What's left to blog on the Browns?
Let's do some quick hits, then I'm going to post an entire Jamal Lewis postgame interview. I have great admiration for Lewis as a professional. As a result, I give great weight to what he says. First, though:
–Randy Lerner spoke to three of us after the game and he seemed as disappointed, angry and perplexed as anyone. One point he made was when I asked him directly: Will you consider changing the coach during the bye week? His answer: No.
–Said Lerner: "I can't fault anybody for their criticism. I absolutely can't. I feel like St. Anthony."
–Another question that comes from this game: What in the world did Brady Quinn do to be buried deeper on the bench than Gerard Lawson? Derek Anderson's first-half rating was 0.0. He had two completions fumbled over to the Bears in the second half, but his play is wild and erratic. Anderson's footwork doesn't resemble that of the guy the guy who dropped back two years ago and threw 29 touchdowns, and his arm motion is wildly inconsistent.
–Yet Quinn remains buried.
–I asked Quinn if he had a confrontation with Mangini, if he challenged him in any way. Quinn said no and added: "You don't need to fabricate things."
–Anderson's rating for the game was 10.5. Ben Roethlisberger probably had more yards per attempt in the Steelers' win over the Browns.
–Good thing they acquired Chansi Stuckey.
–Combined scores the past two weeks: Green Bay and Chicago 61, Browns 9.
–The Browns blamed turnovers for the loss, which is kind of like saying a loose shingle caused the house to fall in a hurricane. That being said, they had some bad ones. Problem is they always seem to have bad ones … week after week after week.
–When it happens week after week after week the problem is more than one game. It's systemic.
–Said Anderson: "It's ridiculous. If it's not one guy it's another guy. If it's not one thing it's another thing. Obviously we control it, and have to control it. But it's stupid."
–Can't really argue that point.
–The Browns are off next Sunday, then play Baltimore on Monday night. ESPN has to be wondering what it did to earn a Cleveland appearance on national TV.
–Folks can say what they want, but it's hard to believe the team "buys into" what Mangini is doing.
As for the Lewis interview … here it is:
Q. This has to be torture for you.
A. Most definitely. (Lewis then said the turnovers killed the Browns, and said he never really got the ball on his fumbled exchange with Anderson).
Q. Nobody really could have expected a 1-7 start, right?
A. Not the way we work. The way we work in practice, the way we work in training camp I wouldn’t have expected it either. You just have to put the pieces of the puzzle together and find out what are we really trying to do. I'm sure that is win, but it's how we're trying to win. How are we trying to win? What are we trying to do? I think that's what everybody is trying to figure out.
Q. When you say that, is it specifically the offense you mean?
A. As a team. Period. We all got to move in one direction. We all want to win. We all want to come out with a W at the end of the day. That's as a whole. I'm just not talking about the Xs and Os. I'm talking about where are we trying to go and what are we trying to accomplish? Once we figure that out then hopefully we can put it all together.
Q. Do you have an understanding where you're trying to go?
A. No. I don't have an understanding. I just know we're trying to win. I know we want to win, but at the same time a lot comes with winning. A lot comes with the formula, with your chemistry. What are you trying to do, as far as offensively, defensively? How are you trying to make this work? How is the offense trying to complement the offense? How is the defense trying to complement the offense? What are we trying to put together? We figure that out, we'll be all right.
Q. How is it possible in the eighth week of the season that you don't even know …?
A. Just look. It's 1-and-7. That's how it's possible.
Q. This must be hard for you?
A. It is. Very. Very hard. I think this is my last year. I think this is it. The way this looks .. you know … I had a good run.
Q. This year?
A. It might be.
Q. This would be a tough way to go out, no?
A. It would be, but at the same time I stuck my neck out, you know what I mean? I wanted to come in and help and do what I could do. Even though I knew the consequence. I knew what we had and what we were going to be dealing with. Being we did have a new person, you do have new people coming in, new coaches and a new staff. There's a lot that goes with that. I just wanted to come in here and help. Do what I could do. But like I said. I don't know what's going on. In the past, where I've been … that's never happened. It's just a different style of play. I don't know. I don't know what to say.
Q. You mean last year, with the Browns or period?
A. Period. Period, point blank. Like I said, I've done what I've needed to do. Just really trying to help. Just do my job. Do what I do. That's run the football. Try to put something together. Try to help win.
Q. Did you ever have a sense at any point that you had a grasp of what you guys as a team were trying to get done?
A. At the beginning of the season… not the beginning of the season but the beginning of training camp and everything … going out and working as hard as we did in training camp. Laying it on the line. Buying in to everything that's going on. Buying in to the system. That's what needed to happen. I think that everybody bought in. Everybody bought in. That's when you did have a real clue of where we were going, and what we were trying to do. But then once things start going, week after week after week after week, it just seemed like a blur. Like I said, we just have to go back to the drawing board, take this bye week and try to find out what we really want to do. Find out what where we really want to go. Even though you're 1-and-7, there's still a lot that can go on. There's still a lot you can accomplish. That's getting that chemistry down and trying to figure out what you really want to do as a team. Like I said, we got a bye week where we can go in and try to correct those mistakes and figure this thing out. We come out against Baltimore and try to put it all together. That's it. That's all that we can do.
Q. It sounds like you're touching on the coach. Are you?
A. I'm touching on nobody. I'm not touching on the coach. He's not the one who's responsible for … we're all responsible too. We're all men. We're all men. We're all men. That's something that we have to figure out. We have to know where we're trying to go. It’s not about the coach. It's about us as whole, period.
Q. Is this frustration speaking?
A. When I talk, I mean what I say. And I think you all know that from me. You can answer that.
{ 37 comments… read them below or add one }
What disingenuous hooey from Lewis. He says he came back because he thought he could make a difference. Uhh …. OK. I'm sure the $3.5 million roster bonus, the $2.4 million base salary, and who knows how much more in incentives had absolutely nothing to do with it.
By the way, why isn't any sportswriter pointing out the plain fact that the last touchdown was on Wimbley? Not only is the roster now devoid of talent, but it also has got to be among the dumbest collection of folks to put on a uniform, even more dumb than Bernie Kosar's decision to dress up as Bernie Madoff on Halloween.
Most players would have gone for the interception to pad their stats and get their incentive pay. But Wimbley instead does what he thinks is the totally unselfish thing to do, but the totally right thing to do. On a 4th and goal pass, he bats down the ball in the end zone instead of easily intercepting and running with it. Good thinking. Just one problem: His unselfishness kicked the Browns in the plums harder than Ron Behagen plant his knee into Luke Witte's package. So Anderson instead was forced to take possession of the ball at the 1 instead of the 15 or even the 25, thus forcing him to be pinned deep in the end zone, thereby giving him no space and created the defensive line pressure which caused the subsequent Chicago interception that was returned for a touchdown. Great job, Kam!
Pat, thanks for this interview. As fans we can get so caught up in our frustrations that we can forget about what professionals like Jamal Lewis are going through. He earned a Super Bowl ring and now he has to survive this. I know he gets paid good money but it's real hard when you can't take professional pride in your work.
Actually, come to think of it, all Wimbley had to do was intercept it and take a knee if he didn't feel like running. Ball is at the 20. How dumb.
I'm not even sure that Wimbley could have caught that interception. And if he did, I doubt he would have had the awareness to down it in the end zone immediately to get the ball on the 20.
I'm sure that Jamal knows there were rumors that he wouldn't make the final roster cut this year, let alone making the team next year after Mangini has seen his "one yard and a cloud of dust" act.
Come on, Bill. If Lewis was getting paid the vet's minimum instead of his enormously undeserved Ilgauskas-like pay, realistically, how "professional" would he be? If you look back in the Beacon Journal's and Plain Dealer's archives, you will read the exact same nonsense quotes that the local sportswriters extracted last season from Willie McGinest's grossly overpaid mouth. They show up for work and give effort. Whoopie. Why do they deserve a symbolic game ball for that? It's their job.
Brian, it was right in his hands. Find a replay. He intentionally batted it instead of catching it. And you're right, he would not have had the awareness anyway, which is my point. He, like the majority of the roster, ain't all that smart.
oh alan your a funny man
I don't understand the vitriol for Lewis. Yes he makes a ridiculous amount of money. Yes, most athletes make ridiculous sums of money. What do we expect? Him to turn down the contract? "No thanks, that's too much money."
At the end of the day he's being paid to play football, he's certainly not the greatest running back we've ever had, but he tries and he's accountable with the media. What are we asking for here… Just for him to be better?
yes.
Do you really think it would have mattered if he had caught the interception and got a touchback? Really? Of all the things to complain about, you pick THAT?
dwhit, there's no vitriol. But it is beyond silly to admire a grossly overpaid veteran that purports to be playing out of professionalism, while at the same time he is literally earning millions more (and that's net, not gross!) than his performance otherwise deems is his actual worth.
I mean, he shows up for work and supposedly gives 100%. Who cares? Who cares what Lewis has to say? Who cares what McGinest had to say? Both grossly overpaid vets who put on an air of superiority simply because they claim to be giving all they've got and they've got pride. OK, then go to Drug Mart and buy yourselves some stick-on medals. The two of you can certainly afford it.
Uh … fake alan t. It was simply a simple example of just how stupid the players are, even when they think they're doing the right thing. It shows how stupid the players are, it shows how woefully inadequate their coaching has been. I apologize if the point flew right over your head like a football flying over Mohamed Massaquoi's head after running another wrong route.
Holy cow. terje will appreciate this, but nobody else. Who cares. I'm watching KISS whoring themselves on TV right now doing some promo interview, and I never realized Eric Singer is such a dwarf. He's wearing 8" heels, and he still wouldn't tower over Muggsy Bogues. Crazy.
"Will you consider changing the coach during the bye week? His answer: No."
what a tool. without his father's money i doubt the man could feed himself.
kiss whoring themselves???
NEVER!
I (pretend understand…wink, wink) that Lewis didn't want to call out the coaching staff publicly….but, come on…who ELSE is responsible for "the direction of the team, understanding where we want to go?" Mr. Lerner: Wake up, the players themselves are giving you the answer you can't figure out for yourself. Mangini not only hasn't "got thru" to these players, they don't have a clue–if the BallBoy, himself, does–as to what they're doing. Of course they haven't "bought in" to this guy's plan. No one even knows what it is. He's the BallBoy, Randy….the BALL BOY. You hired the BALL BOY. Is that sinking in??
The only way to rectify this mess is to clear this group out of here; the fans will never, repeat NEVER accept them. Keeping Mangini around simply prolongs the agony and losing. Cut bait now. Work with Bernie to bring in the next coach; he should've been a consultant from the word "go." At least he has an offensive PLAN. I've heard more intelligent offensive strategy coming from his short TV analysis than from months of nonsensical rambling by the Water Boy.
The next coach MUST be an OFFENSIVE MIND. No more defensive coaches! Look how many of those we've hired and failed with! Offensive is our problem. PLEASE, I beg of you, hire an offensive minded coach.
Belichick would release Anderson tomorrow, citing "diminishing skills."
Any sane person would fire Mangini and his staff tomorrow, citing "no skills."
Mr. Lerner, exactly WHAT are you seeing in Mangini that the average person isn't? From local fan to national media experts, this guy is called the "worst hire in the history of NFL football." Is this really the guy you're pinning all your hopes on? If so, we're doomed.
Firing Mangini during the bye week is the only sensible thing to do at this point, because you must stop the bleeding. Mangini is too stubborn to change his thinking and he has drawn the wrath of people and fans across the country. He has now brought the team down to its lowest point ever, and I mean ever. As in since the team was formed back in the late 1940's!!! Playing a Quarterback with a 10.5 rating??? Keeping a number one draft pick on the bench until the last 3 minutes of a game??? When you are behind 30 to 6??? I'm glad I did not watch the game, but my radio sure got plenty of verbal abuse. What an EMBARRASSING team we have!!!
Watching the Browns play any team is like watching the Washington Generals play the Globetrotters.
What's even more of a concern is Lerner possibly considering Kosar for anything in the future more than being his personal spy. Never mind that he was never anything more than a less photogenic Brian Griese with a weird throwing motion.
I mean, let's get serious. The guy has been begging management-types to get back into either collegiate football or NFL football for the last 15 years. Nobody has even given him a whiff. Why not? Because they think he'd be a bumbling idiot. Heck, he couldn't even run a freakin' Arena League team for less than a year without stiffing the franchise's owner for a loan of $750K.
The guy apparently has a drinking and a drug problem. The guy has problems with depression. The guy can't balance his own checkbook. The guy is disorganized in a major way. The guy can't handle multiple tasks. I mean, the guy literally can't even cut a loaf of bread without first getting power tools from Ace Hardware. He's been out of professional football for over 15 years, which is 10 years more away from the league than unqualified Sherman Lewis, a guy who has 11 years of coaching experience already under his belt. Kosar doesn't have a day of professional experience, let alone 11 years. Being the public face of an Arena Football franchise? Big deal. So was Bon Jovi. Lerner should hire him, he could be Cribbs' hair coach.
Giving Mangini the keys to both the house and the car? Idiotic. Giving Kosar any real football responsibilities would seal the deal that Lerner has absolutely no idea what he is doing, and probably never will. Let Kosar greet customers at the Browns restaurant, like Austin Carr used to do in the 90s for season-ticket holders at the Gund's restaurant. Perfect job for him. And while he's greeting folks at the restaurant, the chef can teach him how to perfectly slice a pumpernickel.
Alan makes some valid points about Bernie. I wouldn't rush him into "too" much responsibility too quickly. He does have some offensive knowledge, moreso than any of our current staff members, I'd wager; he just speaks common sense playcalling, such as "don't run right into a pile" and "throw the ball long often"….stuff I don't trust Mangini and Daboll to do right.
The fact that Lewis said twice he is NOT sure of what they are trying to accomplish here is proof that Mangini is NO LEADER of any kind. He has destroyed what little of a team we had with he ego-manica stunts. This guy is a menace to the game and to this team.
He needs to go NOW!
If they don't fire Mangini, then Daboll and whoever the joke of an offensive line coach need to go — save some face for the love of Pete (or whoever you want to invoke). Let the best thing to happen to coaching since the sweater vest and fedora run the offense all on his own — he's a control freak, this should be right up his alley.
I think I'll be doing some homework on Aston Villa. When they needed to change coaches, did they?
@ The fact that Lewis said twice he is NOT sure of what they are trying to accomplish here is proof that Mangini is NO LEADER of any kind. He has destroyed what little of a team we had with he ego-manica stunts. This guy is a menace to the game and to this team. He needs to go NOW!
Well said, Ned Parks. Eight games into a season, and the star running back has "no idea" what the team is doing? Mr. Lerner….I know you said yesterday that you wouldn't fire the coach during the bye week, but PLEASE RECONSIDER. End this horrible, horrible debacle now. It WON'T get any better, only worse, the longer you wait. The franchise cannot afford to keep Mangini in town; he is destroying the Browns brick by brick, and to think he could re-build it properly….you're only fooling yourself, sir.
Wow. Amazing, isn't it? A year ago, fans were screaming for Savage/Crennell's collective heads. The fans got what they wanted. Now the grass happens to look just a little greener on the other side of the fence with Crennell, huh?
It's amazing that Cleveland fans refuse to see/believe what other fans have been saying….automatic dismissal because they aren't "Browns fans". You see unfortunately, fans of other teams happen to live in and near Cleveland, and are thus "required" to watch the Browns games and can see what is going on. I said it last year, and I'll say it again:
1. Many Browns fans were going to be completely bent out of shape because WHOMEVER came in here as the new coach was going to open the club house door, toss in a stick of dynomite, and start all over. Talent? There is/was very little talent in Cleveland. KW2? Didn't want to be there, spent more time off the field than on it; wanted more money than he was ever going to be worth; attitude flat out sucks. Edwards? Uncoachable talent. Clearly didn't want to be there; is/was a prima donna of Owens/Johnson proportions; never was that good as a receiver. Neither of these two were players that you could build a franchise around and count on to be veterans/team leaders. Mangini did good getting what he did for these two…at the end of the year, they would have walked away for nothing….
2) Coach: Mangini was as good as it was going to get for Cleveland. Cowher did not and does not want anything to do with the Cleveland Browns. All of Lerner's money in the world won't lure Cowher to Cleveland. Cowher doesn't need Lerner's money. How many years did Cowher coach against the Browns? You think as an opposing head coach that he doesn't know enough about the Browns to have made a decision to stay away? And before the talk starts about "Cowher was a Brown"; yep, no denying it. but when it came time for Cowher to move up the coaching ranks, it wasn't the cleveland Browns who provided that opportunity, was it?
3) QB's: Simple…you ain't got one. DA was a one season wonder. That's it. Everyone said DA should have been traded….for what? No one was going to give Cleveland a bag of pretzels and a football tee for a one hit wonder who proved absolutely nothing in his NFL career. And Quinn? ROFLMAO. Holds out his first year after being taken #22 in a draft where Savage ransomed the farm to get him. Ever wonder WHY the great BQ's draft stock fell like a rock? Ever think about that? Mangini had a mediocre Joey Harrington as his QB, and Kellen Clemmens as his back up. Yet when the J-E-T-S Jets, Jets, Jets picked AHEAD of the Browns, BQ was left sitting. Miami needed a QB, and THEY selected Ted Guinn, Jr. while leaving BQ sitting there. Wonder WHY? After last season, QB's in the NFL like Sage Rosenfels and Dan Orlovsky were the subjects of trades. Yet BQ was never discussed. Wonder WHY?
4) Overall talent: I don't believe that there are any othe rplayers on the Browns roster (I'll include Edwards and Winslow in this) other than Joe Thomas and potentially Shaun Rogers who could actually start on any other NFL team. No one.
Yeah, Mangini brought in some borderline talent from the Jets, but he did so for a reason: he's IS trying to instill a new culture and direction for the Browns. He needed players who have experienced the culture and direction to help in the transformation. give it time. Fans should have seen a complete blow-up of the roster coming….if you didn't you had your Browns-colored glasses clouding your view.
pfffffft.
i'm sure you'd be supporting mangini if he were steelers coach. my a–.
dude, you obviously know very little about the browns. did you know the browns could have had josh mcdaniel? an unknown is better than mangini—a known failure.
mangini's "culture"? that got him FIRED from new york and is going to end his brief, pathetic tenure in cleveland pretty fast (god willing).
"Mangini did good getting what he did for these two"
that's another dumb statement. mangini was offered MORE for edwards before the season started. not to mention what he could have gotten for either quinn or anderson. honestly, stick with something you know about like how to whistle through your missing teeth or giving your sister moonshine and taking her on a date underneath your trailer.
terje: you can place your cute little personal attacks where the sun don't shine. Like I said, attack and dismiss.
Want to try to convince anyone that Mangini had the witch-like ability to know before the season started that Edwards was going to refuse to man up and be a ball player, instead of the tank job that he DID?
Mangini's "culture" did not get him fired in NY. It was the failure of an injured QB to get them into the playoffs that got Mangini fired in NY. Mangini became a scapegoat for the failed Favre experiment in NY.
So…what exactly was it that indicated at the time Lerner was interviewing coaching candidates that indicated that McDaniel would make a great HC? Or is your hind-sight of half a football season great enough to make that determination? Or was it the similarities in the Broncos and Browns' rosters?
Browns' biggest coaching mistake? Automatic thought process that says that the Bellichick tree is the best and final location to find the best and greatest coaches in the NFL. sort of like continually raiding the Ravens for GM's…….
normally i refrain from too many personal attacks but since you're a steelers fan it's justified.
"Mangini's "culture" did not get him fired in NY. It was the failure of an injured QB to get them into the playoffs that got Mangini fired in NY. Mangini became a scapegoat for the failed Favre experiment in NY."
mangini's decision to take over the offensive playcalling, continuing to play an injured favre and a complete player revolt got him fired in new york. of course you don't know any of that because of appalachian inbreeding that affects most steeler fans.
"So…what exactly was it that indicated at the time Lerner was interviewing coaching candidates that indicated that McDaniel would make a great HC? Or is your hind-sight of half a football season great enough to make that determination? Or was it the similarities in the Broncos and Browns' rosters?"
you could say the same thing about the steelers hiring of mike tomlin since the obvious choices at the time seemed to be russ grimm or ken whisenhunt. but since you're a steelers fan you know that….right?
Please provide proof of your assertion of a "complete player revolt" in NY leading to mangini's firing.
Actually, no, you can't say the same thing about the Steelers hiring Tomlin. You see, GOOD teams, with GOOD ownership, GOOD players, and winning traditions don't "fire" coaches….much like the Browns have done over the past 10 years. Tomlin got the best of both worlds…a championship franchise AND a head coaching gig…much like Cowher did.
BTW, you were pimping McDaniel ( dude, you obviously know very little about the browns. did you know the browns could have had josh mcdaniel? an unknown is better than mangini—a known failure.) not I. You asserted that McDaniel would have been a better selection than Mangini, not I. So why do you believe that? Because of what he has done in Denver w/ the Broncos? Like I said, Cleveland and Denver are worlds apart on the talent/roster level from Denver. You think McDaniels would have kept KW2 and Edwards (or Anderson, or Brady, or anyone else)? Cleveland fans were deluded into thinking that there was actually "talent" in cleveland…NOT!
Hey, "SteelerNation," I realize you're a kid in your 20s, if that, but the fact of the matter is your precious franchise was an absolute atrocity for decades. That's decades. And that's under the same Family ownership. Give this version of the Browns a few decades more than the one decade they've had to stink to date, and then get back to me and we can have a semi-meaningful discussion about which franchise actually stunk more.
This team is a joke. The laughing stock of the NFL.
We have absolutley no talent. Maybe 4 or 5 guys on this whole team that would start for a contender.
The coaching stinks as bad as the players. There is no professional style of play calling at all on this team.
Now we have two cellar dwellars in Cleveland sports. The Browns and the Indians.
"Please provide proof of your assertion of a "complete player revolt" in NY leading to mangini's firing."
it's all out there for you to find. since you don't know about this i'm just going to assume you know next to nothing about just about everything.
Scott, give it a year, and then you can post about the three cellar dwellers in Cleveland sports, all with the bright neon lights of sleazeball Gilbert's casino glistening in the background like pornographic Hanukkah decorations. Whatta town. I'd say I'm ashamed of being born there, but they've even torn down and blew up my downtown Mount Sinai. It would seem like overkill to say it. I wonder what's there now. Probably a decaying parking lot and a couple of crack houses.
You only missed by about thirty years, skippy. I remember very well how "bad" the steelers were in the 60's prior to hiring a guy by the name of Knoll and drafting a defensive tackle by the name of Greene.
terje, nice cop out…you see, every team has its loud mouth players who dislike everything about the team, coaches, fans, etc. (Webster's dictionary has pictures of BE and KW2 next to its definition for this).
the difference in this case is that those "loud mouth players" are the leaders of the jets team. it's hardly a cop out when the fact is that mangini LOST HIS JOB during a winning season. and this wasn't marty's 14-2. tannenbaum knew that mangini was the WRONG GUY FOR THE JOB.
The 60s? How 'bout the 50s. And the 40s. And the 30s.
Oh, and if you're the President of SteelerNation, then you should at least spell the name of the guy correctly. It was Noll. Not Knoll. Noll. That's like the head of the American Nazi Party spelling the guy's name as Hatler. Which leads me to believe I was right. A kid in his 20s.
Bottom line, why are you even posting here? Akron isn't Pittsburgh, pal.