Click to see the beacon journal online
Homes   Jobs   Cars   Shopping
All Da King's Men -- Community Blog

Previous post:

Next post:

How Obama Will "Get Our Debt Under Control"

by Da King on February 15, 2012

in budget,economics,natonal debt,White House administration

Here's President Blameshifter explaining why he failed to fulfill his February 2009 promise to cut the budget deficit in half in his first term:

"…this recession turned out to be a lot deeper than any of else realized," Obama said about his inability to cut the deficit in half.

"Everybody who is out there back in 2009, if you look back what their estimates were in terms of how many jobs had been lost, how bad the economy had contracted when I took office everybody had underestimated it. People thought that the economy contracted 3%, it turns it was close to 9%. We lost 8 million jobs just in a year's span, about half a year before I took office and about a half a year after I took office," Obama said.

"So, the die had been cast and a lot of us didn't understand how bad it was going to get. That increases the deficit because less tax revenues come in and it means more people are getting unemployment insurance, we're helping states more so they don't teachers, etc. The key though is that we're setting ourselves on a path so that we can get our debt under control."

Here is what Obama's failure means in real terms:

According to the White House’s own figures (see table S-1 here for 2011 to 2013, and table S-1 here for 2010), the actual or projected deficit tallies for the four years in which Obama has submitted budgets are as follows: $1.293 trillion in 2010, $1.300 trillion in 2011, $1.327 trillion in 2012, and $901 billion in 2013. In addition, Obama is responsible for the estimated $200 billion (the Congressional Budget Office’s figure) that his economic “stimulus” added to the deficit in 2009. Moreover, he shouldn’t get credit for the $149 billion in TARP (Troubled Asset Relief Program) repayments made in 2010 and 2011 to cover most of the $154 billion in bank loans that remained unpaid at the end of the 2009 fiscal year — loans that count against President Bush’s 2009 deficit tally.

Adding all of this up, deficit spending during Obama’s four years in the White House (based on his own figures) will be an estimated $5.170 trillion — or $5,170,000,000,000.00.

To help put that colossal sum of money into perspective, if you take our deficit spending under Obama and divide it evenly among the roughly 300 million American citizens, that works out to just over $17,000 per person — or about $70,000 for a family of four.

We also had a 2009 deficit of $1.413 trillion. That fiscal year was shared between Presidents Bush and Obama, with Obama being the President for over 2/3rd's of it.

Prior to Obama becoming President, the largest single year federal deficit in the history of the United States was $458.6 billion. Only two years in American history saw federal deficits over $400 trillion. No President in American history has come close to running up the debt Obama has run up.

All this leads me to Obama's fourth budget proposal, which was released the other day. Here's how President Blameshifter allegedly puts us "on a path so that we can get our debt under control". According to Obama's budget proposal (you can find it at a previous link), by the year 2022 the federal deficit would be "slashed" to "only"….drumroll please…$704 BILLION…which would still be the largest federal deficit in American history prior to Obama becoming President !!!

You go, Barack !!! What a leader !!! I sure want you for a second term !!!…or NOT.

I can hardly wait to hear President Blameshifter's explanation for how that $704 billion deficit in 2022 is Bush's fault.

As the USA Today so aptly put it, 'Obama's Budget Plan Leaves Debt Bomb Ticking':

The election-year budget President Obama sent to Congress on Monday fails that test. Yes, Obama's budget has a lot of deficit reduction — some $4 trillion over the next 10 years. But the plan would still add $6.7 trillion in deficits over the next decade, with the debt-to-GDP ratio creeping up to about 77% through 2022. Beyond that, long-term figures buried deep inside the budget show the debt would shoot up again after 2022 and just keep going, driven by an aging population and the escalating cost of Social Security and health care.

By comparison, credible proposals from Obama's own deficit-reduction commission and by the Bipartisan Policy Center in 2010 both aimed at reducing the debt to 60% of GDP and keeping it headed down. Obama's plan does not even begin to do that. Nor, for that matter, does it fulfill his 2009 promise to halve the deficit by the end of his first term.

The USA Today only got one thing wrong there. Obama's budget plan does NOT have deficit reduction of $4 trillion over ten years. What it has is a deficit explosion of $6.7 trillion over ten years. The alleged "deficit reduction" only means Obama isn't going to run up as much debt as he planned to in his previous budget plans. Only in governo-doubletalk Newspeak can adding trillions of dollars in new deficits be referred to as "deficit reduction". Sometimes I think politicians are incapable of being honest. I'm fully convinced Obama is incapable.

Obama's budget plan doesn't fix our fiscal problems. It's a joke (and the joke is on us):

But the reason the president's budget doesn't fix the longer-term problem is that for all its spending cuts and revenue increases, it relies on gimmicks and avoids some problems instead of tackling them.

Most glaringly, Obama takes credit for about $850 billion in savings from winding down the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, which were paid for with borrowed money in the first place. These aren't "savings," notes the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget. "When you finish college, you don't suddenly have thousands of dollars a year to spend elsewhere — in fact, you have to find a way to pay back your loans."

In the problem-avoidance department, the administration continues to pretend that Social Security needs no fixes because it doesn't add to the budget deficit. Really? The administration's own numbers — see page 465 of the Analytical Perspectives released with the budget — show that the program is in the red and will drain the Treasury of half a trillion dollars from 2011 to 2017. Even in Washington, that's serious money.

Obama basically sticks to the liberal game plan – cut the military, raise taxes on the rich, and then pretend the real problems don't exist. He makes some inconsequential cuts to some departments, and raises the budgets of others.

The Republicans were quick to jump all over Obama's budget, saying the President's "deficit reductions" are exaggerated. From The NY Times:

At the heart of Republican objections is accounting. Mr. Obama boasted of $4 trillion in deficit reduction over the next 10 years in his proposal. Republican budget writers on Capitol Hill saw a fraction of that, as little as $300 billion.

At issue is how the government projects spending and deficits. Of the $4 trillion in deficit reduction noted by the White House, $3 trillion would come from tax increases and spending cuts. Another $900 billion would come from domestic spending caps agreed to with Republicans last year to resolve the impasse over raising the nation’s statutory borrowing limit.

But if Congress and the president did nothing but continue current policies, Senator Jeff Sessions of Alabama, the ranking Republican on the Budget Committee, said the accumulated debt over the next 10 years would be only $300 billion higher than the debt Mr. Obama is projecting if all his policies are adopted.

In large part, that is because automatic cuts to military and nonmilitary programs totaling $1.2 trillion are already set to go in force in 2013. The Obama budget assumes those cuts will not happen. The president also assumes that sharp cuts to reimbursement rates for doctors treating Medicare patients will not ever go into force. Republicans say that effectively negates $522 billion over 10 years.

Republicans also protest that President Obama is “saving” nearly $1 trillion by not spending over the coming decade what the United States has spent each year on wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. True, a Republican administration may have unwound those wars more slowly than the Obama administration has, but Republican budget writers say that no one believes combat costs would have stayed steady over the next 10 years. Therefore, counting savings is misleading, Republicans say, since the savings come from money that would never have been spent.

As Senate Budget Committee Republicans count it, the $1.2 trillion in automatic spending cuts that Mr. Obama wants to negate, the $522 billion in Medicare physician reimbursement costs and the war savings from spending that was never going to happen should be subtracted from the $3 trillion in new deficit reduction that the White House is presenting. That leaves about $300 billion in real deficit reduction over the coming decade.

So much for "deficit reduction".

Obama's previous budget proposal failed in the Senate by a unanimous bipartisan vote of 97-0. I doubt this one will get much further, and I doubt Sen. Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) will even bring it up for a vote. The Democrat-led Senate is averse to doing their jobs and passing budgets these days. That's why the Democrats haven't passesd a budget in three years. They're afraid the American people might find out the truth about them, which could really hurt at the ballot box. The only party passing budgets and solutions to our real problems are found over in the Republican-led House. The Republicans are the people Obama and Reid call "obstructionists"…and they think you are dumb enough to believe it.

P.S. – President Obama's first budget proposal in 2009 was laughably named 'A New Era Of Responsibility". Since that time, Obama has run up $4.47 trillion in new debt. It will be well over $5 trillion by the time the election rolls around.

Anybody But Obama in 2012. I beg you once again. The future of our country depends on it.

  • Anonymous

    Actually, USA Today got several things wrong, including the debt to GDP ratio. It is just blatant misrepresentation to try to say that our debt ratio is only 74% of GDP unless we are not going to fund Social Security anymore or otherwise be responsible for so called 'off budget' expenses. Any person who has ever paid into Social Security should be screaming at the top of their lungs any time these percentages are used. We all know that our debt is already above 100% and climbing quickly, not 'creeping' from 74% to 77% over the next 10 years. Of many odd aspects of this budget, maybe the most interesting is the assumption that corporate taxes will more than double within the next couple years. We might as well be Alice in Wonderland with anything that comes out of Washington any more. Nothing is real. Nothing makes sense. The only difference is it is more like going down a rat hole rather than a rabbit hole. We might as well replace our education system with Dr. Suess. Our decline probably wouldn't come any faster.

  • Anonymous

    Anyone but Obama in an article discussing debt.  Have you even looked at the plans from Romney and the others (aside of Paul)?  Romney's plan alone would decrease revenue by over 6 Trillion (yes, with a capital T) in the next decade.  Congress can't find 2T to cut but somehow he'll find 6 just to break even with his revenue chopping for friends?  Give me a break.  The "anyone but" comment was ignorant when it was said about Bush and remains every bit so now.

  • Anonymous

     http://www.gocomics.com//michaelramirez/2012/02/15

  • Anonymous

    According to Gallup if your "anybody but" is anybody but Romney you're in deep shinola.  Romney is not assured.  http://www.gallup.com/poll/election.aspx             

    Maybe if you keep calling him a moderate you'll be able to convince a few more independents to vote for him so he can get the job in spite of all the vitriol coming out of the far right.

  • Anonymous

     What on earth are you babbling about, Fryy?

  • Anonymous

    Excellent comment.

    You are completely right. Only counting the public portion of the debt as debt is trickery. It is deceptive. You are also correct that the underlying assumptions of growth in Obama's budget (which I failed to mention) are little more than fantasy.

    I think we should always assume these budgets are the rosiest scenario possible. In Obama's case, even the rosiest scenario is mighty bleak.

  • Anonymous

    You left a lot out, mainly about Romney's ideas to handle entitlement reform, which is the main driver of future federal spending. Cutting around the edges of government only gets us so far. Obama has failed to lead at all on the issue.

    And unlike Obama, Romney has already balanced a budget before.

    Romney's business tax cuts will help job creation. I only wish he was even bolder on this front. Going from 35% to 25% isn't enough.

    Most importantly of all, Obama has failed completely. He had his chance. Now it's time to give someone else a chance. We know what we get with Obama – financial destruction.

    I repeat, Anybody But Obama in 2012. You may want to stay on the Titanic, but I want to get off the ship.

    If in four years things aren't better with Romney, then we should make another change.

  • Anonymous

    I like Ron Paul the best, but Romney probably has the best chance of beating Obama. Whoever the nominee is, I think we should give him a chance. We already know what Obama will do, and it's really ugly.

  • Anonymous

    9 million workers lost their jobs over a 12 month period.

    Contrary to conservative folklore, a loss of 9 million jobs over 12 months is not reflective of some normal business cycle. Instead, it's reflective of a goddamn disaster in the making.

    Obama's deficits reflect that disaster.

    Furthermore, any grief counseling session, self-administered or not, which moans and wails over deficits while simultaneously moaning and whining over raising revenues to help deal with those deficits…..can't be taken any other way than as a partisan screed.

    Today's jobs number is a four year high going back to March 2008.

    As you have acknowledged in the past…..deficits can't be eliminated until the economy recovers.

    It's recovering under Obama.

  • Anonymous

    Since you introduced Alice….."corporate taxes will more than double within the next couple years."

    Any evidence to go with that hallucination?

  • Anonymous
  • Anonymous

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/budget/fy2013/assets/tables.pdf

    Table S-4

    Corporate income taxes in this budget are expected to grow from 181B in 2011 to 281B in 2012, 365B in 2013, 459B in 2014. In Obamaland, corporate taxes more than double in two years at the same time GDP rises 5% in 2014 and 6% in 2015. all with new Obamacare and Dodd-Frank hanging over our heads.

    I believe.

     One pill makes you largerAnd one pill makes you smallAnd the ones that mother gives youDon't do anything at allGo ask Alice, when she's ten feet tallAnd if you go chasing rabbitsAnd you know you're going to fallTell 'em a hookah smoking caterpillarHas given you the callTo call Alice, when she was just smallWhen the men on the chessboard get upAnd tell you where to goAnd you've just had some kind of mushroomAnd your mind is moving lowGo ask Alice, I think she'll knowWhen logic and proportion have fallen sloppy deadAnd the white knight is talking backwardsAnd the red queen's off with her headRemember what the dormouse saidFeed your head, feed your head?

  • Anonymous

    See DA_King;s reply below.

  • Anonymous

    I think Paul is perhaps the most interesting person you could sit down and talk to over coffee.  He's right about foreign entanglements.  But you have to get a  good chunk of the independents who voted OB in to change parties, at least for this election,  and I don't think they'll do it for a libertarian.  I have some serious doubts they'll do it for Santorum.  It's pretty clear they won't back Gingrich.  Who can get the independent vote is more important than who can win the TP vote – except of course the TP-ers have to realize that and start trying to figure out what happened to the bid lead of 15 months ago and why.

  • Anonymous
  • Anonymous

     What happened to the big lead was sensible compromise, in the form of zero budget cuts coming from the dog and pony show Boehner and the Dems put on in regard to the debt limit fiasco.

  • Anonymous

    They should rename that to the Death Clock.

  • Anonymous

    And now the Reverend will slink away :)

  • Anonymous

    An Obama apologist appears !!! Oh, what fun.

    A $704 billion deficit in 2022 (as Obama's budget projects) is reflective of something that happened in 2008-2009 ? I knew someone would try to pass Obama's failure off as Bush's fault. Good job, Rev.

    Jobs and debt are definitely our two biggest problems,….though perhaps you haven't heard… raising taxes causes the private sector economy to contract, which is antithetical to job creation. That's no "partisan screed", it's basic economics.

    Government spending is the main problem (though you didn't even mention it), and under Obummer it has styrocketed up to 25% of GDP, far above the historical norm. I'm thinking that if Obama hadn't increased spending by about $900 billion per year over 2008 spending levels, we'd be a whole lot better off, though I suppose it is possible my grade school math teachers were all right-wing extremists, filling my lititle head with all that 1+1=2 wingnuttery.

    And, as I posted about the other day, the workforce participation rate is already the lowest in thirty years. This recovery has been exceedingly weak, and is impeded by Obama big government policies.

    Maybe you should start pushing for a new $2 trillion stimulus or something, to make the economy appear better than it really is for Obama's re-election bid….as long as your defending fiscal insanity, that is.

  • Anonymous

    Ron Paul and the Libertarians are right about all kinds of things, but I'm well aware not enough of the American people have caught on yet. People like to stick with the status quo, even when the status quo is driving us off a cliff. It's a mystery, but it's a fact. It's a hard sell when you tell people the gravy train has run off the rails. Heck, lots of people in Greece still won't accept it, and that country is completely bankrupt.

  • Anonymous

    Yeah but lots of those Greeks are on the winning side come national election time.

  • Anonymous
  • Anonymous

    let's think about this for a minute…..if we could close the loopholes and get a big corporation like GE to pay a 3% corporate  rate…..that would effectively triple their tax

  • Anonymous

    I didn't need to include his entitlement reform because it won't cover his 6 TRILLION dollar hole he is creating.  

    Sorry, that "I did it once before" argument is hollow for a few reasons:

    First, 3 billion is hardly the same as trillions (more of which will be created by his own suggested policies).  Second, I'm surprised you mentioned his balancing since part of that included raising corporate taxes in the state by the total of 700M.  Since that one is out (he'll of course cut them for his buddies) that leaves his only other method of balancing which was to raise fees statewide on several items.  A good idea for the state but not one that will work at the federal level with the scope of the task at hand.  As such, that argument doesn't hold water.

    How EXACTLY has Obama failed completely?  He took over a diving economy and either by luck or by design prevented a full blown depression with his stimulus package.  (Among other factors of course)  The past 23 months have shown job gains each month (which by the way the drop in unemployment began the month following the stimulus just as an fyi).  The auto industry and manufacturing as a whole is beginning to show signs of life or in some areas record profits.  And finally, we're out of that money sucking hole Iraq that Bush and Cheney threw us into and working on leaving Afghanistan while at the same time retooling the armed forces for more strategic effectiveness all for a much lower hit to the budget.  Again, how are those failures?  And if those are failures what the heck was GWB's tenure filled with!?!?  I'm guessing you must of voted for Kerry then in 04 based on your previous logic?

    Since you again repeat that woefully ignorant line, I'll go ahead and use your logic and write your next Blog Title for you… "Da_King supports Michael Moore for President!"  Your words, ANYONE would be better.

  • Anonymous

     We're in a full blown depression. The stimulus was a slush fund for Dem politicians and interest groups, green energy charlatans and union and corporate cronies. It didn't stem anything, except the natural swift recovery that occurs immediately following most crashes.

  • Anonymous

    Sorry, economists would completely disagree with you, and since they have an education on the subject and facts to back their statements I'll side with them.  When exactly was the last time a "full blown depression" was marked with almost 2 years of job growth and record corporate profits? 

    So it was pure coincidence that unemployment began dropping after the stimulus was put into effect?  Good luck for the President I guess.  I'll guess you probably think the auto bailout also didn't have an effect?  (Which was initiated by GWB by the way and implemented by Obama)

    You might want to step away from the Fox News on occasion and for giggles check your "facts", assuming they matter to you.

  • Anonymous

    Economists don't completely disagree with me at all. I heard the chief economist from the Fed Bank of Atlanta speak on this topic just a week ago, in fact. He said the consensus among economists is that we've still got years to go.

    Job losses started dropping in Jan. 2009, well before the stimulus went into effect. The Bush recession ended naturally that June, well before any effects of the stimulus took hold.

    The economy's been skipping along the bottom ever since. The slight decrease in the UE rate lately is due to folks giving up looking for work, as the recent CBO report outlines fully. One in seven Americans of working age can't find a decent job and it will remain that way for the foreseeable future. That's a depression.

    You have fallen prey to the Soros propaganda sites, obviously.

  • Anonymous

    I'm not saying the economy is all smiles and sugar but it is not in a depression as you claim.  A GNP growth of 5% and GDP growth of 3% in 2010 is hardly a depression or anything close to it.  Unemployment is higher than what people would like at 8% but certainly not the 25% level of the last true depression.  Sorry, sounds more like you've drank the hatorade.

  • Anonymous

    Reality_Speaks exposes his red neck when he reduces the argument to "Fox News". He somehow believes that he is brilliant with his comment about the stimulus package preventing a full fledged depression yet thinks larry d. is drinking the 'hatorade" when he responds in lie fashiion to those comments.

    He also gives away his bias when he reduces the argument to Bush vs Obama, as though the people who he is conversing with are as quick to default to his own simplistic stereotypes. How ridiculous can anyone be to believe that a stimulus program that was largely wasted and added almost nothing to infrastructure saved our economy. Apparently he is also in the new Democrat paradigm that no longer understands business cycles and believes that unless a government takes over for business, it will eventually wither away. What a foolish mentality we are now trying to sell just to keep this president from having to take credit for extending our malaise indefinitely. He appears clueless to the millions of free market businesses that keep this economy afloat or how government intervention and hostile actons toward them has changed their behavior and kept them away from the normal investment that always, always turns an economy around. Anything these clueless fools who are now running the show do, (a group who almost universally have never run a business in their lives) is at best one step forward, two steps back from a normal business cycle. Is he just clueless about a supposed 8% unemployment number or is he just peering through the looking glass of Obamaland at a pool of tears? has he considered real unemployment or youth unemployment (the same youth he expects to pick up the tab for the 'me' generation) or black unemployment? Wake up to the real world, Reality. You are living in an alternative universe.

  • Anonymous

    Well spoken factless, assumption filled diatribe.  Had you taken the time to actually read the statements I wrote perhaps you would not have jumped to your own conclusions and assumptions.  Then again, some of your assumptions and conclusions are based entirely on items outside of what I had even written so perhaps not.

  • Anonymous

    Here are the facts. The average age of an automobile is at historic highs in this country, even after millions of used cars were destroyed in the useless Cash for Clunkers program. Real black youth unemployment is at historic highs at almost 50%. Bla

  • Anonymous

     It's hilarious that you'd compare UE rates without noting the changes in how they have been presented between the 1940s and today. I assume you've either been living in a cave these past few years or are making a dishonest argument.
    There's no agreed-upon definition of a depression, but does any of the following sound familiar?:

    In economics, a depression is a sustained, long-term downturn in economic activity in one or more economies. It is a more severe downturn than a recession, which is seen by some economists as part of the modern business cycle.

    Considered, by some economists, a rare and extreme form of recession,
    a depression is characterized by its length, by abnormally large
    increases in unemployment, falls in the availability of credit—
    often due to some kind of banking or financial crisis, shrinking
    output—as buyers dry up and suppliers cut back on production, and
    investment, large number of bankruptcies—including sovereign debt defaults, significantly reduced amounts of trade and commerce—especially international, as well as highly volatile relative currency value fluctuations—most often due to devaluations. Price deflation, financial crises and bank failures are also common elements of a depression that are not normally a part of a recession.

    There is no agreed definition of the term depression, though some have been proposed. In the United States the National Bureau of Economic Research determines contractions and expansions in the business cycle, but does not declare depressions.[1]
    Generally, periods labeled depressions are marked by a substantial and
    sustained shortfall of the ability to purchase goods relative to the
    amount that could be produced using current resources and technology (potential output).[2] Another proposed definition of depression includes two general rules: (1) a decline in real GDP exceeding 10%, or (2) a recession lasting 2 or more years

  • Anonymous

    Again, try to read.  I didn't say the stimulus was the savior of the economy only that when it was put into effect the economy began to change.  I even said obviously other factors were at play.  Also, I'm quite certain the age of US cars is not a factor when claiming the country is in a depression.

    As for turning things over to the businesses and removing regulations, that claim is a total crock.  Government is far from efficient but if history has proven anything it is that unregulated industries will have a single goal, maximize wealth for that organization/person regardless of the consequences (ie – market crashes, the environment, unemployment, insider trading, etc).  Drill baby drill may be the only thing less intelligent than claiming full deregulation will fix everything.  We are EXPORTING oil.  More oil is not the answer.  Want to fix high oil prices?  Look at increasing refining and shutting down the futures speculators.  How about natural gas?  There is such a surplus now that drillers are shutting down wells to prevent the price from dropping anymore.  Doesn't sound like a capacity issue to me.

  • Anonymous

    Again, try to read the entire statement.  I said 2010 saw 3%.  Want a full listing, go here:

    http://www.tradingeconomics.com/chart.png?s=gdp%20cqoq&d1=20070101&d2=20120218

    Yes, the last 6 months have been below 3% but all have been positive and the last 4 climbing. (with the last few in the mid 2s)  

    As for comparing rates, of course they were calculated differently but even taking that into effect we're not at those levels (or close).  How do you explain corporate profits at all time highs?  How do you explain the continued widening of a wealth gap?  (As in the rich getting a greater percentage of the pie and everyone else less)  In a depression, EVERYONE would be getting less.  I'm still not arguing that the economy isn't perfect but a depression it is not.

  • Anonymous

    Okay, I thought you were saying tax rates would double. My mistake.

    The doubling of corp tax revenue is a projection. But if Big Corp keeps registering near record profits every year, then maybe the projections will be close.

    Dodd Frank doesn't go nearly far enough and ObamaCare will not bring the end of the world.

  • Anonymous

    The main drivers of our deficits are the Bush tax cuts. Deficits add up and increase the debt. Going back to Clinton rates will take $4 trillion off the debt in 10 years.

    That would be a big deal.

    SS needs to raise the cap and then be left alone. Medicare can only cost less if medical care costs less. That's what ObamaCare partially addresses….but without a Medicare for all option…costs will probably go up. Not Medicare's fault……medical industry's.

  • Anonymous

    That's why they are looking to cut $600 billion from defense? Because they have zero budget cuts? I'm not following.

  • Anonymous

     I saw what you wrote. You left out 2011 because it didn't fit your talking point. The growth sucks, as does the economy as a whole.

    We're over 15 percent unemployment.

    You seem to have your own definition of depression, one I'm not familiar with. It kind of boils down to we aren't in one now no matter how many folks are suffering because Obama is president.

  • Anonymous

     The budget continues to grow.

  • Anonymous

    I left out 2011 because I didn't have it in front of me and posted a linked in my response including it so once again, your assumptions are incorrect.  The fact is, in 2011 there was POSITIVE GROWTH.  That doesn't happen in a depression.  Ironic, your definition seems to be because Obama is president we have one.

  • Anonymous

    Yes, I see. You had 2010 in front of you but not 2011.

  • Anonymous

     Do you ever take a step back from the knee jerk talking points? Does it mean anything to you that even though there is no oil shortage at the moment that a barrel of oil is still more than $100 and we are paying record prices for gas at the pump for this time of year? The problem isn't current supply, nor is it a problem of free markets that allow speculation. It is the recognition that with the snap of a finger by a few players things could change overnight. We have no confidence of future supply, just as businesses have no confidence in government clearing the road for future growth. Prices reflect risk. Investment reflects risk. That doesn't change by trying to take speculators out of a market any more than it would change by setting price controls. Both of those approaches work against healthy markets.

    It is ridiculous to assume that free markets lead to crashes when people are actually using their own money and speculation can just as easily lead to loss as profit. All that speculation does is find balance in a market to support a high enough price to encourage production at the same time free market competition brings prices down to lowest acceptable risk. Free markets always find that balance. The only exception to speculation working to find appropriate pricing is when a monopoly is created. That is almost never possible in a free market. Those who attempt monopolies almost always lose their shirts since in order to attempt to corner a market they must eventually purchase the commodity at a much higher price than it's true market value. Monopolies are much more likely to occur when players are artificially limited than when they are abundant. In reality, Reality, almost all monopolies result from government interference, whether it is price manipulation or product manipulation.

    That is not to say that there should be no regulation and your knee jerk response that eliminating as much regulation and bureaucracy as possible is the same as having no regulation at all. The reality, Reality, is that almost none of our current infrastructure in this country would have ever even been built if we had our current rules in place. It was telling a couple of years ago when Christie decided that a new tunnel to New York would not be built due to the cost. The last tunnel that was built was a century ago. It is just one example of a system that accomplished much more in a tenth of the time as long as a century ago even though technology was nothing compared to today. Our technology is not letting us down but our ability to get much of anything off the ground due to over wrought hand wringing and a misguided belief that government can take over for the free markets is turning America, under the so called leadership of the 'me' generation, into a second tier nation that is living on it's parent's post WWII accomplishments and it's children's and grand children's credit cards.

  • Anonymous
  • Anonymous

    Your entire first paragraph only proves my point.  Call it want you want but it is speculation by the few in control of the market that is driving prices up.  The days of a single monopoly are likely gone, I agree, but collusion among the few strong players, such as with oil, certainly is alive and well.  When you have only those in power making great profits, it's become acceptable (to them) to join together and ensure they stay in control of the market.  Your idea that markets run wild would lead to betterment of all is as you said, ridiculous.

    With regard to your last paragraph, I agree with the statement that we are certainly doing less with more now but not for the reasons you may claim.  Back then, the project was completed because it was necessary and for the country.  Now, the project is done (or in many cases not done) because it's all about the profit and CYA. Prices are up because everyone wants to file lawsuits for everything, companies only provide the absolute cheapest safety as required by law to save money (which makes the legal issue worse) and the stockholders are making the decisions based on their returns.

  • Anonymous

    There is a big difference between manipulators who skew markets and speculators who reflect the realities of uncertainty and risk in a market. The answer to that isn't further manipulation away from true market values. It is to supplant the manipulators and reduce the uncertainty and reflected risk by developing a stable and dependable energy supply.

    Reality, you can't really believe that  we have more lawsuits now because of more accidents. How ridiculous can someone be. It takes decades to even get permits in many cases now before the first shovel is even lifted. And did you just come to understand that businesses have an obligation to make a profit for investors? Or that profits allow business to expand and jobs to be created?

    blah, blah, Fox News, blah, greedy profit, blah, unsafe work conditions, blah, blah, blah. Every generation has it's prejudiced rednecks full of overblown hyperbole and baseless stereotypes. It might as well be you, Reality.

  • Anonymous

    Someone is quite pleased with themselves aren't you?  (This is in response to your "lecture" below in case you can't figure that out.)

    There is a difference between speculators and manipulators, some of the time.  Other times, there is not.  In more recent times, it's been the latter.

    I never said we have more lawsuits now because we have more injuries, you did.  In fact, my first line was that "everyone wants to sue for everything".  Next time, update your "lecture" notes accordingly.  Yes, your insightful reply was the first time I ever realized that businesses have a responsibility to their investors.  Seriously, get over yourself and your snide remarks and try to have an adult conversation.  Again, I never said they didn't.  I said, that now that is their main and in some cases, sole purpose.  Throughout history that was not always the case.  Sure, making a dollar was good, but doing it in spite of anything else not nearly as much.

    I love how you like to throw out that term stereotype so much.  I have another term for you… mirror.  Check it out sometime.

  • Anonymous

    Anyone who dismisses others with the meaningless 'Fox News' dismissal usually has little to say. So far I haven't seen much to change that view. When you can finally bring yourself to discuss the problem of nuisance lawsuits or projects that are held up for decades rather than brushing them off with ignorant dismissal, maybe you will be taken more seriously. When someone tries to say that we have adequate energy supply and the problem is speculators, that person needs an education about how markets work.

  • Anonymous

    By your remarks it is clear that anyone who does not share your views needs "an education about how work."  Unfortunately, much of what you spout is not educational.  Have you noticed we are exporting record amounts of oil and have a massive, massive amount of natural gas supplies (to the extent producers are idling wells to increase the price/prevent further declines)?Perhaps you've just been too busy "educating" the lowly stereotypes.

  • Anonymous

    This isn't about opinion, as ridiculous as it is to say that the church is forcing others not to have birth control. Rather, by your remarks, you have no idea what drives markets or investment decisions. First clue. It has nothing to do with Fox News..

Previous post:

Next post:

 

© The Akron Beacon Journal • 44 E. Exchange Street, Akron, Ohio 44308

Powered by WordPress
Entries (RSS) and Comments (RSS).