(Normally First and 10 appears on this blog on Tuesday, but this week it's going to wait a day so something else can be addressed …)
There's an old practical joke that I've never actually seen done.
It's the one where a kid fills a bag with some dog poop, then leaves it on a front step, lights it on fire and rings the doorbell.
The idea, of course, is that the person opening the door from the house sees the bag on fire and steps on it to put it out.
Chuckle chuckle.
The thing is, though, that you're never supposed to step in your own fired up mess.
And that's what seems to have happened with Eric Mangini and the Browns following Sunday's loss in Detroit.
Before I continue, let me state that it's more than understandable to have hurt feelings over that loss. The Browns did a lot of things right, from Mangini to the coaching staff right through the players. The opponent was Detroit, but the Browns had their best offensive plan, called their best game and played the best they have all season.
To fight and work as hard as these guys have fought and worked all season and get nothing for it, then to come so close in Detroit … well feelings of anger or bitterness are understandable — especially given the way the game ended.
But it's hard to understand taking it to the level the Browns did on Monday, a day after the game.
First, Mangini more or less accused Jim Schwartz and the Lions of faking injuries to slow down the Browns no-huddle offense. He said this after the game, then did not back down on Monday.
Second, Mangini refused to concede that Hank Poteat interfered with Bryant Johnson on the game's final play.
All this does is make Mangini look like a sore loser, a guy who can't accept the reality of what happened and can't accept the fact that his team blew a 21-point lead and lost. It's one thing to fight for your team, it's another to point the finger at everyone else. What's that old saying about pointing the finger?
Mangini used to be an intern who worked with Schwartz in Cleveland. The pair ostensibly were friends.
But the way Mangini treats his former friends you wonder if anyone will admit to being his friend.
He turned in Bill Belichick for "spygate" after he got to the Jets.
He got the Browns to hire George Kokinis, then Kokinis left the team after nine games.
Now he complains that Schwartz had his players faking injuries to slow down the Browns no-huddle offense. He basically accused his "friend" of cheating.
This is interesting in many respects. But most of all it's interesting because it implies the Browns had an offense worthy of concocting such a scheme.
Prior to Sunday, the Browns did not have any offense, let alone a no-huddle one. To imply that the offense was even worthy of formulating a plan that would require faking injuries is misplaced bluster of the highest order.
"He's way out of bounds on that," Schwartz said at his news conference of the "faked" injuries.
Mangini was asked about the issue seven times on Monday. Each time he could have said, "It's something I'll take up with the league." But each time he hinted and/or implied that the Lions were cheating. On the one hand, you commend him for answering honestly. On the other, in my opinion it's misguided.
Hey, maybe the Lions were faking. I doubt it, but maybe they were. But if they were, so what. Point it out the refs, then go win anyway. I don't think or believe it happened, but even if it did isn't that an admission by the Lions that they can't stop the Browns. Would this not be cause for celebration? Heck, the worst that happens is that the Browns line up and run a play.
As for the pass interference, it's one thing to back your players, for which Mangini should be commended. It's quite another to deny reality.
A day after the game, with a chance to watch film, the Browns and Mangini continued on this notion that because Matt Stafford left the pocket the defensive backs can have contact with receivers. But the key is there can't be contact after the ball is thrown. This would re-write the rule book. By the Browns thinking any time a quarterback rolls out a defensive back would merely tackle a receiver and it would be legal.
"The quarterback was running around all over the place," Mangini said. "Hank (Poteat) matched him [the receiver]. Could he have pushed him less? Yes, he probably could have. It’s really not illegal contact when the guy’s out of the pocket or scrambling, but they called it.”
No they didn't.
They called pass interference. Which is what it was. Poteat hit a guy with the ball in the air, which prevented the guy from going for the ball.
That's a penalty.
Again, Schwartz put things in perspective with a blunt statement.
“They don’t know what they’re talking about,” Schwartz said. “You can quote me on that, because when the quarterback’s out of the pocket, there can still be pass interference. There can’t be illegal contact, but there can be pass interference. And when the ball’s in the air, you can’t make contact with the receivers. It’s clear. There’s more flags thrown than there were officials. So when you’re making contact and you’re not playing the ball and the ball’s in the air, it’s pass interference. That’s as clear a case of pass interference … "
Mangini was asked if the call was made because the ball was in the air, and he grudgingly admitted that was the call.
But then he said it's the first time he's ever seen it called in his life.
"Yes, I guess that’s what they called it for," he said. "I haven’t seen it. I haven’t been a part of it. It’s their call and we live with it."
Yes they do.
Just like they live with the fact they blew a 21-point lead.
And with the fact that they couldn’t stop the Lions on the last drive.
And with the fact that they let a rookie throw five touchdown passes on them.
There's a lot of give and take in this exchange. Schwartz said Abram Elam could have been flagged for interfering with Calvin Johnson. I didn't see it that way, nor did I see that Johnson interfered with the Browns, as some claimed.
That was the normal jostling that goes with a "Hail Mary." But Poteat's wasn't. He gave the refs no choice but to make the call.
Too, I agree with Mangini that the officials missed a 15-yard penalty on Tennessee's coaches for running on the field to celebrate. I don't know how they missed it, but they missed it.
But the rest of this stuff — the accusation and implication of a fake injury, the interference whining — smacks of a guy who can't accept the fact that his team lost a game it should have won.
I've been very negative toward Mangini this season, and I didn't want to be after this game because I thought the Browns gave great effort and did a lot of things well (albeit with some mistakes along the way).
But to lament and whine about these things smacks of a kid taking his ball and going home because he doesn't like the rules.
Mangini talks about his players having class, and carrying themselves the right way.
That starts with him.
Acting this way after a tough loss is simply not becoming of a coach, much less the Browns coach.
It does do one thing, though. It diverts attention from the real issues. And those are that the Browns are 1-9, they lost to Detroit, and in doing so they blew a 21-point lead and allowed the Lions to go 88 yards in 1:46 with no timeouts.
It's pretty evident that the Browns have enough problems without stepping in their own created mess.
Here. Feel free to add this visual to your post. Happy to help.
http://xr.com/4igp
Alan … that is funny!
Pat,
You've been ragging on Mangini all season, nit-picking on every little thing. But in this case, you've hit the nail on the head. I think back to Mike Brown and his "no excuses" philosophy with the Cavs. It gave the Cavs a determined mind-set that served them well. Mangini, on the other hand, teaches accountability while demonstrating the opposite.
All this crap means nothing.
What it boils down to is the Browns so called defense should have never gave up
38 points to lowly Detroit. They only gave up 16 to Baltimore last week. They let
some rookie impersonate Big Ben and throw over 400 yards and 5 touchdowns.
What a joke. The Browns blew a 24-3 lead. All they had to do was play decent defense and victory would have been certain. Browns stink!!!!!
Does it matter that the ball was not intended for that receiver and he was nowhere near it? Not that I care. We are solidifying are top draft spot. Smart move to lose in the end. I don't want them to win anymore games this year, but showing you can win and almost doing it isn't that bad.
And the national media says the Cleveland writers are playing nice with Mangini…
And I think they are. The "national" media are really roasting/toasting him, as he deserves. Stop the whining and crying and try coaching, you might like it…
If there was anything to take away positive from the game, Mangini's childish actions since the game have ruined the positives. Yes, there were positives and the outcome of the game really has no impact on those. Yet, the way we carry ourselves and take responsibility for our own actions speak volumes. Who would ever hire this guy?
"There’s more flags thrown than there were officials."
Interesting. I'm thinking grassy knoll.
Pat, This has been a National mystery since he was hired as to WHY he got a job so fast. Bill B.from New England writes.. I stunk as a head coach my first time as far as media relations and interacting with my players i was forced to stepback to a coordinators job again and worked with a PR firm to improve the way i treat people ..WoW! am i glad i did look at the results Talk about EXTREME MAKEOVER… Thanks Bill!! Point is messgenie thinks his way is still Valid as he was not forced to reinvent .. Kudos for lower penalties after that….well i can only go by what I SEE!!
I wonder how many times we'll be able to trade down the #1 overall pick in next year's draft to get the top-rated kicker in the draft.
Pat:
You're dead on in your analysis. The Browns played well, and should have won on Sunday. They have a great first quarter, but then just rolled over and were outscored 35-13 after that. Three quarters of prevent defense is no way to win a game.
About his questioning the pass interference call, I'm troubled no matter how I think about it: Either he's an idiot or he's a liar. Any NFL coach had better know the rules or he has no business being even an assistant coach, much less being a head coach. If he does in fact know the rule and knows that Poteat committed pass interference, then he's a liar making excuses for poor performance. As you pointed out, he had a day to watch the film and to review the rule book before he made a fool of himself in his press conference with his whining, yet he still chose to do so. The comparisons with Chuck Noll are so misplaced to be laughable: yes he had a horrible first year, but nobody was questioning either his integrity or his football knowledge, and we're questioning both with Mangini.
The Browns played the best they have all season? I'm not sure where that idea is coming from, Pat. How was the Lions game any different from the Baltimore game? In both games only one unit showed up to play, while the other was completely and thoroughly incompetent.
This fantasy that defense doesn't matter is bizarre. You're basically saying to judge the team solely on how the offense plays, which I can assure you is not how you probably should be judging any team.
Sure, it was better than some games this season where neither unit showed up to play, but the Detroit game was the mirror image of the Baltimore game, and I did not hear you or anyone else claim that the Browns played “the best they have all season” in that game just because it was their best defensive performance all season.
At least the Baltimore game wasn't the only game where the defense showed up this year, as the Detroit game was for the offense. Yes, take heart that Brady Quinn finally showed something, but don't get carried away with praise for a team that had an awful showing by the defense (worst of the season, in fact), a mediocre showing by the special teams (also probably the worst of the season), and some just amazingly poor coaching decisions when it mattered most in the fourth quarter.
It was nice to see some offense, but yesterday was just as much an overall indictment of the this team and the organization as any other game this season.
The question of the day is ……Who is the bigger A-hole?
alan t……with his unquestionable loyalty to Pat it makes one wonder about the Pumpkin Latte insinuations, not that being a member of the rainbow coalition is a bad thing.
terje……..big or small, he's an a-hole.
roadkill….his delusional comments are best ignored.
You must wait for the candidates to respond first before you make your decision. The candidates are not allowed to vote for themselves( I'm refering to you terje). This poll is only a joke.
Did anyone expect anything less from Mangini yesterday? Even the 'gimme game' on the schedule didn't work out.
For me it comes back to the control freak who can't accept that things happen that he can't control. And the things he could control, he fails miserably at.
if being right about mangini since the day he was hired makes me an a-hole so be it. it's better than being a delusional mouth breather.
Pat's writing is boring. He's been slamming Mangini since the moment he was hired. Now he's blasting Mangini for telling the truth. The Lion's players did fake. Most were role players who would be leaving the field anyway. And they somehow were all well enough to return within a play or two.
So now Pat slams Mangini again. Can't wait for his next lousy column. LOL.
The game was, indeed, a gimme game——for the Lions, who almost let it slip away. Even the lowly Lions play "down" to the level of the Browns. Then the Manboy cries and whines ……. he needs to be slapped by a writer during one of the press conferences. i am sure that he would cry.
Pat is one ov the very few NE Ohio media that will actually criticize the team and isn't a shill for them. The 2 radio announcers are really a joke, Donovan and Dieken predict the browns will win just about every week. Makes you wonder what they watch during the games.
The pumpkin latte insinuations? Pumpkin latte? Lay off the pipe, man.
Spot on, Pat. Spot on.
". . . misplaced bluster of the highest order" is my new favorite phrase.
Pretty good week for Brady Quinn, on and off the field. He is dating olypic gymnast Alicia Sacramone. http://xr.com/xoi5
BQ just better watch out for her left:
http://xr.com/hye
Big party at Alan's mom's basement tomorrow! See you there!
wow lambbone, you survived that long drag off an exhaust pipe! and the one brain cell you had is still intact! go mangini! right buddy?
So when is putting both hands on a reciever when the ball is in the air and pushing him out of the endzone not pass interference. Did Mangini watch the film before saying he did not think there was pass interference on the last play.
hahahaha…that was funny!!! lay off the pipe!!! your a funny funny guy, really, a funny man. do you raise your pinky when you drink a latte?
BTW…when you are done kissing his a** you should wipe the mud off of your nose, alan.
what's wrong terje? can't take an insult? you seem to dish it out so often. you should let those balls drop, pantywaist.
mandummy is not a real nfl head coach !
bill cowher only whats a job with a team already in place so he can step right in like he did with the steelers and just like with the coach who is there now same deal
solomon, seems like i took your insult just fine. sorry my mouthbreathing comment made your mother cry.
don't get bent out of shape, man.
hurling insults to those who don't agree with your point of view. forget posting about the Browns, lets just fight.
Miguel, Elizabeth and a few others are the only ones who discuss the team and the recent games without lowering themselves to insulting others opinions because they differ. I have much respect for their points even if I may disagree with them.
Pat's commentaries are different and refreshing take on the "usual" blather that is issued from Berea and the NFL. Just tired of the constant crap that bellows off the keyboards of a few cyber-bullies on this site. If you don't like it then treat others as you want to be treated, with a wee bit of respect.
terje…i pray that you remain the same.
yes, include my poor sick mother in your insults. you are exactly what i think you are. your mouth-breather comment is a stretch, probably only funny to you. try again.
solomon, are you talking to yourself? or did you forget already that you're the one who fired off the insults? which one of your personalities is playing the role of martyr and which one is the bad guy? just so we can follow your little drama more clearly.
terje..don't play that card, please. Do you need me to paste some of your previous posts? What does my opinion matter anyway? shrug it off, tough guy.
its a gingerbread latte, my bad, wrong flavor. right person.
seems like you're the one with the chip on the shoulder. give me your address, i'll send you a box of kleenex and a copy of hope floats on blu-ray.
Solomon, we agree on one point: Pat is one of the few out there speaking truth to power.
As for Dieken and Donovan, Kirk, they pick the Browns most weeks with their tongues lodged firmly in their teeth. Especially Deke, who makes no bones about being a homer, and who always has a humorous take on why he has the Browns winning. He has picked them nine times this year, and you can tell that he really never thought they would be 9-1 at this point. He just picks them for fun. Watch their Sunday Strategy show every week and you will see that they are anything but shills. Ditto on the Red Zone program. They do try and give people the benefit of the doubt, because they are all civil gentlemen, but they call it like they see it every time.
By the way, both Deke and Donovan called that pass interference on Poteat almost before the flags had even come out of the refs' pockets. Both men said repeatedly that it was absolutely a foul.
State your opinion, but don't attack others for stating theirs. And especially don't attack them when you are getting their opinion wrong.
yes….you're right. maybe i was out of line, my bad. send me a copy of mangini's pink slip and a case of beer! that would make me happy. this season seems to linger FOREVER!
solomon, the day mangini gets his pink slip the beer will definitely be on me.
Why is Lewis the starting rb? He goes into that tippy-toe dance before he hits the hole every time.
Solomon, you were not out of line. It was Kirk who was attacking others. You were one of the people telling him he was out of line.
And for anyone who never has watched Sunday Strat or the Red Zone, take it from someone who has lived all over the country that those shows are two of the best sports shows ever. Red Zone especially, because I can't even listen to five minutes of any other sports talk show, but I never miss a week of the Red Zone. They always have good info, and they take the time to break down and discuss even the most crazy things that callers say. Those three guys manage to be respectful and honest at the same time, while often mining gold from the nuggets of crap that their callers sometimes throw out there.
Honestly, not five minutes of any other sports talk can I handle, and I doubt I've even turned on any other sports talk in many a year, but when I discovered those shows last season, I was hooked instantly.
This doesn't go for the Red Zone show on Thursdays, which is only marginally interesting most weeks. MK Cabot does a nice job, but Andre Knott is as boring as all get out, and MK can't make up for that. Although she is plenty sweet to look at, and she knows more about football than most everyone I know. Hot and football smart. That is a winning combo. Too bad Andre is there to bore things up and mangle the English language every five minutes.
People … people … people …
It's a holiday week.
Can we all just get along???
oh yeah, christmas is the holiday that's supposed to result in hurt feelings and bitterness.
regifting some those buried treasures from the wedding….hahaha
who wants a coffee/bean grinder/expresso/steamer/toaster machine? Better yet a never been used treadmachine/clothes hanger( a very expense hanger ).
WOW!!! MEKA LEKA HI!!! MEKA HINI HO!!! ERIC MANGINI's GOTTA GO!! ……To be slurred by someone and be mentioned in the same rant as ALAN & TERGE is truly an HONOR ….as a poor incompetent fan i feel its my duty to support Pat a local guy who sez it like he cees it!! Tally HO my irish brother actually im more welsh not sure if thats good or bad???? HAPPY TURKEY DAY YALL!
PS i called all of my friends to read this blog so they can see i am relevant someone cares enough to slight me !!! HIP HIP WHO REY !!!!!
This team has all kinds of issues that need to be addressed,where to start is the million dollar question.Maybe a good start would be to have the team watch the movie "The 300' before every game.If that does not inspire them nothing will.
roadkill…you were included because of your support of the team from the three rivers area. I'm glad you embraced the poll question, you should wear it with pride. congratulations you are the winner! hahahaha you are funny guy.
I'm thankful for Alan's Mom…for putting a floor over his head.
solomoan Kane GO CAVS !!!!! GO Steelers!!!! If im gonna spend my entertainment money might as well see a good show!!!!!!! MEKA LEKA HI!! And thank you for the award i shall cherish this for about a day or two i have NEVER won anything like this before !!!!!!
I, for one did not see any Tennessee coaches on the field in Detroit.
Solomon I think I know three fellows who'd appreciate that coffee bean grinder/espresso machine. Throw in some gingerbread flavoring and you might get a good price.
terje, why are you backing off? earlier you were calling people a mouth breather.
Solomon, you challenged someone to a fight.
Don't back off just 'cuz Patty Mac wants you to play nice. This season is lost, might as well git in each other's grilles and duke it out… let's hear what you got.
Since Pat hasn't answered my question, I'll pose it to the rest of the bloggers. Has there been a coach in the modern NFL era (since 1980) that was fired after just one season after taking over a team that was 4-12 or worse the season before?
tim try NFL.com