I've heard it opined quite a bit lately that tonight's Browns-Steelers game could determine the fate of coach Eric Mangini.
Which doesn't add up.
It actually seems that tonight's game might be no more relevant to his future than the game against Green Bay or the stirring win over Buffalo.
Because judging anyone on one game is simply silly. A coach produces a body of work, and Mangini has providd plenty on which to judge this this year. Judging him on one game implies that the other stuff does not matter.
One game — win or lose — does not erase a season's worth of work that has the Browns at 1-11 and ranked near the bottom of every statistical category offensively and defensively.
A 2-11 record is somehow going to make everything that has happened more palatable?
Please.
Mangini's future will be decided after the season, and all signs point to team owner Randy Lerner wanting the new person he hires to make the determination on the coach's future.
If that's true then it's my guess he (Mangini) does not have a future in Cleveland.
Because it seems illogical to me that a new director of football would not want to hire his own coach.
And it seems equally illogical to me that Mangini would want his future in the hands of someone brought in above him who is going to take away some of his power and responsibility. The new guy is going to decide the roster, have greater input on player personnel and … well … run football. These are some of the things Mangini does now. Why would he want his future in the hands of someone who is taking that from him?
Either way — the new guy wants his own coach, and the old coach won't like his future in the hands of a new boss — the situation seems to clearly point to Mangini's future clearly being in question.
No matter what happens in tonight's game against Pittsburgh.
Nice to hear you say that, Pat, but I'm not sure I believe it. Lerner has made so many decisions that defy belief that I am not certain he is as smart as you give him credit for being. Certainly the Butch Davis and Romeo/Phil contract extensions were beyond stupid, totally unnecessary and, in my mind, no less idiotic than judging Mangini on one game alone.
Basically, it comes to down to will Randy Lerner hire a guy who wants to fire Mangini in the first place? Obviously the new czar/GM/dictator will have input, but that input will likely be made clear in the interview process. Then Lerner will have to decide whether or not to hire one of the many people tell him that Mangini must go, or to hire the one mildly retarded guy who wants to keep him.
Right now I say that it is 50/50 which way Lerner will go, and tonight's game will probably push him to at least 75/25 one way or the other. That is how little respect I have for Lerner; a man who has obviously acted in the past more from emotional response than from logic and intellectual examination.
Yes, it would be silly, as you say at the top, but has not Randy Lerner proven himself to be silly over and over again? If we expect him to change now, who is the fool–us or him?
But thanks for this post, because so many others in town are positing that this game will determine Mangini's future, and they are doing so without judgment; as if they think it's completely normal to put all your egg in one basket made in Pittsburgh.
I agree Pat. Tonights game should not determine the fate of Mangini. Wait until the end of the season and then get rid of him!
What Pat is saying is true in regular business — and I can't see it isn't more so with the egos both involved and necessary to be successful in professional sports.
A boss comes in — whether it was Mangini when he did or the one who will be brought in to be over him — and the one thing that new boss doesn't want to hear (and anyone saying it is immediately expendable) is "this is the way we do things/have done things/operate" … or start talking about "the process" that's in place. And, the one thing every boss has figured out is that the people he hires will be loyal to him and do the job as he explains it to them. That doesn't mean a good boss can't win people over — but it does mean that a boss going in knows that all he has to do to immediately implement his program is hire all new people and tell them what the job is without anyone contradicting him with the way things used to be.
I can't see that anybody who has their own concept of how to operate a football franchise will keep Mangini — and anyone who takes the job on the condition Mangini stays is, in truth, accepting a condition that means Mangini can have them fired, too!
No, but a nationally-televised game in front of an orange stadium (empty seats, not fans in coveralls), except the Steeler fans, might be an indication of how well this system has turned out and how it has hit the pockets of the franchise.
If a win tonight saves his job, we need to hold an intervention and get the folks making the decisions into rehab pronto.
PS: who was the genius who scheduled a Thursday night game in Cleveland in December?
Personally, I'm loving a night game in December. Especially since I won't be there. But watching a game in the freezing cold and blizzard conditions is a ton of fun. Sometimes guys get so cold that one hit shatters them into a million pieces; sort of like the second Terminator.
Keith, you are right when you say that someone of substance coming in will likely not accept Mangini being foisted upon him. But that is why I am not certain Lerner will hire someone of substance. Every report I read, from wide and varied sources, says that Lerner is looking for someone who will tell him what he wants to hear: namely that Mangini can stay.
He might just keep going down the ladder until he gets low enough to find that person.
Mangini stinks. Anyone with a clue knows he should be fired. If you are a Browns fan who wants to see him fired, state your displeasure like I do each day. Call them and voice it. Tell them you want to leave a message when they answer. It's 441-891-5000. I know someone who is in the front office and he said if we raise enough stink, Mangini won't be back. I'm going to do my part.
Clint: its 440-891-5000. The Fan Squad has been around for a couple seasons now.
Please, you already know that the Czar will be Kosar, it just hasn't been made official. Nobody wants to work for Lerner/Cleveland Browns.
Pat, one thing I thought regarding Lerner and his short term decision making process that I would like your input on has to do with Mo Carthon. Think about this:
Following Romeo's first season everyone (and I mean EVERYONE) felt Carthon had to go. His offense made Dabol's look complex. But the Browns did not fire Carthon, deciding instead to see what happened in year two.
So, year two comes around and the offense was just abysmal again, and even more so than the previous year it was apparent to everyone (EVERYONE) that Carthon had to go. So, the Browns went into the bye week with everyone believing that Carthon would be fired, because that is generally the week to make such a move.
So, what happened? The Browns did not fire Carthon, and then, following one more dismal game, they go ahead and fire him the very next week.
Because of the bye week situation, there is no doubt that Lerner made that move based on what happened in that one game after the bye. There is no other explanation. Had the Browns won that week, or lost with a solid offensive performance, there is no doubt that Carthon would have stayed on at least another week. Maybe he is then fired the next week anyway, but even in that scenario the Browns would have been making a decision not based on all the accumulated evidence, but rather on what happened in that last week.
That pattern has repeated itself, to large and small degrees, over and over again. Certainly the contract extensions were based on success in one season, rather than from judging those coaches body's of work. The Phil Savage firing and un-firing was done after a very small amount of time, too, with Lerner deciding in the course of just a few days to fire Savage, then to re-hire Savage and fire John Collins instead. There are many more examples, but how many of these unfathomal decisions do we really need to examine to figure out that Lerner isn't playing with a full deck?
So, Randy Lerner has definitely and definitively shown in the past that he will make important decisions based on extremely small amounts evidence, and that he will then change his mind literally in the space of hours; going so far as to discount much larger amounts of evidence if it contradicts what Lerner sees most recently, or if it goes against what Lerner wants to do.
What is your take on the Carthon situation, Pat, and how that fubar reasoning relates to the Mangini decision? And what about the wishy-washiness of the Savage firing, and how that relates to Lerner's decision making? And please understand that I'm not talking about what a competent football czar would do, but rather whether or not Lerner will even hire a competent guy if that guy's plan doesn't mesh with Lerner's desire to keep Mangini.
I think one of the problems in the Carthon situation was Crennel would not fire the guy until he was told he no longer had any say in the matter.
So what happened in that one week that they took the decision away from Romeo? The point is the same.
florio's mysterious sources claim that mangini is toast. he's hit on a ton of these berea dramas. let's hope this one is true.
Being brought in and inserted over someone always has it's difficulties. If you need a recent example one needs to look no farther than George Kokinis. He is a perfect example of the pitfalls one faces when the new sheriff comes to town and the main guy under him has been there longer.
I do not envision a quiet guy being brought in that will play the GM game like George Kokinis did. And while Mangini would be a handfull to manage, it could be done. But is it likely? Common sense tells me no.
Then on the other hand we ARE talking about the Cleveland Browns. In my mind there is only one football czar who may not object to stepping in over Mangini and who Mangini might actually do as he was told. That guy is the Tuna. Mangini worked under him before and perhaps those bridges haven't been burned?
Speaking as a guy who was brought in as a GM in a functioning business, over people who were there a lot longer, who felt they were more qualified…Mangini is a goner. Dealing with the normal pressure of the organization is a full time job. Dealing with additional pressure of foot dragging, questioning decisions, different motives…you just bring in your own guys.
So the team was blown up in 2009…you can only go up or stay the same. The Detroit Lions were the only team to go 0-16. How much better is 2-14 or 4-12? Not much. And do we really want the #1 pick? #6 or #7 will do just fine on a team that is lacking so many things. They need o linemen and we all know how they hate burning up that top pick on an unsexy lineman. We need to stay away from flash players that high and go with the sure thing. We can pick up a free agent QB like a Charlie Batch who can sit on the sidelines or step in to play. And with all the other needs it would be like putting a dragster engine in a go-kart to pick another QB.
The chance of Mangini staying are 20%. 19 of 20% will be the new GM pressuring him so bad that he resigns. The other 1% is the Tuna coming to town.