Josh Cribbs and his agent have gone public, with the agent saying Cribbs is going to clean out his locker and Cribbs going on Twitter to "tweet" (shoot me for writing that) he might not be back with the Browns.
Cribbs wants a new contract. He deserves a new contract. He's mad he hasn't gotten a new contract. So now he's gone public, one day after Mike Holmgren spent his first day in the building as the team's new president.
Two thoughts:
–Isn't it kind of likely that Holmgren might have a little more on his plate at the moment, like building an organization and hiring a General Manager and deciding on the coach.
–Has a player who is under contract ever threatened to sit out a game that was nine months away? I mean … isn't there a lot of time left in the offseason to work this out?
As good as Cribbs is, and boy is he good there comes a time when he should just take his ball and go home. and learn to exercise a little patience and tollerence. He will get his, just hush, some of us are tired of hearing about Cribbs I am. Cribbs give time, time!
I understand that he's upset and all. I've read that Mangini told his agents that the Browns would try to get a deal done by the end of the season. However, Mangini had the power at the time to say that, but now he doesn't. I'm not sure why Cribbs agents are pushing so hard RIGHT NOW for the Browns to give an offer, especially, like Pat said, when Holmgren just got on the job yesterday and he needs to decide on the current coaching staff and interview GM candidates. Does anyone know what the 1.4 million figure is? Is it 1.4 million TOTAL per year for the remainder of the 3 years left on his contract or an ADDITIONAL 1.4 million added to what he's already making now?
Pat:
If you saw the quote, Dawn Aponte told Cribbs agent that she spoke with Mike and that they (the Browns) were offering 1.4 million dollars. Secondly, if he was so busy with hiring a GM and deciding on Mangini then why didn't he tell Cribbs agent that? "Please wait a few days until I get this straightened out." But he didn't did he Pat? Let's see, two days on the job and he alienates our best player. Fantastic! But this isn't Holmgren's fault right Pat? I'm sure you'll find some way to blame Mangini for this too
Considering Holmgren got into town on Monday and it is now Thursday morning and he is trying to decide the fate of every coach, hire a GM, yada, yada, yada…the man has got an awful lot of stuff to settle quickly. Just the fact that he said he wants Cribbs here tells me he wants to do the right thing.
So today, after looking noble and worthy all season long, Josh Cribbs has managed to make himself look petty and foolish by making a stupid statement. Instead of having a little patience and allowing the dust to settle at the team headquarters, he issues a demand. His agent is tired of the lies because he was not called back Wednesday! Oh the horror of it all! Cribbs has waited 368 days since he was told by Savage that he would get a new contract! His carriage is about to turn back into a pumpkin!
So now Cribbs is going to clean out his locker…well the season was over last Sunday. Shouldn't he have done that by Tuesday?
I sell real estate. This is no different than buying property. The buyer makes an offer. It's always a low offer. The seller makes a counter offer. It's always a close to full price counter. Then they start talking turkey. They negotiate and find terms that both sides can live with. The best contracts are the ones where both sides feel like they have given more than they wanted to.
The sense of entitlement that Cribbs is showing is very unbecoming. I liked him much better when he was a humble guy who was patiently waiting for a new contract. Considering we are 9 months away from the 2010 football season, I wouldn't exactly call it an emergency to get this done before we know who our head coach will be or who our GM will be.
Good thing he's not negotiating with me. The way I see it is… what is Cribbs going to do? The Browns own his contract for the next 3 years. They won't trade him. Worst comes to worst they offered him a 400,000 pay raise and he turned it down. It's a great lesson for all the other guys under contract who want to renegotiate. Browns make the announcement we offered him a 40% pay raise and he turned it down. What dog pound guy is gonna fault the Browns for that?
You just know that Cribbs was thinking Devin Hester money while Chicago is wishing they could pawn Hester off on anybody right about now. But Cribbs is not a receiver. He's not a running back. He's not a quarter back. He's a tweener. He can do all those positions to an acceptable level but that's about it. He's a jack of all trades but a master of none. Except when it comes to kick offs and punt returns. He could probably get that up to 2 mil a year but that's the very top for a walk on from Kent State unless he masters the receiver position and takes over the #1 or 2 slot.
Well put, JBD. Cribbs' agents seem very amateur in the decision to take this public right now.
I'd certainly like to see Cribbs get a new contract signing bonus of 5 or more million, but if they're going to extend his contract beyond the remaining 3 years, 1.4 million sounds Ok for a kick returner. Yes, he's effective in the wildcat, but if the team had an offense that was at all effective, the team wouldn't need him in the wildcat.
I haven't found the details of what was offered (guaranteed, length, stipulations/incentives), but it sounds like the agent is painting a bleak picture and counting on public opinion. I wonder how public opinion will go over time. Right now, I sort of smile to think of him being fined every week for the next three years until he actually owes the Browns money!
I wonder how much of this was all Josh's idea and how much was his agent needling him? I think with the way he had conducted himself all season – and he could've been a real big jerk about things – this just all seemed a little out of left field to me.
And I'm tired of athletes using twitter to do this stuff. Maybe I would've 'tweeted' something like "Looking forward to sitting down w/Mike Holmgren and getting this hammered out."*
*Forgive me for just abbreviating 'with' — I still like to read full words.
Maybe the agent could wait until Holmgren finds his office….
Pat, I think Josh is getting bad advice 1. This fan base is Euphoric over The Big Show he has said to this point ALL the right things fans want to hear.2 The fans know he should get a reworked contract at this point he IS the Browns…but as a fan the Timing of this is in bad form…What is the hurry? Mike has at Least made an Offer ,like any other deal make a counter offer , keep it off the news , this time Josh might have hurt his case some.
Ck'd out the PD.. M K C's story already has 373 comments ..cavs story 15…the War Zero…Guess this IS Browns Town
Sorry Pat! Trying to get ya too 100K or better
JBD…….Well said!
Pat! Did ya see that H@@d!E Wearing crazy girl at McDonalds…..Hope Josh doesnt go MacCrazed!
Long Wayz to go to 100K
Alan must have Fainted when he heard the newz!!
Ditto, JBD
Pat,
If your man Holmgren has too much on his plate, why did he take the time to OK a lowball offer? Doesn't Cribbs deserve better?
I guess Bob LaMonte doesn't represent Cribbs.
Keith – yeah who needs the 6-point-whatever yards he gains everytime he carries the ball. If we had an effective offense I'm sure we would just scratch that.
Did you guys hear Holmgren was at some luncheon with Shaun Rogers and they passed without speaking, and now Rogers wants traded?… Wait… That's not right… I seem to be remembering something else with some other guy…
Point is, these things have a way of working themselves out. Back before 24 hour media and players having the ability to get their message out to the public themselves we probably would have never known about this. It's called a negotiation for a reason. I'm not overly worried yet.
And Pat couldn't you go back and use that same article you wrote about the Rogers-Mangini snafu and just sub out the names for this Cribbs thing? You've been complaining about how difficult Mangini has made the media's job, if Holmgren is going to come in and repeat the same things maybe it's an act of God or something making your job super-easy.
Can't wait until next week when he disrespects our hall of famers by removing or painting over something…
Josh deserves more money. The team wouldn't have score any touchdowns if he hadn't set them up with great field position. He makes great plays on kick offs as well. He has been a huge part of the wildcat. He might be the only player to hustle 100% of the time. I say pay the man. Pay him more than the offer he was given. He is the Cleveland Browns, and we need him to stay.
I'm not the Amazing Kreskin, but isn't this exactly what I said would happen? Jeez.
Let him sit out. Does his agent think Holmgren is like that desperate dunce Danny Ferry, and will take a top-secret CIA overnight flight to South America to bang on Cribbs' parents' door?
What a self-serving clown that Cribbs is. Trying to make Holmgren look like the bad guy from the get-go. All season with the phony "I'm loyal and I love management" quotes. So now instead of negotiating privately, as a real professional would do and should do, he and his agent are having guys like Pat posture for him. Can't wait until the PD's columnists hop on for a ride on that train.
dwhit, how many touches does Cribbs get a game? Who cares what his yards-per-carry are? Six yards? Big deal. The Wildcat is like Bactine, five times and it might work. More than that, it will fail. What's the difference between the Wildcat and a halfback screen? It's the NFL's Baskin-Robbins flavor-of-the-month. Last week it was Refrigerator Perry and every other fat guy plowing through the backfield. Next week it will be something else.
Granted it's not something we can run 25 times a game, but it seems like you're suggesting tossing out those 6 successful plays each game? That's insane… especially when you consider the fact that those plays could be even more successful if defenses had to worry about an actual passing game.
Yes, I'm tossing it out, dwhit. Betcha if the Browns ran receiver reverses instead of the Wildcat, they'd end up with the same amount of net yards. 30-35 yards a game? Who cares? It's a gimmick. Look at that Jets guy they recently stuck in there. He's running the Wildcat even better than Cribbs. So are the Jets now supposed to open up the vault?
If Holmgren wants to be tough about it, he could yell "Mr. Fumbleitis!" and hang up the phone.
I'll see your Jets example and raise you the Dolphins.
Also I would argue that the Browns this season didn't have any other "type" of play that we could run 5 times a game and average 6 yards each time on. You can't just throw out an effective way to gain yardage. 30 yards is 3 first downs. It keeps drives moving. It's important.
The Dolphins? One team?
The Wildcat is already past tense, dwhit. Towards the end of the year, teams were already moving away from it. It's the Hula Hoop.
He's already one of the highest paid special teams players in the league. He got himself a nice guaranteed signing bonus to sign the existing contract. The rejected offer is quite fair, and it's not "lowball" by any stretch of the imagination. Cribbs and his agent are just playing to the media's and fans' emotions and passions. He's a good spot player on a really bad team who looks a heckuva lot better and far more valuable than he really is because of it. The Poor Man's Greg Pruitt Effect.
I'm always amazed at fans that get so involved in stewardship of a team's finances. Guess what – the Browns aren't a publicly held company. You don't own a piece of that team. If Cribbs gets less, you don't get more. If you're really interested in seeing a winning team on the field, why wouldn't you want Cribbs to be a happy warrior and get every penny he can? Is it because you're more bitter about athlete's salaries than you are anxious to see winning football?
Give him part ownership of the team and season tickets to the Aston Villa games. Throw in a premium subscription to First and Ten. I'll still be a working stiff regardless of how much money he gets. And Lerner will still be a very wealthy man.
cribbs and his money???? i don't give a flying —-. that's between the browns and cribbs + agent. obviously most of the people crying about cribbs not getting paid haven't bought anything valuable in their lives or got screwed because they have no idea how to bargain. it's how the game is played. this deal will get done.
comparing this to mangini's fiasco is reaching for straws. when holmgren alienates the majority of the team, divides the front office and requires the owner to hire a $10 million dollar babysitter then you can make that argument.
Disagree, towards the end of the year actually more teams were using the wildcat more often. It's like moving from the horse and buggy to the automobile.
*This message was written Alan T style which incorporates making points without any real backup and insisting that people agree just because you said so, in addition to using analogies that don't necessarily fit. Use of a link that sends readers to a lame picture is optional.
Terje,
I'm not at all saying it's anything similar to the entire Mangini fiasco. I just thought it was slightly humorous that upon his hire Mangini nearly immediately alienated who many considered to be our best player and almost the same thing has now happened (granted in a different, much more acceptable way)
Also, note that I never commented on if Holmgren or Cribbs is in the right here. It's a contract negotiation, I don't really care and feel like this is what happens in negotiations more times than not.
My point is just that the argument that the Browns should/could discontinue using an effective part of their offense baffles me and does not compute.
dwhit, it's negotiations. we've both seen it dozens of times before. most recently, with varajao who took ferry for every dime he could get. cribbs will be on the browns next year.
Thanks for the style points, dwhit. Appreciate it. Perhaps now you will do a critique of Pat's haughty usage of hyphens within a word where it would not ordinarily belong, but is otherwise used for literary effect. It's shameful the way Pat does that. I'm sure you'll agree, dwhit. S-h-a-m-e-f-u-l.
C'mon, it's not like we're talking about a "playmaker" like Braylon Edwards. Cribbs is a special teams guy. When a bottle of water cost you $1701, you need a $40 million ($17 million guaranteed) contract.
You are right, terje. There is no comparison between a guy not recognizing a player at a rubber chicken event and absolutely nothing coming of it, and another guy insulting the team's best player to the point that that player states his days with the team are over.
nothing came of it larry? how about the near destruction of the franchise resulting in lerner hiring a guy at $10 mil per to clean up the s—storm left behind by your boyfriend?
cribbs will be on the team next year. this contract stuff is a drama for fools.
What does one thing have to do with the other, Brian D.? Ordinary folks are so desperate for something to cheer for, they'll cry and scream if Holmgren doesn't tell Lerner to agree to buy Cribbs and his wife the Playboy Mansion and personally paint her toenails. Cribbs is just another athlete/diva.
i'm in complete agreement with terje above. it's a negotiation. these things have a way of working themselves out.
Alan, just stating the facts…an undrafted free agent is no where's near as valuable as the #3 overall pick in the draft.
Who gives a crap when and where anybody was drafted or not drafted years ago? You don't pay a spot special teams guy like a starting wide receiver. Cribbs wants to be the highest paid special teams guy in league history. Joey Belle in brown pants. Perhaps Cribbs will throw a football at a fan.
dwhit, The 6 yards a carry isn't "each" time. It is an average. It's a great average, granted — but you can get the average by carries of 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 36 = a 6 yard average and 5 drives that have stalled and end in punts. Now, granted, with the Browns, if they get ONE touchdown in a half (or even a game) everyone in northern Ohio is in some kind of Nirvana haze of adoration (myself included — as Pat has said, in northern Ohio we get excited if the Browns win 5 games in only 1 season!!) … BUT, if we had a scheme (like a QB who could complete 67% of his passes or a runner who didn't tiptoe into the line for 1 yard 3 times before rushing for a first down) where the team wouldn't have to rely on Cribbs's 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 36 to hope to score 10 whole points in a game!
Another matter, and this isn't a contradiction because on kickoff returns especially, an average doesn't usually figure in a lot of 0's (more like a 20 yard average might be returns of 15 and 25 yards and 10 and 30 yards), if Cribbs isn't returning kicks (and he's exciting!), how much will the average starting field position change? Would it be only 5 yards? If so, shouldn't he be paid for that 5 yards and not 20 more yards … and wouldn't spending the money on offense somewhere possibly pay off better in the long run?
I'd like him to be paid, but not Hester money which Hester hasn't earned and can't possibly.
Name one player the Browns can ill-afford to lose. Josh Cribbs. No one in NFL history has returned more kicks for TDs. He runs back kicks, often makes the first tackle on kickoffs, plays receiver, quarterback, running back, slot back, and there's talk of using him as safety. Is there ONE single Browns offensive player you'd rather have instead of Josh Cribbs?
If your answer is no, then we must assume he is the BEST player on offense. And it goes without saying, there's no one on defense or special teams better.
So he's our BEST PLAYER. He's also THE fan favorite, and does so much for the community. Time to step up, cut the fat off the roster, and pay Cribbs a respectable sum. At least $3-mil per season. What's so hard to figure out?
Sorrry alan, if you don't believe that "draft position is an irrefutable indication of talent", you don't know anything.
Marc, $3 million per season for a special teams guy? That would be like paying Zydrunas Ilgauskas $11.5 million per season plus a 15% trade kicker. That's so insane, nobody will ever do that!
And precisely what does Cribbs "do for the community?" Little old ladies won't be able to cross the street if Josh isn't around, I suppose.
And who cares if he's the best offensive player on a bad offense. Five runs a game for 30 yards. Defenses only towards the end of the NFL season learned how to defend the Wildcat, which is why teams stopped using it except for holidays and special occasions. If Cribbs is the best offensive player during Holmgren's regime, then the Lerner Family stubbed its collective toe again.
You don't pay a guy for what he did or didn't do in the past, you pay a guy for what he's going to do in the future. I don't care if they give Cribbs a zillion dollars in his paycheck every other week, but these arguments to pay him money completely out of line for somebody who is realistically nothing more than a special teams specialist are totally ridiculous.
I like Cribbs, too, but why would any Browns fan want Holmgren to sign him for any more than the minimum necessary? Whether he likes it or not, Cribbs is under contract for three more years, and under the salary cap every additional dollar the team spends on Cribbs reduces the amount the Browns have available to sign free agents and draft picks. Shouldn't we all want the team to keep Cribbs for the least amount possible?
Keith,
You make a fair point. I do not agree that Cribbs gained 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 36 on his carries this year (we need a new stat, median yards per carry!) but understand your point. Still, I think he is more valuable than you seem to as a 5-times a game type weapon regardless of the offense, but I don't know that we can do much but agree to disagree there.
Marc,
Joe Thomas.
Also it doesn't matter if he's our best player today or not, if we pay him like an offensive superstar while he's not it will affect our ability to sign offensive superstar's in the future (whether as an FA or a guy we eventually draft). In addition, fan favorite, community service, etc. etc. makes absolutely no difference when assessing someone's value at winning football games.
Sean's comment is the most well-reasoned comment I've read.
Earth to Cribbs: You're on the hook for three more years. Being holed up in the house with the Mrs. during a job holdout is usually counter-productive to the marriage. Overseas isn't an option. You may also want to pass that message on to your agent. Surprisingly enough, that "football" they play over there isn't the same game. Ask Randy, he'll happily describe the different shape of the Europeans' balls for you.
Of course it will probably work out and Cribbs is simply jockeying for a place in line under the new czar. The interesting aspect of this story is the press' 180. If Mangini were still in charge you can bet your last dollar Pat would be using this demand coming so close to the end of the season as evidence showing what a mess the franchise is in. Now it's back to the same pro-management apologia we've been getting in regard to the Cavs and Indians for years.
I'm not sure what terje's take would have been but I'm sure it would have something to do with the poor man's breasts. It's Mommy and Daddy issues all rolled into one.
Poor man's breasts?
hey josh no one has ever got a new deal by going through the media ? how dumm is your agent for doing that is he the same one that got you your current deal ? take control of this and fire your agent.
Josh is showing a lot of immaturity in taking this issue to the streets. I agree the Browns received value well in excess of what they paid given the performances rendered by Josh however, Josh agreed to a salary and signed a contract in testimony to that agreement. Should the Browns pay him a bonus? YES! It is only right. Should they re-open every contract for a player that has second thoughts about what he signed up for? NO! HELL NO! This is like having Lebron making weekly statements that unless this or that happens, he is going to NY or somewhere else. Instead, he is being coy and that is OK. Nothing wrong with sending a subtle message with a "wink". Josh is whining and stomping his feet, which is NOT in the character of a great professional athlete.
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