Lost amidst all the this and that about the Browns is the fact that they lost their MVP Wednesday when punter Dave Zastudil was placed on injured reserve.

How's this team supposed to compete in Detroit now?

Well … I guess this gives Eric Mangini a built-in excuse.

Well  … the players are saying that the Browns coaches did not call the last play in the loss to Baltimore the other night. The one that sent Josh Cribbs to the hospital. They said the call came on the field, with Brady Quinn and Cribbs creating something on the fly.

Always good to know that the players on the field are thinking as clearly as the braintrust, eh?

Except it doesn't add up.

Cribbs caught the pass and looked for the lateral. Jerome Harrison started to run right behind Cribbs with his hand, calling for the ball. Robert Royal caught the lateral and looked for another.

It looked every bit like a called play.

Too, if it wasn't, why were the Browns throwing deep passes the previous two plays?

They treated that final series as if they were down five, not 16. Two deep throws and a hook-and-lateral. Seems like a team trying to score as if the game is still on the line.

One insider even told me that Brady Quinn threw the two deep balls out of bounds intentionally. That he knew the calls were ridiculous, so he heaved them OB.

It's always something, isn't it?

Meanwhile, this is what Steve Young had to say on ESPN about the Browns:

“I was part of a team like this in 1986 when I was with Tampa Bay. I remember thinking to myself when I got really depressed, 'Maybe I should go to law school. Maybe I should do something else.' It reminds me of what’s going on with the Browns. You can not say enough about the disaster that is happening in Cleveland right now.”

1)      I'm thinking that right now the Lions ought to be favored by nine.

2)      Imagine that. The Browns a more-than-deserving near-double digit underdog to a team that has one win since the start of the 2009 season. Say this for the Browns: They've earned it.

3)      For the second game in a row, the Browns opponent played down to the Browns level, yet won fairly easily. Baltimore played about as well as Chicago played against the Browns, which is to say pretty poorly. One mistake by a cornerback, one mistake by a quarterback — game over. With never a threat that the Browns would come back on their own to win. Expectations have been driven so subterranean that it's worthy of celebrating when the Browns hold a team to a scoreless half.

4)      Nothing Eric Mangini tries is working. Nothing. His quarterback competition. Working players harder. Bringing in his players. Forcing Cribbs into the wide receiver spot. Brian Daboll as offensive coordinator. George Kokinis. Calling timeout against Cincinnati, which only served to set up the Bengals touchdown that sent the game into overtime. Not calling timeout against Baltimore as his guys were trotting on the field when the Ravens lined up at the 13. Going no-huddle against Baltimore. None of it has worked. None of it. And were it not for a botched punt return by Buffalo, we surely would be looking at an oh-and-nine team right now. This is not bad luck, though. It's bad coaching. Bad coaching, bad decisions, bad everything.

5)      Calling that hook-and-lateral with three seconds left and the Browns down 16 was inane. What was the point? The game was over. O-v-e-r. Running that play only served to injure one of the Browns best players. Yes, injuries are sometimes bad luck. But in this case the Browns made their own bad luck with an ill-advised play call at a point of the game when that call was not necessary.

6)      It was almost as ludicrous as having Brady Quinn throw two bombs the previous two plays. Were those going to somehow tie the game? Even if they were .. . well … actually thrown inbounds.

7)      When we assess the Browns offense Monday night, let's not forget the Browns were coming off a bye. Which means they had two weeks to prepare for Baltimore. Two weeks and they come up with that performance. The NFL is a passing league, and most teams move the ball by opening up the field and running receivers in different patterns all over the field. Except … the … Browns. It seems obvious now that the Browns have two different game plans for Derek Anderson and Quinn, and that the coaching staff does not trust Quinn to throw down the field, except in the rarest of instances or when they are down 16 and less than 20 seconds are left.

8)      Eric Mangini said after the game that the Browns are trying to throw the ball downfield with Quinn. "We're not avoiding that part of the field," he said. Well it sure looks like they are. Just about every play Quinn ran was a quick rollout and quick throw. Usually for four-to-six yards. It looked like a JV offense for the high school team.

9)      People say that we now know about Brady Quinn, that he's not an NFL quarterback. I'm not buying that. I don't think we know anything more about either quarterback because it's next to impossible to judge them based on the offense being run and the plays being called. I would not shrink from bringing in a new quarterback next season, but I also would not give up on Quinn because of this season.

10)  I don't understand why Mangini didn't call for a timeout when he didn't have the players on the field with Baltimore at the 13-yard-line. The last Brown was trotting on the field as the ball was snapped. Mangini called that timeout earlier in the season against Cincinnati in a similar circumstance and he didn't need to. This time he needed to and he didn’t call timeout. Nothing is working. Too, how can it be that at this point of the season the Browns can't even get the right guys on the field for a critical play. Ten men with the other team lining up at the 13? This is the attention to detail that is stressed so much by this regime? What a joke.

Three and Out

Dear Pat,

 I don't always agree with you, but I certainly do with your latest article. It's blown my mind that this is the third season that Brady Quinn has been a member of the team and we still don't know if he's an NFL quarterback. One of the best ways to help Quinn's confidence is to run the football and limit how many times he has to throw it.  This is what Marty Schottenheimer did when they were breaking Bernie Kosar in 24 years ago.

It would be nice to see some close, competitive games in the second half of the season, huh?

Steve Bohnenkamp

Geneva IL

Dear Steve,

The Browns ran fairly well Monday night, but they had their backs run 24 times (including one WR reverse) and had Quinn throw 31 passes. This seems like forcing the pass to maintain balance, especially considering the passes the Browns threw.

As for competitive games … we've reached the point where we hope to compete against Detroit … Kansas City … Oakland.

Uncle.

Dear Pat,

Eric Mangini was such a terrible hire from the very start. My most pressing concern as a Browns fan is to see him gone. At the same time, I have this sinking feeling that the search for a new Chief Football Officer is going to be similarly botched—too rushed, too shortsighted, too fixated on a name. 

 Now, I don’t know if the Mike Holmgren rumor is for real or just one of those half-baked ESPN reports. But look at his resume in Seattle: In 10 seasons as coach he was 12 games over .500 (in a consistently pathetic division), he posted a 4-6 playoff record, and after four years on the job he was stripped of his GM duties (with a 31-33 record)—duties which he was denied in Green Bay.

 So is Mike Holmgren any good at having final approval on players or constructing and leading an organization? Isn’t that the job? I’m not saying he wouldn’t be an upgrade over the current regime. I mean, the bar’s been set right at about ankle level. But even a future Hall of Famer can be unqualified, and at this point I’ve seen enough unqualified people come through town.

Michael Stevens

Boca Raton, FL

Dear Michael,

Valid points on Holmgren. Let me address some of them:

1)      The Browns want him to be a candidate. Whether he becomes one is up to him.

2)      Holmgren had the record you mentioned in Seattle, but he also took two different teams to the Super Bowl. That says something too.

3)      He lost the GM job, but that's because he was doing two jobs. I think he's smart enough and knows football well enough that he could be a strong and positive guiding hand while doing one job.

4)      Would Holmgren look more attractive if he brought Jon Gruden with him as coach?

5)      Which of these names has the most rings: Holmgren, Bill Cowher, Brian Billick, Jon Gruden. Answer: All the above. They all have one.

6)      I think you'll see a different type search this time than the one Randy Lerner conducted in January. I think he'll involve more people, ask more opinions and get more feedback. This is good.

If the Browns can hire Mike Holmgren, I'm all for it.

Dear Pat,

I know a lot of fans were hoping the Ravens would embarrass the Browns to hasten the departure of Mangini and to secure the overall No. 1 pick.  And I kind of felt that way following the Bears game, amidst the intrigue of the Kokinis firing/resignation.  But by the middle of last week I was actually looking forward to Monday night, dreaming that the bye would be a reset, the staff would finally get it together, and that in his return Brady would become the Mighty Quinn and begin a Browns career that would place him up there with other Browns championship QBs, like Otto Graham, and Frank Ryan, and……umm….well, you get my drift.  And yea, the first half was OK because it was a draw and anything was still possible.  Then came the third quarter.

 And while it may be simplistic and unfair to distill this disastrous season down to one play, for me it all came down to one critical moment in this coaching regime's tenure.  Score 0-0, just gave up a big play to the Ravens, but an opportunity remains to take back the momentum with a stop, where even a Ravens' field goal would be a positive for the Browns.  And in the ninth game of the season, after two weeks to prepare, THEY CAN'T EVEN GET 11 MEN ON THE FIELD.  Honestly, how is that possible?  That, of course, led to Ray Rice's TD and that opened the door to yet another national embarrassment.

So while there is a lack of talent on the Browns, and competing with such a deficit is extremely difficult, it is now clear to me that this is really a secondary problem.  The first problem, and one that will ensure failure regardless of the talent level, are the people coaching and preparing the team.  Lerner must jettison Mangini now because he has no future with the team.  Keeping him for the remainder of the season will only serve to scare off talented candidates for GM who don't want to worry about being stuck with an awful coach or don't want the hassle of having to fire him.  Really, this is the only option that remains.

Dan Hough

Dear Dan,

I really can't disagree with much of what you say … but comparing Brady Quinn to Otto Graham? Wow.

That’s even worse than this colossal failure of a season.

(Want to be recognized in “Three and Out”? It’s a rare treat. Comment here or send an e-mail to pmcmanamon@thebeaconjournal.com, and put “First and 10” in the subject line.)

What follows is a news item that will appear in Friday's Beacon-Journal. I include a slightly expanded version on the blog, with no comments … because it is news:

A second Cleveland Browns player suffered a serious injury in the team's post-practice ""opportunity period."

Keith Grennan, a practice squad defensive end, ruptured a patella tendon Thursday and will have surgery Monday.

He will be sidelined for at least eight months, perhaps one year. Cameron Foster, Grennan's agent, confirmed the injury, but said he did not know details that led to it happening.

The story was first reported on AOL's Fanhouse.com, and was confirmed by league sources.

Grennan and rookie running back James Davis both were injured in the post-practice period when coach Eric Mangini gives his rookies and young players extra time.

Wrote AOL: "… the fact that another player has been injured during the opportunity period is only going to strengthen the belief around the team that Mangini's draconian coaching methods are exposing the players to unnecessary risk."

Mangini calls the post-practice sessions an "opportunity period" because players have the opportunity to improve their skills.

"It’s all different areas," Mangini said the day after the win over Buffalo, "where we’re trying to help guys get better at skill sets, give them some concentrated attention, because those practice squad guys don’t really get a lot of chances to do the things that we’re doing.

"It’s the same thing with some of the younger guys. They may get chances, they may not get chances, but you want to keep developing them so that they don’t lose the season, they don’t lose each one of those days."

Others disagree.

"You're forcing them out there after they've already practiced and they're tired and you're putting them at risk," one league source said. "That's why Jamal Lewis said what he said. Kids are out there for three hours … something's going to break."

Thursday Lewis said the Browns are a physically drained team after dealing with lengthy practices all season long.

The source — who works for an NFL team – called for the league to investigate the post-practice practices, and said if they happened back to the days when Mangini coached in New England then the investigation should go back that far.

The league source said rookies must "volunteer' — the word was used loosely — to stay on the field for an extra 30 minutes after a two-and-a-half-hour practice, and then take part in one-on-one full-speed drills.

Davis hurt his shoulder in a drill, and though various reports claimed he was not wearing pads at the time he was hurt the league cleared the Browns of any wrongdoing.

Mangini said all drills are supervised, with coaches present. Players were in pads when Grennan was injured. Mangini also said when describing the drills that Bill Belichick ran them, and that they have helped younger players.

"It’s designed to help them have the best chance to bump up," Mangini said.

AOL quoted an NFL Players Association spokesman saying the NFLPA would look into the situation.

Joe Read, formerly from Stow, sent this e-mail. I re-print it with his permission:

Pat, I think your pal Clark (Judge) did a good job with this (CBSSports.com) interview but the duality of Mangini is incredible.  The local press conferences are drowned out by crickets and yawns as the non-info is delivered in boilerplate by the coach.  Yet Mangini talks to an out of town columnist and does the equivalent of an Oprah-cleansing.  I just don’t get it.  I think the Cleveland fans deserve much better from the Browns front-office and management team, particularly when the product is an embarrassment.

Just to prove I'm not the only person beating up on Mangini, I offer three takes from profootballtalk.com:

Mike Florio writes that naming Brady Quinn the starter is "roughly as relevant to the team's fortunes as the question of whether the Browns will wear white pants or brown ones."

Here, Florio says that Mangini is "lying or incompetent" when he says in the CBSSports.com interview that he did not know what Quinn's incentives were.

Here, Florio talks about how Mangini steamrolled former GM George Kokinis.

And here Florio writes of waiting two days to announce the starting quarterback: "The fact that Mangini is even playing this game is the best evidence of his delusion (but for, you know, his suggestion that there are 'remarkable similarities' between the Browns and the Patriots)."

See … it's not just me folks.

I highlight and link Marla Ridenour's story on Jamal Lewis today.

Lewis lets out some more steam about the Browns and their coach.

These words are from a veteran professional respected by everybody in the league.

Eric Mangini opened up with Clark Judge of CBSSports.com in a way he has not opened up with any local reporter since he's been hired. It's an interesting interview, a good interview, with a lot of insights and information.

Judge writes: 'What I discovered is that virtually everything I read, heard and believed about the guy does not correspond with the man I met. He was cooperative. He was engaging. He was candid. He was thoughtful, secure and downright interesting."

In the interview, Mangini said (among other things):

–Brady Quinn has a future in Cleveland

–There are many comparisons to the Browns this season and the Patriots in Bill Belichick's first season

–He sums up his philosophy this way: "You get a bunch of good people organizationally, committed to the same vision and working the same way … and it doesn't waver … great things happen."

There's a lot more, and it's good stuff. In a sense, I hesitate to comment on this interview because Clark Judge is a great, great friend of mine. He's been supportive in tough times, and we've shared some challenges together. I also respect his work as much as anyone who writes about the NFL.

It almost seems like I should talk to him before posting this, but the log world waits for no man.

So I'm going to comment:

–This is a good interview. Revealing. Expansive. It espouses Mangini's core beliefs. And it helps understand why Randy Lerner was so impressed with him after one interview.

–It also makes you wish he'd done this the first week he was hired with the local media, but he didn't. I keep hearing one dichotomy about Mangini over and over and over again. That when he gets behind closed doors and relaxes he's a different person than when he's in front of the local media and cameras. This reality even frustrates some within the Browns.

–The constant comparisons to New England are getting old. But it's becoming a trend. Let's be honest: If the Patriots don't stumble into a Hall of Fame quarterback in the sixth round, where is Bill Belichick and his staff in the Pantheon of NFL geniuses?And for those who say the Patriots were smart to draft Tom Brady, I say: "Please." New England, like every other team, passed on Brady five times. Too, let's not forget that Brady Quinn came in with more fanfare and adulation than Tom Brady. Luck is often better than good scouting. (For those who say the Patriots expected this from Brady, I say, again, "Please." A Hall of Fame quarterback in round six? Good fortune. Pure good fortune. Like Johnny Unitas trekking to the Colts after Pittsburgh cut him.)

–Goals and expectations are wonderful, and Mangini's are to be commended. But they also have to be translated to the field. Players must play as if they believe in what they are being told. The first half of the season, the first eight games, that didn't happen. The Browns were putrid. I could go back over the stats again, but I won't. They are the worst team to play in Cleveland since 1995. If the goals and expectations can't be communicated into real action, then they remain mere words.

–Judge wrote the hell out of this interview. But coming in for one afternoon paints only a partial picture. Watching this team for eight games is a much more revealing portrait. And that's what it comes down to — how the team plays. It's played lousy. Too, being around it for a long time will reveal some of the problems — especially the constant negativity and mental stress involved in playing for this team. Some things are learned over time, not with one visit or one interview. And I think Clark would agree with that point.

–I'm intrigued by the appearance of this interview right when things were at their lowest, with the GM firing swirling and many people (many other than me) speculating about Mangini's Cleveland future. If I'm the coach, at that point I go in to survival mode. Because if this coaching experience ends badly, it might affect any potential for him to be hired in the future. Perhaps this interview was happenstance. Perhaps it wasn't. I just know the timing from Mangini's standpoint — especially being so willing to do it with a national writer when he's not near as expansive locally — is intriguing.

As for my good friend Clark Judge, I'd invite him to watch replays of the previous few games with me. Or to watch the next few games with me. Either would be revealing.

That being said, I also say good for him for getting the interview, and good for Mangini for opening up with him. I only hope it's the start of a growing trend.

More insight into George Kokinis, his role, and the way things operated with him with the Browns (thanks to clevelandreboot.com for highlighting the link).

We interrupt today's entertainment for a special link (thanks to proffootballtalk.com for highlighting it). It's about a journeyman cornerback named Rod Hood, but it has some interesting observations on his experience in Cleveland this training camp. Folks, I'm not making stuff up … people do not like playing for this coach. Among Hood's comments: “I’ve never experienced football [like that]. I came from two good organizations in Philly and Arizona, and I’d never seen football handled the way it was when I was there.”