. . well … actually thrown inbounds.

7)      When we assess the Browns offense Monday night, let's not forget the Browns were coming off a bye. Which means they had two weeks to prepare for Baltimore. Two weeks and they come up with that performance. The NFL is a passing league, and most teams move the ball by opening up the field and running receivers in different patterns all over the field. Except … the … Browns. It seems obvious now that the Browns have two different game plans for Derek Anderson and Quinn, and that the coaching staff does not trust Quinn to throw down the field, except in the rarest of instances or when they are down 16 and less than 20 seconds are left.

8)      Eric Mangini said after the game that the Browns are trying to throw the ball downfield with Quinn. "We're not avoiding that part of the field," he said. Well it sure looks like they are. Just about every play Quinn ran was a quick rollout and quick throw. Usually for four-to-six yards. It looked like a JV offense for the high school team.

9)      People say that we now know about Brady Quinn, that he's not an NFL quarterback. I'm not buying that. I don't think we know anything more about either quarterback because it's next to impossible to judge them based on the offense being run and the plays being called. I would not shrink from bringing in a new quarterback next season, but I also would not give up on Quinn because of this season.

10)  I don't understand why Mangini didn't call for a timeout when he didn't have the players on the field with Baltimore at the 13-yard-line. The last Brown was trotting on the field as the ball was snapped. Mangini called that timeout earlier in the season against Cincinnati in a similar circumstance and he didn't need to. This time he needed to and he didn’t call timeout. Nothing is working. Too, how can it be that at this point of the season the Browns can't even get the right guys on the field for a critical play. Ten men with the other team lining up at the 13? This is the attention to detail that is stressed so much by this regime? What a joke.

Three and Out

Dear Pat,

 I don't always agree with you, but I certainly do with your latest article. It's blown my mind that this is the third season that Brady Quinn has been a member of the team and we still don't know if he's an NFL quarterback. One of the best ways to help Quinn's confidence is to run the football and limit how many times he has to throw it.  This is what Marty Schottenheimer did when they were breaking Bernie Kosar in 24 years ago.

It would be nice to see some close, competitive games in the second half of the season, huh?

Steve Bohnenkamp

Geneva IL

Dear Steve,

The Browns ran fairly well Monday night, but they had their backs run 24 times (including one WR reverse) and had Quinn throw 31 passes. This seems like forcing the pass to maintain balance, especially considering the passes the Browns threw.

As for competitive games … we've reached the point where we hope to compete against Detroit … Kansas City … Oakland.

Uncle.

Dear Pat,

Eric Mangini was such a terrible hire from the very start. My most pressing concern as a Browns fan is to see him gone. At the same time, I have this sinking feeling that the search for a new Chief Football Officer is going to be similarly botched—too rushed, too shortsighted, too fixated on a name. 

 Now, I don’t know if the Mike Holmgren rumor is for real or just one of those half-baked ESPN reports. But look at his resume in Seattle: In 10 seasons as coach he was 12 games over .500 (in a consistently pathetic division), he posted a 4-6 playoff record, and after four years on the job he was stripped of his GM duties (with a 31-33 record)—duties which he was denied in Green Bay.

 So is Mike Holmgren any good at having final approval on players or constructing and leading an organization? Isn’t that the job? I’m not saying he wouldn’t be an upgrade over the current regime. I mean, the bar’s been set right at about ankle level. But even a future Hall of Famer can be unqualified, and at this point I’ve seen enough unqualified people come through town.

Michael Stevens

Boca Raton, FL

Dear Michael,

Valid points on Holmgren. Let me address some of them:

1)      The Browns want him to be a candidate. Whether he becomes one is up to him.

2)      Holmgren had the record you mentioned in Seattle, but he also took two different teams to the Super Bowl. That says something too.

3)      He lost the GM job, but that's because he was doing two jobs. I think he's smart enough and knows football well enough that he could be a strong and positive guiding hand while doing one job.

4)      Would Holmgren look more attractive if he brought Jon Gruden with him as coach?

5)      Which of these names has the most rings: Holmgren, Bill Cowher, Brian Billick, Jon Gruden. Answer: All the above. They all have one.

6)      I think you'll see a different type search this time than the one Randy Lerner conducted in January. I think he'll involve more people, ask more opinions and get more feedback. This is good.

If the Browns can hire Mike Holmgren, I'm all for it.

Dear Pat,

I know a lot of fans were hoping the Ravens would embarrass the Browns to hasten the departure of Mangini and to secure the overall No. 1 pick.  And I kind of felt that way following the Bears game, amidst the intrigue of the Kokinis firing/resignation.  But by the middle of last week I was actually looking forward to Monday night, dreaming that the bye would be a reset, the staff would finally get it together, and that in his return Brady would become the Mighty Quinn and begin a Browns career that would place him up there with other Browns championship QBs, like Otto Graham, and Frank Ryan, and……umm….well, you get my drift.  And yea, the first half was OK because it was a draw and anything was still possible.  Then came the third quarter.

 And while it may be simplistic and unfair to distill this disastrous season down to one play, for me it all came down to one critical moment in this coaching regime's tenure.  Score 0-0, just gave up a big play to the Ravens, but an opportunity remains to take back the momentum with a stop, where even a Ravens' field goal would be a positive for the Browns.  And in the ninth game of the season, after two weeks to prepare, THEY CAN'T EVEN GET 11 MEN ON THE FIELD.  Honestly, how is that possible?  That, of course, led to Ray Rice's TD and that opened the door to yet another national embarrassment.

So while there is a lack of talent on the Browns, and competing with such a deficit is extremely difficult, it is now clear to me that this is really a secondary problem.  The first problem, and one that will ensure failure regardless of the talent level, are the people coaching and preparing the team.  Lerner must jettison Mangini now because he has no future with the team.  Keeping him for the remainder of the season will only serve to scare off talented candidates for GM who don't want to worry about being stuck with an awful coach or don't want the hassle of having to fire him.  Really, this is the only option that remains.

Dan Hough

Dear Dan,

I really can't disagree with much of what you say … but comparing Brady Quinn to Otto Graham? Wow.

That’s even worse than this colossal failure of a season.

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1)      Run the ball. The one thing the offense did kind of, sort of well the first half was run the ball. Jerome Harrison and Jamal Lewis each had 100-yard games. There have been some good runs. This could be one element the offense could build from, assuming they don't try to force the issue by mixing in too many passes. We all saw how THAT worked.

2)      Run two or three or four basic defenses and run them well. The Browns lack too much talent on defense to run a free-wheeling, blitzing style. If it means going to Cover Two and playing that every play, so be it. It can't be worse than what happened the first eight games.

3)      Remove the play-calling responsibilities from Brian Daboll and give them to Carl Smith. Daboll has looked overmatched. Yes, Bernie Kosar keeps saying on his many radio shows that Browns receivers are running wide open and simply not catching the ball, so the problem isn't merely the plays. OK, let's give Kosar that one. The problem is the knee-jerk reaction, the amateurish thought process. It's the focus on one thing that doesn't last — like opening with the quick passes against Baltimore, then giving up on it once Brady Quinn threw an interception, or opening with the Wildcat in Pittsburgh, then giving up on it once Josh Cribbs threw a pick. Formulate a plan on Tuesday, stress it during the week and stick with it on Sunday. Smith is a veteran coach who has been around. He knows what he's doing. Let him call plays and see what happens. It can't be worse.

4)      Play Quinn. Find out what the Browns have in him. It seems that we know about Derek Anderson. Or at least what we know from the previous few games is decidedly not pretty.

5)      Call some plays down the field for Quinn. He has to be able to throw the ball 15 yards. That being said, one concern expressed to me about Quinn is that he has developed the very bad habit of focusing on the rush as soon as he sees it. This takes his eyes from his receivers and puts them on the rusher, which is a key reason he throws so many dumpoffs. This is a hard habit to break, and why it happens is kind of inexplainable. It's comparable to a golfer getting the yips. So … who knows … perhaps we may see more of Anderson.

6)      Quit micromanaging. Coach the team, forget the insanity like making every non-playing and non-coaching member of the travel group get on the bus to the airport 45 minutes early so they don't cross paths with the players. Let everyone board the bus together. Forget the nitpicking like water bottles and that kind of thing. Coach the team, concentrate on winning the game. Just. Go. Win. The. Game.

7)      Make whoever decided that these receivers could play in the NFL coach these receivers personally. Because to me they look overmatched by average NFL corners. They don't get off the line, don't get open and when they do they don't catch the ball or fumble it away. (Other than that … ) No NFL team should have receivers who play the way these do. Then enact a corollary to this rule and enforce it: Announce a starting quarterback and quit playing games with the announcement.

8)      Eliminate the stinking players valet parking lot. It's a perk that this team bestowed on players well before it was earned. Now it's an offensive reminder of the way these guys are treated. Park in a lot where they can shake hands with fans and greet people and maybe sign an autograph or two after the game. Walk 20 feet in the rain, or wind, or snow, if need be. Fans do it. Players can do it.

9)      Abandon the blitz, drop deep and make teams use 15 plays to score. If they score, they score. But there have been too many big plays. Play the ultimate umbrella defense. Make the other team earn it. If they score, then so be it — but chances increase that on one of those 15 plays the other team might make a mistake.

10)   Start devoting many resources to next year's draft. At this point, that's the most important thing in the world to this team. However many people are studying college guys, add another one or two to the list.

And … because it's the Browns … a bonus 11 …

11)  Here's a unique idea: Pretend the Browns are an actual NFL team with actual professionals on the roster. Treat them that way, and maybe, just maybe, they will play that way.

This will be no quick turnaround; in fact there might not be any turnaround. But some fundamental notions could make the second half of the season a tiny bit more palatable than the first. And isn't that what everyone wants?

Three and Out will take a break this week due to the flu's invading my being. Besides, we all know the nature of the letters.

2)      Then coach Eric Mangini stands up in his news conference and says he won't talk about what happened with Kokinis other than to say "it didn't work out." So the one voice that the team has isn't taking questions about it. Next thing you know the Browns will wonder why there's so much speculation and rumor about what happened. Not addressing the situation smacks of cowardice. Leadership means standing up when things are tough (see Mark Shapiro discussing and addressing the firing of Eric Wedge). In this case, Mangini and the Browns sat down. The really frightening thing: Mangini kept saying "we" when talking about the organization and the team's future, as if to imply he would be part of it long-term. Guess we now know the subject of the next paranormal activity movie.

3)      I don't know what happened that caused this to happen with Kokinis so suddenly. Randy Lerner obviously felt strong enough about something to act. I have heard that Kokinis worked in Cleveland the same way he did in Baltimore. He kept coaches hours, which means arrive early and stay late and sometimes sleep in the office. He had his scouts doing the same thing, and that didn't sit real well with all of them. He also worked quietly, behind the scenes. Kokinis was not a real public guy, though he's always been a good guy in my private dealings with him.

4)      The way this went down, though, clearly makes it seem like Kokinis is taking the fall for a bad start. Mangini somehow continues in his job, yet the GM is fired? After the majority of players brought in were ex-Jets? After the quarterback situation was completely mishandled on the field? After all the garbage we've seen on the playing field? True or not, this clearly makes it look like Mangini sacrificed his friend to save his job. And the Browns statement and Mangini's nonexplanation do nothing to rectify that impression. As for Mangini calling Kokinis a friend … I can hardly wait to see what gifts they exchange this Christmas.

5)      The flip side is that if Kokinis was simply not up to the job and the pressures of the job and losing got to him — a possibility — then Mangini was wrong to suggest him as GM and the Browns made a mistake picking him. Either way, Mangini does not come out of this well. Nor should he. He's overseeing a season of disastrous proportions.

6)      Let's not forget, too, Mangini's history in New England. He wanted a head coaching job, and Bill Belichick asked him not to take one job — with the Jets. Belichick's thinking: The rivalry and feelings between the two teams were too intense for the friendship to continue. Any other team … Belichick said, he'd do anything he could to help him. Mangini took the Jets job anyway, and he knew he was getting it as the Patriots flew back from a playoff loss in Denver. So on the team plane, Mangini was recruiting coaches from Belichick's staff to join him in New York. When Belichick heard this, he was irate, and the next day locked Mangini out of the building. Once Mangini got to New York, Spygate followed. Now we have Kokinis recommended by Mangini, hired, and fired. Err … no longer actively involved.

7)      One thing can't be debated: Kokinis waited to take the job with the Browns last January because he wanted it in his contract that he had final say over personnel. He got that. It seems quite obvious that once he got in the building, Mangini had final say over everything — including how Kokinis should act (he was not the same person he was in Baltimore), who parks where and the fact that the first floor should have plaster board covering up the cinder block. Not to mention moving the mural of the hall of famers that has never been placed in the lobby like the team said it would (though there are nice plaques with the names of the hall of famers).

8)      Walking out of Solider Field on Sunday, I heard another writer from the Chicago area describe the game this way while talking on his cell phone: "Wasn't much of a game. The Bears played really bad, and the Browns are just horrible." Sums it up, doesn't it? The Bears had a day they'd like to forget, a day when they openly admitted they played down to the Browns level — and they won BY 24 POINTS.

9)      What did Jamal Lewis mean when he said he "stuck his neck out" for the Browns? Two things: First is he is playing on a very painful ankle, one that required an offseason procedure and would sideline a lot of others players. Second is he stood up for the new regime, and did what he could to get everyone on the team to "buy in." Now he sees what's happening, and he's rightly disgusted.

10)   There's no sense hiding from another reality: The majority of the players cannot stand playing for Mangini. Yes, there is a small group that believes in him, and most are the guys he brought in from New York. But others simply don't like him. Because he belittles them in meetings, beats them down mentally and has no clear plan to win a game. Anyone who believes that this team believes in this coach is not looking at the reality on the field. Too, the players look at how he says everyone should be treated the same and they see that Mangini treats employees in the building shabbily and they think "hypocrite." As one league insider very knowledgeable in the workings of this and any team said: "That situation there will get 100 times worse before it even starts to get better."

Three and Out

There were so many letters the past eight days, so many from which to choose. I'm sticking with four as a representative sample.

Dear Pat,

Webster's defines death as "a state of being." That's a pretty good definition of the Cleveland Browns. Eric Mangini claims it's a process and he is right; it has been a slow death over the last 39 years.

Ineptitude can creep in and destroy a beloved franchise. Greedy owners, mismanagement, a revolving door of incompetent general managers, coaches, support staff  and quarterbacks can over time lead to the fall of a once storied championship team.

This has all created a dysfunctional organization that is an embarrassment to itself, its loyal fans and the city it represents. To paraphrase Einstein: "The problems that face us today as the Cleveland Browns cannot be solved by the level of thinking that has created it."

Be respectful of the "dead." Don't try and leave it on life support with a parade of old legends like Jim Brown or Bernie Kosar. It's too late simply cremate it and spread the ashes over Los Angeles, and like Braylon Edwards give it a new start.

We the Baby Boomers are tired of grieving year in and year out over this ailing parent. Let it go! It's over already

Craig Bassett

Ft Mill SC

Dear Craig,

I think many share your pain.

Dear Pat,

Is Randy Lerner clueless.  He fires a guy who did nothing. I have not seen a quote or anything else from George Kokinis since he was hired. That's like blaming the cook for the Titanic sinking.

Have a great day!

Ed Miller

New Waterford, OH

Dear Ed,

Every day is a great day when you're involved with the Cleveland Browns.

Dear Pat,

Thanks for starting the firing process of Eric Mangini. Please add Brian Daboll, the clown who is our offensive coordinator, to the list of people to be fired immediately.

I hope you can convince Randy Lerner why Mangini has to go. The players have lost all confidence in him. He is simply going to make it even worse by hanging around.

Thanks for all your help.

Best Regards

Tom Joseph

Season Ticket holder since 1979

Dear Tom,

I take no pride in "starting" a process that leads to someone losing his job. I simply have the opinion that you are right: This is going to get worse before it gets better, and I don't see it getting better with Mangini guiding the ship.

Dear Pat,

I’ve been a Browns fan all my life.  I was eight when they won it all in 1964.  I’ve seen a lot, heard a lot, etc.  I’ve lived in four different states, currently in the Chicago area.  I’m around plenty of Bears fans all the time.

Today, the day after the Bears-Browns game, I’m getting pity.  Even the most ardent Bears fans realize Sunday’s game was poorly played from the Bears standpoint, yet they had no trouble winning.

Here is the most common thing I’ve heard today – I feel sorry for the city of Cleveland that the Browns are so bad.  They say the Browns are the worst team they’ve played in they can’t remember when.  This is coming from fans whose team plays the Lions twice a year!  How sad that is.

I didn’t see the game live.  I taped it but I won’t watch it.  I was traveling back from Ohio to Chicago yesterday afternoon so I listened to the game on the Bears radio network.  More than once the Bears announcers (Jeff Joniak and Tom Thayer) asked the question – what has Brady Quinn done that he can’t even get on the field?  This was before the one series mop up at the end of the game.

To me the Browns are at the lowest point in their history.  There is no reason to be optimistic about the future.  What building blocks do they even have in place?  What free agent player other than one that no other team wants would play for this team or this coaching staff?  There are holes everywhere.  We are watching the destruction of a franchise that will take years to rebuild if it can be rebuilt.

Delusional Browns fans can quit dreaming about Bill Cowher or any other big name coach coming in to save them.  Not going to happen.

I’m still a fan but I’m becoming a very apathetic one.

Tom Shenberger

Crystal Lake,  Illinois

Dear Tom,

You sound much more than apathetic. But you also sound correct. Very, very correct.

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1)      There were many reactions to my idea that it's time for the Browns to admit they made a mistake with Eric Mangini, that it's best to move on. Almost 90 percent of the e-mails and calls were positive. Folks said they agreed a change is needed. Some said thanks, others said well spoken, others criticized the owner for hiring Mangini, and some said my brains have less consistency than Jello. All is fine. As Mike Brown once said, I agree with what I said. But … just because I said … errr … wrote it doesn't mean Randy Lerner will do it. In fact, he's probably not going to do it. Which is fine. It is his team after all.

2)      That being said, the Browns have to be aware of the damage being done to their following. I've never seen a Browns crowd so apathetic as it was against Green Bay. The opposing quarterback said it was eerily quiet in the Browns stadium. People are acting like they've been hit too many times. Friends I know who have tickets can't give them away. The people I hear from are angry, which on one level makes sense because you usually hear from the angry people. But the fan base is sickened by what they see. The team's revenues could nosedive this offseason if the fans think 2010 will be more of the same. Yes, there are 11 draft picks. But if the Browns are hanging their hats on those draft picks they are fooling themselves. This regime traded three top six picks (Braylon Edwards, Kellen Winslow, the fifth overall choice) and the only first-round pick they got in return was center Alex Mack. So they got a center, second- and third-round choices, a bunch of mid-round picks and a bunch of ex-Jets. 

3)      Some criticized me for criticizing the Browns for lack of continuity, then asking for another change. Fair enough. I just think keeping on with a mistake makes the mistake worse. If you paint your living room and realize one-third of the way through that the color is ugly, do you keep painting? Didn’t think so. The Indians made quick moves with coaches in the past when it was obvious their hiring wasn't working (Eddie Murray, a pitching coach whose name I forget). It's time to bite the bullet and accept reality. It's not working. Chart a new course in 2010, and hope that the next hire (or hires) has (have) more success. Too… if a change is made, I'd advocate hiring a football guy to run football. Then said football guy can hire the coach.

4)      It's been opined that the Browns have no talent. I don't disagree. There is a serious lack of talent. But I said that last year, and many yelled at me and cried for Romeo Crennel to be fired. Much of the same talent is back, and Mangini supplemented it with 23 players he chose (as of opening day). Ten of them are ex-Jets he wanted and went and got — either via trade or free agency. So if Mangini was right on the new guys, the team should be better. Because he brought in players he wanted to a team that got screwed up last season by the coach. Doesn't seem like you can have it both ways — cry about the coach last season, then lament the talent this season.

5)      The Browns rank dead last in the league in defense, and they are giving up 170 yards rushing per game. Why, then, did I opine that Rob Ryan would be the choice for interim coach? Basically because he's the best option. The only thing that I think will get the Browns going this season is a different voice, a guy who approaches things far differently from Mangini. That would be Ryan, a coordinator with personality who's not afraid to take people on. I'd make the move, tell Ryan to try to make a name for himself and see what happens. Like I said, it can't be worse.

6)      Seems to me that the Browns keep forcing the issue with Josh Cribbs on offense. They've tried him at receiver, they've tried him at quarterback. Thus far, he's had a critical fumble against Minnesota, a big dropped pass against Buffalo, an interception against Pittsburgh and another fumble against Green Bay. Is it possible that forcing the issue with Cribbs is actually hurting the offense? Or that perhaps he's spread too thin? What would I do? Let him run from the Wildcat formation, but run different plays — not just the sweep and the fake-one-way-and-run-the­-other play they always run. Use some misdirection, something different. Last season's coaches did not believe Cribbs could handle a larger load on offense. At this point they appear to be right. You have to love Cribbs as a player, but more and more it's looking like as a receiver he makes a great kick returner.

7)      The Browns ran a quarterback sneak on second-and-1 against Green Bay, and some people defended it because it got them a first down. These are the levels to which we have sunk.

8)      My buddy who used to call Pete Franklin and identify himself as "Joe Fan" — he'd always take the side of the fans — called Sunday and offered this solution: Have the Dolans and Lerners trade teams. Give the Indians to the Lerners, who could operate with their financial resources in a system without a salary cap. Then let the Dolans run the Browns, because they could operate in a capped system and let the revenues dictate their spending. "Joe Fan" often suggests things like this.

9)      Someone smarter than me — and that's a lengthy list — will have to figure what happened to the two quarterbacks. Brady Quinn led the Browns to 59 points in two games last season. Derek Anderson threw 29 touchdowns two seasons ago. Neither look close to what they did. To say they've regressed is putting it mildly. Maybe the team needs a field trip to the Shedd Aquarium this weekend to help clear the mind.

10)  Here's another thing that bothered me about the Browns offense against Green Bay. Their way to "take some shots" down the field was to throw the go. Receiver lines out wide, and takes off straight down the field. Against Green Bay, it came against man coverage with two very good corners doing the covering. Maybe run a go once, but four times? Why keep trying such a simple route that is pretty easy to defend, especially when receivers are not that fast. This is a low percentage pass. Might it not help to go with a more high percentage passing game? What's that? Can't do it because Derek Anderson doesn't throw the short pass well? Well what about Brady … umm .. never mind. See what a mess this team is? I mean … they trade Kellen Winslow and then run an offense tailor made for Kellen Winslow. It's not a matter of effort or caring. Obviously everyone is trying. It's. Just. Not. Working. Oh … get ready to hear how the late-season games are a boost if the Browns somehow find a way to beat an Oakland or a Jacksonville or a Kansas City in December. Right here is where you roll your eyes.

A sampling of letters, mainly dealing with Eric Mangini …

Dear Pat,

When Eric Mangini took over as head coach I was "drinking the Kool-Aid" about players trying to get better every day on one thing and that we'd see steady improvement.  Well, that has proven to be just one more false hope for us diehard Browns fans, who have now been putting up with these emotional swings for 11 seasons.

 I sat at yesterday's game in Cleveland against Green Bay and I had pretty much made up my mind it would be my last game there as a season ticket holder.  The final nail in the coffin was watching that debacle.  The Browns are no better than the original expansion team in 1999.  I am no longer willing to throw my complete loyalty and money towards supporting the Cleveland Browns, so I won't be renewing my season tickets.  I'll have to eat my PSLs, but when you look at the cost of me traveling to games from St. Louis, Dallas or Chicago, walking from the PSLs is nothing.

Why would I continue to go to games when I don't have fun? 

All the time I put into supporting the team for 47 years and all the money spent just isn't worth it anymore.  I hope Randy Lerner does well.  He and his father brought a team back to Cleveland for which all of us should be grateful.  It's the so-called "football people" that have let him and the great fans of the Browns down.

Steve Bohnenkamp

Geneva, Ill.

Dear Steve,

To those who say making a move now is not fair to the coach, it might not be. But what is fair to the good and loyal fans of the Browns?

Dear Pat,

I can only think that if Brady Quinn was given these last four games to play he could have developed and the team would be in a better place now because of it. But egos stand in the way of the Browns finding out if we have one quarterback that might be worth a damn. I have never rooted against the Browns in all my years. At this juncture I find myself pulling for them to lose. And to lose badly. This coach does not deserve his position and I would rather rebuild with a true GM and coach instead of someone that obviously is an egomaniac and control freak.

Sincerely,

Gerald Keefer

 Dear Gerald,

The only thing the Browns have learned about their quarterbacks this season is how not to handle them.

Dear Pat,

I cannot argue any of the points in your recent article.  However, as an educated reporter, what do you think will really happen to the new Browns coach?  Personally, I think Randy Lerner will never fire a coach in his first season, but I'm hoping I'm wrong.  This might actually surpass the Spergon Wynn days as the worst football in Browns history, and it makes me wonder if Lerner realizes the damage that's being done to the fan base.  Not only with the loyal customers, who have been kicked in the teeth for years, but also the next generation of kids who have never seen winning football in Cleveland.

Tom Crookston Stow

 Dear Tom,

Imagine this … 11 years of losing … three years with no football … the Belichick years. That's an entire generation of football kids, lost.

Dear Pat,

I am a Jets fan and have been all my life. My best friend is a dedicated Browns fan and I love to root for the underdog.  Believe me when I tell you, we (Jets fans) almost had a ticker tape parade when Mangini was fired. It was in my opinion at least two years too late.  For the Browns to have picked him up so soon was a mistake and it needs to be rectified now.  He saps morale, and he can't coach, as you can plainly see.  He needs to go. I hope for the fans sake that something happens soon.

Allison Norman

Dear Allison,

It's not about fines or laps or anything else. It's about what's happening on the field. And it's not working. 

Dear Pat,

If there are others like me, here, you can have a good laugh … I'm having second thoughts about Romeo Crennel.

Keith Vlasak Sandusky, Ohio

Dear Keith,

I never thought Crennel was as bad as people made him out to be, but I also didn't think he helped himself a lot. That being said, imagine the situation we are in now where Crennel has been vindicated.

Dear Pat,

Eric Mangini is embarrassing an already embarrassed city and franchise. This team is every bit as bad as the 1999 team and getting worse. Heck, we beat Pittsburgh in '99 I think.

Ray Lehotsky North Royalton, Ohio

Dear Ray,

You're right. Chris Palmer's expansion team beat Pittsburgh. In Pittsburgh.

Dear Pat,

Here we go … Mr. Know It Al is at it again. You are as crazy as they come. The best thing that can happen is the Browns shut the media OUT. Leave Mangini alone. He cleared out a large percentage of players from Davis and Crennel that you sportswriters said needed to go anyhow. Give the guy a chance to get what is needed. It's not going to happen overnight with things as bad as they were. Yu writers make me puke.

Rusty Kristen Sara

Dear Rusty,

Glad we got that straight. Hope you feel better tomorrow. 

Dear Pat,

It is amazing how pathetic a team can play. Name just one part of the Browns that may even be classified as average. The quarterback situation has been talked about even before the season started and yet that hardly can be the total problem. It just boggles my mind.

Ron Ferko

Dear Ron,

You're right. Nothing is even average on this team.

(Want to be recognized in “Three and Out”? It’s a rare treat. Comment here or send an e-mail to pmcmanamon@thebeaconjournal.com, and put “First and 10” in the subject line.)