Wow.
A holee molee hang-on-to-your hats wow.
The Cavs added Shaquille O'Neal to their roster, and gave nothing up of consequence. Heck, one of the guys they gave up – Sasha Pavlovic – might even wind up back on the team (grimace now).
To get an All-Star and all-timer and all-personality guy, a guy who can compete with Dwight Howard in the middle and who can take some of the media responsibility and spotlight away from LeBron James (imagine that!), the Cavs gave up nothing.
We all need to take a deep breath and remember that the Shaq of 2009-10 is not the Shaq who won all those titles with Kobe Bryant and Dwayne Wade. But he is still formidable, he had a strong season last year and he is driven.
Driven by three things:
1 – A near manic desire to suppress Howard. For some reason, Shaq has gone out of his way to belittle Howard at every turn – to the point that he called him an "impostor." Shaq tried to back his way out of these comments in a day-long Twitter session, so perhaps he was just doing it for fun — or for tough love. But there seems to be something there that Shaq does not like or appreciate.
2 – Winning. Shaq wants another title before he retires. He might have gotten one for the Cavs last seaon had that deal been completed in February. Now he has the chance to get one with LeBron, with Kobe, with Wade.
3 – It could not have been fun for Shaq to watch the playoffs and see Bryant win a title without him in LA. He twittered his congratulations to Bryant after, but this is a proud, proud guy.
Combine them all and the Cavs may have added the piece they needed in the playoffs last season. One thing is true: Howard will not be able to stroll down the lane and establish position on the low block the way he did in the Eastern Conference Finals.
The interesting part will be seeing how Shaq fits with James, but if there's anyone who can get O'Neal the ball in the right spots it should be James. Zydrunas Ilgauskas now probably goes to the bench, and it seems this will increase the chances that Varejao re-signs. You want to be the guy that turned down the chance to play with LeBron and Shaq?
The Cavs probably are not even done. They will continue to try to add players – Rasheed Wallace? – and have a first-round draft pick and the ability to buy a higher pick. So this team is not finished trying to get better.
How it all fits will be interesting, but when was the lst time a team that won 66 games made such a dramatic move?
I think we can safely say that the buzz is back for the Cavs.
{ 41 comments… read them below or add one }
i would have been far more excited if this trade had been done in february.
but, to me it's irrefutable proof that windhorst and pluto are not only shills for the cavs but liars as well. this deal was on the table at the deadline. nothing with the suns has changed. they have been looking to dump shaq the whole time and would have probably preferred to do this deal last season.
i also don't see how this solves the cavs main problem against the magic. and no, it wasn't dwight howard. they actually did fairly well against him. they need an athletic player or two with size.
Ferry has now basically turned Larry Hughes, Drew Gooden, and Sasha into Mo, Delonte, and Shaq.
Ferry should've not gone crazy his first year on the job and basically wasted all that money/cap space that was available at the time on the scrubs that were signed. Some future planning and foresight would've gone a long way as opposed to just spending it all up right then and there. That way, he wouldn't have had to turn our past scrubs into potential future scrubs.
As for what Terje said, exactly. Four months ago, this could have helped greatly. Today, not as excited about it and a bit disappointed too. Reactionary move instead of a proactive one. Not only that, but I don't know what other team was knocking down Phoenix's door to get Shaq. Why rush it when you have 3 months before the season starts?
Looks as if this offseason, we're retooling to match up with Orlando. Last offseason was Boston. Lets see what team can knock us off now so we can retool for them next offseason, if Lebron stays that is.
Terje – they wanted Delonte and the Cavs weren't giving him up. I think the draft pick and 500K make up for that. And, I have to wonder if taking Shaq off their books is the bigger plus.
I think we're gonna see a lot of teams who are suffering financially making deals like this. The good thing is the Cavs have a little in their wallets to play with. Remember, the NBA had to make a series of loans out to several teams in the league to maintain operations this season.
Really, this is unbelievable. Local fans and sportswriters have the memories of fruitflies. They could have given up "nothing of consequence" in February for a 2008-2009 title, so they do the *exact same trade* Ferry wanted to do in February when Kerr demanded the Eyebrow Guy's expiring contract instead, and now everybody is just giddy instead of foaming at the mouth like a rabid pit bull for what wasn't done. It's incredible.
On top of all the other stupid, stupid, stupid things I've had to read, if Ferry did that deal in February, Ferry would now have both O'Neal AND would still have the Ben Wallace bartering chip to use for another deal.
Nice of Steve to keep a straight face while he tried to cover for Ferry to save face for him all these months. That's what friends are for, I guess.
Elizabeth, please. They weren't demanding Delonte West. Come on. They and their lackeys in the media have revised the BS rationale no-trade story so many times, I'm almost beginning to forget who Ferry had been trying to acquire in the first place. It was Raja Bell and Adam Morrison, right?
eliabeth, don't be silly. robert sarver and steve kerr would have taken any reasonable offer for shaq. the truth is that gilbert thought he could save a buck and still win. we all saw how that worked out. now, the cavs were the weak partner in the deal and still they did not have to give up west. it was a fabrication aided by steve kerr, brian windhorst and terry pluto.
Alan & Terje- I guess I'm not cynical enough to hang, my bad.
I just thought from what I heard from sources other than here, cleveland.com, espn.com, nba.com, foxsports.com, si.com, etc. maybe ONE of them might have had an inkling of what was up.
What I believed made a hell of a lot more sense than trading to get an over-the-hill player with a grudge to take on one player that we'd play four times, right?
I'm willing to believe the Suns pulled all of their trades off the table at the deadline last season, giving Alvin Gentry a chance to make the Playoffs with that squad. Remember, the Suns didn't trade Amar'e Stoudemire last season either, but he could find himself somewhere else soon as well. Just because a trade can be made today doesn't mean that it could have been made a few months ago.
Time changes things. At the trade deadline, the Cavs were rolling and they weren't worried about the Magic. Now they are.
And let's be honest, if the Cavs had made the trade for Shaq and still lost, does anyone really believe that people like Alan would be saying it was the right move to make?
Elizabeth, that fake story was originally disseminated by Ferry's national lackey, Chris Broussard at ESPN (who used to work for the Beacon Journal), and then Windhorst and Pluto ran with the BS like schoolgirls on the playground.
In fact, if you want to know just how tight those three are with that exact same Cavaliers purported "league source," read Windhorst's and Broussard's piece from yesterday first announcing the trade. They used many of the exact same words. Literally. THE EXACT SAME WORDS. Really. It's disgusting. It resembled like some of the high school papers I used to grade, when they assumed I was just far too dumb to realize they were all cribbing off of each other.
Alan and Terje …. You're wrong … Phoenix pulled out of the deal. The Suns wanted to see what they could do with a new coach. If you recall, Amare Stoudamire was hurt shortly after the trade deadline. Had that happened a few days before, things probably would have been different.
But can we all take a step back and not be so "Cleveland" right now (personal request)? The Cavs have Shaq and LeBron on the same team. Will it work? I have no idea. That's why you play the games. But I sure like my chances defending Howard in the low post better with Shaq than with Anderson Varejao and Zydrunas Ilgauskas. I mean … please.
This kind of stuff just does not happen in Cleveland. Can we please enjoy it? Even for one day?
Oh, and Mike, to answer your question, yes, I would have said it was the right move to make. Because then at least it proved they were trying to win at all, and that money indeed was no issue. All that mattered was the winning of a title. As badly has Ferry botched the past four years, that's really all anybody can ask, is for the effort to be made. It wasn't.
I look at that picture that Pat posted, which I assume was taken in February of James' rookie year. Basically, he is pictured there looking like Kevin Durant with a little more musculature. And then I think of the way Ferry has put a team together, and the way Sam Presti has put a team together. Presti and Durant, future NBA MVP, are going to have Magic Johnson's team of the 90s," which of course Magic said prior to that 1989 Ferry debacle. Presti will have 20, 21 and 22-year-old kids who have a lifetime of All-Star appearances ahead of them, and are all under contract . The team of the 2010s. And James is going to have … uhh … I don't know. Is anybody on this roster who will still be under contract for 2010 under the age of 60?
Pat, when even you're buying into whatever they're selling, then the readers are doomed.
Alan … I'm as cynical as anyone. And I'm not convinced that Shaq = title. But … facts are facts, and many folks have told me the same thing: The Suns pulled out because they wanted to try to make a run and they knew they could make the trade later if they so chose.
We'll see how this works on the court; there's a lot of teams that have imploded from excess talent. And Shaq is not young. But he averaged 18 and 8 last season, and he fills the need for a low-post defender against Howard.
For one day, I'm going to enjoy the fact they acquired a personality, a guy who makes things fun, who gets it. And I'm going to think how much fun it will be for this city to have these two personalities on the same team.
And they got him for a some leftover shoes and a ripped T-shirt.
Pat, the only folks who have told you that are all within the same circle. It's like when Windhorst and Pluto were duped for years by somebody with self-serving interests about James' Nike contract. Windhorst swore and swore and swore, all in good faith, mind you, that there was no big market kicker in the contract. Then somebody with *real* sources proved it was all a snow job. And Windhorst, to his credit, had to issue a major public mea culpa.
Why don't you ask Paul Caro or somebody in Arizona, or ask national guys with sources of solid foundation what happened in February. It had nothing to do with Delonte West, Adam West, the Suns will rise in the West, or any other kind of West.
And one more thing: how soon everybody forgets how they got Wallace and Pavlovic in the first place. You're calling Wallace and Pavlovic some leftover shoes and a ripped t-shirt. Pavlovic, if you recall, was, at the last minute, begged out of Europe by Ferry, who suddenly did a 180 and decided not to exercise Shannon Brown's option. And Wallace was hyped as a great defensive juggernaut as part and parcel of that trade. So now you are writing that Ferry acquired clothes and footwear? Why didn't you say that at the time?
pat, your saying that the suns went back to the 7 seconds or less offense with gentry AND kept shaq to make a run?????
as the purple one once said, "something in the water does not compute".
and i forgot to mention broussard. the third man in the propaganda department.
read adrian wojowhateverski from yahoo sports. he doesn't even entertain the possibility that it was the suns that backed out of the deal in february. and supposedly he's one of the most connected guys in hoops.
One final thing, and then unless somebody replies and says something awfully, awfully silly, I'm done:
To your point, I can see where you, from a personal perspective, are excited. Your job just became a lot more fun. But be very careful not to project your own personal pleasure into what is really happening in your world. You can't be a fan, you're a sportswriter. That's why they gave you the plastic press pass. Remember, this isn't TMZ.com, Pat, and your perspective and judgment has already been clouded to the readers' detriment. As Sergeant Phil Esterhaus used to say on "Hill Street Blues," let's be careful out there.
Pat, alan is never wrong about anything. hasn't he told you that already?
I'm curious to read what people think shaq does for the Cavs from a basketball standpoint. i dont care about a deal that fell through last february.
"i dont care about a deal that fell through last february."
translation: i don't care that the cavs didn't go all out to win a championship last year.
OK, like I said, something awfully, awfully silly …
andy, you SHOULD care about what didn't happen in February, which is the exact same thing that is happening now in June. Because what didn't happen then affects the question of what happens a little over 12 months from now. So yes, if you really care about Cavaliers basketball, if you really believe that Cleveland Cavaliers basketball dies if James leaves, then you *should* care.
If Ferry had any courage, which he doesn't, he'd now flip the bird at all the fawning fans and package Ilgauskas' expring contract in a deal. Of course he could be packaging Wallace's expiring contract right now, but hey, I guess that Wally thing is so 2008-2009.
I give. Uncle.
I wasn't in the meetings with Phoenix, so I can only go by what I'm told. My sources are not in the same circles as Brian Windhorst and Chris Broussard, but I trust the people telling me. I can only go by my reporting and judgment of my sources. That being said, I trust and respect Broussard and Brian greatly.
As for acquiring Ben … I think if you go back I wrote that at the time the Cavs re-arranged the deck chairs with those moves. Over time, I think they got a lot more out of Ben than Chicago ever did. Or would have gotten.
But in relation to a low-post presence, a guy who can defend Howard (and it was their prime problem in the East Finals), they got Shaq for nothing that will subtract substantially from their team. They gave up a guy who no longer fit (who they might get back anyway) and a guy who wants to retire and got a center who averaged 18 and 8 a year ago who is physically strong enough to stand with Howard.
It's a step forward. I like it on its merits, and on its personality. But, as I said, I'm not convinced this equals championship (is that not critical enough?).
I'm done arguing with you guys.
But … Alan … please don't question my integrity in being objective. I've got a long record to stand on. A long, long, long record.
If Shaq's in shape and healthy he will help tremendously and make starting Varejao at power forward much more acceptable. Telling Varejao he would start would go a long way towards signing him and if he continues to improve his little 10 or 12 foot jumper he'll fit next to Shaq perfectly.
It also makes Z better in that he'll get fewer minutes. He seems to be more productive that way and can make an impact.
Shaq is also a very good passer out of the post, which will open up another third of the court.
If he stays healthy, plus the Cavs keep Varejao and find a swing guy like Matt Barnes they'll be favorites in the east at minimum, I'd think.
I'm not saying you're not being objective, Pat. I mean, certainly not to Plutonian lengths. I just said to listen to Sgt. Esterhaus.
And as far as Broussard and Windhorst are concerned, I absolutely guarantee their "league source" is identical. With Google, there is very little that gets by anybody anymore. The past month, same words, same angles, same times, same everything.
Which brings me to another issue which I found quite disturbing and highly unethical. I am 100% certain about it.
I rarely look at Windhorst's and Pluto's stuff anymore. I already know what they are going to write. But I just learned something, and I want a professional sportswriter's opinion and other readers' opinion on it. At least one employee in the Cavaliers' PR department (I know who it is) has been posting comments under pseudonyms on the Plain Dealer's blogs. I have not yet gone through the Beacon Journal's blogs, so I don't know if he has been doing the same thing here. Pro-Cavaliers, pro-ownership, even pimping Windhorst and Pluto personally (gee, I wonder why those two, I just can't imagine those two are pro-Cavaliers organization).
The Golden State Warriors head public relations man was recently caught doing exactly this. Not pretty. Highly unethical. And now it has been happening with the Cavaliers. Again, I will not say who this one employee is, although I am confident he is not the only employee.
But here is not only where this person stepped on the line, but he crossed it and urinated on it. Indeed, he should lose his job for it regardless, but this was just unconscionable. Not only has he been posting strong pro-Cavaliers and strong pro-ownership comments (I have gone back, and it started well before now), but I have also caught him red-handed strong campaigning for Gilbert's casinos.
So, here is my question: Is this organizational? Or is this one individual (again, I know who it is) a loose cannon? As nobody in the Cleveland media is going to be an animal about this as those in the San Jose Mercury were investigating it, what should be done about this?
larry, of course they'll be better for it, wouldn't they be even better if the deal was done in February and they could not deal Wallace's contract separately?
Seriously, except for the fact that James grew up 45 minutes away, why would he even consider coming back? Who on the roster will be worth coming back for? Like any bad market, they already have to grossly overpay for the average talent free agent, and that is all they will be able to acquire in 2010 and thereafter. And as long as James is on the team, they will very low, relatively worthless first-round picks. They can't play Rent-A-Shaq or Rent-A-Karl Malone or Rent-A-Gary Payton and expect to persuade James to buy into a future where there obviously is none. There is no Ricky Rubio, Kevin Durant or anybody with any circa 1988 Cavaliers "upside" on the roster, either now or anytime in the foreseeable future.
So, they have Shaq. Yeah, a major upgrade over Ilgauskas. Two guys who won't be back in 2010. It's hard to get excited about wondering what George Allen's Redskins will doing in two years, because they'll all be in old folks homes. But yes, O'Neal can pass from the post, something Ilgauskas hasn't done since birth.
I need more details on this Alan, if you'd like to e-mail me. I'd say it's not ethical, but newspapers bring this on themselves by allowing folks to post anonymously when commenting on stories/blogs. Not only does it bring us folks like we see here (JOKE!), it allows folks to do what you describe (if it is in fact being done). In the old days, we had people who wrote letters provide name and address and we'd call to verify. Now anyone can come online under any name and write anything. It's our responsibility. And our own stupid fault.
You're the best Pat!
I am upset that the Cavs didn't win a championship. However dealing with "could haves" and "what ifs" only leaves people frustrated. the multitude of "what ifs" in cleveland's sports history can make any fan go insane, so i choose not constantly relive them. this trade was in fact an admission of fault by ferry and kerr for having not made it four months ago. In hindsight it would have been nice to have shaq but it didn't happen. now that we do have him i'm interested in seeing how much he helps.
thats what i meant when i said i dont care. terje, you and alan have a bad habit of telling people what they think, what they should think, and what their motives are. it's insulting.
I don't want you to name any names alan, but is it the fellow who's also masquerading as "Professor Will Huhn" over at the Akron Law Cafe?
I can just imagine Alan, Terje and Elizabeth calling Pete Franklin in the 'good old days'…that is after Pete had just hung up on Mr Know-it All.
i'm not telling anyone what they think. just what i think.
i've defended the team and the organization many times but i can't defend what has been going on since february. the fans are led to believe that dan gilbert is some deep pocketed win at all costs guy. he's not.
as wojonowhateverface put in his article:
As one prominent agent said Wednesday. “Don’t blame Steve Kerr for this. That owner [Robert Sarver] will do anything to save a buck right now.”
he was willing to save a buck four months ago too.
watching the cavs front office deal is like watching a bad spades player throw down cards. if you've played spades you know what i'm talking about. they waste the wally card by holding on to him instead of moving him. this in turn forces them to deal ben to get something that could have been had during the season while still keeping ben's contract for another deal. when you play the cards in the right order you can run the show. when you blow the first round by not making the right move you are forced to react to how the other people play.
either danny ferry is a terrible card player
or
gilbert isn't as rich as you think he is
if i'm lebron this move actually makes me less comfortable about staying in cleveland. the cavs are playing a shell game. they have nothing built for 2010 and some of the questionable moves make me wonder if the team would be as committed to spending money and winning if lebron resigns.
before february i would have never believed that there was a chance lebron would leave. the way ferry and gilbert are scrambling has to make people consider if lebron might just feel the same way i do.
It will be a huge free agency year in 2010 and the contracts of Shaq and Z will be coming off the books, no? They won't be in terrible shape, but we'll have to wait and see if a guy with a business called "QuickenLoans" suffered from the catastrophic subprime mortgage meltdown, I guess.
your criticism of ferry is valid if kerr would have taken wally instead of ben. but maybe only kerr and ferry know the answer to that question. we have the 3rd highest payroll in the league and we won 66 games last year, so ferry and gilbert aren't chopped liver. i mean we just got shaq on a one year deal for ben wallace and sasha pavlovic.
I think the real issue next season, as you stated terje, is orlando. can shaq help on howard? can we get a wing defender to help defend their pick and roll? most importantly, will turkoglu resign?
by the way the magic are about to et vince carter, i'm not sure what to think about this. http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4287197
Man alive terje. Let's p*&$ and moan over spilt milk a little more. Seriously!
Because you say so, the Cavs are the ones who took the deal off the table 4 months ago even though every other media outlet in the world reports that the Suns decided to make a run at the playoffs and were the ones who put the brakes on the deal. You make a compelling point, the only problem is that these news outlets have sources on the inside and you have your opinion.
Your attitude is what everyone is talking about when they mention the Cleveland "woe is me" attitude.
Give it a rest.
ditto what terje said, andy. I'm just giving my own opinion and separating the wheat from the chaff. You can take it or leave it, doesn't matter to me.
Oh, and larry, anybody who claims to be in a "law cafe" is questionable. Ever eaten in a law cafe? Me neither. And Tim, I don't think you would have enjoyed my calls to Pete Franklin. I got very cranky during the long hold times, and that's after you got past the screener. I remember once I literally fell asleep while I was on hold because it took so long, and then Franklin woke me up when he got on the line. I was in a dazed stupor. Besides, when I saw Pete at work in the studio that they set up for him at the Coliseum, that's when I realized he wasn't worth my time.
But funny you should bring up Pete Franklin, because I was just talking with somebody the other day and saying The Prosecutor was an extremely underrated caller. Second only to The Swami for entertainment purposes, but far more articulate, clever and intelligent than The Swami. Anybody else remember The Prosecutor?
If Vince coming to O-town means that the Magic can't resign Turkeyglue I feel very, very good about that as a Cleveland fan!
http://phoenix.fanster.com/suns/2009/04/28/robert-sarvers-bank-lost-more-than-the-suns-payroll-in-2008/
kerr's quote is great too.
anyone still want to believe that the suns pulled out of the deal?
larry-the team with the highest payroll is the knicks. they will be in the same situation as the cavs for 2010. lots of bucks to spend. one thing the knicks do right is blow cash. gilbert spends too—to a point. like i said, i've never supported the lebron to the knicks theory before. i think i've changed my mind. i hope i'm wrong.
i don't hate this trade. i just don't understand—why now?
dwhit—-not all the "sources" say the same thing about what went down with the suns.
Oh, and andy, here's the funny, incredibly hypocritical part of it: Why is anybody actually giving Ferry a truckload of credit for getting rid of two vats of waste that he himself acquired? Aside from all that face-saving crapola concocted for the February failure, that's the other thing that just astounds me. Don't you see the irrationality in it?
If I'm walking in the park, I step in a big pile of dog poop because I think it's a good idea, and then two years later I trade in those poop shoes for a pair of decent used shoes I found on Craigslist, am I deserving of the Nobel Prize because I've finally found a way to trade in my poop shoes, the poop which I *intentionally* stepped in, in for a different decent pair with no poop on it which is going to last no more than a year?
alan
paxon acquired pavlovic.
and the beauty of getting shaq on a 1 year deal is that it allows us to pursue bosh next summe cuz of the cap room.
If you're wondering if Gilbert's main business suffered, just know that they applied for the right to tap the TARP bailout cash. That's all you really need to know. A fact you won't read in the Northeast Ohio papers, obviously. But then, like so many other companies out there, they suddenly reversed course when they discovered how much government oversight there is and restrictions they are placing on executive compensation, not to mention the public relations backlash that was going along with it. So even though they need it, they aren't going to tap it.
I actually wonder if they are one of the 17 franchises tapping into the NBA's credit pool. It's like those 104 names on the MLB druggie list, the NBA keeps the names a big secret.
Uhh … andy, Ferry signed Pavlovic to a free agent contract. He was a restricted free agent. That's why the Count was hiding out in Transylvania until Ferry begged him to fly back. Literally.
And that delusional (sorry, andy) Bosh thing I simply don't understand, and you are certainly not the only guy to say it. If James and Bosh are going to play together, do you think they'd do it in Cleveland? Heck, no. They could pick and choose their market. Every team and their mother is going to have cap space.
And please don't tell me that James can get more from Cleveland. That's also the party line. So what? If push comes to shove, they'll do a sign and trade so they don't end up with absolutely nothing, and James still gets his max deal from Cleveland no matter where he's playing. The same way Seattle did a Rashard Lewis sign and trade with Orlando in return for a $9 million trade exception. It's better than ending up with zilch.
Wade won't like sharing the spotlight with James, so a prime spot like Miami isn't going to work. However, the Clippers … Eric Gordon, Baron Davis, Blake Griffin. That is a legitimate nucleus of talent with long-term contracts. Add James and one more top free agent, and you've gone from turd to NBA champion overnight.