Indians GM Mark Shapiro addressed the media this evening, and there were a few buzzwords in his discussion of the Cliff Lee trade.
First, though, let me state there are very few people in sports who can verbalize a team's plan and vision the way Shapiro can. He is a man with a message, and he gets the message across.
The buzzwords? Championship, short period of time, and extended period of time. As in Shapiro steadfastly maintained that though trading Lee was a tough decision, the moves the Indians have made in the last year since the CC Sabathia trade have put the team in a position to "contend in very short order for an extended period of time."
Shapiro said the only role ownership played was to ask a critical question: How confident are you that this team can contend next season? Because it was clear financially that the team with Cliff Lee would not have been able to add any players to make it better. The Indians would have gone to 2010 with the same team.
Shapiro said the judgment was made to be active now in trying to improve rather than rolling the dice that next season would be better with the same team.
This was not a happy-happy, joy-joy news conference either. There were some pointed questions from some folks who sounded as angry as the fans have sounded since the trade was announced.
Some highlights:
"We didn't have an imperative or directive from ownership to shed payroll, or to make trades either. We had to critically and objectively look at the team that's in place and say, 'Do we feel good about the team's ability to contend next year?'"
"If you don't make tough decisions like this you don't have Cliff Lees here in the first place."
"Our situation now is so much better than when we had to go through this in 2001 and 2002. have a core of talent that is at the major league level that is going to be under control for multiple years, like Grady and Shin-Soo Choo and Cabrera and Valbuena and Huff. At AAA in Brantley and LaPorta and Rondon. At AA … When you start to look at that talent and supplement it with players like we traded for today, I think that the makings of a championship team is there, And one that can be here very quickly, or is already here. And one that has the ability to have an extended run, rather than a one-year run and then go through some major challenges."
On the fans frustrations to trading Cy Young winners two years in a row:
"I've been here 18 years. I think I understand. It's frustrating for me too, but ultimately there are realities in different markets in the way you build teams. We're trying to build a championship team. That means there are going to be mini-cycles. I think what we've done hopefully is avoid any kind of long retrenching or long rebuilding …"
On the decision:
"What I want to do is for us to be right in the end, for people to look back two, three years from now and say, 'Thank goodness they made that deal." … What you're going to be doing at any single moment in time is not going to be applauded and not necessarily going to be understood. You want to be right in the end, not right along the way."
On the expectations for 2010:
"Everything has to go right and it has to be kind of a Florida Marlins type of model, but I believe we'll have a young exciting team that has a chance to contend. We'll at least be competitive. What I believe most importantly, with the moves we made we're in a position now for an extended period of time to have a contending team. In a short period of time."
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Hey Alan, since you're so far up Dolan's @&*, this will probably REALLY infuriate you.
http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/?p=15516
"And they'll also question why you only seem to surface on these forums when it comes time to defend Dolan's legacy…"
you might want to check with a guy named "rick" for the accuracy of this statement. hahahaha
Still waiting for you to respond to Jacobs' 1986-1993 Era. And I'm not going to click the link, I've read a few things on there in the past, the arguments the young guys write on there are as logical and coherent as you after raiding Warren Zevon's old liquor cabinet.
terje, it that rick? I thought I'd rid myself of his stench.
I meant is that rick … obviously. Can't type worth a crap.
nah, that's not rick. realism usually haunts the tribe blog and as you might have noticed-he's not too fond of the dolans.
By the way, even during the height of the big revenue/big budget era, I think it's interesting to note they kicked Albert Belle to the curb when he was still beating the hell out of the ball, and also they rid themselves of Lofton because they thought they wouldn't be able to sign him when he became a free agent.
Not to mention that Jacobs never put out the money to sign pitchers. And why? Because the hitters are what brings in the revenue. Pitchers only pitch once every five games. Hitters play every game. It sure wasn't going to help his bottom line, so why pay the extra cash? For that guy in a new stadium, a loss was as good as a win. They both paid the same.
Anyway, without the 'roids, I doubt any of those Indians teams would have been able to hit a ball any further than the visitors' dugout.
Alan, what is your obsession with ripping Jacobs for only building a successful franchise half the time he owned the Indians? At least he built a successful franchise, which is more than we'll ever be able to say about your cousin/brother.
Use a little common sense, bud. Belle was traded for a few more reasons than money. However, the players I listed above (especially Lee and Alomar) were traded for no reason other than money.
Quit avoiding the topic and answer my two questions. You're only embarrassing yourself more.
Still evading the 1986-1993 era, pal. Keep dancing.
Still evading the Dolan relation question, and the free agent players and trades who actually contributed their first year to us questions.
In addition, I'll re-state exactly what you previously refused to read, for the third time now:
"Alan, what is your obsession with ripping Jacobs for only building a successful franchise half the time he owned the Indians? At least he built a successful franchise, which is more than we'll ever be able to say about your cousin/brother."
By the way, since you won't read WFNY's post, check out your relative's Wikipedia page. Good stuff. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Dolan
A short excerpt (which I'll likely have to restate, since you can't read):
"Larry Dolan has made the Cleveland Indians the first MLB franchise to trade the reigning Cy Young Award winner in back-to-back seasons, causing the once proud "Jacobs Field" to resemble its' empty, echoing predecessor, Municipal Stadium. Cleveland Indians fans have changed alliances to numerous National League teams as of July 30th 2009. His ineptitude in failing to acquire one of the top prospects from the Philadelphia Phillies in return for a reigning Cy Young winner was the subject of widespread laughter behind closed doors from other teams around the league and, indeed, the world."
Or, to put it another way, if Dolan said, "Listen folks, I'm going to mimic Jacobs. I'm not going to put one single penny into this franchise until 2018, when I'll be dead and Paul, or whatever my son's name is, will be running the show. That's when our brand-new stadium will be built in Solon. That's what I'm aiming for. And I'll screw you all unless you give me my brand-new stadium with more loges and more tax abatements and more freebies built in.
Bottom line, pal, any owner can put together a contending team if they are given a timeline of 8 years and a free brand-new stadium after losing season after losing season after losing season without spending a cent on the major league teams. Every single penny went into the farm system.
Again, you have selective memory. Explain 1986 through 1993. Or just give it up.
Oh, and thanks for that post and the knowledge. I didn't know you vandalized Wikipedia as proficiently as you vandalize the comments section of this blog.
Let's compare apples with apples…Jacobs bought the team in 86. By '94 they were above .500 and never looked back. Eight years.
Dolan bought the team in 1999. It's 2009, and we're talking about how "competitive" the Indians may be in 2-3 seasons. When will we begin this run of success? Tell your brother to step it up.
Also, still waiting for you to answer the acquisition question. Juan Gonzales. Dave Justice. Roberto Alomar. Omar Vizquel. Orel Hershiser. Kenny Lofton. Dave Burba. Julio Franco. Matt Williams. Dennis Martinez. Jose Vizcaino. Travis Fryman. Dave Winfield. Eddie Murray. Marty Cordova. Cecil Fielder. Dwight Gooden. Jack McDowell. Marquis Grissom. Kevin Seitzer. Harold Baines. Chuck Finley…
Vandalize the comments section of this blog? You were the first one to make an absurd comment, and have posted 24 times. I've posted 16 (now 17). Between your reading, writing and counting abilities, it's a wonder you ever got out of 6th grade. But I suppose that would explain your "glue, drugs and porn" "jokes" and your general lack of knowledge about anything sports related.
And going back to your first comment, about how the Indians' lack of success is the fault of the fans…the last I checked, the failing pizza shop owner can't blame the local clientele for "not having good enough taste in pizza."
Evidently, you're as capable with economics as you are with reading, writing and math. But I guess that would come to be with someone who doesn't have a job, and instead lives off his brother's money. For all I know, trading Lee away may have just bought you a new car!
I'm still waiting for you to explain your illogic by comparing oranges to apples. They were selling out a new stadium after sitting in front of beams in a cavern for 72 years. Revenue ahoy. Which explains payroll for players. (Juan Gonzales? Please. You mean the same guy who ripped a hamstring yanking down his shorts and poking himself with a cleaver? Dwight Gooden? Jack McDowell? Dennis Martinez? Orel Hershiser? Buddy, do you think you could toss out the name of at least one pitcher who wasn't suffering from varicose veins and a swollen prostate? You can't, because then Jacobs would have had to pay him for the long-term.) In the meantime, Dolan's Indians put together two excellent teams in three years, and yet they couldn't draw comparative flies. Of course, you ignore the fact that the stadium was now just another building. Just like the formerly new Gund Arena couldn't draw flies and the owner didn't put a penny into the franchise during the last five years of his ownership because of it.
It's now 2009, if you happen to own a calendar, which of course is highly debatable. Pal, they could not draw 20,000 to see the Red Sox or the Yankees. That is on Dolan? No, that is on a crap baseball market. But you just keep beating that idiotic drumbeat like that bass drumming fool who I assume is still banging away in the bleachers like he's done since the Indians finished in sixth-place in 1973, a position in the standings which pretty much epitomizes Jacobs' first eight years of penny-pinching ownership.
Again, Alan actually makes a comparison that better proves my point. If it's the building that drew fans, The Gund would have been packed. It wasn't because the team stunk. When the Cavs got LeBron, suddenly an "old" building began selling out over and over, while the other old building next door sat mainly vacant through a completely lucky 2007 season, and a half-way decent '05, which we've already discussed, had Alan known how to read…
Until Alan can answer the following two questions, I refuse to communicate any further with this pathetic, lonely child. He has yet to answer a single point or question, and has yet to provide a single shred of evidence or stat to support any of his claims:
Alan:
1/ What relation do you have to Dolan or Shapiro?
2/ Name one player Dolan acquired of the caliber of those I named.
Someone call me if Alan actually answers. I have more of a life than to worry about a Dolan sympathizer whose claims are so baseless Ray Charles could have seen through them…
Answer to your first question: I am related to Shapiro in that we are both Members of the Tribe. I mean the original tribe in Israel. The same way you are related to the centerfold in the most recent issue of Blueboy Magazine.
Answer to your second question: Cliff Lee.
Of course, you don't answer the simple question as to why nobody shows up to see the Red Sox or the Yankees, and still refuse to touch upon Jacobs' glory years of throwing pennies into the wind from 1986 through 1993. So I guess in your imaginary world, those years never happened.
As far as your stupid first paragraph is concerned, it's LeBron Freakin' James! THAT is why the building is full. Wins or losses, the building will be full so long as he is in the building. It's why Gund insisted upon getting a big star, the star factor. Which turned into the wonderful Sean Kemp. Read Wayne Embry's book. Didn't work.
Without James, the Cavaliers would hear the sounds of loud chirping over and above all the fake piped in noise, and not just from the chirping going on inside your head.
It's the same way that if you see the image of Jesus Christ on a soup stain on your kitchen wall, 20,000 people will show up to see it, notwithstanding the squalor inside your apartment. James is Jesus. It's just another wild aberration comparable to sticking a bunch of young power hitters in the first new stadium Cleveland had seen since the freakin' Herbert Hoover Administration.
But why argue logic and common sense. You're Realist.
There you go, being delusional again, Alan…
LeBron, as I first noted, is the reason the Cavs are selling tickets. But it's not because of who he is, but how he plays the game. He wins. And so long as he does, the Cavs will sell tickets. Had LeBron come to Cleveland and never helped the Cavs win, they would not sell tickets.
The same goes for the Indians. Anyone who can watch a baseball game can see what Dolan was doing from the first couple years he owned the Indians. He needed to cut money to make up for how much he spent, and that meant sacrificing talent. He never acquired proven talent through trades or free agency.
Jacobs, by comparison, built a very strong minor league system, then put the additional pieces into place when they were necessary. Dolan claims he's trying to build a strong minor league system, yet has never put any pieces into place when necessary. The Indians had proven throughout all of 2007 that they didn't stand a chance against the Red Sox if they met them in the playoffs. They were lucky to get past an ailing Yankees team, and the Red Sox, upon waking up, pounded them. What were the pieces we needed to improve the team mid-season so we COULD beat the Red Sox? A true lead-off hitter, at least one more power bat, and a relief pitcher. What did Dolan get? Kenny Lofton. But I will applaud him…that was the only time in his history owning the Indians that he has ever tried to acquire a half-way talented player mid-season to make the Indians stronger, rather than just cutting money.
Again, you haven't read what I've written. Lee was a player to be named later who was looked at to be cut in 2007, then blossomed out of no where in 2008. Dolan deserves as much credit for finding Lee as a homeless guy deserves for stumbling across a winning lotto ticket. I have continuously asked you to name one player Dolan has ever brought to the Indians who was of the caliber of names I mentioned and COULD CONTRIBUTE IMMEDIATELY. It took six years for Lee to contribute in any way. Kerry Wood is the best Dolan has ever done.
Couldn't draw 20k to see the Yankees or Red Sox?
First off, the "Prog" DID average over 32,000/game against the Yankees at home this season, because it was Friday-Sunday in late May. And that series started with the Indians 7 games out of .500. Not good baseball fans? They put 32,000/game into a "crappy, old" stadium (your presumption, not mine) to see their team get pounded and move to one of the worst records in baseball, only 50 games into the season.
But if it were true that we couldn't draw 20k fans to see these teams, I think I have a good explanation for that…maybe it's because THEY'RE NOT OUR FRIGGIN' TEAMS! While there are several front-runner fans around here, many refuse to support those clubs and won't pay to see them unless if they're paying to see the Tribe beat them. And I can't blame them. I don't want to watch the Yankees win at any cost.
Also, do some actual homework…the Indians played the Red Sox at home Monday-Wednesday in April, when they were already 5 games below .500, less than 20 games into the season. And do you happen to remember the weather that series? 47 degrees Saturday, and 56 Sunday. Both overcast, looking like rain…
Seriously, Alan, have you ever researched a single fact? One? You shoot from the hip, yet you don't even know where your hip is!
Are you for real? You seriously believe it's not because the guy's mug is affixed on top of Sports Illustrated's NBA site and he's the future face of the NBA? It's because he "wins?" Pal, if they had gotten Carmelo Anthony, who also wins, the franchise would not be in Cleveland as I write this.
Seriously, are you for real? But you just keep on drinking that Kool-Aid.
And Jacobs built a minor league system? OF COURSE he built a strong farm system. BECAUSE FOR YEARS HE WASN'T PUTTING A PENNY INTO THE MAJOR LEAGUE SYSTEM! Give Dolan eight freakin' years of not putting a penny into a team, and he could do that, too. Hell, so could anybody. Eight-year windows of not spending a penny and with zero expectations are kinda nice.
The Indians couldn't even draw 20,000 against the Red Sox, and the weather was freakin' beautiful. High 85, low 63, not a cloud in the sky. The weather wasn't the issue during the series. In their only appearance of the season. I shoot from the hip, you shoot from God knows where.
And seriously, are you really as dense as you write? Newsflash: People in normal American League baseball towns flock to see the Yankees and the Red Sox. They are the two most popular road draws. I misspoke about the Yankees … I meant 30,000, not 20,000. Barely over 30,000 for the first two games, and less than 30,000 for the third game. IN THEIR ONLY APPEARANCE OF THE SEASON, AND ON A FRIDAY, SATURDAY AND SUNDAY! Inexcusable not to fill the place.
Revenue equates to payroll. You draw flies in the seats, you draw flies on your payroll. I don't know why you refuse to accept this simple concept. They won big in 2005 and 2007, still drew flies. So winning really ain't the issue. Either you're too stubborn to accept it, or you're just too stupi… nah, I don't want to stoop to your level.
The big difference between LeBron and Carmelo is LeBron wins more. He's a better player. Have you ever watched him? Or the NBA? Or do you spend all day under your brother's desk taking care of him? Seriously…LeBron may live to be the greatest NBA player in history. Had that not been the case, the Cavs wouldn't sell tickets.
Oh, and we've given Dolan 10 YEARS of putting no money into the Indians while "building for the future." It gave us one lucky year, one decent year, and several more very, very bad years. Again, Alan…basic math…
The Red Sox series saw an 80-degree day once. Once. The others were sub 56 and overcast, AND MONDAY-WEDNESDAY, YOU MORON! Not to mention the fact that the Cleveland team playing SUCKED.
Revenue does equate to payroll. And guess what…revenue comes from ticket sales, which come from having a contender. You can't claim you'll make a better pizza once people start paying for it. Learn one thing about economics, Alan. One. With your complete lack of any economic sense, I have to assume you might actually work in accounting for the Indians, which would make COMPLETE SENSE.
And while you're at it, I'm still waiting for you to answer the questions I asked.
Seriously, man, I can't argue with somebody on drugs. You actually believe it's the way James plays, and not because he's a local folk hero in Michael Jordan's steroid-filled body. You actually believe that if they had the same 47 and 50-wind records they had for three of the past four years, that if they had a good team without James, they would draw.
The weather for the Red Sox series was good. In the case of the first game, better than good. Couldn't have been more perfect. Are you sure it was the weather? Are you sure it was because the Cleveland team sucked? Heck, I thought it was because of 9/11. That's as good an excuse as the sh*t you're tossing out there.
I still can't figure out what you want me to answer. You dragged out the names of a lot of overpaid over-the-hill guys pumped on steroids. So what do you want to to say, that Dolan was a cheap ass for not making a play for Pudge Rodriguez when he had the golden chance?
It's difficult to argue with people on drugs.
Alan, this is over. You're completely disillusion. Cavs fans packed a crappy old stadium 20 minutes from downtown Cleveland in the middle of nowhere when they were good. They couldn't pack a brand new stadium in downtown Cleveland when they were bad.
So long as you keep thinking this way, you will never understand why the Indians will NEVER succeed under Dolan, and why your brother is run out of town by angry mobs with pitchforks, while Gilbert and Jacobs are praised. Children can see it. Alan t. can not.
All the guys you're calling "overpaid, over-the-hill" helped build the greatest stretch of Indians play in the past six decades. Many of them will go to the Hall of Fame. Name on Indians HOFer Dolan hasn't gotten rid of. One.
And while you keep disputing the weather with the Boston series, you've yet to dispute the biggest part: the Indians were terrible. No one wanted to pay to watch them play in bad weather in April during the week. That will continue to be the case until the Indians have an owner who actually shows he will invest in the team instead of getting rid of every talented player to cut payroll, using the never-ending excuse that we're a "mid market" team and "can't afford" talent. The day a new owner invests in this team is the day the fans will return. Until then, they won't, and you'll still be sitting on this forum trying to defend your brother's hopeless legacy, while I and other Tribe fans who have completely turned our backs on your brother see time and time again how right we were.
As further proof of Gilbert's genius vs. Dolan's idiocy, I offer today for example. Dolan is frantically trying to trade away the best player in the entire Indians organization for a box of Skittles in order to save a few bucks. Gilbert is trying to sign another free agent, adding to an already talented rotation that boasted the best record in the NBA last season, regardless of how much more in luxury tax it will cost him.
And Alan t. thinks it's all the fans' faults that we now support the Cavs and not the Indians…
Pal, the Indians had a brand-new baseball ballpark, new power hitters, were putting money into the payroll for the very first time in Jacobs' long parched history, the Browns left town, the Cavaliers sucked, there is no hockey team, and they were winning games after a 3,000-year drought, which is the sports equivalent of a hurricane taking place in the middle of the Sahara Desert. And I have to actually attempt to unsuccessfully explain to this misfit why folks felt compelled to buy a ticket then, but wouldn't buy a ticket later.
Check that, the Cavaliers didn't suck. They were mediocre and boring. Even when they were winning, they were boring. Which sometimes is worse than sucking.
Regardless, the point remains is this is like trying to explain physics to a monkey, when it should be as simple as teaching a monkey how to eat a banana.
"Later," like when in '99, '00 and '01 when the stadium was no longer new and the Browns were back? Or like in '93, '94, '95, '96, '97 and '98, when the Cavs posted winning records?
Even though those points debunk YOUR argument, one thing was consistent during that time period: The Indians were investing in game-ready talent and winning. And, low and behold, selling tickets…
"Mediocre and boring" also explains to me the '05 Indians, and much of the '07 Indians, considering they never matched up against top talent. Since that is your explanation as the why fans supposedly were dying to pay for Indians tickets, could it also possibly be an explanation for why fans weren't quite as excited about buying tickets in 05 and 07? Because those that knew baseball also knew the recent stroke of luck was mostly attributable to other power teams facing injuries and a perfect storm of no injuries and unlikely talent gelling at the same time? What happened as soon as the Tribe faced an injury or two (Hafner, Carmona): .300 baseball time!
And those that knew baseball also knew the luck would amount to nothing. Maybe 1-2 series wins in the playoffs, at best, then an embarrassing pounding at the hands of a Boston team the Indians went 2-5 against the Tribe during the regular season. Had the Indians made a play for a few talented veterans at the trade deadline, they would have been a bigger threat, shown the public they were serious about winning it, sold more tix the remainder of the season, and been competitive in '08. As soon as they didn't myself and several others knew their impending fate.
Dubunk? What was the Indians' average attendance in the glory year of 1954?
Selling tickets and winning? The were "winning" in both 2005 and 2007. I have yet to see one single rational word out of you explaining why they still couldn't sell tickets.
Seriously, man, I hate to say it, since I normally attack the argument as opposed to the person, but you are a complete idiot. A business can only sell the sizzle and not the steak for so long. A painfully obvious fact with eludes you. Jacobs got out before he had to become Dolan's doppelganger. He flipped naive morons the bird for the first eight years of his ownership, and then shrewdly made everybody forget it. Or, in your case, completely wiped it from your brain.
Did Dolan once pop a wheelie on your front lawn? Because I don't get it.
Correct. A business CAN only sell the sizzle for so long. Which is why the Indians can't sell tickets now. There's no "steak" to back up the constant Shapiro-touted "sizzle" that "we're building for the future. We're going to be competitive with these young players. We needed to trade, CC, Lee, Blake, DeRosa, Byrd, Colon, Alomar, et al…not to cut money…but to make the team more competitive in a short time for a long time…"
Exactly Shapiro/Dolan. And thus the reason we will no longer invest in your crappy product.
Think of me what you will, Alan. But make sure to pass my message, no matter how ridiculous you think it is, to your brother. The sooner he realizes it, the sooner he'll fill his stadium again. The longer he ignores it, the more worthless his team will become.
And if you actually read my comments you'd see that half of yours have actually defended them. 2005 and 2007 were about selling the sizzle. There was no substance to support the idea that the Indians would be able to sustain their luck. So fans did not invest. They knew there was ultimately no long-term value, and 2006, 2008 and 2009 have proven that.
Seriously, dude, I'm not going to waste any more time. I have to assume that one of Dolan's grandkids put a paper bag full of poop on your front step, and then lit it on fire and rang your doorbell. I also have to assume that Jacobs let you sit in his lap on Christmas morning. There's no other explanations.
And still, despite 3,046 posts, I still have yet to read even one single post from you explaining Jacobs' payroll and behavior from 1986 through 1993. It's like those years of not spending a red cent on the major league payroll never happened. Didn't the people who paid for Indians season-tickets during that time-frame deserve more? In your magical world of milk and honey, I suppose not.
The topic has nothing to do with Jacobs' payroll during that era. All you've done this entire conversation is try and use that as a topic of debate because you've failed to counter a single point I've made. By changing the subject, you think you can divert my attention away from what you're incapable of debating. I refuse to fall into that trap.
My point does not, nor ever has had anything to do with Jacobs' payroll pre-94. Instead, it is based around spending money, building a successful team, then seeing that the fans will attend games as result. If anything, Dolan should have been intelligent enough to recognize this from Jacobs' early mistakes. Jacobs recognized it and built a dynasty. Dolan destroyed it and has failed to come close to Jacobs' accomplishments.
The discussion is about Dolan's lack of spending, and how that has destroyed this ball club. And it's about you making the claim that the Indians can't sell tickets because the fans are bad baseball fans. It has nothing to do with the Indians of the 70s, 80s or 50s. Debate the subject, or just take another hit, create a new cloud you can float around on, dream up a new way to divert the attention away from the topic at hand, and see (eventually) that you've been wrong about everything this entire time.
But the fact is, Dolan DID spend. In fact, the payroll INCREASED after he took over. But the attendance still began to drop. Why? Because the honeymoon was over.
The Indians aren't on the bottom of the payroll list now. They weren't on the bottom of the payroll list in 2007. Still, nobody showed up.
So why in the hell should Dolan keep spending and all he gets in return is people like you bitching online that he's not spending? All the while, your ilk is not buying one freakin' ticket while doing the bitching. Indeed, you are "Exhibit A" of the very core of the problem Dolan faces. And unlike the noble Jacobs, there's no getting out before the earth opens below.
Hypothetical: The new ballpark was never built. The Indians were still playing in Municipal Stadium. What would the average attendance have been from 1994 through 1999, and what would Jacobs' payrolls have been over that same period? The obvious answers to these two questions demolishes everything you have written preceding this. Any response other than the painfully obvious is outright delusional.
The Indians had exhausted their former team. It was time to rebuild. If Jacobs was still the owner today, would have have put together an equivalent adjusted for inflation $140 million payroll today? Not on your life.
One other thing … are you willing to allow Dolan eight years of not spending a penny on the big league team, while putting all of the minimal resources and all of the focus on the minor league system? Are you willing to give him until 2018, and then he will begin to increase the payroll in their brand-new flashy Solon stadium with all the accoutrements and use that eight years to build that winning team. Are you willing to do that? If not, then why in the hell have you been comparing him to the faux-spending Jacobs?
Alan, Jacobs planned on building Jacobs Field from the moment he bought the team. He privately paid for 52 percent of the cost of the stadium. What are you proposing? It should have never been built? The Indians should be playing in an 85-year-old ball park? You're insane.
In addition, Jacobs increased attendance by 56 percent the year before the stadium opened. He only increased it by another 31 percent the year it opened. It wasn't until '96 that he began averaging over 40k/game. Why? Because he built a winner and proved he would invest in the team when necessary. Once the fans saw that, they went to games. They weren't going to go die-hard on the Indians just to see the team have one decent year, then trade away all their talent the teams of the past had, and the way Dolan has.
What do you think was a larger cost? Jacobs increasing attendance by 31 percent, or paying for 52 percent of a new stadium alone? He spent the money, then brought the fans. Where did the free agent money go from 86-93? Well, $91 million of it (from Jacobs) went to the stadium.
And don't talk to me about giving Dolan eight years. We've already given him close to 10. He cut his payroll into 1/3 of what it was, and it only increased due to increasing contracts from existing players, not because he added a load of talent. I've continuously asked you to name one player he added to the team who could contribute immediately the way the players I named could. Also, what salaries did Jacobs cut during the Indians' reign? Did you see them trading away premier talent every season?
And finally, learn how to do basic math. How would giving Dolan eight years put us at 2018? He made cuts in 2008 AND 2009. You continue to prove you know nothing of what you're saying, and you've yet to answer a single point or provide a shred of evidence to any of your 35+ posts.
You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Jacobs paid 52% privately? On what planet??? Read the book "Sports, Jobs, and Taxes" by Roger Noll and Andrew Zimbalist describing Jacobs' scam and the politicians' gift to him.
Seriously, you don't have the foggiest clue.
Because that has a lot to do (again) with the topic at hand…a conspiracy theory presumption about the financing of a new ball park? Have a good weekend, Alan. Say goodbye to Victor for me…
A "conspiracy?" Uhh … no. Public records.
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