My column for tomorrow's Beacon Journal: It's time to admit a mistake with Eric Mangini.
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Another thought on Mangini
This entry was posted in Browns, Eric Mangini, McManamon, Randy Lerner, Rob Ryan and tagged Cleveland Browns, Eric Mangini. Bookmark the permalink.
pat, the mangini apologists and the berea footsoldiers will be out in full force for this article. not surprisingly, i commend you for writing it. with most cleveland sportswriters it's always a day late and a dollar short. like pluto writing a few weeks back about romeo's "country club" training camp when he NEVER wrote anything negative about crennel until late last year when the tide had already turned.
there is no legitimate reason to wait a single second to fire mangini. he's the wrong guy for the browns or any other team in the nfl.
I watched the Jets-Raiders game today. Bill Callahan now runs the Jets' offense. At the end of the game, a player and Rex Ryan dumped the Gatorade thermos over Callahan's head. I repeat, the Jets head coach took one side of the thermos and dumped it onto an assistant coach's head. Can you imagine Louis Anderson ever dumping anything on Rob Ryan's head?
Did I just say Louis Anderson? I meant Louie Anderson. Louie hates to be called Louis.
yes i can. mangini is currently dumping a figurative bucket of feces on the head of every browns fan in the world
pat, i'm also very happy to see this article written in a northeastern ohio newspaper. thanks for voicing what any browns fan with a shred of insight is thinking.
as for the comments about pluto, i have to admit–i'm also getting annoyed with his effusive praise for cleveland coaches or players while they're with cleveland, only to see his critiques surface when they're fired or leave for somewhere else.
You're just now getting "annoyed? Pluto has been been pulling that crapola since he became a columnist 16 years ago. I gotta hand it to the Irish guy, a man with genuine cajones. Now, if I can only persuade him to grow another set of plums for that post-LeBron era.
Oh, and absolutely nothing to do with the Browns, but the first game of the World Series is Sabathia vs. Lee. Is that freakin' awesome, or what? Can't wait for that 2011 fantasy Super Bowl, when it's the NFC's Brady Quinn vs. the AFC's Chaz Frye.
What's next? Franchise contraction or call for Lerner to sell? I would have offered relocation but…
I stopped reading Pluto when he shared his "addiction" to porn with his readers. As for the Browns, Dandy should sell the team.
I was looking at our roster yesterday and realized that with the exception of like five guys, it looks like a strike roster: all the guys who weren't ready for primetime to begin with and they all ended up getting the call because the real players went on strike.
Its fine if you have a couple 'fringe players' on roster, but not an entire roster full of them. And the losing mentality with this organization isn't going to change by staying the course.
It's silly season in here. The Browns are woeful right now but firing the coach seven games in will simply cause more chaos and uncertainty. The team will show improvement in the second half, I believe, but in any case the local media proved its lack of objectivity in regard to Mangini from the get-go and calls for firings at this point should be taken with a grain of salt.
Its is much easier to be critical than correct.
Pat,
I could not agree with you more Pat. Great story in the paper today!
I've always had suspicions about some of these commentors, but their postings above pretty much confirm: They are utterly clueless.
Somehow, they think Mangini is gonna magically "turn this thing around?" Seriously? He turned over 40% of the roster with his own guys, completely botched the Draft, has alienated everyone from the media to the players, caused Cleveland to become a national laughingstock, conducted the biggest farce of a QB "competition" (only to end after the "secrecy" fiasco and 10 quarters)….and you clowns want him to CONTINUE? To screw up yet ANOTHER draft? To continue repelling free agents like mosquitos and Off?
My, oh, my. I get it now. I totally get why the Browns continue to sell $100 tickets for an embarrassing product. The fanbase is totally insane.
it's great how mangini apologists can't point to anything specific to back their points. it's just all generalities about "continuity", "process" and "discipline" or inane comparisons to winning coaches. they can't use his jets tenure as an example because regardless of the oft repeated 2 out of 3 winning seasons he was still deservedly fired. they can't speak about his experience because outside of the jets he never had any significant responsibility as a coach. they can't point to any tangible progress with the browns because there has only been regression and vague promises of improvement. they can't legitimately compare belichick and mangini because bill b. had a lot of experience before coaching the browns and humbled himself after his first failure by returning to parcells.
so lovers of "continuity", "process" and "discipline" what can you offer in mangini's defense? the hope that the browns can show false improvement because they play detroit, jacksonville, kansas city and oakland in the second half? the 2010 draft when mangini has one questionable draft with real input under his belt? i challenge any of you to make your case with tangible proof and leave out the false comparisons and platitudes. i doubt it can be done.
Bring the blonde-haired boy from Monday Night Football in here immediately. He's been to two Super Bowls and knows how to run a draft. The fans should have known when Lerner's plane touched down in Baltimore with Modell on board that he wasn't the man to be involved with the new Browns. Luckily, he's long gone, but his seed still survives to haunt our franchise.
joyce, i love it. nothing about me in the post and a great point to boot.
Maybe it's his "I'm gonna tell on you!" crybaby trait that the apologists love so much. For a guy who likes to compare himself to Belichick (the only comparison is in their antisocial demeanor, BTW), how quickly did the disciple turn on his beloved "mentor" by exposing the secret filming escapade and FOREVER tainting the Belichik Legacy. I mean, how much did WaterBoy HATE Belichik to do such a thing?
You say, "But it was illegal!" Sure it was. But it was okay for Mangini—until it affected HIM? Real nice, for a guy who likes to fine everyone for every little rules infraction. Come on, people, wake up and see this pathetic little man for what he is. A loser in every sense of the word.
I must disagree with that mosquitoes and Off simile above. Or is it a metaphor, I always get that confused. First, Off causes cancer. I mean, think about it, you're spraying a freakin' pesticide on yourself … Wait a minute. Maybe comparing Louie Anderson to a pesticide is accurate. But comparing prospective free agents to mosquitoes? I don't know.
By the way, is that really you, larry d.? I never know who is really who anymore. That can't be you, because you're writing like a Stepford wife.
In McManamon's Monday morning article about time to admit a mistake hiring Mangini, McManamon just gets finished quoting Pittsburg's offensive coordinator, Bruce Arians, about how predictable our defense is. Patrick then goes on to point out how the Brown's defensive coordinator didn't make adjustments and got torched with big plays by the Packers in the first quarter.
Guess who McManamon is nominating for interim coach after the Browns dump Mangini? Yep, you got it, Rob Ryan, the same bone-head who can't make an adjustment from quarter to quarter, or game to game?
The thing that we all can agree on is that this team sucks, and we can cheer all we want, but they have to make plays. Dropped passes, throws into double and triple coverage, inaccurate throws, locking in on one receiver, missed tackles, coverage confusion… you name it, we do it wrong! Fundamentals that are ALL correctable mistakes. It's up to the coach to motivate the players to WANT to correct these mistakes. At least we don't have to cheer for people who blame others for their own mistakes. All of our players who were interviewed know it's up to them to get it right. They didn't make excuses. Keep giving them a chance to do just that, including Brady Quinn, until Anderson shows improvement, play each of them equally. One game fro Anderson, one game for Quinn. Looks like it's Quinn's turn now!
People are all moaning and talk. Do the little guys really want to affect change? There is one legitimate opportunity. Here's a thought, but perhaps it makes too much sense. After all, Cleveland fans aren't the brightest bulbs on the planet.
The next home game is in three weeks. After next week's road game, there is a bye. After that? A nationally-televised cable game on Monday night. Against the very team that Lerner's very own father helped hijack.
It's a publicly-funded stadium. Therefore, First Amendment and all. Bring signs viciously attacking Lerner. The more clever and cerebral cut-throat signs, the better. Bring signs attacking Mangini. Bring paper bags for your heads. Nobody likes to be openly mocked on TV, not even billionaires getting psyched for the World Cup.
We have a bye week after Chicago. Bounce a couple assistant coaches and make a statement to your fan base that you're just as disgusted with this product as they are. I want some coaches in here with some experience, and not with the Jets under Mangini.
I'm kinda with Joyce: bring on Chuckie! (Jon Gruden) or see if you can get Shanahan. I don't know why we're in such a hurry around here in Cleveland to make desperate head coaching/managing moves.
BTW: I know we can't get coaches in mid-season… but pink-slip some of these guys and start planning for next season.
Uh … the reason Rob Ryan "is being nominated" is because the season is already history. They gotta stick somebody in there as head coach (and as GM, with apologies to the figurehead sitting there now). It's irrelevant it's Ryan. But firing Mangini now would send a strong signal and eliminate the uncertainty of the question, "Will he be here next season?" By firing him early, it also gives prospective head coaches an early heads-up.
exactly alan. ryan is a good as anyone to lead this broken team for the rest of the year. there are too many solid coaches watching football at home or on the set on sunday too continue with this travesty engineered by mangini.
Is it possible that Mangini solid Lerner on being an absolutely crap-tastic team this season and that he's going to get another year to fix this mess?
(Keep in mind I'm not saying this is the right move, or what's going on, I'm just positing here… but do me a favor and here me out.)
So Mangini comes in. He and his crew evaluate the roster. He tells Lerner that we have 8 guys who are actually NFL roster caliber on the roster, and no QB. He explains how Savage screwed the pooch, that's why they clean house when everyone thought we were going to hang onto that one front office guy who's name escapes me who they thought we'd keep for continuity's sake and because Kokinis had never run a draft. The last front office blew, so they completely clean house.
From there he says the plan is to trade anything that other teams might want for anything we can use to be better in the future (hello Braylon and K2 and the #5 for draft picks). He's going to sign a bunch of guys who are borderline stiffs this season, because who we have stinks anyways, but this way he can get the Cap Space back in order and he knows these guys will behave and help him build the culture he wants. But since we have little talent anyways and have no chance at making the playoffs he's going to blow it up and blow it sky high, building around Cribbs, DQ, Wright, Thomas, Rogers, and seeing if any of the young unproven players like Wimbley, Pool, Harrison, Vickers, McDonald etc are worth anything (and some are, while some are not). He's going to jerk BQ around as soon as it's evident to all that he's not the answer at QB because he doesn't want to take the cap hit on his escalators. In the meantime he's going to plan to build the team this offseason through the draft with all the acquired picks and through FA.
Again, I'm not saying this is true, and maybe Mangini just totally sucks (or is magically going to turn it around) like the two camps who have seemed to respond to this say. I'm just playing Devils Advocate here and saying (hoping) maybe there's some system at work here and there's a method to the madness that has become this season. I mean it might be a REMOTE possibility, but it's possible… right?
dwhit, i don't think you're far off. but i don't think the ultimate goal is a winning team. the method is to get mangini to a contract extension. since year one is a write off and year two not much better than he can point to year three's mediocre performance as improvement and get the contract most coaches in year three of a four year deal would expect. just like romeo.
since mangini has virtually no body of work to draw from except a failed stint as jets coach the only thing he can sell lerner is promises. promises that will make mangini more wealthy and the browns franchise more desolate.
I'm not writing like a Stepford wife, alan t. I'm writing like a fellow who has seen teams switch coaches all my life and knows that a Stepien-like carousel of them never ends in winning. The Stepford wives are those who buy Pat's axe grinding fest without any sort of perspective.
You can downplay it all you want, terje, but two playoff teams in three years isn't so bad. I have my doubts about ManWeenie, and these first games have obviously sucked, but he's been a head coach in 55 NFL games now and your insistence that he's not experienced doesn't make sense.
Also, let me say that I'm far from in love with Mangini or the job that he's done, but I do feel like an article calling for Mangini's job from the same guy who was screaming about how terrible of a choice he was for the job and how this franchise was going to hell in a hand basket because Mangini made the media's job harder is a tad self serving.
We know you don't like him Pat. I'm hopeful that he has a plan (like I outlined above) and that we'll see it play out into next season. I think we all knew that we were going to be pretty bad this year. So we've been horrendously bad instead. Either way, they're still losses.
Terje,
Sounds like we're on the same page. I'm just hoping that the end of the tunnel is a couple of playoff appearance. Not a 7-9 record and a contract extension.
"two playoff teams in three years isn't so bad"
not quite. it's one playoff game in three years (a loss). his first year. you can attribute much of that success to herm edwards.
and my experience point is very valid. he had virtually no experience as a high level coach when the jets hired him. if his winning seasons were valued highly he would still be in new york. that he isn't makes him look worse not better. new york realized their mistake and fired a coach who started a season 8-3. mangini had lost the respect of the players, made horrendous play calls, mismanaged the clock in games and kept key personnel on the bench instead of in the game.
larry, please point to tangible evidence that mangini was ever a successful high level coach. his one year as d coordinator under belichick was miserable–in the bottom third of the nfl. his one playoff year was after edwards who–at the time–was apparently worth a draft choice to acquire. his second year was dismal. and his third year got him canned. i'm not seeing it and i can't for the life of me figure out what mangini's supporters are basing their opinions on.
*I flubbed that first paragraph… meant to say that Pat's been calling for his head before Mangini even gave his introductory press conference.
…Ok, done flooding the comment board for a while.
dwhit, even if mangini's grand scheme has a payoff that includes playoffs he has never shown that he can coach in meaningful games. remember, romeo managed to beat him TWICE. so let's say the team does improve….do we have to wait another three or four years for mangini to learn how to coach in important games? he does not have the body of work previous to his jets job to support that he can handle the job.
terje,
You make a good point, and to be fair I'd feel much better about my Devils Advocate scenario if the protagonist had GM experience, not just (limited) coaching experience.
I'd certainly be happy if they showed Mangini the door, I just don't think it's going to happen because he sold Lerner on a long term plan, and I think it's a little funny that Pat has had such a gigantic axe to grind against him since the day he interviewed.
Sorry, terje–two winning seasons in three, I meant. I'd take that in Cleveland right now, in any case. He's also still got 55 games under his belt, which is experience, no matter how many times you claim it doesn't. By your logic, Marty Schottenheimer doesn't have any experience because he's been fired everywhere he's coached. And what if the Jets make the playoffs this year? Your logic would give him credit for that, as well.
larry, what Stepien "coaching carousel" involved handing off the entire operation, coaching, personnel and all, to one guy? This has nothing to do with a carousel. When you've hired the wrong guy for both jobs, then you've hired the wrong guy for both jobs. You don't compound the error and rationalize the error by saying it's a carousel if the wrong hire is again fired. A fat Randy Wittman with rabies has been given the keys to the ship. OK, keys don't have ships, but it's the first thing I could think of.
I meant ships don't have keys. Or maybe they do. The point is, admit a mistake, which is the hardest thing a guy with pride can do. Lerner has to do it.
Just admit, alan t. You've crossed over to the media mob and now have a framed poster of Danny Ferry gracing your living room wall. Windy would be proud!
Worse yet, larry, it's a framed poster of Ferry in the nude.
marty is another invalid comparison. he had 5 years as a defensive coordinator before getting a head coach job. getting fired isn't the indicator of valid work experience. putting in time at a high level before being foolishly hired as a head coach is valid. mangini was a mistake for the jets. you bring up 2 out of 3 winning seasons. his second winning season got him fired—not exactly a season to put on the resume.
herm edwards was traded to the chiefs. at the time he was an asset. he played in 5 playoff games in 5 years. not only can he be credited for some of the success of mangini's first year he also gained them a draft pick. mangini on the other hand was fired after a collapse that including poor play, bad playcalling, and a near player revolt. i'm not sure if any of that translates to the possible success of the 2009 jets team.
"putting in time at a high level before being foolishly hired as a head coach is valid."
i meant to say
putting in time at a high level is important not being foolishly hired as a head coach for doing nothing significant.
The early firing HAS to be made for the simple reason there are so many other atrocious teams this season. An early bird/worm kind of thing.
Lerner has too big of an ego to admit he was snowed by WaterBoy. WaterBoy point blank told Lern-nothing that he could "win with Brady Quinn." Slow-Lerner bought it hook, line and sinker, the same way he's buying DoughBoy's current excuse that "we'll get worse before we get better." Riiiiiiggghhht. 'Cuz that's how ALL the successful teams do it, right BallBoy?
We'd certainly respect Slow-Lerner more if he manned up and admitted this was the wrong move for this franchise. Just make a simple list: Column A (the good things about DoughBoy), and Column B (the negatives). He'll need multiple pages for Column B. 'Nuff said?
I mean, look at the Jets. Leon Washington is a better Josh Cribbs. Washington breaks his leg yesterday. Shonn Greene comes in to replace him, and rushes for 144 yards. No excuses. And he's still the backup behind Thomas Jones. But Cleveland? If Cribbs broke his leg, it would just give the homers and shills something more to toss at the wall.
Just thought….sorry, if any jesting nicknames/play-on-names is not allowed (with the various rules these days, who knows what's allowable)?
I'll stick with WaterBoy (job he's best qualified for) and So-very-slo-to-Lerner, because Randy Lerner never seems to learn, coach after coach…GM after GM. It's the epitome of professional sports dysfunction. And, of course, it has to happen with OUR team. (sigh)
Mangini in 2032. http://xr.com/0gkz
what is really sad is why would you hire a coach then the g.m. hoodie 2 as he probably wants to be known as has no clue what is going on, he tries to feed the fans with we are improving, takes time to learn system, couple plays different game would of been closer yea right, never wanted quinn as our quarterback could tell that from the start, anderson could throw for minus yards break a arm hand the ball off to other team and still quinn will not play because that would show hoodie was wrong and he is never wrong just a total control freak worrying about color of rooms at training facility lol time for lerner to pull the trigger and get rid of him now and get someone that has a clue on how to turn this team around all the draft picks we have dont mean anything if you have no clue on how to evaluate talent it is sad when you see teams like pittsburgh pick up players low in the draft and they become all pro the real hoodie in new england gets rid of people that are all pro then brings in rookies that became all pro its the system that the hoodie runs plus he brings in trouble makers and they turn around within the system why because the hoodie knows the game not how to run a great system, our fake hoodie left new england thinking he was all that most coaches under the hoodie do not live up to the hype because it was the system they came from not them. the sad things is bowns fans will live with this for another 2 or 3 years until the owner admits the mistakes or just sell the team to someone who cares.
What?
Lerner oughta hire that gut-toting, wife-beating, herpes-infested freakazoid Delonte West to coach the team. At least he'll toughen them up.
Uh Terje, the Jets were 4-12 the year before Mangini took over, and he turned them around to 10-6 his first year. I went to nyjets.com and looked up a little of the Jet's history. Even in their 4-12 season under Mangini, they were in most of the games. I saw no where in any of the 3 years, even during losing streaks of his teams, where his teams were beaten as bad as the Browns have been beaten in 5 of 7 games this year. Yeah, a blowout here and there, but not a stretch of 5 of 7 blowouts. I know people don't want to hear this, but the flu outbreak has had to have an effect on the team the last 2 weeks, especially the defense. The H1N1 flu is a serious flu that has killed tons of people so far. Most likely, most of the players affected had the H1N1. If you've ever had the flu of any kind before, you usually feel weak and out of sorts when you come down with the illness and for a week or so after you recover. Professional athletes or not, these guys are human just like everyone on here is. I just noticed a huge difference in the defense especially the last 2 weeks from the Cinci and Buffalo games. They just were moving so much slower and it got worse as the games wore on, which makes since. The defense was swarming all over in the Cinci and Buffalo games. Hopefully, the whole team will be completely recovered and have their energy back for the Chicago game. Who knows, maybe the Bears are sick now – they seem to be too good a team to get beaten 45-10.
Oh, no. Now it's the flu that did it. At least it's not the Devil that made them do it.
Oh, and Earth to Tim in Plantation, Fl: Mangini had 0% control over personnel with the Jets. Are you actually arguing with a straight face that Mangini was the reason they improved? Oy vey. Seriously, what are you taking?
"Uh Terje, the Jets were 4-12 the year before Mangini took over, and he turned them around to 10-6 his first year. I went to nyjets.com and looked up a little of the Jet's history. Even in their 4-12 season under Mangini, they were in most of the games."
ok. if mangini is responsible of turning the jets around in one season then he is certainly responsible for the epic collapse of the current browns franchise. 4-12 is the common denominator in both cases. time to close out the year with a streak of wins eric! 10 and 6! 10 and 6!