Indians OK
Posted July 19th, 2007 by Ron
It seems that unless Byrd, Westbrook and Lee pick it up, the great offense and solid defense could get washed away quickly.
But I still look at the Mariners and the Yankees, I guess you have to include them in this conversation, and don't see a team that is better than the Indians.
Yes, the Indians have holes but I think Seattle's and New York's are bigger.
Terry Pluto is calling for adding Kenny Lofton to the mix. Lofton has big numbers and would allow Sizemore to move down in the lineup, but pitching is more important at this point.
July 19th, 2007 at 11:29 am
"Great offense?" What games are YOU watching? The Tribe scores 3 or fewer runs FAR too often. Seattle & NY are not the problem; the Twins will soon pass Cleveland, bank on it. And after getting their big contracts, what are Jake and Cliff delivering?…inconsistent garbage pitching. It's such a shame, because we all know there are better options for the rotation (Stanford, A. Miller, R. Perez), but the execs doled out all that cash, foolishly, and they have a well-documented history of sticking with ineffective veterans to the point that it costs the team a playoff berth.
July 19th, 2007 at 11:42 am
OK, I overstated the offense. How about the second-highest scoring offense in the American League?
July 19th, 2007 at 12:31 pm
The problem with that 2nd-highest stat is, the Tribe will go 1-3 in a series, winning 12-3, then losing 1-0, 3-1 and 7-2. We've seen it over & over. So that season-long stat means little. They are fading fast in July; it's hard to watch or listen to those games where the starter is inept (and that's over 50% of the time) and the hitters are swatting at flies.
July 19th, 2007 at 12:48 pm
Kenny Lofton is the Jim Jackson of Major League Baseball. For somebody with talent, he sure seems to wear out his welcome a lot.
July 19th, 2007 at 1:52 pm
Pluto's turning into the Foster Brooks of sportswriters. Keep him away from the liquor cabinet!
It's the large contracts for average, replaceable players that hurts teams most when it comes to payroll. Look at the Cavs.
July 19th, 2007 at 2:32 pm
I like that! The Foster Brooks of sportswriters. May I use it in the future?
Although, on second thought, Foster Brooks was a very, very funny guy. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Terry Pluto's opinions are supposed to be taken seriously.
July 19th, 2007 at 3:04 pm
You can use it anytime. It would be great if Pluto would start wearing a collar.
July 23rd, 2007 at 3:21 pm
I wonder what Pluto's wife is thinking when it's 3 AM and he suddenly starts tapping the keys on his laptop.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYusPRre07k
July 23rd, 2007 at 9:00 pm
Thanks for the Foster Brooks link Alan. I miss the old days when public drunkeness was still funny.
July 23rd, 2007 at 9:25 pm
HOW FOOLISH AND CHEATED MUST SHAPIRO FEEL, when he put all his chickens in the one basket of two overrated pitchers (Lee and Westbrook) who are now unable to give up fewer than 5 runs per outing. It doesn't matter how good you think a pitcher is, these long-term contracts are bad business. Who would ever take Cliff Lee in a trade for anything of value? Same with Westbrook. He started 1-7 a couple years ago, and here we go again. How many games will these two clown lose for the Tribe before the Tribe tries to package them both for Jeremy Guthrie? I'll make the deal, straight up.
I ask you, how could Cleveland invest all those millions in Guthrie, and give him exactly ONE major league start before declaring him a "bust?" It's the biggest weakness of the team…putting no faith in young, talented players. Think maybe Guthrie should've had the 5th spot in the rotation last year instead of signing Jason Johnson??!! Seriously, what is going thru Shapiro & his henchmen's stubborn heads?
July 23rd, 2007 at 11:06 pm
Jimbo, long-term contracts are bad business only if you sign the wrong guys to long-term contracts. Like Danny Ferry, for example. His long-term contracts were clearly idiotic from Day 1. You didn't need to wait a couple of years to find out what was clearly obvious at the time. John Hart seemed to usually do the right thing when he rolled the dice on his instincts for people who he thought had talent, and Shapiro seems to have a pretty good head for it, too.
Shapiro is in an awkward position. Nobody is going to voluntarily come to Cleveland, so if he gets a guy in a trade or through the farm system, if they appear to have legitimate talent, he needs to either sign them long-term, or likely lose them.
The locals weren't referring to Westbrook and Lee as "overrated" before. Seems awfully convenient to refer to them as "overrated" now.
July 23rd, 2007 at 11:08 pm
larry, was that last line facetious or serious? Can't tell.
July 24th, 2007 at 8:22 am
Only the truly uninformed, bandwagon-jumping fans could've thought that longterm deals with Jake and Cliff were warranted. Upon closer examination (a perspective the Tribe brass certainly should have had), these two were mediocre, barely above .500 pitchers, who served the chief role of clogging up rotation spots that should go to young talents. No other major league team would have left Adam Miller off its big club after this spring and his great 2006 season. But no, Cleveland is just too "stocked" with mediocrity…so Adam goes to Buffalo. Maybe things would turn out differently for these kids and their arms if they were given the chance to work at the ML level, instead of trying so hard to impress on the farm. Funny how Boston will throw an unbeaten rookie at us in this series; did he have worldbeater stats at Pawtucket? Or did the Sox just deem him worthy of a chance? Take a lesson, Mark and Eric.
July 24th, 2007 at 9:13 am
I was kidding though I always do get a laugh out of Foster and old Dino.
Westbrook and Lee are average or above average starters, just like Byrd. They'll always be valuable on the trade market because contenders are always looking for third and fourth starters. Those signings don't bother me too much, as long as the team is willing to take a chance and trade them when younger guys with more talent are ready for the big leagues.
It's probably always a tough call, going with a younger pitcher, but the Tribe sure blew it with Guthrie. He could have saved them several million this season alone.
July 24th, 2007 at 11:28 am
Tough call? Cleveland was 20-games out of 1st place at the All-Star Break last year, and couldn't give Guthrie 4 or 5 consec. starts (or even ONE)? Even I, as a casual observer, saw his potential when he'd pitch in relief. No, the organization soured on him early after their "too high" expectations. They deemed the worthless JJohnson more deserving of a rotation spot, and it led to a sub-500 year, millions wasted on Jeremy, and probably watching a young all-star pitch for Baltimore for the next decade.
Yeah, go cry about your money and pitching woes, Shapiro. Suck it up.
(Oh, and before you go trade for O. Dotel, please take it from one who has followed his career: WHAT is your fascination with this guy?? He was H-O-R-R-I-B-L-E in Oakland, and is a poor-man's David Riske. Don't touch this guy.)
July 24th, 2007 at 12:19 pm
Chris, I don't know of any better example of why Adam Miller is in Buffalo than Jeremy Sowers. Why rush him?
Do you want to know how your good buddy Miller is pitching in Buffalo? His last start?. Eight earned runs, 11 hits, 86 pitches, four innings. The start before that? Five earned runs in 2 2/3 innings. Shapiro made a huge mistake, let's get him up to the big leagues NOW.
I don't advocate breaking federal law, but doesn't anybody in the Indians organization have some relatives in Cuba? For God's sakes, they've won 10 straight Pan Am Games gold medals. Smuggle the Cuban C.C. to Shapiro in a shrimp boat.
July 24th, 2007 at 2:20 pm
Adam Miller was fine and pitching lights-out baseball this spring. After last year's success in AAA, what did he have left to prove? But the "pitching-rich" big league club lopped off like a goiter, in favor of the mediocrity we've come to witness this season. Maybe Miller gets injured up here, maybe not. But I'd rather have whatever quality innings he (and Matt Miller) had/have on their arms being utilized for something other than meaningless tosses at Buffalo.
July 24th, 2007 at 4:14 pm
Chris, they brought Miller back up in June. Then he got hurt again, he was sent back down to the minors, and now he's pitching like that very goiter you said they lopped off. So I don't see your point. Why set the guy up for failure and destroy his confidence all because there's a vague "possibility" he might pitch OK? I'm not saying they'll screw with his head and he'll start crawling around on the ground like Tony Horton, but why take the chance? They clearly rushed Sowers up too fast, and no doubt they're using that as a template for Miller.
Speaking of goiters, does anybody know where the Cavs can find a center?
July 24th, 2007 at 7:45 pm
Who gives a crap what the Tribe did in JUNE? They needed Adam in April, and Matt now. Stop making excuses for the Tribe's jacked-up method of bringing up farmhands. Mujica had no business here.
July 25th, 2007 at 12:26 pm
Miller got hurt in May. Miller got hurt again in June. And now he's stinking up the minors in July. Yes, this is uncontrovertible evidence that Shapiro is a complete moron.
July 25th, 2007 at 2:28 pm
Miller stinking up the minors, huh? Is that what you call a 2.01 ERA in 23 games, unscored upon at least since June 8, lefties hitting only .154 against him, and righties only .208? Huh, idiot? Are THOSE the stinkin' stats that the Cleveland Indians—widely in search of late-inning bullpen help—just cannot use?? Go ahead, Shapiro, trade away another promising youngster for some washed-up crap like Mota or Hernandez, and watch the guy you're paying to excel in Buffalo continue to mow down hitters. Yeah, you ARE a moron.
July 25th, 2007 at 11:43 pm
Unscored upon???????????? Read the post above. Not even remotely close. Who's the "idiot" here???
July 26th, 2007 at 12:56 pm
Seriously, Chris, why are you making stuff up? At least the Beacon Journal's sportswriters genuinely believe their own printed baloney. I mean, that's part of the fun and the charm of reading Terry Pluto's columns. On the other hand, I can't fathom that you actually believe your own words. In his last six appearances, his ERA is a atrocious 13.50!!!!!!!!! Lefties are hitting .154 against him, righties are hitting .208???????? In what roofie-induced universe???!!! Unless you've mistakenly jotted down numbers from a college library's Dewey Decimal System, what in the hell are you talking about???!!!
I find it hilarious, in a non-hilarious kind of way, that he's been shut down yet again!!! Miller is starting to make Larry Hughes look like Cal Ripken. Hurt in '06. Check. Hurt in May '07. Check. Hurt in June '07. Check. Hurt in July '07. Check. If Miller's parents have a sense of humor, they'll legally change Adam's middle name to "MRI."
July 26th, 2007 at 2:41 pm
If you had any brain at all, Alan, you'd realize the rest of us were talking about Matt Miller, the reliever, not Adam Miller, the starter, who we ALL know has been injured and ineffective recently and is now in Cleveland for testing. It is funny, in a sad way, to watch someone like you implode when they think they know everything about everything. Believe it or not, man, there are others of us out here who follow the sport just as closely, and are, in all likelihood, far more knowledgeable than you.
July 26th, 2007 at 2:47 pm
Dear Cleveland fans,
Those of you who get on radio shows and make up dozens of flimsy excuses for not going to Tribe games, and yet expect the owners to break the bank to sign players, please take note of C.C. Sabathia's remarks today.
THREE TIMES, he used the word "embarrassing," in reference to Red Sox fans outnumbering Cleveland fans this weekend. Also called it "disappointing." This is the guy you all are foaming-at-the-mouth to re-sign here, but get a clue: He believes you are an embarrassment. And he's right. Cleveland fans did not show up in the contending year of 2005, last year, nor this year. All money being nearly equal, if I were C.C., I'd take the first flight out to a West Coast city that supports its contending team. That is not here, and he knows it. Stop pretending that you're sending some "message" with your lack of attendance. The only message the players are receiving from YOU are that you won't support them, even against a top draw like Boston. You ARE an embarrassment, so live with the consequences.
July 26th, 2007 at 8:56 pm
POINT #1: Travis Hafner had a horrendous spring (hit one homer, if any).
POINT #2: His slump has now lasted Feb., March, April, May, June and July.
POINT #3: Cleveland just "rewarded" Travis with a $54-million contract.
QUESTION: What if last year was the abberation, and his current lack of production is what we will get from now on? Would you still have given him the contract extension?
OBSERVATION: I never thought Hafner would amount to anything, and was amazed when he put up some good numbers in past years. What if that was it? The peak is gone? What we see is what we get? Don't mock this point…it could well be true. You have no way of knowing it isn't over.
July 26th, 2007 at 9:49 pm
Cliff Lee is killing this team. Eric Wedge is aiding in the killing. We are fighting for a pennant, and we keep sending this perpetual loser to the hill? I'd wager Stanford, Laffey, Lofgren, Santos, or even R. Perez (too valuable in the pen) could do a more-effective job than Lee. Look back over his last 1-1/2 years. HORRIBLE. End this now, please.
The Tribe has more problems than just pitching. Like their non-existent offense. Look back over the last month (and season). This team cannot score. The lineup is filled with inconsistent, non-threatening pansies. No wonder fans aren't turning out. We can see the poor excuse for a team better than the friggin front office.
July 27th, 2007 at 12:19 am
Matt Miller? Why do the Indians need him? If the Indians struggle because they're missing a vagabond run-of-the-mill setup guy, then the pitching is in worse shape than I thought.
July 27th, 2007 at 8:46 am
alan t., do you just say ridiculous things to get a rise out of people? You make absolutely no sense, so I hope you're entertaining yourself. If you can't see that the Indians have at least two relievers at Buffalo with major-league experience and stellar numbers who could contribute more than Mastny, Cabrera and probably Lewis and Stanford at this point, then I truly feel sorry for you. Wouldn't it make more sense to give our internal players a chance, before we trade for some other team's "vagabonds," as you put it? Sadly, it seems Shapiro and Wedge are just locked in on the mediocre staff they have, and it will kill their playoff hopes. That, and an offense that struggles to muster 7 hits most nights. It's all been smoke and mirrors, folks. A .500 team since June 1, and they'd be nowhere without a career year from C.C. and a totally unexpected year from Carmona.
July 27th, 2007 at 2:08 pm
Seriously, what's the difference if it's Ira Newble or it's Mike Sanders at small forward? A guy like Matt Miller would really make a difference? Getting excited about a 35-year-old guy's temporary minor league "stellar numbers" is like getting excited about a guy's temporary "stellar numbers" in the NBA's D-League. It doesn't translate to much of anything. It's just silly to go nuts about Shapiro, he's juggling average White Castle hamburgers.