I attended and wrote about the first Browns training camp practice Saturday. Wish I could offer some great insights from one workout, but it was really pretty vanilla. Mike Brown also discussed the loss to Orlando, and there's some more Indians financial stuff in Sunday's Beacon Journal.
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Here's more financial data to go along with what I've already posted. The deeper I research, the greater the lies. All I've been reading the past few days is Jacobs was a big, big spender, really cared about putting a good product on the field, that his payrolls were always topping the majors or close.
Hey, who cares about facts when complete and utter bullsh*t is so much easier to digest? I'll get to the other years (including forgotten and apparently never happened Year 1 through Year 5, when Jacobs' payrolls were always scraping the bottom of the major league barrel), but for now, check it out. This is straight from MLB's Player Relations Committee.
Dolan has been a freakin' Arab prince compared to this guy:
Jacobs, Year 6 (1992) – Payroll – 28th of 28 teams
Jacobs, Year 7 (1993) – Payroll – 26th of 28 teams
Jacobs, Year 8 (1994) – Payroll – 16th of 28 teams
Jacobs, Year 9 (1995) – Payroll – 7th of 28 teams
Jacobs, Year 1 (1987) – Payroll – 22nd of 26 teams
Jacobs, Year 2 (1988) – Payroll – 22nd of 26 teams
Jacobs, Year 3 (1989) – Payroll – 22nd of 26 teams
Jacobs, Year 4 (1990) – Payroll – 18th of 26 teams
Jacobs, Year 5 (1991) – Payroll – 22nd of 26 teams
Jacobs, Year 6 (1992) – Payroll – 26th of 26 teams
Jacobs, Year 7 (1993) – Payroll – 26th of 28 teams
Jacobs, Year 8 (1994) – Payroll – 16th of 28 teams
Jacobs, Year 9 (1995) – Payroll – 7th of 28 teams
It is interesting to note that in 1993, the Jacobs/Indians payroll was even lower than the payroll of the expansion Florida Marlins, and was just barely higher than the expansion Colorado Rockies.
what this financial data really does is point the finger at shapiro, wedge and crew. that is dolan's greatest failing. not that he didn't spend (btw, i've never been a guy to cry about dolan's spending) but his g.m., talent evaluators, coaches and managers are garbage.
terje, it's partially the fault of Jacobs and Hart. The entire mid 90s scam was designed to drain the blood out of the minor leagues and put it into the majors. In 1995, Hart had only one starter who was over the age of 30, the fossil Eddie Murray at DH. By the time Hart passed the baton to Shapiro, Hart had only one starter who was UNDER the age of 30. It's ridiculous.
The fact that they won 93 games and 96 games so soon after Jacobs and Hart vampired the minors and sucked everything left of the majors is a testament to the opposite of what you just wrote.
Why didn't Jacobs/Hart re-up Albert Belle, the most feared hitter in all of baseball? Because he was going to cost too much. Shapiro, on the other hand, signed Rectangular-Headed Syringe for comparable money that Belle, in 2009 dollars, eventually had to get from the White Sox because he couldn't get it from the Indians.
Look, I'm no huge fan of Dolan and Shapiro, but I can't stand the hypocrisy.
With that said, they'd better do something fast about drafting the right guys, or this franchise is moving. The guys they've got scouting kids keep whiffing. That's been the greatest failure, not Shapiro or Wedge. Although I do think Wedge has run his course.
Jacobs, Year 1 (1987) – Payroll – 22nd of 26 teams
Jacobs, Year 2 (1988) – Payroll – 22nd of 26 teams
Jacobs, Year 3 (1989) – Payroll – 22nd of 26 teams
Jacobs, Year 4 (1990) – Payroll – 18th of 26 teams
Jacobs, Year 5 (1991) – Payroll – 22nd of 26 teams
Jacobs, Year 6 (1992) – Payroll – 26th of 26 teams
Jacobs, Year 7 (1993) – Payroll – 26th of 28 teams
Jacobs, Year 8 (1994) – Payroll – 16th of 28 teams
Jacobs, Year 9 (1995) – Payroll – 7th of 28 teams
Jacobs, Year 10(1996) – Payroll – 4th of 28 teams
Jacobs, Year 11(1997) – Payroll – 3rd of 28 teams
Jacobs, Year 12(1998) – Payroll – 8th of 30 teams
Jacobs, Year 13(1999) – Payroll – 6th of 30 teams
And this is the legendary guy whose payrolls were always "among the tops in the Majors?" He sucked the franchise dry and flew away. Like a bat out of hell.
This myth-busting has gotten addictive.
Percentage of games won under Jacobs ownership: 50.81%
Percentage of games won under Dolan ownership: 50.86%
More myth-busting. I never realized just how much the Dolan-haters are so full of crap.
I have also included a separate breakdown of payroll for Jacobs beginning with 1994, the year the team moved into the new stadium. Note that despite Jacobs enjoyed the natural novelty advantage and increased revenue from packed attendance in a brand-new stadium, as well as enjoyed increased revenue by virtue of peddling (worthless) stock from 1997 through 1999, Jacobs' average payrolls were *still* less than Dolan's payrolls in an inflation-adjusted apples-to-apples comparison. Averages are based on totals prior to the recent trades:
Jacobs Payroll Average: $42,900,000 (adjusted for inflation in 2009 dollars)
Dolan Payroll Average: $73,108,000 (adjusted for inflation in 2009 dollars)
Jacobs Payroll Average/New Stadium: $69,245,000 (adjusted for inflation)
Alan, if you look at the data from 1994-1999, the years that most "fans" became "fans", you can't deny that Jacobs was spending money. And when people see the results of that spending, 2 World Series apprearances and an entertaining team, they get the impression that spending equals winning. As for the payrolls during the Cleveland Stadium days, very few people cared about baseball as evidenced by the miniscule crowds. The people who did care were just happy they had a team to watch. Ahh, those were good old days. How I miss Cleveland Stadium.
I'm not denying that Jacobs was spending money … uh, in the last few years out of *13* But people showed up because of the new stadium and steroid-pumped misfits. The best of whom Jacobs wouldn't re-up because HE COST TOO MUCH.
What the Dolan-haters refuse to acknowledge is that the sellout streak stopped and attendance started to substantially decline BEFORE the Indians stopped being in first-place and in the playoffs. 2001. They finished first. Were in the playoffs. But the sellout streak stopped. Look it up. Why? The novelty was over.
The following year the payroll was also big and fat. 2002. But you'd have thought they'd wheeled out Jacobs' body and stuck him sticking out of the ground perpendicular at second base, because people were too terrified to buy tickets to support the team.
Shapiro was forced by Hart to totally rebuild on the fly. 2005. 93 wins. Nobody showed up. 2007. 96 wins. Nobody showed up.
Basically, Dolan did what Modell did, but he was far more honorable about it. He warned people. And warned people. And warned people. And warned people. And warned people. "Please buy tickets. My payroll is dependent on the revenue from ticket sales." Instead, people ignored didn't take him seriously and ignored him. Well, Dolan wasn't kidding.
That's the facts, man.
I don't feel sorry for multi-millionaires. That's Dolan. But I do feel sorry for people born without brains. That's the Dolan-haters.
Thanks for some very enlightening information. If people can look at the plain facts and still believe their own false-perceptions, then there' no reasoning with them at all. Financially, Mr. Dolan has been a far superior owner than Mr. Jacobs.
Fans don't seem to understand that the 90s happened because the future Hall of Fame-level talent (Manny, Thome, Vizquel, Belle, Lofton, Nagy, Baerga, Alomar) was young and cheap…all at the same time. The town fell in love with them, the players. And when they began disappearing, so did the sellouts. When it came time to re-sign them, Jacobs sold the team.
Alan is correct in saying the Dolans have warned and warned and warned (actually, informed) the fans. In this limited cash market, spending does depend on fan attendance. Ownership has held up its end of the partnership, the fans have not.
By not supporting the winning teams when cash was being spent (often at a deficit), the fans themselves have voted for a Marlins-type structure. Don't blame anyone other than yourselves, fans.
Just heard a season ticket holder email Rizzo that he's "done" with the Tribe. Do fans really not understand that if that mentality continues, the Indians are moving out of Cleveland?
Are you so bitter, you're willing to lose baseball forever, along with all of the jobs and economic cash flow MLB brings to the poorest city in America? I'm always amazed at just how short-sighted people are.
And like the Browns, they won't truly believe it until the team is gone. You'd think Clevelanders would've learned the hard lesson once. Guess not.
Thad, first, I wonder if he is *really* a season-ticket holder, or just a talker. Knowing sports radio, probably just a talker. Second, ONLY season-ticket holders have a valid beef. They did their part. But their rancor should be directed at their next-door neighbors, not at Indians ownership and/or management.
One more: The arrogant Tony Rizzo just said on-air "please stop sending me emails about Dolan/Jacobs payroll comparisons, 'cause I'll blow you out of the water on that one."
When the Tribe leaves Cleveland, Tony Rizzo and Kenny Roda are two voices who will have helped spur the move. They get on the radio daily and rant, stirring up the simpleton minds locally against the team and ownership. When a so-called "media" person won't look at facts instead of fiction, they don't belong on the airwaves. Is their endgame to prompt the big story about the Tribe leaving? Sure seems like it.
cleveland would be better off without baseball. the town needs to pay for it's braindead love of the expansion browns and moving the indians would be a fitting punishment.
I wonder if Rizzo and Roda actually believe what they're saying, or they are saying such ignorant and stupid stuff just to stir up populist passion and ratings. I can't believe that when presented with actual 100% facts, they're as incredibly moronic as they may just be pretending to be.
But you're right. In the totally selfish quest for ratings, they're going to sow the seeds to send the franchise packing after Larry Dolan dies and his son takes over.
Pats owner Bob Kraft says team is not interested in Mike Vick. National fan reaction? "Vick made a 'mistake.' He paid his 'debt to society.' He 'deserves' a second chance.' He was 'only killing dogs.'"
Is anyone else as sickened and offended by such comments as I am? Could YOU, for instance, torture, mutilate and kill dogs–and not just a couple, mind you? No? Then try to comprehend the vicious criminal mindset of someone who felt there was nothing wrong with doing it as a regular lifestyle.
Exactly how do you simply call a prolonged life-pattern…a "mistake" ? A boo-boo. As if it's just something that happened once, an chance occurrence, and now it's just "all in the past and forgotten."
Oh, come on. This Vick thing is a pet peeve with me. No pun intended. Stop getting so emotional about it. Half of the guys in the NFL are beating a woman as I type this sentence. The other half right now are pouring down a quart of vodka while driving a car. What about the druggies and dealers on the Browns?
What about cockfighting? What about bullfighting? Let's hang everybody who speaks Spanish.
Do you know just how many people in the country are now involved with dogfighting? Do you know that after the Civil War, it was more popular in the northeast part of the United States than the Cleveland Indians are now?
I own two dogs, love the hell out of them. But please, be rational.
If you ask me, anyone with a felony conviction should be barred from the NFL, just as they would be in most other occupations. If there is no clear-cut deterrent, the behavior will never end. It's time to begin ending their careers, which they feel such "entitlement" to, and let them empty garbage cans for a living. Eventually, players will realize the dream-fantasy life they enjoy can be gone in a flash, along with the millions.
Vick bankrolled not only an elaborate illegal interstate slaughter operation, but an entire gambling operation, which–in itself–should bar him for life from pro sports. (And regarding the women being beat, they have two legs to walk away. That's their choice to stay with a deranged lunatic. Innocent animals have no such option.)
I'm gonna miss this when the Indians are gone.
Since Pat talked about not knowing who these prosepcts were a week ago – there's one other question I've mulled over in my mind… What if Shapiro honestly valued other prospects as much or more than others? What if in Shapiro's mind Drabek = Carrasco?
Does Shapiro let the deal die because he doesn't get the guy others value, or is he content getting what he dems as good value?
If in his mind Drabek = Carrasco, he probably takes Carrasco + better package over Drabek + lesser package.
I have no idea – but it's occured to me more and more over the last week, and it seems silly but I never hear others talk about it – different teams can assign different grades to different players, just like a draft board.
If they believe their system, they should just go with it, no matter the backlash.
I guess.
Here's another question I'm mulling over – what's the market value in prospects for a "great when he's hot" 30 year old catcher who missed half of the previous year?
I'm sure Vic will hit some for Boston, who needs help "now." But we haven't won a darn-blame thing with Vic, EVER. So why the fuss? Looks to me like we got a very good pitcher in Masterson, and who-knows-what-else? Gee, do ya think San Diego fans are rioting in the streets because Peavy was dealt to the ChiSox? Trades and financial accountability are a fact of life. The average fan doesn't get that, because they're the ones who took out a sub-prime mortgage for a half-million-dollar house that's now been repossessed. Can I get an amen…?
Despite Martinez' crocodile tears looking something like Thome's weepy "My wife is my rock," does anybody in his right mind truly believe Martinez would not have eventually become a free agent anyway?
The local media and the fans were stupid enough, and remain stupid enough, to buy whatever crap Jacobs was selling from 1986 on, to buy whatever crap Jacobs and Hart were selling until they pulled a hit-and-run, and are still stupid enough to buy everything Gilbert and Ferry are selling.
The problem is Dolan and Shapiro don't have this same luxury. They were the bad guys the very moment they got the gig.
In this specific instance, if I was a PR consultant, I'd suggest what is very rarely done: No spin. Give it to people straight and don't sugarcoat it: "If you do not support the team, we cannot support the payroll you expect us to pay. We are sorry, but that is the reality." Shapiro, at the press conference, could then whip out all of the financial *facts* I've posted here in the past couple of days. The numbers speak for themselves. The media could not possibly, in good faith, deny what is plain as day in those charts and graphs. Even the morons wearing headphones on sports talk radio couldn't deny it. It's a no-win, but this approach would have really softened the blow.
But Shapiro is totally spinning it, and nobody who is not otherwise on hardcore drugs can possibly buy it. Completely wrong approach.
how anyone could trust shapiro and crew's talent evaluation skills is beyond me. it was only two years ago when the team was supposedly stocked with great pitching all throughout the minors. we all saw how that turned out. after overrated pitchers (sowers, carmona) and flat out busts (miller) the cupboard is bare.
this is rebuild number three. is there another g.m./coach tandem in the league that has lasted so long and done so little? as alan pointed out, dolan has spent the money. shapiro was given the credit card, sent to the store and came back with a truckload of pork rinds and diet faygo cola. why doesn't dolan hold the idiot twins to the same standard that the fans are held to? the fans don't show, you dump payroll—fine. the g.m. and coach suck bunghole…they get extensions and raises. i don't get it. that is the reason the dolans will forever be on my gravesite urination tour when they die. spending the cash is nice but when you're too stupid to buy the right groceries you're stealing my oxygen.
the flowers on art modell's future grave can take comfort knowing that larry and paul dolan's graveside floral arrangement will be the deserving recipient of a golden shower courtesy of me.
terje, sorry, but I have to disagree. Sure, Shapiro has whiffed on pitchers. But the plain fact of the matter is, Shapiro's pitchers have given up far less runs than Hart's pitchers. Jacobs' refusal to authorize spending on pitchers is the reason they never won a damn thing.
Here's a refresher regarding Shapiro's "credit card" gambles. Really, he's been pretty good rolling the dice. http://xr.com/wswd
Here's another refresher. Jacobs and Hart sucked both the minors and the majors dry like Dracula at the Red Cross blood blank, and yet Dolan and Shapiro get blamed 100% for Jacobs' and Hart's egregious selfishness. It's ridiculous. Drives me absolutely crazy, and the idiotic sportswriters out there keep regurgitating their vomit. http://xr.com/n99p
"Shapiro's pitchers have given up far less runs than Hart's pitchers."
if you include you was pitching during the tenure's of the two…sure. but c.c. is hart's guy, not shapiro's. jake westbrook is another hart acquisition. i'm talking about development not inheriting starting pitchers. and shapiro has one guy—cliff lee. and judging by cliff lee's 2007 meltdown and personality traits i'm going to wager that the guy who made him into a cy young winner is cliff lee. not shapiro or any his idiot coaches.
the dollars are one thing but the games are lost on the field and under shapiro the indians have hardly looked like a team that plays good fundamental baseball. it's earl weaver ball minus the offensive talent. shapiro let a guy who just managed a series champion go. the day eric wedge wins a world series is the same day yellowstone explodes and suffocates the planet with poison gas.
the dolan's remind me of a guy i went to high school with who souped up his chevette. yeah, that's great dude…but it's still a chevette. as long as eric wedge and by extension, mark shapiro are running the show it's dollars down the drain.
Hey, you'll get no argument from me about that robotic Wedge. But Shapiro? The only thing that grates me is his spin, but everybody has a boss from whom they have to take orders. Shapiro was ordered to spin it, obviously. But even a guy like Larry Dolan has a boss: his wife.
Wait a minute … a souped up Chevette?
alan, that second article you posted is like throwing napalm in my woodstove.
"The Indians sent a clear message that they are rebuilding, specifically for the 2004 season. "
which turned into 2007 because they choked big time in 2005 and crapped themselves the next season.
"The Indians' system was almost devoid of middle-infield prospects, so the acquisition of Phillips fills an organizational hole. "
we all know the phillips story. brought up to the majors when he clearly wasn't ready and then dumped because of a personality conflict with wedge.
"joining fellow left-handed pitching prospects Billy Traber, Brian Tallet and Alex Herrera."
joining nobody, no one and nothing.
i love this one about sizemore:
"impressive strike-zone judgment"
hahahahaha
"The 2001 draft netted pitching prospects Dan Denham, J.D. Martin, Jake Dittler, and Travis Foley, fortifying their lower levels with a mix of power and finesse arms. The Indians decided to focus on a combination of pitchers and hitters in the 2002 draft, with an emphasis on collegians. Early analysis rates the Indians' haul of right-hander Jeremy Guthrie, third basemen Matt Whitney and Pat Osborn, outfielder Jason Cooper, and second baseman Micah Schilling amongst baseball's best.
The Indians still lack quality position players, but the continued development of catcher Victor Martinez and third baseman Corey Smith and the emergence of outfielder Ryan Church are steps in the right direction. Adding quality athletes like Phillips and Sizemore was almost a must at this stage. "
the drafts netted a bunch of detritus and a guy the team gave away to baltimore but the continued development of zero, zilch and victor martinez who was signed by hart in 1996 basically added up to nothing.
yep, a friggin' chevette. an airbrushed mural of eric wedge and mark shapiro in a loving embrace would have been a beautiful touch but the car as i remember it was before their marital vows.
how could i leave out this little tidbit at the end!:
"Cleveland fans should at least feel comfort in that the men in charge have a plan and intend to stick to it. If everyone involved just shows a little patience, there should be a reward at the end. "
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
if this jedi mind trick works a second time indians fans need to be fed to dogs.
Oh, come on. Shapiro inherited squat from Hart. It's why Hart conveniently timed his "retirement" from what he knew was a sick minor and major league system, then bailed ship like Jacobs did and went straight to Dallas for the exact same job with the Rangers.
And by way, I'll think if you did the research, you'd find out that the Indians' glory teams (who people seem to ignore didn't win a title, it's like oohing and aahing over the Cavaliers finally getting to a conference final) didn't have high draft selections from their own system. Nagy, with the exception of several years, pretty much sucked. He was a first-round selection in the Indians' system. Ramirez was an amateur first-round pick, and Belle was a second-round amateur pick (before Jacobs kicked him to the curb because pseudo-cheapo Jacobs lowballed his agent). But the other guys? They were who cares crapshoots in low rounds or as amateur free agent signings. Hard to believe Hart had anything to do with it, he, like Shapiro, isn't a micro-manager. The guys under him scouted and acquired them.
obviously the ginger's scouts aren't doing him any favors. just like his miswired twitch machine. they suck and he's the chump leading the charge into oblivion.
i'm no champion of hart and jacobs. but you are sugar coating suck shapiro big time. the guy belongs right near the top of the long list of inept cleveland sports figures. the current minor league system is trashed and as you look around the league you can find some capable ex-indians doing well for other teams.
if mark shapiro had fired wedge after 2005 like he should have i'd have a lot less to be angry at him about. but brokeback mountain has morphed into a pile of sweaty uniforms in the corner of the ginger's office. women have "the rabbit", mark shapiro has "the twitch". no wonder he can't dump him.
Top of the inept? Good grief – he's Easily in the top 5 Cleveland sports gm-types in the last 30 years – and that's even giving you 3 of accorsi and hart and embry and maybe peters – all if whom I'm not convinced I should even give. John Lucas is clearly 1. I would give you Kai haaskavi or whoever did that program for the 80s/90s over the 4 I listed. I wouldn't give you ferry.
You sure love that "ginger," reference, don't you?
I'm not sugarcoating anything. Sure, Shapiro has had misfires. But after Jacobs and Hart drained everything out of the entire system, for them to get 93 and 96-win teams so soon afterward, that's pretty good.
With that said, there has to be a total revamping of the current business model. More scouts, better scouts. Far more emphasis on the early Peters/Hart years of improving the minor leagues from top to bottom, far less emphasis on the latter Hart years of crapping all over it.
By the way, more myth-busting. And this one is even far greater than any of the Jacobs/Dolan idiotic myths I've already busted.
During my research, I stumbled across this astounding fact: Historically, of the 30 teams in the Major Leagues, where do you think the Indians rate in won-loss percentage? Everybody would say, "Oh, they've gotta be 28th, maybe even 29th!!"
True fact which blows everything else I've myth-busted out of the water: 7th!!!!
two winning seasons out of eight is NOT pretty good.
Now that I really think about it, you may be right. But I think the first three years have to be discounted in a major way, since Hart dumped a complete rebuilding project on him with no minor league players to work with. Which leaves 2 out of 5 winning seasons. Which is mediocre at best. Maybe it is time to give somebody else a shot at the job, even if Shapiro is just kicked upstairs.
Much as I hate to admit it, Kenny Williams in Chicago seems to be a pretty proactive GM.
John Hart used to love that "proactive" term. That's one thing I liked about him, adding Winfield and other bats at the end of their careers. Offense upon offense. That was fun. Strikeout upon strikeout now? Not so much.
i'm willing to let the first few years slide with shapiro. but after the 2005 meltdown it's on him. so that makes it 1 winning season and 3 losers.
I just read about Plaxico Burress being indicted by a Grand Jury, and am so happy! Until a judge and jury tosses one of these thugs in prison for a few years, they will continue thinking it's fine-and-dandy standard behavior to carry a weapon.
If you need to carry a weapon for a night out, you're going to the wrong place, period. It's just more of that criminal mindset. Lewis, Vick, Burress, Pacman, and the deranged T. Owens…who publicly defends all of their actions.
Get this: Newport News, Va. is organizing The "Michael Vick Community Celebration" to welcome home their native felon. Honestly, is there no end to the depths of American stupidity?
i'd rather attend a michael vick community celebration than a browns game.
What are they going to do, smack fruit, toys and candy out of a hanging dog piñata?
Well 1 really winning, 1 lucky to be 500, and 2 losers to be exact.
Although there's something to be said about having a world series quality winning team (which is what 07 was) as the one winner – which I would take over 2 or 3 over 500 level winning teams that never really had a shot – say the astros over the last 4 years or something.
Check this out, those arrogant jerks with the Cavaliers always think they can get away with anything. The funny part of this story is the last sentence of the second paragraph. This story was leaked about a leak.
By BRIAN MAHONEY, AP Basketball Writer 2 hours, 11 minutes ago
NEW YORK (AP)—The NBA has fined three teams an undisclosed amount for leaking details of their schedules before the league released them.
The Cleveland Cavaliers, Houston Rockets and Minnesota Timberwolves were penalized, an official with knowledge of the decisions told The Associated Press on Monday. The official requested anonymity because the fines weren’t publicly announced.
The NBA will release its 2009-10 schedule on Tuesday afternoon. The league forbids teams to release any details before then.
Speaking of the Houston Astros, why don't Astros fans and media folks run around town worshipping the 1997-2005 teams like drooling Indians fans and media folks run around town worshipping the stumbling, bumbling 1995-2001 teams? Same types of records, same types of performances. I guess they're just smarter.
the 2005 astros are better than anything that shapiro has put on the field. better to get swept in the world series than to give up one of the most historic choke jobs in baseball history. that astros team is just a footnote, the 2007 tribe is going to be humiliated on screen forever.
If anyone has the time (or interest), take a look at the game-by-game results from 2007. Yes, the Tribe won 96 games, most in the major leagues. But with any run support at all, that team would've won 120 games. I'm totally serious. The pitching (even w/o Cliff Lee) was so dominant, but we had the problem of scoring 1 or 2 runs per game for literally months at a time.
It was historic pitching, and all we needed was a jolt of offense, and we'd be talking W.S. Champions today. How interesting would it have been to see if there was carry-over, attendance-wise and success-wise, in 2008…if we had actually won the crown.
Man, when you get that close, you have to go for it all–because there's no guarantee you'll ever be back.
yep.
and the team is still going with derek shelton who's teams have never been able to manufacture runs and his hitters often score a dozen one game and spend weeks at a time scoring little to no runs. eddie murray got fired for much less. of course eric wedge hasn't found one black guy he could get along with his entire tenure.