This and that from the Browns 10th loss in 11 games:
—It's official. The Browns are worse than the expansion team of 1999. At this point of the 1999 season the Browns were 2-9. This season's Browns are 1-10. The '99 team had beaten Pittsburgh by this point. This season's team has one more chance to beat the Steelers and win a division game for the first time since 2007.
—That's just not good. At all.
—For some reason that I can't explain to anyone but myself, I would not give up on Brady Quinn despite these gruesome games he's played this season — including Sunday in Cincinnati. I just think that Quinn has been so mishandled that it's impossible to judge him. I'd bring him back next year, try to improve the position and every other position, hire a new coach and start over. This season has been so bad for everyone that it almost seems best to just junk everything that happened and start over.
—I would not, though, draft a quarterback in the first round. I might try to sign a veteran who could help Quinn, a veteran willing to accept his role as the backup. Drafting a quarterback just means more quarterback controversy and more starting over.
—Besides, there's a few other needs on this team.
—There's a belief out there that Quinn would be tailor-made for the West Coast offense. I'm not sure of that, because we've never seen a West Coast offense in Cleveland. But its' nice to think that way.
—Besides, Quinn was the Browns second-leading receiver Sunday with his reception for 18 yards.
—Browns receivers dropped five more passes. "I can always throw a better ball," Brady Quinn said. "I'll say that every week."
—All these comparisons of Quinn to Peyton Manning's first however many starts miss the point to me. Manning, and others, played as rookies. Quinn got to watch and study for two years. A more apt comparison would be Philip Rivers, who watched and studied for two years then quarterbacked San Diego to a 14-2 record. Then again, Rivers had Antonio Gates and LaDainian Tomlinson. Quinn has Greg Estandia and Chris Jennings. Enough said.
—I think this Jerome Harrison experiment can end.
—The Shaun Rogers injury did not look good.
—Nor did the injury to Kenyon Coleman.
—Kamerion Wimbley hurt his knee, but only said he'd know more tomorrow.
—Seeing Cincinnati's rushing total makes me flash back to preseason, when new defensive coordinator Rob Ryan promised: "We will stop the run." Might not be the exact quote, but it was some nonsense like that. The Bengals ran for 210 yards. That's the third time this season the Browns gave up more than 200 yards rushing, and the fifth they gave up more than 170. They are now giving up 159.9 yards per game.
—The Browns players no longer show much emotion after games. They're not blasé, just more numb from all the losing. It's kind of the way the Bengals fans looked when they left. The Browns do that to people, make them numb.
—There's something very odd going on with Brian Robiskie. There's absolutely no reason he should be inactive and a guy who was signed a few days ago would be active. Robiskie should play. He's a second-round pick, and whatever is happening between him and the team needs to end.
yes larry. but you don't need to draft one in the first round. the steelers and cowboys preferred to pick up top of the line, hall of fame talent at the top end of the draft. the browns chose to put their draftees on the inactive list or give them away to jacksonville.
yep, mangini's a sharp one alright.
Nice catch, terje. You might also point out that Webster is in the HOF, too, as a 5th rounder, and Stepnoski was named to five Pro Bowls and was on the All Decade Team, as a 3rd rounder. All this while our 2nd rounders can't even dress for the games by week 11, and our 1st rounder is anchoring the middle of one of the least productive offensive lines in NFL history.
Seriously doubt we have multiple pro bowls coming out of this draft, let alone any HOF players.
And, yes, there are numerous rookies starting and/or contributing big time all over the league. Check out Detroit, Miami, Cincy, Green Bay. St. Lou and Tampa are also getting more production out their drafts than we are, too. In fact, while Brian Hartline (4th Round–75 picks after Robiskie), another Ohio St. receiver, isn't burning it up for the Fins, he does have 17 times as many catches as Robiskie.
By the way, KII may be a dick, but he's also 22nd in the league in receptions, which is 6th among TEs.
You guys are 100% correct. Alex Mack is a bust. His whole career is playing out before our very eyes. By January his career will be over.
How are Parcells' 2009 picks doing? Since you guys are so quick to judge talent and all… enlighten me oh great tarje…
I think the football season ended for me around mid-October. It has been really refreshing to just ignore all of the chaos and idiocy that goes on with this team.
I will be in hibernation until the draft. I may get mildly excited when training camp start, but if this team does not show me anything in September 2010…
I AM DONE WITH THEM!
dave, i never said mack was a bust. but this year's draft isn't shaking out for the browns like larry's magical years of 1969 and 1989.
Dave, since you asked….
Here's how the Dolphin's top picks from the 2009 draft are faring:
They selected CB Vontae Davis with the 25th pick of the first round and CB Sean Smith with their second pick of the 2nd round. They are the starting corners for Miami and have improved the Dolphin's secondary with solid play.
The first pick of the second round, QB Pat White, has played infrequently as a wildcat QB, mostly running the ball when he is on the field. He has 50 yards in 12 rushing attempts and no completions in three passing attempts.
WR Patrick Turner, the Dolphin's 3rd round pick, has not done anything with 0 receptions.
Their 4th round pick, WR Brian Hartline, has done very good with 21 receptions for 479 yards and 4 TD's. Much bettter than former Buckeye teammate Brian Robiskie.
I didn't check on any picks after the 4th round, but I would say they are being much more productive than Mangini's picks.
The best comment on Mangini's draft is Mangini's actions. He refuses to put second round draft choices on the active list much less the field. How is playing a free agent (who just arrived) ahead of Robiskie building anything? Mangini even lost a draft choice to the Jaguars because he didn't understand the waiver/injured reserve process. Not a good draft unless the new hc next year can actually coach these kids to become productive players.
Good points, terje. I'd add that teams like the Patriots prefer to draft HOF quarterbacks in the sixth round while Mangenius refuses to do so.
Mack is Ok and very well could be a future pro bowler — although he wouldn't have to be to be a viable draft pick (even that low in the first round it's justifiable). Massaquoi (sp?) will contribute for years (whether he's a first receiver, a second, a slot, or is a fourth or fifth option down the road). And Maiava (sp?) will be around for a couple of years or more. After that, it's all a question mark.
I go back to Palmer in 1999 and articles about him/interviews. He tried to coach the players, especially his draft picks into the roles he needed — like pushing Kevin Johnson, following him around from drill to drill and riding his rear end. And we've all heard the anecdote about how Weis rode Quinn's rear and his completion percentage went up and his interceptions went down. Mangini seems divorced from the process — like now that you're drafted, you're on your own. Prove to us that you deserved to be drafted.
I guess that what I'm thinking is that for how bad the Browns are (forget trying to figure out whether Mangini's directly at fault or if he's just unable to do anything about it), one thing he had/has are young players that he could at least try to coach up to fill some of the needed roles. And he's not.
yes larry, mangini prefers to lose his possible 6th round hall of famers on waivers.
I think you guys just need to give the draft more than 11 games to give it a fair grade.
I thought I'd never say this, but I wouldn't mind seeing what Brett Ratliff can do. I know he didn't look that great playing with the 3rd stringers in preseason, but I'd like to see what he can do with the starters. Our QB play has been terrible the whole season except for Anderson's decent game against Cinci and Quinns very good game against Detroit. If Quinn just throws the ball half as well as he did in the Detroit game, we have a chance to win. I know the arguments against this, such as we need to give Quinn more game experience to see if he can be the starter going into next year, but I still would like to see the change to shake things up a bit. I don't know if he could do much worse.
Timmy – its not a QB issue with this team. Man, how many people are out there who think if only the right QB could get in there, we'd be on our way to the promised land!
There are 10 others on offense and 11 others on defense and a whole "coaching" staff and gosh dang it, if only we had a guy like Peyton Manning to lead them all.
Well Rick, it may not be all the QB's fault in many of these games, but they're definitely part of the problem. Brady Quinn just flat out missed on several throws against Cinci in which he had plenty of time. Throws that he made in the Detroit game. I didn't say playing Ratliff would solve all of our problems or that it's even the right thing to do. I'd just like to see him play for curiousity's sake.
Given a supporting cast, along with countless practice sessions with receivers SIMULATING GAME CONDITIONS, Quinn will be a good QB. Right now, among a few other problems that can be corrected, he is suffering what we used to call "Big Eyes" when I coached HS football a hundred years ago. After a while, a young QB sees a rush coming that can be picked up, but a little panic sets in in the back of his mind anyway and errant throws result. Like any other job, a QB performs at his best when he is comfortable. Here, its having confidence in both line and receiver.
Its a complicated game.
The David Carr Syndrome.
Mangini is the Lord of his kingdom and no player should ever, ever question him over his rule.
Just look at his history. Because of his Lordship's rule, he has stabbed veteran players in the back, fired his own best friend General Manager, accused another former buddy coach of stalling time with fake injuries, and accused his former "mentor" (Belicheck) of cheating by stealing signals. He has overlooked veteran players at charity events (Rogers) and has had the most grievances filed against him in one season in the NFL. If a player makes a statement to the press, that player's time is cut for the next game. Rookie players cannot get onto the field to play because they have not "shown enough" yet??? So, he picks up free agents off the waiver wire and plays them instead??? He fines players with excessive fines and even refuses to allow them to play in a game until they learn "his way or the highway".
What happened to the days of a coach being a mentor, teacher and instructor instead of a ruler??? Not much else I can add here, other than I sure would hate to be his friend. I'd probably want to punch him. I wonder how many Browns players feel that way right now???
Strange behavior leads to strange happenings.
Gee Pat, I thought somehow you'd interject some cool, hip…"open minded" article about 'YOUR" band filled with Bruce Springsteen fillers or Sarah Palin bashes as to why this team is worse than the 99 team-something like, "The way I see it Springsteen was inactive from The E Street Band from the end of 1988 through early 1999…so without his major influence in our lives that only explains the downfall of the current Browns being within the same year–coincidence-OR not-HMMM?" Now in terms of Palin, last I heard she has not one penny invested in either the Browns or any other sports team, so this too can be and should be eliminated from any future "SPORTS" article/commentaries you choose to write. Please Pat for the sake of community respect, keep your political views between yourself and those that you happen to get together with on Sat. night at some swank/jazzy Akron dive with only those in your inner circle, meanwhile we, not so politicized individuals that do care yet work daily for a living yet without making it our mission to the world to spread our political views as we just have more to worry about, say feeding the kids!. Back to "sports".. our love for our Browns as it is, even as bad as it is happens to be now, our one weekly escape from reality just 3 and a half hours on Sunday you seem not to relate too, as you are one of many, the likes at CNN, MNBC and others…so please? Keep the politics out of your "articles" as , well really, I get that crap enough! Sports SHOULD be my escape whether my brown and orange are doing well or not-I as my N.E.Ohio bro's cannot help still loving them just the same….so, in closing, keep sipping your martini's, make fun of Palin's glasses and disabled child but at your candle lit table only…yet in the meantime, I as many more will live on, creating new ways to make our basement our "Browns' sanctuary" knowing one day I will rip a cold one out from my hidden fridge the wife knows none about and celebrate our 1st frinkin title…think ONLY Sports Pat"ty", really, it will loosen ya up a lot!
david, sources have it that pat likes to sip gingerbread lattes while ripping on that moron from alaska/idaho.
terje…you sources are correct as confirmed however his gingerbread sipping is only seasonal as after all it is almost Christmas….
I think Bill from his30Nov.09 comment said it best. he hinted and I'll put it bluntly–there is no coaching being done on this team. There are some nice young receivers on this teaam , but we see no timing routes between them and the QB. It is obvious when you watch the game neither are on the same paige. Who ever the coach is next year if they don't hire Charlie Weis to the OC coaching position then this franchise has no hope of coming out of this no NFL offense. Charlie Weis is a fine OC. If the players are in a numb stage then it is time to replace the head coach.