1) There are questions that must be answered about Mike Holmgren — who was in Berea Monday and Tuesday to talk to the Browns about taking over their head-of-football job — but the big picture to me is very, very positive. In fact, I'm both feet in and firmly on board and whatever mixed metaphor you wish to read if Randy Lerner pulls this off. He brings, in my mind, some very legitimate and real credibility to the Browns the day he's hired.
2) Not that Holmgren's work in Seattle was perfect. But he knows football, having been around it his entire life. He coached 17 years, went to the playoffs 12 times. He went to three Super Bowls, and took Seattle to the playoffs six times. Geez … where do you sign up? Every quarterback he's worked with has improved. And… he's worked with winners, including a real winner in Ron Wolf. Best as I can tell, Holmgren gets it. From what I've seen, Holmgren is not in it to satisfy his ego, obtain power or gain personal reward. He's in it to win.
3) Holmgren would have to prove he can judge, scout and choose talent, because there were issues in Seattle. But there are two factors that seem to lean to the positive end of things if he takes over. Holmgren would be doing one job, not two. And, if the Miami Dolphins model is followed, he would be hiring a GM as well. Which means there would be another layer of responsibility in the building, which means more people contributing to what we hope would be smart decisions. Holmgren's role, should he choose to accept it, would be to guide the ship.
4) Holmgren would also decide on the future of Eric Mangini. There would be input from owner Randy Lerner, but Lerner would not overrule a guy he brings in to run his football operations. For one, Lerner does not interfere. He goes out of his way not to interfere. For two, what sense would it make for an owner to spend a ton of money on a leader of football and then not let the leader of football be the leader of football.
5) It well could be that Holmgren would want to give Mangini another year. He has gone on record saying a coach deserves more than one year. But he also said this on Seattle radio station KJR: "As a management person, you might have to make . . . a very difficult decision that way, if in your opinion you think it's absolutely going in the wrong direction. But those situations are really few and far between." Interpret it as you will.
6) This should put to rest all the rumblings that were emanating (like that word? … emanating … e-m-a- … never mind) from Berea that because the Browns beat Pittsburgh Mangini's job was safe for another year. That win over the Steelers was the best win a 1-and-11 team could have. It made the Browns 2-and-11.
7) That win — and yes, it was a good win — does not change the reality that this season has been a mess of poor communication, of a forced bus trip for rookies and long practices for angry veterans, of poor second-halves and quirky on-field decisions like the timeouts against Detroit and Cincinnati. There has been clock mismanagement, message mismanagement and player mismanagement (see Quinn, Brady). There have been injuries during opportunity periods, hidden starting quarterbacks and rookies inactive for extended and mysterious periods of time. There has been improvement and growth lately, and the Pittsburgh game was a good one. But overall it's been a mess, and it doesn't make sense to hang your hats on two wins in terrible and equalizing weather against Buffalo and Pittsburgh when the Browns quarterbacks completed two and six passes.
8) Some would say that a coach deserves more than one season to prove himself, and that's a valid point of view. I disagree in this case, but I respect the point of view. Too, Lerner may want to give the coach he hired last January another year to sort things out, or to see if he can sort things out. Mangini has worked extremely hard, and he cares. And some of the principles he's enacted are the right ones. He may string some wins together here at the end of the year. But let the new leader of football make the decision.
9) For those who say changing the coach is starting over one more time and that’s no good, I'd have to say this: I agree. But I also ask: Where does a team go when it's 2-11? It has to start from the bottom whether it's a new coach, old coach or Foghorn Leghorn as coach. All we've heard to this point is about the process and the shared vision and all that claptrap garbage we've heard for 11 years. And all we're going to hear is the late-season effort means so much. I'd love to be wrong about this, you know. Maybe Mangini stays and wins eight games next season and I have to eat the bottom of my old Chuck Taylors. Could happen, though I don't see it. But if Holmgren is making the call I believe the Browns will be well served.
10) People always ask about Lerner and what he's like. I say I like him, he's a good guy, I don't always agree with him but I respect him. Ask around the league and you'll learn that he's a very liked guy. I know of one guy last year who decried not coming to Cleveland precisely because he respected Lerner so much. The relevance? This could help the Browns in this cause. Because when they talk to him, people like the owner and want to work for him.
And, because it's the Browns … a bonus 11 …
11) It sure seems like Josh Cribbs has earned that new contract.
Three and Out
Dear Pat,
I decided to chime in on whether Eric Mangini deserves another year – it is my humble opinion that any coach who beats the Steelers in his first year deserves Year 2. Complain about the practices, complain about the Berea murals, complain about the mishandling of Kokinis, and complain about the player moves all you want, but just remember – Cleveland beat Pittsburgh. It’s like OSU beating Michigan. We should be dancing in the streets!
Mangini has a .500 record against Pittsburgh. Rome Crennel can’t say that. Terry Robiskie can’t say that. Butch Davis can’t say that. Chris Palmer can’t say that. Eric Mangini can. Enough said. Give Mangini and the crew another year.
James P. Hogan
Indianapolis, Ind.
Dear James,
I like you, I appreciate your constantly writing and reading …
But it's beyond me how anyone who watches Peyton Manning and the Colts year after year can justify one more year based on one stinking game that wasn't even that well played.
Have you forgot …
Minnesota 34, Cleveland 20
Denver 27, Cleveland 6
Baltimore 34, Cleveland 3
Pittsburgh 27, Cleveland 14
Green Bay 31, Cleveland 3
Chicago 30, Cleveland 6 (Chicago!)
Detroit 38, Cleveland 37 (Detroit!)
Baltimore 16, Cleveland 0
But that's what great about America.
We have the right to be wrong. Me included.
By the way … Chris Palmer can say he was .500 against Pittsburgh. Beat them in Pittsburgh in 1999 and beat them in Cleveland in 2000.
Pat
Dear Pat,
It seems that the last month the Browns have been playing better due to effort alone! My question is why? My friends and my uninformed theory (developed in conjunction with Miller Lite) is that Eric Mangini has eased up and started treating them as men and not kindergarteners.
Your thoughts?
Saurabh Gupta
Dear Saurabh,
My first thought is that Labatt Blue is made from all natural ingredients and tastes much better. In my house we have two kinds of beer: Labatt Blue, and Labatt Blue (and only because true Guinness is not available).
My second thought is I don't know the reason for the change, other than guys trying and Pittsburgh playing bad football and San Diego cashing it in the fourth quarter.
I've said this before and I'll say it again: NFL players rarely cash it in. They almost always play hard, for themselves and for each other.
The one thing I'll never understand is how the defense has improved the more players have gotten hurt. Odd.
Dear Pat,
How is it that the bars in Ireland have a tap system that allows Guinness to pour correctly, but in the States I have been to exactly ONE bar, ever (downtown in Manhattan), that could manage this feat properly? Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. Might it be the hard-wired patience of the native Irish Bartender? Is this a skill one can ever hope to replicate? In one's lifetime?
Bob Kusyk
Charlottesville, Va. (a great home, but without a bar that pours a proper Guinness)
Dear Bob,
Yes, you wrote a lengthy letter, touching on many Browns topics. But to be honest, none seemed as pertinent or important as the first question you raised.
I have actually found a bar in Cleveland, called Stone Mad I believe, on West 65th north of Detroit. It pours as fine a Guinness as you'll find.
Not like in Ireland, mind you. But tasty.
(Want to be recognized in “Three and Out”? It’s a rare treat. Comment here or send an e-mail to pmcmanamon@thebeaconjournal.com, and put “First and 10” in the subject line.)
I'm probably wrong, but this Holmgren thing smells like a typical NBA free agent. Pretend to be interested in Cleveland to beef up your pay elsewhere.
Alan,
there is probably truth in what you wrote, but who would not want to go work for an owner that lets you do whatever you want to do…like make Salma Hayek the head cheerleader. I just thought of an old joke…
Alan, You say it cynically, but it well could be a matter of Lerner's raised this position in conversation around those associated, past and present, with the NFL (and so even Seattle is talking about such a position and Holmgren being a natural) and Holmgren, flattered, and maybe thinking a czar's position is maybe right for him at his age … and so is talking to Lerner and expects to talk to Seattle and he's just exploring it all about now. If he lives in Seattle and is already responsible for some of the people in their organization, I'd imagine they have the inside track, when all is said and done — but the conversation in Cleveland (the process, if you will) has begun, anyway ….
Keith, I know posturing when I see it. His family lives in Seattle. He still has a weekly radio show in Seattle. He likes to drive a motorcycle year-round. So why would a guy want to come to Cleveland, of all places? For the casino and the fresh air? Something smells fishy, and it's not just the saltwater leaking from Salma Hayek's shirt.
But I could be wrong.
alan is there any chance that you are related to scrooge? Always negative, better a saltwater leak than the vile comments that you always spout from your keyboard.
Solomon, I live in the real world. Which might explain your implant fetish.
your a sad sack. always complaining about the most current news from Berea.
are you implying that implants are a bad thing? Well I better inform mother and the thousands of women that have lost their breast to cancer that their prosthetics are from some fantasy land. Oh and lets not forget the veterans and their "fantasy" arms and legs. Yes, I have a fake tooth.
alan you are such an idiot, stop thinking with your stick.
People … people … people …
Can we all just get along?
You have a fake tooth? Do you have breast implants in your mouth, too? Because your mouth always seems to be full of something.
OK, what would you prefer to not complain about from Berea? I do like the facade in the front of the offices. That's kind of nice. I like glass in architecture.
I like Salma Hayek's curvy legs ….
Speaking of Selma Hayek, I read that Adriana Lima had a baby. Sorry for you, Pat.
On the other hand, I haven't seen her linked with Tiger Woods yet
Sure you can whine and pout about whatever you want, but because you do it here on a public forum expect a reaction to it. Negative comments attract a negative reaction, its that simple.
She'll do what because I have a fake tooth? I expect more from you, you seem like an intelligent person. I'm very disappointed in your 4:12 comment.
My 4:12 comment? That must be your idea of a biblical reference. I get the sense you're one of those guys that attends sporting events wearing a rainbow wig and holds up a big sign that says "SOLOMON 4:12." Have you ever parachuted into the ring during a championship fight?
That was bit better, but you lack technique. Maybe with some training you can be comical, but you'll never be funny.
Let me take you by the hand and point things out to you. First, beside your name is a date and time. For example your most recent post occurred at 5:34 pm on Dec 15, 2009. You made a weak refence about me at sporting events or something. I read your post and it sadden me, you need help. For fifty bucks I be your "best" friend. Do you have any friends? Just fifty bucks, think about it.
Jeff Faine said on the radio Sunday that NFL players do cash it in and he's been on teams that have. I doubt he was talking about the 2007 Saints and he said it wasn't the Bucs.
Someone needs to unleash hell on 'pilot', anyone that dumb had damn well better not be driving airplanes.
It's 9:51 and Alan is still a complete dimwitted tool.
Pat
You wading through all the off-topic comments to be reading this?
My take on the Holgren situation and I wish you would comment on it in your blog at some point.
Holgren has a great resume. He might be a great hire. But I won't be on board, for one reason… There has been no comprehensive search. The biggest failing of the Mangini hiring was that he was the first person Lerner fell in love with. This Holmgren situation smells exactly the same.
If Lerner brings in 5-10 guys for 2-day periods like Holmgren is doing now, and then he chooses Holmgren I will be on board fully. If Holmgren is the only guy brought in… I'll be skeptical for a long time.
How a successful businessman like Lerner doesnt know to run a comprehensive search is beyond me.
Comment for me Pat… you say you are on board if Holmgren gets hired. Well… then tell me why nobody else even needed to be interviewed?
Thanks
You made a good point about questioning who else is available for the job of "football czar" for the Cleveland Browns. You also have to consider the "Rooney Rule". Can the Browns ask the Ravens permission to interview Ozzie Newsome as a minority applicant for the job. On second thought, the last two guys hired from the Ravens were fired.
I don't know….I think I prefer pilot to alan.
His comments make more sense.
If it wasn't a pure posturing ploy, then why would Holmgren and his agent make an absolute point to be seen eating dinner in public with Lerner? Holmgren probably also had a speaker phone sitting next to him, just so Paul Allen and Allen's underling could hear Lerner's munching and crunching of his Cobb salad as proof that they were talking to him personally. What kind of a pretentious name is "Fahrenheit" for a restaurant anyway?
Please, Pat. Get that disgrace of a person, Alan, off this website. Don't make us go over your head.
A disgrace? Joyce, I know you're offended when people mock Notre Dame, but you're also offended if Randy Lerner eats a Cobb salad? Wow. I never knew you could get so emotional over lettuce.
no, I'm just offended by you! I agree with what you say a lot of times, just not how you say it. Save the America the free speech. I work in a hospital setting, see implants and disease every day….and I am a cancer survivor. I am a very sarcastic person, so I rather enjoy some of your stuff; however, there is a thin line between being sarcastic and being cruel. You need to ask yourself that question once in a while. My guess is that you look in the mirror and like what's looking back at you. Too bad…..sometimes. And ND has absolutely nothing to do with it. Goodnight.
did i just walk in on something?
How bad has it gotten ..When we welcome an ex-coach coming to be the SAVIOR of this entertainment Franchise….because the current and former Rulers treated it like there own surfdom ….or country club? They beat a very bad ( yes bad) Steeler team that has given up…..the play calling was still awful , and if the coach was that well liked would not the team surround him to say thanks for great play calling…..these guys looked like they won this game for self pride not the staff …lets see the staff not foul things up in KC and win a game…
Holmgren is a great coach not GM…. He asking for more money than any GM in history at a job he has never done well… I say keep Mangini one more year, I am sick of blowing things up and he is showing progress regardless of Pat's anti Mnagini agenda.
I was convinced that Holmgren was playing the Browns but if his agent is in town with him it has to be pretty serious. Browns have to remember, as bad as we are, that we are the shoppers in this scenario. As for Mangini, the jury is still out and he has three games left to prove that he can be the guy. I know that the last three games are not top shelf teams but I am willing to see how it plays out. I would love to see the Browns play well enough that any new GM or Csar has to take Mangini very seriously for another shot at this.
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I am so sick of little sissies whining about taking a bus ride, or "practicing to long". Jamal Lewis could have practiced for only 10 minutes and it wouldn't have helped his tip toeing pansy but. This team was horrible, they are lucky the coaches didn't make them go through 2 a days during the week. If Romeo was coaching the same players that were on the field last thursday agaisnt the Steelers, The Browns would have been destroyed and anyone with a brain knows that. What was Romeo's record agaisnt the Steelers?? Oh, thats right he was just trying to win A game. These are spoiled professional athletes, a bus ride or a 2 and a half hour practice really shouldn't be that big of an issue.
One thing you have to give Randy Lerner and Dan Gilbert credit for – they're not afraid to spend a buck. Wish I could say the same for the Dolans.
Joyce,
I am very sorry to have offended you. I will be mindful of others during this time of great stress for both our favorite team, the Browns, and people planning holiday get-togethers. Sike! You suck. Don't like me, then don't read me!
Joyce, just an FYI, that 1:21 pm comment ain't mine. It's one of my doppelgangers. Granted, my doppelganger does have a point, albeit I would have worded it differently. For example, I've never used the word "Sike!" in my entire life.
And Chris Hoover, that bus ride was bogus. Those weren't "professional athletes" yet, they were 19 kids working and praying for an NFL job, making the amount they pay guys for training camp. It's not much, and most of those kids that were in that bus are now either out of work, or working at $25,000 – $30,000 a year jobs like any other regular kid out there. Mangini forced them to ride 20 hours round-trip in a bus. Why? To become camp counselors for 800 children at his annual football camp. What kind of baloney is that? The Lewis thing is another story.
Doesn't the Rooney Rule cover all senior-management interviews? What is Ozzie Newsome's position with the Ravens? Can he be a candidate for the Football Operations President that Holmgren is applying for also? The Detroit Lions were fined 200,000 dollars for not interviewing a minority for the HC position a few years back.
If they hire Holmgren for the football "czar", they still need a GM and a HC, who would fit within Holmgren's west-coast style coaching? The first person I think of is Gruden as HC, but I draw a blank when I consider a GM.
I do not understand all of the celebrating after the Brown's beat the Steelers. The previous two weeks the Steeler's had lost to Kansas City & Oakland, teams every bit as bad as Cleveland. How that could save Mangini's job is beyond me?
Oakland and KC gave up a ton of points and won in shoot outs….
we crsuhed them!!!!!!! 6 points and 8 sacks
I'm not sold on Mike Holmgren. What did he do in Seattle that would merit the title of "czar" or even GM of the Browns? If I recall……. his tenure there wasn't anything to write home about. He was just a very good coach (at one time), that is now past his prime. Sure, bringing in a big name such as Holmgren may add credibility to the Browns……. but that doesn't necessarily mean wins.
At one time, we also had Carmen Policy and Dwight Clark…..thay also were "big name guys", had previous experience with a winning organization, and were supposed to have the experience to lead the Browns……. Look how that turned out.
I agree that some of the things during Mangini's first year could have been done a little differently……. but give the guy a chance. Rome wasn't built in a day and neither will the Browns. Chuck Noll at Pittsburgh and Jimmy Johnson at Dallas are prime examlpes……. poor first years…… but look what happened later.
Mangini has enough football smarts and still has the fire that a lot of older coaches looking to come back and run a team do not….. Shannahan, Holmgren, Cowher etc.
You can't get all of the players you want to implement your system in just one year. Who wants to go through another year of cleaning house, with the same results under a leader that hasn't really proven anything except that he's was an above average coach……. (key words: WAS and COACH.)
Give Mangini one more year. He has the team working together, many young players contributing (developing from the practice squad), and has gotten rid of many of the players that were just picking up paychecks.
I haven't read one thing yet about Holmgren that tells me he is fully capable of running a football organization.
Hey Pat…Enjoyed your article as always…I would like to see Holmgren as VP of Operations and a strong talent evaluator as GM. (Like Ron Wolf maybe. If not GM then in a strong talent consultant role. He did already work with Holmgren in Green Bay after all.) I think most Browns fans would agree that one of the major keys to turning this franchise around would be a great talent evaluator. Hey, we Browns fans can dream can't we?
I want to express my thoughts on that bus ride …. It's indicative of a person (Mangini) who is clueless. It may even be the most important thing wrong that Mangini's done. His defense was that it was voluntary. So, he obviously has no clue that none of the rookies could say no. Why? Or what does it mean here to be clueless. It means he is so self-absorbed that he is incapable of imagining what anyone else, such as a person he's speaking to or trying to coach, might be thinking, which also means he is mentally incapable of knowing when he is getting through to another person. He may have ridden the bus back, but he didn't ride it there … because, again, he cannot imagine anyone else in the universe besides himself. That everyone should have been able to guess by his not giving a "Hey, how's it going?" to Rogers when he crossed paths with him. And that he repeats the behavior only proves it.
Has everyone noticed how Mangini's attitude has changed in his press conferences? He is no longer showing us an air of confidence, but rather of a meek and humble person. I believe this season has impacted him far more than he ever, ever thought it would and he is now scrambling for his football career.
What really bothers me about this is that I am enjoying it. I am enjoying watching him squirm and stutter, searching for words and something to say without saying anything.
When he was hired, I got on board and tried to give him a chance. I went to training camp, but something was not right. I was feeling uncomfortable with what I was seeing and hearing. Then, the season began and I realized why I was feeling uncomfortable.
Now, we are witnessing the emporer with no clothes.