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	<title>Comments on: There&#039;s no argument against Holmgren; it just has to happen</title>
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	<link>http://www.ohiomm.com/blogs/mcmanamon/2009/11/09/theres-no-argument-against-holmgren-it-just-has-to-happen/</link>
	<description>Musings on the world of sports</description>
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		<title>By: jim</title>
		<link>http://www.ohiomm.com/blogs/mcmanamon/2009/11/09/theres-no-argument-against-holmgren-it-just-has-to-happen/comment-page-1/#comment-9920</link>
		<dc:creator>jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 03:27:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ohiomm.com/blogs/mcmanamon/?p=4729#comment-9920</guid>
		<description>Joe, check out the soccer coverage on the zips blog - http://www.ohiomm.com/blogs/zips/category/mens-soccer/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe, check out the soccer coverage on the zips blog &#8211; <a href="http://www.ohiomm.com/blogs/zips/category/mens-soccer/" rel="nofollow">http://www.ohiomm.com/blogs/zips/category/mens-soccer/</a></p>
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		<title>By: alan t.</title>
		<link>http://www.ohiomm.com/blogs/mcmanamon/2009/11/09/theres-no-argument-against-holmgren-it-just-has-to-happen/comment-page-1/#comment-9172</link>
		<dc:creator>alan t.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 03:11:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ohiomm.com/blogs/mcmanamon/?p=4729#comment-9172</guid>
		<description>15?  Stop exaggerating.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>15?  Stop exaggerating.</p>
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		<title>By: terje</title>
		<link>http://www.ohiomm.com/blogs/mcmanamon/2009/11/09/theres-no-argument-against-holmgren-it-just-has-to-happen/comment-page-1/#comment-9170</link>
		<dc:creator>terje</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 03:04:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ohiomm.com/blogs/mcmanamon/?p=4729#comment-9170</guid>
		<description>yes, all 15 people who care about zips soccer must be real upset.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>yes, all 15 people who care about zips soccer must be real upset.</p>
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		<title>By: joe</title>
		<link>http://www.ohiomm.com/blogs/mcmanamon/2009/11/09/theres-no-argument-against-holmgren-it-just-has-to-happen/comment-page-1/#comment-9166</link>
		<dc:creator>joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 02:20:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ohiomm.com/blogs/mcmanamon/?p=4729#comment-9166</guid>
		<description>Who cares, you should spend some time covering a winner, the number one soccer team in the country, the Akron Zips

The Beacon&#039;s coverage of Akron Zips Soccer is disgusting; you should be ashamed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Who cares, you should spend some time covering a winner, the number one soccer team in the country, the Akron Zips</p>
<p>The Beacon&#039;s coverage of Akron Zips Soccer is disgusting; you should be ashamed.</p>
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		<title>By: larry d.</title>
		<link>http://www.ohiomm.com/blogs/mcmanamon/2009/11/09/theres-no-argument-against-holmgren-it-just-has-to-happen/comment-page-1/#comment-9155</link>
		<dc:creator>larry d.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 21:12:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ohiomm.com/blogs/mcmanamon/?p=4729#comment-9155</guid>
		<description>McKay sucks. Sam Wyche ran the draft when the Bucs landed Lynch, Sapp, Brooks, etc. McKay put the team in a terrible hole, stabbed folks in the back and then went to Atlanta where he signed Vick to a gargantuan contract even as dog fighting rumors circulated and then signed Petrino who lasted about five games. He&#039;s been shamefully demoted, though his backstabbing ways keeps him popular among reporters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>McKay sucks. Sam Wyche ran the draft when the Bucs landed Lynch, Sapp, Brooks, etc. McKay put the team in a terrible hole, stabbed folks in the back and then went to Atlanta where he signed Vick to a gargantuan contract even as dog fighting rumors circulated and then signed Petrino who lasted about five games. He&#039;s been shamefully demoted, though his backstabbing ways keeps him popular among reporters.</p>
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		<title>By: alan t.'s imposter</title>
		<link>http://www.ohiomm.com/blogs/mcmanamon/2009/11/09/theres-no-argument-against-holmgren-it-just-has-to-happen/comment-page-1/#comment-9138</link>
		<dc:creator>alan t.'s imposter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 18:09:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ohiomm.com/blogs/mcmanamon/?p=4729#comment-9138</guid>
		<description>Real Alan,

Who is to say that the following wasn&#039;t true:

1.  Miami took advantage of a weak schedule in 08.
2.  Miami wasn&#039;t as bad off as you would expect a 1-15 team to be (lost some close games).
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/teams/schedule?team=mia&amp;year=2007

They are 2-5 against non-Braylon teams in 2009.  This is after Parcells has had a couple years to build.  There&#039;s no major injuries (Pennington, c&#039;mon, don&#039;t bring him up- he IS an injury).  So what&#039;s up, where is the almighty Bill Parcels this year?


Here&#039;s my point...  I&#039;m beginning to think that people over-rate team management.  They throw out all kinds of money &amp; for what?  All the &#039;great&#039; coaches have had down years.  Some more than others.  As great as Parcells was, he only won a little over half of his games (.569).  

Holmgren was .670 in Green Bay but only .541 when he was in Seattle with full control.  He&#039;s better than what we have (which is nothing).  He&#039;s certainly better than that bobble head doll that was GM last week (always nodding yes to Mangini).  However, I&#039;d be surprised if anyone comes in here and has success.  Nobody in this town wants to wait it out and everyone second guesses everything.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Real Alan,</p>
<p>Who is to say that the following wasn&#039;t true:</p>
<p>1.  Miami took advantage of a weak schedule in 08.<br />
2.  Miami wasn&#039;t as bad off as you would expect a 1-15 team to be (lost some close games).<br />
<a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/teams/schedule?team=mia&#038;year=2007" rel="nofollow">http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/teams/schedule?team=mia&#038;year=2007</a></p>
<p>They are 2-5 against non-Braylon teams in 2009.  This is after Parcells has had a couple years to build.  There&#039;s no major injuries (Pennington, c&#039;mon, don&#039;t bring him up- he IS an injury).  So what&#039;s up, where is the almighty Bill Parcels this year?</p>
<p>Here&#039;s my point&#8230;  I&#039;m beginning to think that people over-rate team management.  They throw out all kinds of money &amp; for what?  All the &#039;great&#039; coaches have had down years.  Some more than others.  As great as Parcells was, he only won a little over half of his games (.569).  </p>
<p>Holmgren was .670 in Green Bay but only .541 when he was in Seattle with full control.  He&#039;s better than what we have (which is nothing).  He&#039;s certainly better than that bobble head doll that was GM last week (always nodding yes to Mangini).  However, I&#039;d be surprised if anyone comes in here and has success.  Nobody in this town wants to wait it out and everyone second guesses everything.</p>
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		<title>By: Miguel</title>
		<link>http://www.ohiomm.com/blogs/mcmanamon/2009/11/09/theres-no-argument-against-holmgren-it-just-has-to-happen/comment-page-1/#comment-9136</link>
		<dc:creator>Miguel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 16:34:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ohiomm.com/blogs/mcmanamon/?p=4729#comment-9136</guid>
		<description>I know what I do not know, which is more than I can say for the rest of you.  Would Holmgren be a good choice?  I don&#039;t know.  He&#039;s never had even a sliver of success running a front office, so that&#039;s not good.  Ditto for Shanahan, who took Denver down the tubes once he got full control.   So, the idea of hiring another guy to have full control as coach/GM seems insane to me.  Especially if that guy is a guy who has already failed as a coach/GM.

Cower is about the only no-brainer out there.  He worked with several front office incarnations in Pitt, and he was successful with all of them.  He also seemed to have full control during his last contract, and he went to two Super Bowls during that time.  So, if we want to turn the keys over to Cower (who I don&#039;t think would ever come here), fine.  But other than that . . . 

But comparing Holmgren to Parcells is crazy.  Parcells had run the last two organizations he was in before he took over Miami, and even then he knew enough to know he couldn&#039;t be both president and coach.  Holmgren has run one organization, and he failed miserably at it.  Only after he lost GM power did his team begin to succeed, and even then they only succeeded short term.

I just don&#039;t know, and neither do any of you.  But there are people out there who do know, and I only hope Randy consults AND listens to those people when making his next hire.  He&#039;s never done it before, so I&#039;m not sure he will now, but I hope he does.  But if anyone thinks it&#039;s a good idea to just hire Holmgren or Shanahan or Gruden and turn everything over to them, that&#039;s really not much different than hiring Mangini and turning everything over to him.

Personally, however, I don&#039;t think Mangini is going anywhere.  I think Lerner is delusional, and if the Browns can pick off three wins in the second half (a real possibility given the schedule), then he&#039;s coming back next season.  Because the only thing I believe strongly is that Lerner does not want to have to fire Mangini.  He still hopes it can work out, and he&#039;s going to use whatever glimmer of hope he can find to keep EM around.

Randy Lerner is off his rocker, people.  That&#039;s the only thing we really know for certain.  Anyone hoping he will suddenly make a rational decision is simply banging away against Einstein&#039;s definition of insanity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know what I do not know, which is more than I can say for the rest of you.  Would Holmgren be a good choice?  I don&#039;t know.  He&#039;s never had even a sliver of success running a front office, so that&#039;s not good.  Ditto for Shanahan, who took Denver down the tubes once he got full control.   So, the idea of hiring another guy to have full control as coach/GM seems insane to me.  Especially if that guy is a guy who has already failed as a coach/GM.</p>
<p>Cower is about the only no-brainer out there.  He worked with several front office incarnations in Pitt, and he was successful with all of them.  He also seemed to have full control during his last contract, and he went to two Super Bowls during that time.  So, if we want to turn the keys over to Cower (who I don&#039;t think would ever come here), fine.  But other than that . . . </p>
<p>But comparing Holmgren to Parcells is crazy.  Parcells had run the last two organizations he was in before he took over Miami, and even then he knew enough to know he couldn&#039;t be both president and coach.  Holmgren has run one organization, and he failed miserably at it.  Only after he lost GM power did his team begin to succeed, and even then they only succeeded short term.</p>
<p>I just don&#039;t know, and neither do any of you.  But there are people out there who do know, and I only hope Randy consults AND listens to those people when making his next hire.  He&#039;s never done it before, so I&#039;m not sure he will now, but I hope he does.  But if anyone thinks it&#039;s a good idea to just hire Holmgren or Shanahan or Gruden and turn everything over to them, that&#039;s really not much different than hiring Mangini and turning everything over to him.</p>
<p>Personally, however, I don&#039;t think Mangini is going anywhere.  I think Lerner is delusional, and if the Browns can pick off three wins in the second half (a real possibility given the schedule), then he&#039;s coming back next season.  Because the only thing I believe strongly is that Lerner does not want to have to fire Mangini.  He still hopes it can work out, and he&#039;s going to use whatever glimmer of hope he can find to keep EM around.</p>
<p>Randy Lerner is off his rocker, people.  That&#039;s the only thing we really know for certain.  Anyone hoping he will suddenly make a rational decision is simply banging away against Einstein&#039;s definition of insanity.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://www.ohiomm.com/blogs/mcmanamon/2009/11/09/theres-no-argument-against-holmgren-it-just-has-to-happen/comment-page-1/#comment-9135</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 15:55:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ohiomm.com/blogs/mcmanamon/?p=4729#comment-9135</guid>
		<description>Talk about having wasted an entire year!  We are right back to where we were a year ago.  Looking for a GM and Coach and it shows how much the Owner knows about owning a pro football team......NOTHING!  Holmgren, Shanahan, Gruden are all credible choices.  The question is, can you get any of them?  The other problem is, why are we trying to mimick everyone else?  We need someone who knows what they are doing and has a history of success in building a team and instituting a successful system.  The three names above have done it more than once.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Talk about having wasted an entire year!  We are right back to where we were a year ago.  Looking for a GM and Coach and it shows how much the Owner knows about owning a pro football team&#8230;&#8230;NOTHING!  Holmgren, Shanahan, Gruden are all credible choices.  The question is, can you get any of them?  The other problem is, why are we trying to mimick everyone else?  We need someone who knows what they are doing and has a history of success in building a team and instituting a successful system.  The three names above have done it more than once.</p>
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		<title>By: jerry lee</title>
		<link>http://www.ohiomm.com/blogs/mcmanamon/2009/11/09/theres-no-argument-against-holmgren-it-just-has-to-happen/comment-page-1/#comment-9134</link>
		<dc:creator>jerry lee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 15:48:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ohiomm.com/blogs/mcmanamon/?p=4729#comment-9134</guid>
		<description>McKay over Holmgren, easy call.
He drafted Sapp, Brooks, Lynch, Dunn, and Alstott in Tampa, laying the ground work for Gruden to win the Superbowl.
McKay and Gruden, One
Holmgren and Mooch, Two</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>McKay over Holmgren, easy call.<br />
He drafted Sapp, Brooks, Lynch, Dunn, and Alstott in Tampa, laying the ground work for Gruden to win the Superbowl.<br />
McKay and Gruden, One<br />
Holmgren and Mooch, Two</p>
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		<title>By: Keith Vlasak</title>
		<link>http://www.ohiomm.com/blogs/mcmanamon/2009/11/09/theres-no-argument-against-holmgren-it-just-has-to-happen/comment-page-1/#comment-9133</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith Vlasak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 15:29:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ohiomm.com/blogs/mcmanamon/?p=4729#comment-9133</guid>
		<description>All of the Jets brought in who couldn&#039;t even manage to be an upgrade over the Browns of last year they replaced, getting rid of playmakers because Mangini doesn&#039;t like players with egos to match their talents, the play of both quarterbacks this year as opposed to last year (when the Browns stunk and the coach and GM were fired), and a draft strategy of trading down to make sure the Browns don&#039;t get anyone who might have an ego to match their talent -- all mean to me that anyone with real and actually established skill level for evaluating players and making roster moves is absolutely necessary for the Browns before the next draft at the very latest.  Holmgren would do quite nicely!

If we could get him now, there might be moves that can be forced on Mangini -- such as who plays or some modification in offensive strategy.

And to those who criticize Parcells because the Dolphins don&#039;t average 11-5 every year since he came, I would suggest that a dip like Henne was against Ohio State year after year isn&#039;t quite how he&#039;s playing as a pro and somebody had to project that ... or consider Hartline with Miami versus Robiskie with the Browns.

Truly, someone who has years of experience (and a couple of Super Bowl appearances) evaluating the roster and coaches of the Browns going forward would be the absolute best we fans can expect of the owner!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All of the Jets brought in who couldn&#039;t even manage to be an upgrade over the Browns of last year they replaced, getting rid of playmakers because Mangini doesn&#039;t like players with egos to match their talents, the play of both quarterbacks this year as opposed to last year (when the Browns stunk and the coach and GM were fired), and a draft strategy of trading down to make sure the Browns don&#039;t get anyone who might have an ego to match their talent &#8212; all mean to me that anyone with real and actually established skill level for evaluating players and making roster moves is absolutely necessary for the Browns before the next draft at the very latest.  Holmgren would do quite nicely!</p>
<p>If we could get him now, there might be moves that can be forced on Mangini &#8212; such as who plays or some modification in offensive strategy.</p>
<p>And to those who criticize Parcells because the Dolphins don&#039;t average 11-5 every year since he came, I would suggest that a dip like Henne was against Ohio State year after year isn&#039;t quite how he&#039;s playing as a pro and somebody had to project that &#8230; or consider Hartline with Miami versus Robiskie with the Browns.</p>
<p>Truly, someone who has years of experience (and a couple of Super Bowl appearances) evaluating the roster and coaches of the Browns going forward would be the absolute best we fans can expect of the owner!</p>
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