All-Star break
Posted July 8th, 2007 by Ron
Not much to complain about for the Indians in the first half of the season.
They sit one game behind the Tigers in the Central and hold a 2-game lead in the wild card over the Mariners. I said about a month ago that I thought the AL playoff teams would be the Angels, Red Sox, Tigers and Indians. And nothing makes me want to change my mind.
With Travis Hafner still not hitting and the Tribe in contention any way, that only can be a good sign because Hafner is going to get his hits.
It looks like two playoff teams in one year for Cleveland. It has been a while.
July 8th, 2007 at 6:17 pm
At least nobody in the media will be hollering from coast to coast that the Indians are the worst World Series team in professional baseball history. So in that respect, they're in better shape than the Cavaliers.
Shapiro has proven he's every bit as good as John Hart. The only things Hart had that Shapiro doesn't are bad hair plugs and fiscal flexibility. Even if they miss the playoffs, it's amazing what he's been able to accomplish with no margin for error.
Hey, how 'bout giving 'ol Sheldon the assignment of writing a multi-part feature as to why baseball is the only major sport without a salary cap. I'm going to miss Sabathia's waddle. It just ain't fair.
July 8th, 2007 at 7:28 pm
Tribe is too prone to full-team hitting slumps, which can account for them losing series to both Detroit and Toronto. In a short series, or in a must-win stretch (like the final week two seasons ago), this dependence upon inconsistent hitters—as well as HIGHLY overrated pitchers like Westbrook and Cliff Lee—can spell quick disaster. The Tigers have so much more offensive talent, it's sickening. And their "ace" pitchers rise to the occasion, unlike our "waddler."
You KNOW Oakland (where C.C. wants to play) will never, ever meet his outrageous contract demands…so we'll see if the Giants will actually be so stupid as to offer him a franchise-destroying deal on top of what they gave to Zito (for his, what?—six wins? ha ha). Oh, how stupid baseball execs are! They never learn.
July 9th, 2007 at 9:39 am
I can't think of any sports franchises that have been destroyed by high salaries. It's a myth perpetuated by leagues in hopes that communities will build stadiums. Even if a sports franchise loses millions each year (have teams ever really opened the books for the public?), they get it back in the hundreds of millions when a franchise is sold.
I spent the 1990s reading how the Tribe wouldn't win the World Series until they found an ace starter. They've got one now and I can't see that they're even trying to sign him.
July 9th, 2007 at 11:50 am
Larry, why hamstring a GM with an exorbitant contract, when there is no guarantee of continued excellence? Millwood got $60 million, and his ERA is over 6.00. Zito got $130-million, and Tom Mastny has just as many wins. A.J. Burnett and B.J. Ryan were given mega-deals by Toronto, and have both been injured, with Toronto still a sub-.500 team. Matsuka cost Boston well over $100-million, and our rookie Carmona has just as many wins. C.C. still cannot win a "must win" game, as he showed vs. the Tigers & actual-ace Verlander.
I'm much more inclined to allow our developing farm studs, like A. Miller, Lofgren and even Jason Stanford to take spots in the rotation, and upgrade other positions (i.e. with real hitters). All of this media and agent hype, trying to see who will get the next insane contract, is just ignorant. Let the teams who are out of the races, like Toronto, Chicago, NY and SF, continue to dole out their quarter-billions. Where has it gotten any of them?
July 9th, 2007 at 12:02 pm
(P.S.): Regarding C.C., he has absolutely no intention of re-signing with Cleveland, no matter the offer. He threw the team a bone with his previous contract, but he is now married w/children, and wants to go "home" to the Bay Area. Mark Schwab tried, in a pre-season interview, to get C.C. to admit the Tribe may have an edge in signing him to an extension NOW…but C.C. would not budge one bit. No matter how Mark phrased it, imploring C.C. to admit he would like to re-sign here, or what…C.C. gave ABSOLUTELY NO POSITIVE FEEDBACK to Mark. I knew then and there: He's gone. Surely Shapiro knows it, as well. Fans better get used to it: at some point, it's not ALL about the $$. C.C. has always wanted to play in his hometown, and rest assured, he will do just that, if those knuckleheads (SF or Angels) will pony up a decent offer. Don't blame the Tribe: they'd love to have him. But they can't move the franchise to do it.
July 9th, 2007 at 2:21 pm
No matter how many times an athlete says, "It's not about the money," in fact, it's ALWAYS about the money. If the Indians offered the most, he'd stay.
I know it's totally hypothetical fiction, but how would Shapiro or any other GM be "hamstrung" by a large long-term contract? It's baseball. Sabathia may look like a shorter, blacker, chunkier Zydrunas Ilgauskas, but that's about where the similarity ends. Shapiro already is working with beans.
And man, do some people have short memories. Where has it gotten them? New York recently won what, four World Series'? The Marlins bought themselves a World Series. The Red Sox bought themselves a World Series. I could go on and on and on, but why bother? It's just a silly statement to say that the size of the payroll has no correlation to the success of the team. Occasionally one will succeed on a shoestring, but that's the exception, not the rule.
July 9th, 2007 at 3:15 pm
Maybe C.C. is determined to return to California, or maybe it's all about the dollars. To me, the less he responds to questions about it, the smarter he looks.
But I would rather have C.C. and four young pitchers in the rotation than Byrd, Westbrook and three youngsters. Byrd and Westbrook are slightly above average, which is very valuable on the trade market. But I'm not sure their much better than Stanford and Adam Miller. They do make a lot of money, however, and their salaries would go a long way toward paying C.C. what he will demand on the open market.
To me, certain players are worth it in the long run anyway. When I think of the Indians, I think of Gaylord Perry, Sam McDowell, etc., etc. They were on terrible teams but they helped build or retain a sense of community loyalty to the team.
I think C.C. could be that kind of player because he can win Cy Young awards, go to all star games and maybe even approach 300 wins. Grady will be worth it, too, and Thome would have been.
In any case, it seems to me the money in owning a sports team comes in the long run. Many if not most franchises will soon be worth $1 billion. Owners who need to turn a profit year to year should get out of the business.
July 9th, 2007 at 6:33 pm
No, most franchises will not be worth $1-billion. The Indians, in fact, may not even be worth the $350-million the Dolans were ripped off for. When you provide a first-place team for fans, as Cleveland did in 2005 and now this year, and fans will not support it, I could not blame the owners for looking to move the franchise. Idiots locally are blaming the economy, their ridiculous-dislike of the owner, the lack of "newness" at the Jake, the success of the Cavs, the return of the Browns…anything to justify them not going to the ballpark. The money doesn't just "generate" out of thin air. If fans want the top-tiered players to be overpaid, they have to furnish the income. If they stay away, I suggest they just stop whining.
July 9th, 2007 at 6:42 pm
Why does anyone have to justify not going to a game? What do you attribute lower attendance to? I don't get it.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:25 pm
According to Forbes, the franchise was bought for $323 million, not $350 million, and is presently worth $364 million. So if you believe the figures, even with the stadium being consistently half-full (or half-empty, depending upon your perspective), the Dolans and their investors really aren't taking a bath.
July 9th, 2007 at 8:37 pm
The team is only worth what someone will pay. Know of any takers for $364-million? That's a far cry from a billion, btw. Dolans may not be "taking a bath," but they're not rolling in profit, either. No one has to justify why they won't go to a game. I only go when someone gives me a ticket, myself. But fans should not expect the owners to spend like a drunken sailor when they are not going to add to the team's income, especially when a quality product is put on the field. I highly admire Shapiro and the Dolans for sticking to a sensible budget for this market. It's a success, whether the complaining "fans" want to admit it or not.
July 10th, 2007 at 6:55 am
I'll bet teams like the Yankees and Dallas Cowboys are worth a billion already and it's only a matter of time for other teams.
If you bought a team now and held onto it for a decade you'd sell it for hundreds of millions more than you bought it for. If you bullied a city into building a new stadium, you'd make even more. I'm wondering if a major sports team has ever sold for less than it was bought?
This market has proven it will support teams that do well. I don't buy the Browns/Cavs excuse because I don't think people put together a "sports budget" that way. They buy tickets when they're excited about a team, and only the team is to blame when the fans aren't excited.
July 10th, 2007 at 11:51 am
I found this story to be rather interesting:
thttp://www.forbes.com/free_forbes/2007/0507/040.html
July 10th, 2007 at 11:52 am
Whoops. take off the 't' in front of it.
http://www.forbes.com/free_forbes/2007/0507/040.html
July 10th, 2007 at 12:32 pm
Really? A team in two pennant races (05 and 07) is to blame because the fans aren't "excited?" Is there any justification for being one of the 5 worst teams in attendance, year in and year out? I say Cleveland has the worst baseball fans in America. They'll jump on the bandwagon the last week of the season, but complain about a first-place team the rest of the year. There are so many other cities that would absolutely KILL to have the Indians, and that includes cities with current MLB teams (like Pittsburgh and KC) which do nothing but lose…and still outdraw the Tribe. This market just sucks for loyal baseball fanatics, sadly.
July 10th, 2007 at 1:55 pm
It is also a team that has let several homegrown all star- type players walk in the last several years, including two who are probably bound for the hall of fame. They haven't been to the playoffs since.
Blaming the fans is like blaming people for not buying pork chops. They're consumers and can buy whatever they want.
Personally, I'm excited about the Indians and think their front office and management do very well for the most part. I'm just disappointed that the team is going to let another homegrown all star leave without trying to sign him. They'll cry poor every time.
Thanks for the link, Alan. Do you think it's time to start a Save our Stadium chapter here in NE Ohio?
July 10th, 2007 at 2:28 pm
Ticket prices are already outta sight, and we're supposed to feel sorry for Albert, Thome & Manny walking for upwards of $100-mil. each? Gimme a break. It's nice that they may reach HOF #s, but the Tribe (crazily) offered Jim & Manny about $15-mil per season, and they turned it down. We didn't win a ring with all 3, so why break the bank to keep them? At some point you move on to the next generation. Else, why do we have a loaded farm system? It's time the owners get a grip on these ego-salary-maniac players who aren't worth the dirt in their spikes.
July 11th, 2007 at 12:16 am
With respect to Larry's question, I thought there already was a NE Ohio Save our Stadium chapter.
And Robb, it's not about "winning a ring," it's about putting an entertaining product on the field. Dan Gilbert would be the first to tell you it's all about game presentation. The sizzle, not the steak. Gilbert wouldn't give a rat's patootie if the Cavs won 15 games if all the seats were still filled.
In the case of baseball, it's all about the home run. Nothing makes people more excited than home runs. Nothing puts people in the seats than home runs. Do you think people go to a Giants game to see Bonds hit a single?
But even more than the home run, it's not about feeling sorry for Belle, Thome and Ramirez. And very soon, Sabathia. It's about pride and giving the locals something to hang their hat on. Like a Don Mattingly. A great player that both started and finished his career within the same organization. If Mattingly grew up in the Indians farm system, then went on to play for the Indians, you can bet your behind that he would have eventually spent a considerable portion of his career playing elsewhere. And that's the problem.
July 11th, 2007 at 7:51 am
Gilbert's "game presentation" is what fans c-o-m-p-l-a-i-n about. They don't about confetti, strippers, chasing lights, fat men dancing, deafening music. Fans want wins. Take away the W's, and no one will be at The Q for the strippers, guaranteed.
Indians have quality guys like Sizemore and Victor locked up for awhile. Can't fans hang their hat on them? Or must they just bellyache every time they see the end of a contract approaching 2 or 3 years away (forcing the Tribe to lock up mediocrity like Cliff Lee)? Just enjoy each season and each team. Aren't they giving you more than you've had the last two decades from the Browns?? Who, exactly, are fans hanging their hats on with THAT franchise?
July 11th, 2007 at 8:01 am
P.S. Last time I checked, Cleveland was ranked either #1 or #2 in the A.L. in home runs and runs scored. So where are the butts in the seats? Or must they all come off the bat of ONE player? Let us know, fans, should he be of Mexican decent and a vegetarian cat-lover, as well? Maybe that one star you crave should always wear blue on Tuesdays? Anything to make y'all happy, cuz it's "all about you."
July 11th, 2007 at 8:13 am
Sure, people would still be at the arena. You couldn't be more wrong. When you're as successful at selling hope as Gilbert's Cavs and the meek salesman media covering them, wins during the seven-year James era are and will be almost incidental.
And obviously, in light of the fact you're bringing up Martinez and Sizemore, you just don't "get it." You have no perspective whatsoever to be able to *really* understand why hanging on to your very best homegrown athletes is so vital.
I can always tell which guys posting only possess the experience of reading about folks like Gabe Paul. By the way, no, he was not the ex-husband of the gal that makes the fish sticks.
July 11th, 2007 at 1:15 pm
Well, know-it-all dude, I'm 46 and have followed the Tribe rather religiously since '74 when Gaylord sparked my interest in MLB. That's nearly 3-1/2 decades of being a solid fan; don't know exactly how much more "perspective" you expect people to have before they can make a candid point.
33 seasons x 25 players = 825. Am I sulking because Eckersley or Thome or Omar weren't lifelong Indians? Get real. Enjoy them when they're here, then find new faves when they move along. Geez, do you even "change" your socks or underwear? Time to go with the flow, bro.
July 11th, 2007 at 3:40 pm
Maybe Cleveland should see if Dave Kingman and Gorman Thomas are available, if that's all it takes to excite the Indian bandwagoners. You know, a .200 batting average…but, oh, the home runs! Guess we can live with those 200 strikeouts, too, because…oh, the home runs! I've got the tingles.
July 11th, 2007 at 11:15 pm
What "candid point?" The way Sabathia is pitching, a Hall of Fame career is not outside of the realm of possibility.
There needs to be a face of the franchise. All there is now is a stick attached to a little sack. For good reason, most fans are fed up with all the hobo Cleveland Indians looking to take the first horse out of Dodge whenever somebody waves a $10 bill in their face. Some things are bigger than just the player.
July 12th, 2007 at 12:39 pm
Hobos? Sizemore, Martinez, Sabathia, Hafner, Peralta, Westbrook and Lee have signed extentions in recent years. Carmona, Blake and Barfield will be here for years. Adam Miller & other young arms and bats are on the way. Mr. Tucker, you have a real distorted view of this team and its ability to sign players. If a person is after the "last dollar," there are always larger markets who can entice any player. But those aren't the kinds of players this franchise is built around. The Tribe will be competitive within reason, but cannot afford to pay 25 players $10-million each. That idiocy is reserved for the Yankees, Dodgers and Red Sox alone, whose markets, fans, lucrative TV deals, skyrocketing ticket prices, sold-out loges, and deficit-spending make it possible–but still does not assure a World Series appearance.
July 12th, 2007 at 12:48 pm
You immediately lost all credibility when you actually said the name "Blake."
I'm talking about Cleveland, recognized by the U.S. Census Bureau as the poorest city in the country. I'm talking about potential Hall of Famers. I'm talking about Belle, Thome and Ramirez, to name three. I'm talking about guys all raised in the Indians farm system. I'm talking about faces of a franchise. Sabathia is in this rarified air. To let him go without a fight to the death would be a travesty.
July 13th, 2007 at 6:40 am
Dude, you're just too strangely fixated on Sabathia. What's your deal? Are you in love with him, or something? Get a grip, he's one player, not a god. It wasn't that long ago that many fans were calling for him to be traded because he was so worthless as a so-called "ace." Now you've got him on some pedastal with Cy Young, Ryan and Clemens. Good lord, do you think the fans in Oakland go as ballistic when their star pitchers are dealt or walk (and they've had a boatload of them). It happens to all teams. Few, if any, players stay with the same team forever anymore. That's reality. The sense I get from C.C. is that he's going for top-dollar and Southern Cal. That's his right; no one's to blame. Just accept it, and get over it, man.