This e-mail from Michael Lampers came thorugh the system the other day. It read:
Dear Pat,
Isn't this move to get Mike Holmgren and turn it all over to him simply more of the same from Randy Lerner? I don't care what his pedigree is. If Holmgren is hired without the owner conducting any other interviews (AGAIN!!), then it's just more stupidity. You cannot just zero in on a name. You have to research and identify an actual person, rather than just a persona that you know through reputation alone.
If this were Bill Cowher we were talking about, then I probably would be willing to close my eyes and take the leap. But anybody — ANYBODY — else should have to go through a selection process. If not, then you really do not know what you are getting.
I'm not trying to trash Holmgren, by the way. Just trying to point out that Randy Lerner seems to be falling in love all over again, and that style of infatuation management has proven to be a disaster.
Reading this e-mail causes one to put his hand to his chin and say, Hmm .. not a bad point.
However, you lose me a bit when you say you'd give Cowher credibility but not Holmgren. If memory serves correct, Holmgren took two teams to the Super Bowl, and he has as many rings as Cowher (Brian Billick has the same number, by the way).
That being said, it is a good point about falling in love before interviewing anyone. One would hope that Lerner would go through a lengthier process in hiring this time, because we all saw how it worked out last time.
It's just amazing the things we are talking about related to the Browns during the season, isn't it?
As an aside … and last … Mike … you broke the "McManamon I Don't Mean To" rule. Which means that any time you say you don't mean to do something (I don't mean to be rude, to interrupt, etc.) you are in fact doing that very thing. So … well done trashing Mike Holmgren!
Bill Cowher had a lot of years of failures too, if you're saying that not advancing in the playoffs is a failure…
Someone on another site posted the below article on Mangini and I found it very interesting. If the Browns dump him, they dump him, but it might be a big mistake. I can't help finding myself pulling for the guy.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/12493344/qa-with-judge-mangini-talks-jets-browns-belichick
Oh, by the way, a thought on the Edwards trade. Many on here slam Mangini saying what a horrible trade it was, but I beg to differ. A 3rd and a 5th in a deep draft plus Trusnik and Stucky. Stucky may only at best be a decent 3rd receiver, but I think this Trusnik kid could be the real deal. Just watch, this kid's going to be a Pro Bowl linebacker in a couple of years. I think when all is said and done, Trusnik alone will make the Edwards trade well worth it, and what we get for the draft picks is just gravy.
The e-mail's premise is, in itself, pretty darned dumb. It has nothing to do with Holmgren or Cowher, though.
Think of Lerner as a typical head of a human resources department at a large company. The guy has a human resources pedigree. That's all an HR guy typically has done his entire life. The HR guy doesn't have a freakin' clue about the responsibilities and duties of the actual jobs in a company. Doesn't have a foggy clue what the employees actually do. He knows every company HR policy inside and out, stupid and otherwise, and knows that the laws, like the company can't discriminate based upon race, religion, color, creed, handicap and whatever. But if you asked him to perform even do the simplest and most basic task that the giggling 19-year-old girl on the floor being paid $9 an hour could do, you'd think he'd just been asked to recite the Declaration of Independence in Mandarin Chinese.
That is Randy Lerner in a nutshell. He is the human resources director of a large company with completely different knowledge and background from the guy he is interviewing. He has the rudimentary qualifications of a job screener, but none of the qualifications of a decision-maker.
So what is the point of Lerner interviewing *anybody?* about the nuts and bolts and subtle nuances and complex strategies of the job? Mike Holmgren, for all intents and purposes, will sitting there for three hours speaking Mandarin Chinese. That is why Ernie Accorsi supposedly is involved. Accorsi speaks Mandarin Chinese. But to Randy Lerner, an interview with Mike Holmgren is akin to interviewing the Chinese walrus at Sea World and then processing the exact same responses.
Oh, and Tim, are you still stumping on the political trail for Mangini? Seriously, what kind of crop are they growing in Plantation, Florida? The golden rule of successful entrepreneurs is don't smoke the merchandise.
Tim (and others): We're not falling for Mangini's sudden P.R. campaign to save his own skin. If everything were as rosy as he paints it, he wouldn't have alienated the players, fans, front office, staff, media….well, everyone. He's conniving. He'll say what he needs to at just the right time to put himself in the best light. Bottom line is, he took a poor franchise and in less than a year has made it a pathetic franchise. And to think that we'd now entrust him with a crucial draft, the ability to lure key free agents, and even "coach" players is beyond reason.
He can try to paint himself as a Belichick clone, although he certainly stabbed his old buddy in the back the first chance he got. Bill asked him to please take any other job than the Jets; Eric took the Jets. Eric exposed the spygate filming (though he'd used it for years). And then, he threw his own handpicked friend & GM under the bus to save his skin. How can anyone trust a guy like that? He appears to have no sense of trust, integrity, loyalty…things that real leaders possess.
Think about what you said, Marc. "He took a poor franchise and in less than a year has made it a pathetic franchise. And to think that we'd now entrust him with a crucial draft…."
He took a poor team devoid of talent (I don't consider players like KW2 and BE "talented" when they are known more for their off-field antics than their play on field) and dumped some wanna-be's, never-were's, and prototypical head cases. He brought in Jets players who he had coached previously to assist with the transition to his culture and style of play. That he "failed" to attract any big names to come to Cleveland is irrelevant in the first/transitional year of a franchise. There is only so much that can be done each year and mangini's priority (much to the chagrin of Browns fans) was that instillinghis system was paramount to the team's record for the year, who the players on the roster were, and who was happy or not. Few fans actually realized that this team was in shambles and was missing more than "a few pieces" to even begin to be competitive. Those who did are not surprised by this turn of events. By the way, who do you think set up next year's draft?
pfffffffffffffft.
tim, mangini is a snake….a smart one. don't trust a word that comes out of his mouth.
brownstown, mangini's system got him canned after a winning season. the guy is a fraud. this isn't marty schottenheimer clashing with the g.m. and getting the boot after 14-2, this is a coward of a man.
Just some perspective on KW II. He has 35 catches and five TD's so far. I'd say he's an upgrade from anyone we have here. Besides, he doesn't get in trouble off the field…..he just gets dumb P.I. penalties.
Oh, okay, Mangin….err, Brownstown Frown….if that's how you prefer to look at things and believe that everything with this coach is hunky-dory, in spite of the universal evidence to the contrary, well then….I guess, in the great words of P.T. Barnum, "there's one born every minute."
Let us know how that works out for ya.
i have to give mangini credit for fooling two teams into giving him a head coaching job. the guy's credentials prior to joining the jets reminds me of those guys who weasel their ways into good paying jobs by pretending to have a harvard phd when they didn't even finish junior college. supposedly mangini was stripped of defensive coordinator duties by belichick in his only year on the job. looking at the stats from that year i can believe it.
Thall,
Let's be serious just for one minute. K2 played in less than half of his games with the Browns. He's on a 1-7 team. He just got a huge raise.
He will break down and fail.
Enjoyed seeing Holgren's name and "Walrus" in the same sentence.
Could it be Lerner's thinking is: "He was good enough for Ron Wolf to hire. He must be good enough for me, 'cause I'd love to hire Wolf to oversee my entire operation"?
What's that word from Sex and The City? To choose a team president by picking one name from a list of… Actually, I don't know what it's a list of. Someone tell me:
1. Ron Wolf worked for two organizations as a personnel guy and two as a GM. He won one Super Bowl as a GM and made a losing appearance. He won one Super Bowl as a personnel guy.
2. Ernie Accorsi worked for three teams as a GM, and never won a Super Bowl. He only made one trip.
3. Bill Cowher served as head coach for only one team. He had some input into personnel, but always worked under a GM and a very active team president. He won one Super Bowl and lost one.
4. Mike Holmgren coached two teams, and served as GM of one. When he was a coach– serving under a GM– he went to three Super Bowls and won one. When he was a GM, nothing.
You can't say they've all been GMs (Cowher wasn't), much less successful ones (Holmgren). They haven't all won Super Bowls (Accorsi). They haven't worked for more than one organization that went to Super Bowls (Accorsi, Cowher and, unless you want to give him credit for being a junior exec, Wolf).
What they are is a list of people that Randy Lerner has heard of– and someone has said the Browns should hire.
If "Rummy" Lerner (the nickname stems from that photo of him standing next to Mangini, looking like a homeless guy) wants to establish some credibility, let him start by defining a list of criteria, identifying everyone who fits it and then interviewing them. If a candidate does not want the job, but recommends a protege, add that person to the list.
And, no matter how much you like one person, interview them all. That's how the Steelers picked Mike Tomlin as coach, instead of Ken Whisenhunt, Russ Grimm or Ron Rivera.
Obviously it will be labor-intensive and take a long time. He has eight weeks, and the cost of getting this wrong is tens of millions of dollars.
I find it comical that this simpleton hasn't even tried to pick the brains of (to name two guys) Bobby Beathard (who worked for four organizations that went to a collective seven Super Bowls) and Bob Harlan (who worked for both a Super Bowl champ and a World Series winner). But that's appropriate for the owner of a franchise that should be known as the Clowns.
Its funny…As I die hard J-E-T-S Fan I thought Mangini was a good coach ,who last season had a situation forced down his throat I.E(Brett Favre).If you look at my jets this season there lack of discipline and poor coaching decisions have put us in a situation that may lead us to be exactly where the Browns will be in december-HOME-.The Browns through Mangini/penguin have accrued 1000s of picks(ok,alot).So rebuild give it one more if you guys still suck then fire him.We were 8-3 going down the stretch last year,and the old gunslinger had a bum arm and the owner needed to sell 25,000$ PSL's.Do the math?And we collapsed to 9-7(a record we may not match this year.)The guy is trying to change the culture from Romeo's country club to a Parcells style mine field.And no i dont know him put there must be a reasonTEDDY ATLAS ,CURTIS MARTIN, TY LAW,and countless others are drawn to his style of coaching.
hey ll, mangini named his son zach BRETT mangini in training camp.
still going to blame the owner? do the math!
I know that,have patience.the minute you fire him he ends up on sabans staff in Alabama.
Can him and start over,but give the next guy at least two years or you will always be like my Jets…Not winning an important game in December.
And my reference to "do the math" is in regard to needing to sell PSL's during the season why when Brett had a bum bicep they could not put him on the bench.I still think Mangini can coach
All of the above who are worried about how few rings have been won- we need to first concentrate of competing week in and week out. You can say this guy or that guy only won one ring etc. Let's get real. Before we can even think about that we need to find out what it takes to win 8 games in a season. Then worry about the playoffs. Remember everyones concern because Marty couldn't win the big one. He at least got 3 teams there. Just get me there I will take my chances once there.
You guys don't get my point. I have my entire net worth (which isn't much, but still) that Accorsi is the guy who recommended Homlgren to Lerner. He's not doing this blindly. Accorsi was Arthur Blank's recent advisor in Atlanta for the same reason. Accorsi gave him the name of three guys, including Kokinis. Just like Lerner with Mangini, he didn't bother interviewing everybody on the market. In fact, Blank only interviewed two of Accorsi's three guys, and made his decision after the second guy. Didn't even get to interview Kokinis, because he stopped interviewing candidates.
So my point is, Lerner doesn't need to interview anybody. Really, what's the point? That's why God created retired consultants. The experienced smart ones wearing bad toupees (like Accorsi) for actual hiring. The incredibly naive and/or dumb and/or egotistical and/or arrogant and/or egomaniacal ones (like Jim Brown and Bumbling Kosar) to spy on the current hires.
That's why I'd prefer somebody like Jim Holmgren, or somebody like him, to do the actual interviewing of guys who would be under him. I don't care if Holmgren knewwhat he himself was doing in his GM role with the Seahawks, but at least he has a far greater feel for what's needed in a hire.
Did I write Jim Holmgren? I think that's the name of his dog. I meant Mike Holmgren.
I also wrote "Bumbling Kosar." Of course, he is known as "Bumbling Bernie." Sorry, bad day.
Did you check for radon gas in mom's basement? Perhaps it is finally getting to you.
Alan, it's not about Lerner interviewing anybody himself. It's about Lerner getting a lot of opinions from a lot of people on a lot of candidates. THAT is how it's done by a successful business. No one is advocating that Lerner do the interviewing personally, and then make the decision personally. The guy is arguing the exact opposite–that Lerner get a lot of opinions from a lot of people. Not just Acorsi and Kosar.
Man, if you had any idea how other multi-billion dollar operations take tons of time, and spend whatever it takes, and do all the homework they can in order to determine who to hire to take over as CEO or CFO or Managing Director, or whatever–while you are advocating that dopey Randy Lerner just take Acorsi's word for it?
It's a lot more complicated than either you or Lerner have ever been able to admit to, which is why it's never been done properly. You don't just take the hot name, or the guy with pedigree. If it were that easy, then everyone would simply do it and there would be no downtrodden franchises. If it worked that well, then Holmgren would still be in Seattle.
This is why the Steelers make the smart choices that last them for decades, while the Bungles and the Browns and the Cards and the Lions keep having to go back to the well every other year. The smart teams take the time, do their due diligence, and get the decision right the first time, while the dumb ass franchises just jump from one hot chick to the next, thinking that eventually one of them will turn out to be both hot and a rocket scientist.
A coin flip is a coin flip is a coin flip. Doesn't matter how many times it comes up heads–it's still just a 50% chance that it will come up tails next time. So let's stop making coin flips to determine our coaches and GMs and QBs, and let's do the work that is needed to get the deal right this time.
But that's precisely my point. I'm not talking about your typical multi-billion dollar businesses. I'm talking about professional sports and entertainment. It's not even close to any typical business. What's wrong with just trusting one consultant? I'm talking about the real consultant, not the drunk spy who keep popping up on radio delusional that he has some say in matters.
Radio stations hire their own consultants to program their stations? So what's wrong with Lerner selecting Accorsi as his consultant? The Falcons seem to be doing OK. You don't want to be selecting a whole bunch of consultants, that's just confusing and stupid. Lerner is over his head to begin with. You really think it makes a lot of sense to have Rush Limbaugh whispering in left ear, and Al Franken whispering in your right?
alan t.'s imposter, what is it with moms and basements with you?