2)      Brady Quinn gave little hope for the future with the way he played in Cincinnati, but I still would not give up on him. This season has been a mess from start to finish, so I think it's next to impossible to judge any player based on the way the offense has been run and the way things have gone.

3)      When I see Quinn I kind of/sort of/maybe/perhaps want to think of Vince Young, a guy many were saying was done in Tennessee after last season. He's got himself back together. Why can't Quinn, he wrote, wondering if perhaps he's next going to advocate that the flying reindeer will soon be distributing Clark bars to all autoworkers as they clock in to work.

4)      Really, the only two consistent and dependable guys on the offense week in and week out this season have been Joe Thomas and Eric Steinbach — and maybe even Alex Mack. Them we can judge. They can stay. Put down roots. Buy, not rent. The rest … who knows what to make of their performances. Things have been mishandled that badly. When this season ends, it's best to flush it as fast as possible and move to clean water. And yes, that's a nasty image.

5)      The Browns have yet to hire a general manager — how did this term "football czar" take hold? — and they might not until the season ends. It just seems that most folks who are available and willing to work in 2010 want to wait and see what else is available, and those who aren't available have to wait because they're working for another team. This tells me that Mike Holmgren might not decide if he wants to become the "czar of football" until after the season. Though it sure would be nice to think that he might become Cleveland's (dramatic music in the background as John Facenda mutters) "czar of football." I just think pursuing him makes a lot of sense.

6)      It's hard to see anyone telling a new "czar of football" that he must accept a coach not of his choosing. No self-respecting "czar of football" is going to run "football" without wanting to choose "his" coach. Bottom line: This just does not seem good for Eric Mangini's "future" with the Browns. Using quotation marks that way always makes me think of Saturday Night Live.

7)      The absence of a "czar" — again, where did this term arise? — shows in the Brian Robiskie situation. A "czar" could ask, pointedly: "What the heck? The guy is a second-round draft pick. The team is 1-10. Get the guy on the field and see what he can do." Would we rather evaluate Mike Furrey some more? Or was Jake Allen that impressive in practice last Thursday?

8)      Shaun Rogers is done for the season, which is a shame. The guy is a good player who's given his all in every game since he's been a Brown. But I wonder how much it will matter. The Browns are ranked 31st in the league in defense with Rogers, and they're giving up 159.9 yards per game rushing with him in the middle. It's not like their ranking is going to plummet without him. Though I guess it could go to 32.

9)      Rogers' penalty at end of the first half gave Cincinnati another of those infernal "untimed downs" the Browns have made famous, but at least it was a hustle play. Rogers chased Carson Palmer out of the pocket and just grabbed the wrong part of Palmer's jersey. The play did show why the horse-collar tackles has been banned. The potential for injury is high. And it was nice to hear Eric Mangini say he didn't see the play but he respected the ref's call. It was far different than the way he approached the pass interference penalty in Detroit, and a far better way to handle it. But, even though it was a hustle play, those three points sure changed the nature of the game.

10)  It's pretty goofy of Mangini not to say exactly what Rogers' injury is, but that's the coach's policy.

11)  That promise of stopping the run this season made by Rob Ryan before the season? Doesn't seem to have worked out.

12)   Noticed that Darnell Dinkins caught a touchdown pass for New Orleans Monday night. That's the ex-Browns tight end, the guy the Browns let go when they signed Robert Royal. Dinkins caught the pass, and when the game ends he's in New Orleans playing for an undefeated team and eating beignets and drinking café au lait. It'd be interesting to know if he's happy about the change of scenery.

Three and Out

Hey Pat,

What's the real reason behind the unrelenting support of Brady Quinn?  Did you dole out big bucks for official Brady Quinn jerseys for your daughters?

Brian D.

Twinsburg

Dear Brian,

Well, he did hold the door for me once at Panera.

Good afternoon Pat,

It’s hard to disagree with your assessment about Brady Quinn’s incomplete.  But there is something I’ve seen the last two weeks that bothers me, to the point I wonder if he’ll ever pan out.  On about 75 percent of his passes, he looks completely out of sync,  like a power pitcher trying to throw to first base after fielding a slow roller in front of the mound.  His motion is not right.  How many times is he going to fire the ball into the ground at the receiver’s feet? There is no rhythm to his delivery.  His wrist is tight, not loose.  On a couple throws he looked like he was trying to throw a sinker, his wrist snapped so hard downward at the release. And that’s where the ball went – straight down.

Browns played Bengals close both games – and that’s the  team that dominated the Central Division this year.  The glory of the ‘Tradition’ of the Cleveland Browns has just expanded.  It now includes the opponent scoring on extra plays awarded at the end of halves/games by penalties on the defense.  Rogers’ play cost us three points.  At the end of the game, that could have made a difference.  In any event, we played them pretty tough this year. Silver lining?

How bad is a franchise when, over a 10 year period, its best players, year in, year out, are the punter and place kicker. Phil Dawson has to be the unluckiest player in the NFL.  I think he might be  the best place kicker the team has ever had.  We just don’t realize it because he hasn’t been there to win big games for us.  He’s such a classy guy.  Think what a huge star he would be had he played for Indianapolis or New England the last 10 years.

And our punters have been very good as well.  Dave Zastudil is as good as we’ve ever had.

So when you assess the cloud hanging over the Browns, ask yourself how many teams in the history of the NFL have lost both their place kicker AND punter simultaneously for an extended period of time.

George Rosin

Akron

Good day George,

Always good to hear from an old friend, and as always you raise good points. As for the silver lining, has it really reached the point where it's a silver lining to play the Bengals close? Is that what we've come to? And … how can there be any silver lining given your extremely accurate statements about the kickers.

From the online comments …

Eric Mangini is the Lord of his kingdom and no player should ever, ever question him over his rule.

Just look at his history. Because of his Lordship's rule, he has stabbed veteran players in the back, fired his own best friend General Manager, accused another former buddy coach of stalling time with fake injuries, and accused his former "mentor" (Belichick) of cheating by stealing signals.

He has overlooked veteran players at charity events (Rogers) and has had the most grievances filed against him in one season in the NFL.

If a player makes a statement to the press, that player's time is cut for the next game. Rookie players cannot get onto the field to play because they have not "shown enough" yet??? So he picks up free agents off the waiver wire and plays them instead???

He fines players with excessive fines and even refuses to allow them to play in a game until they learn "his way or the highway."

What happened to the days of a coach being a mentor, teacher and instructor instead of a ruler???

Not much else I can add here, other than I sure would hate to be his friend. I wonder how many Browns players feel that way right now???

Strange behavior leads to strange happenings.

Alex K

Dear Alex,

Fairness forces me to admit that Mangini does have his defenders online as well. Not many, but there are a couple holdouts. Just like there are a couple folks who still insist Oswald acted alone in the library with a paring knife.

I just wonder why you use three question marks at the same time.

(Want to be recognized in “Three and Out”? It’s a rare treat. Comment here or send an e-mail to pmcmanamon@thebeaconjournal.com, and put “First and 10” in the subject line.)

1)      There were many reactions to my idea that it's time for the Browns to admit they made a mistake with Eric Mangini, that it's best to move on. Almost 90 percent of the e-mails and calls were positive. Folks said they agreed a change is needed. Some said thanks, others said well spoken, others criticized the owner for hiring Mangini, and some said my brains have less consistency than Jello. All is fine. As Mike Brown once said, I agree with what I said. But … just because I said … errr … wrote it doesn't mean Randy Lerner will do it. In fact, he's probably not going to do it. Which is fine. It is his team after all.

2)      That being said, the Browns have to be aware of the damage being done to their following. I've never seen a Browns crowd so apathetic as it was against Green Bay. The opposing quarterback said it was eerily quiet in the Browns stadium. People are acting like they've been hit too many times. Friends I know who have tickets can't give them away. The people I hear from are angry, which on one level makes sense because you usually hear from the angry people. But the fan base is sickened by what they see. The team's revenues could nosedive this offseason if the fans think 2010 will be more of the same. Yes, there are 11 draft picks. But if the Browns are hanging their hats on those draft picks they are fooling themselves. This regime traded three top six picks (Braylon Edwards, Kellen Winslow, the fifth overall choice) and the only first-round pick they got in return was center Alex Mack. So they got a center, second- and third-round choices, a bunch of mid-round picks and a bunch of ex-Jets. 

3)      Some criticized me for criticizing the Browns for lack of continuity, then asking for another change. Fair enough. I just think keeping on with a mistake makes the mistake worse. If you paint your living room and realize one-third of the way through that the color is ugly, do you keep painting? Didn’t think so. The Indians made quick moves with coaches in the past when it was obvious their hiring wasn't working (Eddie Murray, a pitching coach whose name I forget). It's time to bite the bullet and accept reality. It's not working. Chart a new course in 2010, and hope that the next hire (or hires) has (have) more success. Too… if a change is made, I'd advocate hiring a football guy to run football. Then said football guy can hire the coach.

4)      It's been opined that the Browns have no talent. I don't disagree. There is a serious lack of talent. But I said that last year, and many yelled at me and cried for Romeo Crennel to be fired. Much of the same talent is back, and Mangini supplemented it with 23 players he chose (as of opening day). Ten of them are ex-Jets he wanted and went and got — either via trade or free agency. So if Mangini was right on the new guys, the team should be better. Because he brought in players he wanted to a team that got screwed up last season by the coach. Doesn't seem like you can have it both ways — cry about the coach last season, then lament the talent this season.

5)      The Browns rank dead last in the league in defense, and they are giving up 170 yards rushing per game. Why, then, did I opine that Rob Ryan would be the choice for interim coach? Basically because he's the best option. The only thing that I think will get the Browns going this season is a different voice, a guy who approaches things far differently from Mangini. That would be Ryan, a coordinator with personality who's not afraid to take people on. I'd make the move, tell Ryan to try to make a name for himself and see what happens. Like I said, it can't be worse.

6)      Seems to me that the Browns keep forcing the issue with Josh Cribbs on offense. They've tried him at receiver, they've tried him at quarterback. Thus far, he's had a critical fumble against Minnesota, a big dropped pass against Buffalo, an interception against Pittsburgh and another fumble against Green Bay. Is it possible that forcing the issue with Cribbs is actually hurting the offense? Or that perhaps he's spread too thin? What would I do? Let him run from the Wildcat formation, but run different plays — not just the sweep and the fake-one-way-and-run-the­-other play they always run. Use some misdirection, something different. Last season's coaches did not believe Cribbs could handle a larger load on offense. At this point they appear to be right. You have to love Cribbs as a player, but more and more it's looking like as a receiver he makes a great kick returner.

7)      The Browns ran a quarterback sneak on second-and-1 against Green Bay, and some people defended it because it got them a first down. These are the levels to which we have sunk.

8)      My buddy who used to call Pete Franklin and identify himself as "Joe Fan" — he'd always take the side of the fans — called Sunday and offered this solution: Have the Dolans and Lerners trade teams. Give the Indians to the Lerners, who could operate with their financial resources in a system without a salary cap. Then let the Dolans run the Browns, because they could operate in a capped system and let the revenues dictate their spending. "Joe Fan" often suggests things like this.

9)      Someone smarter than me — and that's a lengthy list — will have to figure what happened to the two quarterbacks. Brady Quinn led the Browns to 59 points in two games last season. Derek Anderson threw 29 touchdowns two seasons ago. Neither look close to what they did. To say they've regressed is putting it mildly. Maybe the team needs a field trip to the Shedd Aquarium this weekend to help clear the mind.

10)  Here's another thing that bothered me about the Browns offense against Green Bay. Their way to "take some shots" down the field was to throw the go. Receiver lines out wide, and takes off straight down the field. Against Green Bay, it came against man coverage with two very good corners doing the covering. Maybe run a go once, but four times? Why keep trying such a simple route that is pretty easy to defend, especially when receivers are not that fast. This is a low percentage pass. Might it not help to go with a more high percentage passing game? What's that? Can't do it because Derek Anderson doesn't throw the short pass well? Well what about Brady … umm .. never mind. See what a mess this team is? I mean … they trade Kellen Winslow and then run an offense tailor made for Kellen Winslow. It's not a matter of effort or caring. Obviously everyone is trying. It's. Just. Not. Working. Oh … get ready to hear how the late-season games are a boost if the Browns somehow find a way to beat an Oakland or a Jacksonville or a Kansas City in December. Right here is where you roll your eyes.

A sampling of letters, mainly dealing with Eric Mangini …

Dear Pat,

When Eric Mangini took over as head coach I was "drinking the Kool-Aid" about players trying to get better every day on one thing and that we'd see steady improvement.  Well, that has proven to be just one more false hope for us diehard Browns fans, who have now been putting up with these emotional swings for 11 seasons.

 I sat at yesterday's game in Cleveland against Green Bay and I had pretty much made up my mind it would be my last game there as a season ticket holder.  The final nail in the coffin was watching that debacle.  The Browns are no better than the original expansion team in 1999.  I am no longer willing to throw my complete loyalty and money towards supporting the Cleveland Browns, so I won't be renewing my season tickets.  I'll have to eat my PSLs, but when you look at the cost of me traveling to games from St. Louis, Dallas or Chicago, walking from the PSLs is nothing.

Why would I continue to go to games when I don't have fun? 

All the time I put into supporting the team for 47 years and all the money spent just isn't worth it anymore.  I hope Randy Lerner does well.  He and his father brought a team back to Cleveland for which all of us should be grateful.  It's the so-called "football people" that have let him and the great fans of the Browns down.

Steve Bohnenkamp

Geneva, Ill.

Dear Steve,

To those who say making a move now is not fair to the coach, it might not be. But what is fair to the good and loyal fans of the Browns?

Dear Pat,

I can only think that if Brady Quinn was given these last four games to play he could have developed and the team would be in a better place now because of it. But egos stand in the way of the Browns finding out if we have one quarterback that might be worth a damn. I have never rooted against the Browns in all my years. At this juncture I find myself pulling for them to lose. And to lose badly. This coach does not deserve his position and I would rather rebuild with a true GM and coach instead of someone that obviously is an egomaniac and control freak.

Sincerely,

Gerald Keefer

 Dear Gerald,

The only thing the Browns have learned about their quarterbacks this season is how not to handle them.

Dear Pat,

I cannot argue any of the points in your recent article.  However, as an educated reporter, what do you think will really happen to the new Browns coach?  Personally, I think Randy Lerner will never fire a coach in his first season, but I'm hoping I'm wrong.  This might actually surpass the Spergon Wynn days as the worst football in Browns history, and it makes me wonder if Lerner realizes the damage that's being done to the fan base.  Not only with the loyal customers, who have been kicked in the teeth for years, but also the next generation of kids who have never seen winning football in Cleveland.

Tom Crookston Stow

 Dear Tom,

Imagine this … 11 years of losing … three years with no football … the Belichick years. That's an entire generation of football kids, lost.

Dear Pat,

I am a Jets fan and have been all my life. My best friend is a dedicated Browns fan and I love to root for the underdog.  Believe me when I tell you, we (Jets fans) almost had a ticker tape parade when Mangini was fired. It was in my opinion at least two years too late.  For the Browns to have picked him up so soon was a mistake and it needs to be rectified now.  He saps morale, and he can't coach, as you can plainly see.  He needs to go. I hope for the fans sake that something happens soon.

Allison Norman

Dear Allison,

It's not about fines or laps or anything else. It's about what's happening on the field. And it's not working. 

Dear Pat,

If there are others like me, here, you can have a good laugh … I'm having second thoughts about Romeo Crennel.

Keith Vlasak Sandusky, Ohio

Dear Keith,

I never thought Crennel was as bad as people made him out to be, but I also didn't think he helped himself a lot. That being said, imagine the situation we are in now where Crennel has been vindicated.

Dear Pat,

Eric Mangini is embarrassing an already embarrassed city and franchise. This team is every bit as bad as the 1999 team and getting worse. Heck, we beat Pittsburgh in '99 I think.

Ray Lehotsky North Royalton, Ohio

Dear Ray,

You're right. Chris Palmer's expansion team beat Pittsburgh. In Pittsburgh.

Dear Pat,

Here we go … Mr. Know It Al is at it again. You are as crazy as they come. The best thing that can happen is the Browns shut the media OUT. Leave Mangini alone. He cleared out a large percentage of players from Davis and Crennel that you sportswriters said needed to go anyhow. Give the guy a chance to get what is needed. It's not going to happen overnight with things as bad as they were. Yu writers make me puke.

Rusty Kristen Sara

Dear Rusty,

Glad we got that straight. Hope you feel better tomorrow. 

Dear Pat,

It is amazing how pathetic a team can play. Name just one part of the Browns that may even be classified as average. The quarterback situation has been talked about even before the season started and yet that hardly can be the total problem. It just boggles my mind.

Ron Ferko

Dear Ron,

You're right. Nothing is even average on this team.

(Want to be recognized in “Three and Out”? It’s a rare treat. Comment here or send an e-mail to pmcmanamon@thebeaconjournal.com, and put “First and 10” in the subject line.)

I heard but have not confirmed that Tom Heckert has pulled his name from consideration for the Browns GM post. This indicates that George Kokinis of Baltimore really is the leading candidate, but if it's not Kokinis then who? Perhaps T.J. McCreight, the Browns Director of Player Personnel. This is not exactly the strong, experienced GM type I envisioned when this search started. It also indicates that Mangini's role in the hiring of the GM is not insignificant.

[ADD: Adam Schefter reported that Heckert is out on NFL.com ... which pretty much confirms it. Here's what Schefter wrote: "Heckert told the Browns he is canceling the interview that was scheduled for Friday because he doesn’t know Mangini and would not be entirely comfortable with the situation in Cleveland the way that it is. This leaves Baltimore’s director of pro personnel, George Kokinis, as the last known candidate for the Browns general manager job."]]

[[UPDATE II: John Taylor of the Orange and Brown report (a site all Browns fans should be aware of and read) apparently reads this blog -- a shame for him -- and got in touch to say he had learned Heckert is out, in part because he would have been coming as GM after having no say in the hiring of the coach.]]

Finally … everyone seems excited and energized by the hiring of Rob Ryan as the Browns defensive coordinator. Me included. At long last, the Browns will have a coordinator who attacks, who plays offense on defense. This could one of best and most significant positives about the Browns situation that has sprung from the hiring of Mangini. Ryan gets his guys to play for him. He will not sit back in a two-deep coverage against a guy like Trent Edwards. He will go after the offense.  Which is a very good thing.

Call this a personal note if you wish, but this kind of thing bugged me about Mangini. It deals with the way he listed injuries in New York, which was less than candid and (quite frankly) against league rules. I hope this changes in Cleveland, and that a guy who has a pulled hamstring has a pulled hamstring. Why? Because honesty matters. The truth, as they say, shall set you free.

News flash: The Browns hired Eric Mangini to be the team's coach. This has been expected for some time, but it's now official. Details on the contract and pay and structure and all that stuff will come soon enough.

For now, I've got to say I'm not doing cartwheels down the hallway. Mangini has credentials, and I understand Randy Lerner's thinking. I'm just not thrilled by the choice. This could all change, of course, if he wins games. Then it will become a great choice. But right now I'm not doing backflips. Or cartwheels.

Think nationally, not locally

The general local reaction seems comparable to mine. That Mangini has credentials, but is not the right fit at this time (clearly Lerner disagrees). But what's the take nationally? Foxsports ran a poll asking was Mangini the right guy, yes or no.

As of this writing there were 19,227 votes, and 63 percent voted yes. That's a pretty resounding total, and one that might want to make us locals (me included) pause for a minute.

Tidbit of information that will be in tomorrow's Beacon Journal: Nine of the last 11 Super Bowls have been won by coaches working for their second team (Tom Coughlin, Tony Dungy, Belichick, Jon Gruden, Dick Vermeil, Shanahan). Clearly the Browns are hoping that trend holds with Mangini.

Coordinator info

Mangini is expected to hire former Jets quarterback coach Brian Daboll as offensive coordinator, and ESPN.com reported Rob Ryan will leave the Raiders to be defensive coordinator. Apparently Romeo Crennel will not stay with the team. Fans will be pleased with Rob Ryan if he uses an attacking style defense like his brother Rex does in Baltimore.