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Restoring Honor vs. Reclaiming The Dream

by Da King on August 29, 2010

in Uncategorized

Talk show host Glenn Beck held a rally called Restoring Honor at the Lincoln Memorial, the site of the Rev. Martin Luther King's famous I Have A Dream speech in 1963. After Beck announced his plans, Rev. Al Sharpton and other accused Beck of "hijacking the dream," and planned an opposition rally of their own, called Reclaim The Dream.

Beck's rally drew hundreds of thousands of people (I'm hearing 500,000+).

Sharpton's rally reportedly drew thousands of people (I can't find a crowd photo or a crowd estimate, so it must have been pretty small.)

Because official crowd sizes on the Natonal Mall are no longer calculated due to arguments over the size of the crowd at the 1995 Million Man March, the actual crowd size at Beck's rally is only a guesstimate. Below is a photo of the Million Man March crowd, calculated to be 400,000 people. You can compare this crowd to the Beck crowd above and judge for yourself.

As per usual, the left-leaning mainstream media (MSM) felt the need to severely underestimate the size of the Beck crowd. CBS reported the crowd size at 87,000, so they could claim Beck fell short of his stated goal of 100,000. CBS used partial crowd shots (trick photography) to back up it's baseless claim, as you can see at this link. Other media outlets under-reported the crowd as "tens of thousands." Even worse, the Washington Post claimed the Beck rally drew "thousands."

Also as per usual, the MSM felt the need to point out the Beck crowd was mostly white, highly ironic on the anniversary of the day MLK's most famous line from his most famous speech urged people to be judged by the content of their character, not the color of their skin. Apparently, the MSM doesn't think that applies to conservatives, Tea Party members, etc. Instead, the MSM prefers to be divisive.

Beck has made some controversial remarks himself (he called Obama a racist), and so has Sharpton (he calls all kinds of people racists), but on this day, I only heard one side preaching division, and that was Sharpton's side. Beck preached God, country, history, honor, and integrity. He was non-political. Sharpton preached anti-Beck and was entirely political.

I don't have a Beck transcript yet, so here's a sample video:

Contrast this with assorted remarks from the Sharpton people:

"Don't let anyone tell you that they have the right to take their country back. It's our country, too," said Avis Jones Deweaver, executive director of the National Council of Negro Women, making a reference to the Tea Party members attending the Beck rally at the Lincoln Memorial.

"We will reclaim the dream. It was ours from the beginning. A dream that we will make reality," she said at the Dunbar High School rally in northwest Washington, D.C.

"Schools all over America still were segregated and public accommodations housing was segregated and blacks in the South didn't have the right to vote. The march on Washington changed all of that. Glenn Beck's march will change nothing. But you can't blame Glenn Beck for his 'March on Washington' envy. Too bad he doesn't have a message to match the place or that is worthy of the march," said Rep. Eleanor Holmes Norton, D-D.C.

"They may have the mall," countered Sharpton, "but we have the message. They may have the platform but we have the dream."

"This is our day and we ain't giving it away," said Sharpton, who reminded the crowd that much civil rights progress has been seen in the last several decades but more needs to be made.

Sharpton warned conservative forces they'd face a fight in the upcoming elections, and called on people to turn out to vote this year as they did in 2008, when Obama was elected.

"We're coming out to fight and we're not going to let you turn back the clock," [Sharpton] said.

I honestly don't know what Sharpton is talking about when he says he's not going to let Beck (conservatives) "turn back the clock." I don't know any conservatives who want slavery reinstated, who aren't in favor of civil rights, who want Jim Crow reinstated, who don't want blacks to have the right to vote, who are against good schools for blacks, etc. Maybe there are a few, but these things definitely don't represent mainstream conservative thought, or mainstream Libertarian thought, or mainstream Tea Party thought. Conservatives, Libertarians, and Tea Partiers are FOR civil rights. The very heart of their platform is the notion that individual rights trump everything, even the government.

Al Sharpton doesn't have a monopoly on MLK's dream, and Beck certainly didn't hijack it, whatever that is supposed to mean. MLK's niece, Alveda King, spoke at Beck's rally, and said the following:

"My daddy, Rev. A.D. King, my granddaddy, Martin Luther King, Senior — we are a family of faith, hope and love. And that's why I'm here today," King said. "Glenn says there is one human race, I agree with him. We are not here to divide. I'm about unity. That's why I'm here, and I want to honor my uncle today."

There will be disagreements on political matters, big ones, but nobody is trying to hijack MLK's dream, turn back the clock, or whatever. If there are such people, they certainly are carrying 'Don't Tread On Me' flags, which represent individual liberty. There were lots of those at Beck's rally. I consider myself to be a fiscal conservative/libertarian, and Martin Luther King Jr. is one of my idols. The man was heroic, and gave everything for his dream, even his life. It wasn't easy for him to stand up in the segregated south back in his time. It was very dangerous, yet he did stand up, and changed the country for the better. When Beck spoke yesterday about moving forward together through the scars of the past, that is part of MLK's dream, even if Reverend Al doesn't want to hear it, even if Reverend Al wants to make MLK's dream his and nobody else's. Sorry, Reverend Al, that's not how it works.

But since this is a political blog, I will make one political statement of fact…Martin Luther King was a Republican.

Hijack that, Mr. Sharpton.

  • B

    Not a Beck fan. A bit of a demogogue, I think. For all my criticisms of Obama, he is not a racist or a Marxist and its irresponsible for a national poitical commentator to suggest otherwise. That's Olbermann-type stuff.

    Didn't pay much attention to the Washington rally. Didn't Beck bill it as non-political? Of course it was political. Oh well, as I said, I'm not a fan.

    As you observed, I noticed there was no mention of the size of Sharpton's crowd, so it must have pretty small. What an embarassment Sharpton is. Actually, he always been an embarassment. A race-hustler, pure and simple. Its how he makes a living.

  • sunklhammer

    If anyone is guilty of "hi-jacking" MLK's "dream," it would be race-baiters like Sharpton and Jesse Jackson.

    Imamo-bama not a racist or a marxist? Are you serious? Ever hear the saying, " if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck……..etc.? All his actions, not to mention things he's said in the past, like in his book, "Audacity of Hope," are evidence that he is both a racist and a marxist. Of course, to those who didn't/haven't paid much attention, he wouldn't seem to be.

    The Washington rally WASN'T a rally…..it was a gathering to restore honor to America. It WAS politicized, but not by Beck or anyone who attended…..but then, you weren't paying much attention, were you?

    When it comes to labeling the truth that Beck has been bringing to light ( no one yet has disproven the facts he's uncovered ) as "olberman-type stuff," then you're not only not paying much attention….you're also not doing much thinking, either.

  • Tbomb
  • Tory Bug

    Here's a video of the rally. http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/29/l_d426bbabb9f1a71be9a33676e1e27fe1.jpg

    I've been told that it was pretty apolitical. That it was more about asking Americans to turn to their values, their roots, but I haven't been able to watch any of it yet. (Virus this weekend, haven't been able to do much more than sleep from Thursday night until about noon today.) Judge for yourself.

    I've also heard that the Dunbar rally actually was much tamer than you seem to think, King. Again, I don't know, just read a FB post on it. The race-baiters were there, but they weren't a dominant voice; the overall tone was one of personal responsibility vs. blame 'whitey'. With obvious exceptions, and I know we all know who those speakers were. ;)

    I have a new bumper sticker, even though I'm not the bumper sticker type. "I don't believe the liberal media!" Sounds like it's spot on.

  • B

    If it makes any difference, I think BHO's "wealth redistribution" mentality certainly leans towards Marxism, but I would not go so far as to say his goal is to do away with capitalism, as a true Marxist would like.

    As far as him being a "racist," that term is generally reserved for a person who feels that one race is either superior – or inferior – to another. BHO is more like your typical liberal who believes that the government's job is to engage in social engineering based on race. That's a type of racism, I guess.

  • Tbomb

    The "restoring honor "part…is that in reference to the poor treatment of vets at Walter Reed during the Bush administration?…cause I know this was about military vets and their families.

  • Andrea

    Yes there were alot of people at Becks rally of hypocrisy.
    His word at the rally did not seem to match his hateful fear mongering remarks on TV which divide the country not bring it together. (perhaps for political reasons)
    Although I didn't hear everything he said at the rally but from people's comments seemed like it was full of alot of love and christianity of good will .. But his libertarian views do not coincide at all with any Christian church I know of.

    Frank Rich from NY times said it very well so I will cut and paste it here
    Frank Rich warns that the "Freedom and Liberty crowd" are unwittingly doing the secret bidding of private billionaires and the multi-billionaires long dissatisfied with the system of government that allowed them to prosper, a bidding that will hurt Tea Party constituents as much as anyone else in the Middle Class. These interests want no regulation, no taxes for business, no Social Security, no unemployment insurance, no public schools, no Medicare –ultimately, a society like the Gilded Age in which people, including children, worked 14-hour days under intolerable conditions for peasant wages. (Are you working harder and longer for less today?

  • B

    Nancy Pelosi should call for an investigation.

    Actually, this is more nonsense from Dems who cannot accept that the Tea Party is made up of ordinary citizens who are fed up with an unresponsive government that spends and spends and spends and spends and spends.

    I really am looking forward to November.

  • kmock

    ok, here we go… a rally of hypocrisy… ??
    when will you people wake up… im not tied to any group but Ill be damned if I say this is not a Christian nation aanymore. FU Mr. Pres…for saying its not!!! I am a free thinker and a God feering, small business owner, mother of two and happily married Christian woman. I believe in my freedowm as written by my forefathers (whom I will note are NONE of my ancestors…Im an offspring of a fourth generation LEGAL immigrant ! Thanks Great Gramps! ) OK, here is your wake up call… ever been to a farm? I have, growing up in the central midwest… there they lead the calves, cows and pigs to the feeding troughs..(ie welfare and governement handouts) and then, after the appropriate given time.. they lead them to the slaughter house.. oh yeah.. its under the 6th street bridge in Milwaukee…drive over some time and take in the smell… BTW … Mr Pres and his cronies… they are just handing out free feed right now… it tastes great…. but beware of the the bright and shiny!!! it will cut you like a knife!… therefore you better hit youre knees!!! I am just grateful that Mr. Beck has reminded us all that we answer to only One, and it is not you're glorious Mr. Obama.

  • Tory Bug

    How's that Kool-Aid? You are so making judgments without knowing of what you speak. Typical.

  • averagejoe5

    Seriously… the Frank Rich comment…come on

  • averagejoe5

    Spot on

  • sunklhammer

    Just a little reminder for those of you who haven't been paying attention…..and a list of facts for those of you who can't/won't face the truth:

    Does Obama's past matter?
    Read it slowly and carefully so you will be sure not to misunderstand:

    When Obama wrote a book and said he was mentored as a youth by Frank, (Frank Marshall Davis) an avowed Communist, people said it didn't matter.

    When it was discovered that his grandparents were strong socialists who sent Obama's mother to a socialist school where she was introduced to Frank Marshall Davis. He was later introduced to young Barrack Hussein Obama. People said it didn't matter.

    When people found out that Barrack Hussein Obama was enrolled as a Muslim child in school and his father and stepfather were both Muslims, people said it didn't matter.

    When he wrote in another book he authored, "I will stand with them (Muslims) should the political winds shift in an ugly direction," people said it didn't matter.

    When he admittedly, in one of his books, said he chose Marxist friends and professors in college– people said it didn't matter.

    When he traveled to Pakistan after college, on an unknown national passport, people said it didn't matter.

    When he sought the endorsement of the Marxist Party in 1996 as he ran for the Illinois Senate, people said it didn't matter.

    When he sat in a Chicago Church for twenty years and listened to a preacher spew hatred for America and preach black liberation theology ( marxism disguised as "religion" ), people said it didn't matter.

    When an independent Washington organization that tracks Senate voting records gave him the distinctive title as the "most liberal senator," people said it didn't matter.

    When the Palestinians in Gaza set up a fund raising telethon to raise money for his election campaign, people said it didn't matter.

    When his voting record supported gun control, people said it didn't matter.

    When he refused to disclose who donated money to his election campaign, as other candidates had done, people said it didn't matter.

    When he received endorsements from people like Louis Farrakhan and Muammar Kadaffi and Hugo Chavez, people said it didn't matter.

    When it was pointed out that he was a total newcomer and had absolutely no experience at anything except community organizing, people said it didn't matter.

    When he chose friends and acquaintances such as Bill Ayers and Bernadine Dorn, who were revolutionary radicals, people said it didn't matter.

    When his voting record in the Illinois senate and in the U.S. Senate came into question, people said it didn't matter.

    When he refused to wear a flag lapel pin, and did so only after a public outcry, people said it didn't matter.

    When people started treating him as a Messiah and children in schools were taught to sing his praises, people said it didn't matter.

    When he stood with his hands over his groin area for the playing of the National Anthem and Pledge of Allegiance, people said it didn't matter.

    When he surrounded himself in the White house with advisors who were pro-gun control, pro- abortion, pro-homosexual marriage and wanting to curtail freedom of speech to silence the opposition people said it didn't matter..

    When he aired his socialist views on abortion, homosexuality and a host of other issues, people said it didn't matter.

    When he said he favors sex education in Kindergarten, including homosexual indoctrination, people said it didn't matter.

    When his personal background was either scrubbed or hidden and nothing could be found about him, people said it didn't matter.

    When the place of his birth was called into question, and he refused to produce a birth certificate, people said it didn't matter.

    When he had an association in Chicago with Tony Rezco–a man of questionable character and who is now in prison and had helped Obama to a sweet deal on the purchase of his home– people said it didn't matter.

    When it became known that George Soros, a multi-billionaire Marxist, spent a ton of money to get him elected, people said it didn't matter.

    When he started appointing White House Czars that were radicals, revolutionaries, and even avowed Marxist/Communists, people said it didn't matter.

    When he stood before the Nation and told us that his intentions were to "fundamentally transform this Nation" into something else, people said it didn't matter.

    When it became known that he had trained ACORN workers in Chicago and served as an attorney for ACORN, people said it didn't matter.

    When he appointed cabinet members and several advisors who were tax cheats and socialists, people said it didn't matter.

    When he appointed a Science Czar, John Holdren, who believes in forced abortions, mass sterilizations and seizing babies from teen mothers, people said it didn't matter.

    When he appointed Cass Sunstein as Regulatory Czar who believes in "Explicit Consent," harvesting human organs without family consent, and allowing animals to be represented in court, while banning all hunting, people said it didn't matter.

    When he appointed Kevin Jennings, a homosexual, and organizer of a group called gay, lesbian, straight, education network as Safe School Czar and it became known that he had a history of bad advice to teenagers, people said it didn't matter.

    When he appointed Mark Lloyd, as Diversity Czar, who believes in curtailing free speech; taking from one and giving to another to spread the wealth; who supports Hugo Chavez, people said it didn't matter.

    When Valerie Jarrett…an avowed Socialist, was selected as Obama's Senior White House Advisor, people said it didn't matter.

    When Anita Dunn, White House Communications Director said Mao Tse Tung was her favorite philosopher– and the person she turned to most for inspiration, people said it didn't matter.

    When he appointed Carol Browner as Global Warming Czar, and her being a well known socialist working on Cap and trade as the nations largest tax, people said it didn't matter.

    When he appointed Van Jones, an ex-con and avowed Communist as Green Energy Czar, who since had to resign when this was made known, people said it didn't matter.

    When Tom Daschle, Obama's pick for health and human services secretary could not be confirmed, because he was a tax cheat, people said it didn't matter.

    When as President of the United States , he bowed to the King of Saudi Arabia , people said it didn't matter.

    When he traveled around the world criticizing America and never once talked of her greatness, people said it didn't matter.

    When his actions concerning the Middle-East seemed to support the Palestinians over Israel , our long time ally, people said it didn't matter.

    When he took American tax dollars to resettle thousands of Palestinians from Gaza to the United States, people said it didn't matter.

    When he upset the Europeans by removing plans for a missile defense system against the Russians, people said it didn't matter.

    When he played politics in Afghanistan by not sending troops early-on when the Field Commanders said they were necessary to win, people said it didn't matter.

    When he started spending us into a debt that was so big we could not pay it off, people said it didn't matter.

    When he took a huge spending bill under the guise of stimulus and used it to pay off organizations, unions, and individuals that got him elected, people said it didn't matter.

    When he took over insurance companies, car companies, banks, etc., people said it didn't matter.

    When he took away student loans from the banks and put it through the government, people said it didn't matter.

    When he designed plans to take over the health care system and put it under government control, people said it didn't matter.

    When he claimed he was a Christian during the election and tapes were later made public that showed Obama speaking to a Muslim group and 'stating' that he was raised a Muslim; was educated as a Muslim; and that he is still a Muslim– people said it didn't matter.

    When he set into motion a plan to take over the control of all energy in the United States through Cap and Trade, people said it didn't matter.

    When he finally completed his transformation of America into a Socialist State , people finally woke up— but it was too late. Add these up one by one and you get a phenomenal score that points to the fact that Barrack Hussein Obama is determined to turn America into a Marxist-Socialist society.

    All of the items in the preceding paragraphs can be documented very easily. Before you disavow any of this, if you're an honest person, do an internet search. The last paragraph alone is not yet cast in stone. You and I will write that paragraph.

    If you are an Obama Supporter don't be angry with me because I think Barry Soetero/ Obama is a marxist/socialist/alinskyite. Far too many facts support he is indeed a Socialist and the greatest threat to American freedom and liberty this country has ever faced.

  • Da King

    If you listen to Beck's comments, they were really not political. Palin's either, for that matter, from what I've heard. I haven't heard her entire speech, just a few minutes. But the speakers being non-political doesn't mean the crowd didn't bring it's t-shirts and signs. I don't know how you avoid that.

    Beck is an odd character. Sometimes I agree with him, and other times I think he goes too far off on a tangent. I didn't like him calling Obama a racist either. You're right, that's what the loons like Olby do. As for Obama being a marxist, Obama couldn't come out and admit he was a marxist and still win the presidential election, so I'll just say, Obama has strong marxist tendencies, both past and present.

    I totally agree with you on Sharpton.

  • Tom B

    King, I disagree with a point you made. ALL parties are not supporters of civil rights for ALL people. The GOP favors civil rights for some but not for ALL. The Republicans would indeed limit civil rights to a favored class should they regain ower. It would be a sad day for minorities, but it would reclaim their dream.

  • Da King

    Thanks for the link.

    I took my quotes from the Sharpton crowd right off the Reclaim The Dream website. If they wanted to feature those quotes on their home page, I figured that was the message they wanted to put out. I was glad to accomodate them.

    It's always wise not to believe the liberal media. I stopped believing them after their 1,000th falsehood or so. That was during the Carter administration.

  • Da King

    Last I heard, Beck and Bush were two entirely different people.

  • Da King

    So then, there really ARE people who take Frank Rich seriously ??? I didn't believe it until now.

  • Da King

    You can't just say that, Tom. You need to cite some evidence before I'll even consider it. The only possible evidence of it I've seen regards gay marriage, but…Obama is against it too.

  • Da King

    I already know from my investigations that at least 90% of what you are saying is true. A lot of this stuff I've written about over the last few years. I've never seen it all in one post before. Pretty compelling.

  • Tom B

    Well King, The GOP in Congress consistently blocks inclusive hate crime legislation. They in block oppose repeal of don't ask don't tell. In block they oppose a womans' rights in terms of abortion. The GOP has pandered themselves to an Evangelical minority. They do not understand the fundamental separation of Church and State. Every time I watch clips from last weekend's sideshow , I see Steve Martin in his "Leap of Faith" movie. It just motivates me to give more to HRC and People for the American Way. You are right, it's not about gay marriage. It is about not allowing a party trample rights of all people to restore themselves to their 1950s glory days at any cost.

  • Da King

    Hate crime legislation is frivolous feel-good legislation that has nothing at all to do with civil rights. All hate crimes are already crimes. If anything, hate crime legislation itself infringes on civil rights, because it sets up some groups as more privileged than others, and creates different punishment standards for the same crime. For instance, I don't really care if somebody hits me over the head with a bat because he wants to rob me, or whether he does it because of my skin color. In either case, I'm hit over the head with a bat. The guy has committed the same crime. We don't need special legislation to get inside the guy's head. We have trials and judges to determine the severity of crimes.

    There are two civil rights issues regarding abortion. The mother's right to privacy, and the unborn's right to life. Because they directly contradict each other, it's unfair to say the GOP, who favors the pro-life argument more, is any less for civil rights than the Democrats, who favor the pro-abortion side more.

    We have full separation of church and state, along with freedom of religion in this country. I see NO danger of the First Amendment being overturned in this area. I'm not an evangelical, but I don't see them as any constitutional threat, and they have the same free speech rights as others.

    What else ya got ? You haven't convince me of anything yet, other than you disagree with conservatives on social issues. That doesn't make them a threat to civil rights.

  • The Reverend

    "The very heart of their platform is the notion that individual rights trump everything, even the government."

    Except for Islamic Centers in Manhattan, Murfeesboro, California…..
    Except for blacks who want to sit at white-owned private lunch counters…..ask Rand.

    Please, King…..give it a rest. Conservatives have stoked the bigotry fire my entire lifetime and you're trying to tell us nothing is burning. Most conservatives are bigoted against gays, women exercising their right to choose, blacks hired affirmatively, and most recently, Muslims. Conservatives are Sarah's "real Americans." White, male, middle class….and bigoted.

    Anyone…..and I mean ANYONE…..who takes Glenn Beck and his cynical "I Have a Nightmare" speech, seriously……is not serious. Rubes, dupes, dumb-asses…..maybe…..but not serious.

  • One More Voice

    The Reverend –
    As a conservative small business owner in the plumbing industry, who has voted Republican all my life (sometimes holding my nose, but without much choice at times), I will tell you:
    We have hired blacks, Hispanics, and even a lesbian as a plumber. We hired an older white guy (who later caused a fire and didn't seem to care too much about it, so we had to fire him). We've had good employees and employees who have stolen from us of all races and types. As a capitalist, I don't effin' care what color you are or what God you worship, as long as you can turn a wrench, learn how to do a good job, show up on time, and make enough money for us to cover your wages and our overhead. We'd be stupid to turn away qualified employees based on something so stupid as race or religion or sexual orientation.

    It's also in our best interest to take good care of our good employees. If they make us money, we want them happy and we want them to stay.

    Capitalism, when not interfered with and pursued with the proper profit motive is the least biased, least racist, least offensive form of society.

    While not perfect, the more conservative party – which has been for some time the Republicans (as I hold my nose at times) – is based more on individual accountability and responsibility. These are the people we want to hire. These hired people will pay their own bills, not be a drag on society, and generate taxes rather than suck the lifeblood out of our economy.

    People see what they want to see. If you want to see racism, there is nothing I or anyone else can do to change your mind. Even if it's not there, you will put pieces together to make your point, like some people take Scripture out of context to make it say what they want.

    I must go now. My husband is out with our Hispanic employee, working hard, and my office clerk, who is sharp as a tack but has multiple health problems and has suffered from various mental anxiety disorders, will be here soon. I must go and deal with the uncertainty of our future caused by this administration, which is killing our business and causing us to possibly lay off the few employees we've managed to keep on.

  • walter

    WOW…..90% true……..not bad for sunkl

  • walter

    we pretty much know you didn't put that together sunkl (there were no references to faggots)

    how about your source?

  • Tom B

    King, I was not going to carry on this dialog but I do disagree with your statement that hate crimes legislation is frivolous and feel good. This is a serious matter. And yes, I believe special classes of people need to be called out in this type of legislation. It in no way infringes on civil rights. As a society we owe it to all of our society to look out for minorities sand voices that are less-than-popular. It is our duty. No where in this type of legislation is anything that will harm anyone's civil rights. I hate the argument if we do the right thing and protect a group's civil rights and it may infringe on my civil right then let's toss it out. The issue is to do the right thing.

    I actually think fiscal conservatism is a good thing. They serve as the balance to a more liberal fiscal policy. Maybe social conservatives can be looked at similarly. I just can't see it. I see angry people who use their voices to constantly try to maintain their status quo in a society where they are slipping into an abyss. Will they be the minority we will need to protect in 20 years? I suspect they will be.

    The bottom line is that the vast majority of conservatives and liberals, Democrats and Republicans are good people. We tend to characterize them by the fringe elements that come along for the ride since these fringes make good new stories and are more vocal. That's why we need to look past the news and look at the individual and what the/she stands for.

  • camackey

    There are three great commandments in the ministry of Jesus Christ.

    1. Love God with all your heart, soul and strength.
    2. Treat others as you wish to be treated.
    3. Be thy brother's keeper.

    Please tell me how Mr. Beck's daily television show honors any of the above commands. I have significant difficulty with someone saying America is walking in the dark, when the speaker is one of the many people who are throwing blankets on the light.

    I know that Mr. Beck is an opinion commentator not a journalist which allows him to bend facts to any point of view he wishes. In this way he is much like Mr. Olberman (another blanket thrower). The only news I watch is CNN. They just kind of hold the blanket in front of the light not completely obliterate it.

  • camackey

    Another thing I have to get off my chest. This outcry about the total amount of federal government debt. Now I have a metaphor for this debt. Lets assume that this debt is similiar to a mortgage. The present debt level as I understand from the Bankrupt America? TV ads is about 97% of our total economy (Income). Now to bring this to the mortgage analogy my present mortgage is about 135% of my household total income. This is not extremely conservative nor is it extremely risky. It is pretty much the norm. And if that is not too risky for an individual how can a 38% lower debt level be dangerous for the country.

    Now if there is something wrong in my story please explain what it is so that I can understand what the big problem is. Thanks

  • Tory Bug

    I'll put it to you this way. We've been borrowing money to pay our expenses from other countries since 1969. We've been paying interest on this money for well over 40 years, with no end in sight. And we're so far in debt right now that the US is starting to look like a poor credit risk. To find people willing to lend us money, we're having to pay higher interest rates. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8518438.stm

    The US has gone from being the guy who get a credit card with a 8% interest rate to the one who has to pay 28% interest if he wants a credit card. It's looking like, if we keep following this path, "By 2020, half of all income tax revenues will go toward paying interest on a $23 trillion national debt." http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/244324/interest-national-debt-may-consume-half-your-income-taxes-2020-brian-riedl I don't know how much interest you pay on your mortgage or what your mortgage interest rate is, but to reach that level of indebtedness, I would have to be paying $31,000 a year solely on interest for my mortgage. That's a payment of $2,583 without touching the principal on the loan.

    My house payment is more like $1,200, less than half that. This is a whole lot worse than just paying a mortgage.

  • The Reverend

    Umm…nope. Ain't true.

    camackey is correct.

    Here's the facts……the U.S. is such a "credit risk" that 10 year T-bills are yielding only 2.5%, and 30 year fixed mortgages are at their lowest level in American history, 4.375%.

    If there was even the slightest chance that the U.S. was nearing a point where it might be difficult to borrow money…..both of those indicators would have been rising by now. They're not….it's just the opposite. They have been declining over the last number of months.

    The bond vigilantes are fictitious…..for the forseeable future.

    Tory's 8% and 28% line is simply a throwaway. No basis in fact.

    camackey's mortgage comparison is the right one. King, and other conservatives, have been telling us that the debt to GDP ratio is going to destroy us. Ridiculous…..during WW2 it was 127%……we managed.

    A person who earns $60K per year can purchase a home and mortgage of $200,000 or better. 350% more than he earns each year. Does that sound like fiscally conservative percentages? No, but the payments can be made as long as the purchaser doesn't lose his job. Still a risk, right?

    Well, at 2.5%……the feds need to borrow as much money as they can…. stimulating direct job growth. Now is the exact time that a government SHOULD borrow money to invest into the national economy.

    I realize that facts are boring and that making stuff up is, you know, far more exciting.

    I encourage folks to be less excited and more knowledgeable.

  • Tory Bug

    "Tory's 8% and 28% line is simply a throwaway. No basis in fact. "

    Lol, I actually pulled those numbers from reality, thank you, silly. Eight percent is my current rate on my card, 18% was one of those throw-away offers I got in the mail. My husband and I have lotsa fun reading those, but it's actually pretty sad that there will be some desperate enough to get that card.

    No reply on my comparing the interest rates on our deficit to the GDP? That's a major eye-opener, if you ask me. Now, I realize that looking at facts as presented in a form you can understand is, well, uninteresting, at best, but I would encourage you to think about this country's projected income-debt ratio. So, put on your big-boy undies and give it a whirl.

  • barackem

    The old press is hard at it again trying to 'educate' the public about Obama's religious and political leanings. They again assume that the problem is an ignorant, small minded populace while ignoring this list and so much more. My own moment of clarity on Obama came a little more than a year ago after Brazilian president Lula made the comment that the world's problems were due to white men with blue eyes. It shook me to my core that a world leader could still look at the world in those terms. It wasn't more than a week later at the G20 Summit when Obama acted like a groupie seeing his favorite rock star for the first time while telling Lula he was "his man", tellling others that he "loves this guy" and proclaiming that Lula was " the most popular politician in the world". It was at that point that it became clear that Obama hadn't really evolved from his Marxist roots.

    It is funny that the tea party has been smeared as a racist group by the left and arrogantly dismissed by the old press. When trying to figure out where the lost support for Obama resides, it is probably largely in the tea party. They aren't the hard core, committed GOP who would vote for any GOP candidate every election. They don't like or trust any blow hard politicians whether Dems or the GOP. And they couldn't care less about race or ethnicity. They are traditional middle America who are proud of their country and proud of the freedom that people from around the world risk their lives to find. It is heartbreaking to see so many who were lucky enough to be born in this country so ready to attack it and fundamentally transform it.

    I think MLK would have swelled with pride for his niece and the crowd who showed up on Saturday. We are one human race with one shared blood. The 'no peace' crowd has to ask themselves how many more generations of black children they are willing to keep out of the mainstream, how many more generations of black kids they are willing to let die in the streets for the sake of bigger government programs that trap kids with racial identity politics and upside down reward systems.

  • walter

    never mind….I found it……..

    http://niggermania.net/forum/showthread.php?21891-The-Fundamental-Transformation-of-America

    what's that old saying……birds of a feather flock together

  • larry d.

    Camackey's analogy assumes that all the money in the country belongs to the government. It's an apples and oranges argument that doesn't work, at all.

    Say someone has a mortgage on which they pay $1,000 a month, while they bring in $5,000 per month. The mortgage would take up one-fifth of income. For the nation, paying one-fifth of GDP on debt would pretty much use up all tax revenue as it currently stands, maybe more. How will the country pay for anything else over and above debt payments? They'll have to double taxes to keep up current services. Then once taxes double, people start losing jobs, etc., etc.

  • B

    I disagreed with Rand's comment about his view of individual rights, although I understood his analysis.

    I can tell by your comment that you have his analysis upside-down and backward.

  • barackem

    T-bills are the investment of last resort when there is uncertainty in the market. We will remain in a very uncertain market for years to come with the thousands of pages of regulations that will turn into tens or hundreds of thousands of pages of policy as Obamacare and financial regulation are rolled out. Add the additional uncertainty of coming tax increases, unresolved energy policies, unresolved consequences of a government that has inserted itself into almost every major market and industry in this country, and it should be obvious why business sits on huge amounts of capital rather than investing in one way or another. None of that even takes into account possibly the biggest factor we need to deal with to turn the economy around. Get rid of those who are demonizing business and creating a very hostile business climate.

    People don't buy houses they can afford if they believe there is a good chance that house prices will go down.

  • barackem

    Da King, someone who kills you for the five bucks in your pocket is just engaged in social justice. It probably shouldn't even be a crime.

  • walter

    "When he traveled to Pakistan after college, on an unknown national passport, people said it didn't matter."

    what exactly is an unknown national passport?

  • walter

    90% is a little unrealistic here……..I mean we are talking about something sunkl brought to the table

    http://open.salon.com/blog/robert_kelley/2010/01/07/the_fundamental_transformation_of_america_with_commentary

  • averagejoe5

    You've never listened to his show have you Cam. You are using lib talking points that you heard somewhere.
    Also where does it say #3? You may be taking that out of context. It says to help the poor by feeding them and warns against providing all of their needs. To be they brothers keeper is not a good thing because it ruins his life. Also remember the story of "give a guy a fish…."

  • averagejoe5

    Barackem spot on

    When you are paying your mortgage are you adding to the principle evey year or subtracting from the principle. Subtracting hopefully…right because your goal is to pay it off? We are adding to the principle every year and it seems the govts go; is to make the interest payments. These are unpaid for programs that grow over time. The mortgage comparison doesn't work here.
    We are not an industrial giant anymore. The govt is allowing, actually forcing these big money companies out of the country by creating an atmosphere where the companies cant earn enough profit to grow and expand. This is why they are going to emerging markets like Asia, Africa etc.

  • The Irreverend

    This post is disengenuous even for you Wally. This essay is all over the net in many different blogs and newsgroups. You just had to go out of your way to find the most inflammatory post possible.

    Typical troll behavior.

  • sunklhammer

    No reference needed, wally-poo, for what is common knowledge for those who have been paying attention….and really care about the truth. Besides, everyone here already knows that fagots are smarter than you or any of your maggoty left-wing cadre. And since you're too fuc*ing stupid ( by intention ) to figure it out yourself, the reference is to what nation issued the passport. We know that it wasn't a US passport.

    Smackhead: you don't have a friggin' clue about the teachings of Jesus….which is also the case on every other subject you blather about. The only ones trying to throw blankets on the truth are racists and bigoted assholes like you.

    revrum: proof conclusive that you didn't and don't listen to anything Beck or any other conservative says, prefering to listen to the sound of the bullshit swirling around inside your own head.

    Narcissistic asshole.

  • walter

    why would it be disengenuous? Sunkl is a 60 year old uneducated homophobic racist who calls people faggots and Obama "Obamy".

    I would think that website and sunkl would be a perfect fit

  • walter

    a 60 year old uneducated homophobic racist who calls people faggots, calls Obama "Obamy", calls people assholes(because it's fun)…..there's someone who actually knows the teachings of Jesus

  • barackem

    camackey, the gross domestic product isn't the government's income. That is a measurement of economic activity in the country. Federal income is about 2 trillion dollars a year. Our debt is about the same as the GDP, about 14 trillion.

    The government issues treasury bills (short term), treasury notes (medium term), and treasury bonds (long term) to pay for that debt. They auction those off every day. Depending on how many people want to buy the debt, interest rates will go up or down. If few people want to buy the debt, the government has to offer higher interest rates to attract buyers. Right now, since the economy is very uncertain, people are lining up to buy treasuries backed by the US government. Also, the fed is acting as a backstop, also purchasing debt to ensure that interest rates stay low. With so much of the money supply going into one of the few safe havens available, interest on that debt is at record lows. Even though people aren't getting a good return on their investment, at least they aren't losing money. It is also allowing the government to pay it's 'mortgage' because rates are so low.

    Well, actually, it isn't able to pay the mortgage. We are going deeper and deeper into debt as a nation. Last year we spent about 3.6 trillion dollars even though we only took in 1.8 trillion. We added about 1.8 trillion dollars onto our mortgage and will add another trillion and a half next year. Obama's budget calls for an additional 10-15 trillion in debt in the next 10 years.

    Right now, since we are paying such low interest on our debt, interest on the debt is only a couple hundred billion. But we are in extremely unusual times. Historically, debt averages about 6-8 percent. At times it has run above 15 %. If the economy gets so bad that people run out of money or try to hide it or convert to gold or other sources that they might believe more secure if it seems like the government is going bankrupt, rates will go to extreme heights we have never seen before to attract buyers. If that begins to happen, and the government can't sell enough debt or, to avoid a bankruptcy scenerio, it might instead monetize the debt. In other words, just print enough money to cover it's debt and create inflation so that 20 trillion or 50 trillion or 100 trillion seems like chump change. In that case, interest rates also go through the roof but it becomes meaningless in a country where the money might be worth only half one day than it was the day before, half again the next day, etc.

    The best that can be hoped for is that we stay within historical norms. If people go back to normal behaviors and we eliminate the hostile business climate, we have a shot. If interest rates go to 10% the interest on 14 trillion would be 1.4 trillion a year. If interest rates level out at 5% the interest on 14 trillion would be 700 billion per year.

    The problem is that we are adding debt each year. We will be above 25 trillion this decade. If interest rates go to 10% (well within reasonable possibility and far below past rates) interest on our debt will be 2.5 trillion per year. At 8%, interest would be 2 trillion dollars per year. Federal revenues don't even reach that amount. It is very possible by the end of this decade that we won't even collect enough in taxes and all other revenue combined to just pay the interest on our debt. There would be money for nothing, absolutely nothing. No government employees, no military, no welfare programs, nothing. At least nothing that we pay for. At that point our entire government would depend on borrowed money.

    So that is what it comes down to. If we keep spending, it is a roll of the dice that we will be able to maneuver the economy long term. It will require very low, stable interest rates, a very stable economy with low or no inflation, low or no deflation, that grows enough jobs to get us back to full employment. We have to do all of this with the backdrop of high unemployment with little hiring, increased taxation, the uncertainty of thousands of pages of new regulations to be implemented over many years, the costs and uncertainty of a huge new health care entitlement that has to be implemented over several years, the uncertainty of government intervention in a large segment of our economy, the uncertainty of impending energy regulations, etc. and a government that dismisses all of these concerns and more. All at the same time the baby boomers are retiring.

    Or we can stop this insanity, cut our losses, and give the economy back to the private sector where it belongs, put capital to work efficiently, bring government costs under control, and get people back to work. It is not too late. Our debt is still manageable, even if difficult. If we keep going it is a total crapshoot, a totally unnecesary gamble with our kids future by clueless fools who have never even run a pop stand.

  • sunklhammer

    For all my faults, asshole, I know more about the teachings of Jesus than you ever will. That's why I can be who I am, and say what I say, and you don't have even an inkling….with all your vaunted education….what I just wrote means. Talk about uneducated. All you are is an educated idiot.

    http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/08/let_me_translate_we_dont_belie.html

    http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2010/08/027120.php

  • sunklhammer

    For all my faults, asshole, I know more about the teachings of Jesus than you ever will. That's why I can be who I am, and say what I say, and you don't have even an inkling….with all your vaunted education….what I just wrote means. Talk about uneducated. All you are is an educated idiot….just the way your master wants you.

    http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/08/let_me_translate_we_dont_belie.html

    http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2010/08/027120.php

  • larry d.

    Couldn't find anything filthy about Mexicans, walt? I'm sad to see that you're spreading your wings into other areas of nasty bigotry.

  • walter

    what would Jesus do?

    of course…..call the person an asshole and then link to Powerline blog

    that about right?

  • camackey

    @ sunklhammer

    If you know so much much about the teachings of Jesus please explain how 1 Corinthians chapter 3 works into the conservative christian narrative of Christ. Please explain how John 3:16 works into the conservative christian narrative of Christ. Lastly I know your preferred technique to change the subject when you have no answer is to become enraged…kinda like the townhall meetings last summer.

    I have not heard Beck say anything that is not distorted by his viewpoint. That is what I mean by saying he is throwing a blanket on the light. Truth is the light and the truth shall set you free. I guess you and I look at the teachings of Christ from two different points of view. My point is that of inclusion and your view point is that of exclusion.

  • camackey

    @ averagejoe

    Thanks for the comment. #3 is from the parable of the good Samaritan. I beleive the parable ends with Jesus telling us to go do the same as the Samaritan. The church I go to use this story to show how we should care for those in need, not those in need that are doing x,y and z to get our support.

    I have listened to Beck for about as long as I have listened to Olberman. I have difficulty listening either end of the spectrum. That is the reason I listen to CNN. To me they have the least bias one way or the other of the news outlets. I kind of like to hear the facts and then connect the dots to come up with my own opinion of the subject, I don't want my opinion given to me.

    I agree that aid should be given until people are on thier feet, but in some situations (today) that aid may need to be longer than at other times (1999).

  • walter

    why would you be sad……it gives you something else to lie about

  • Da King

    Maybe a misdemeanor, lol.

  • Da King

    Earth to Reverend Hatemonger,

    I suggest you check out the Libertarian website (lp.com) sometime. You might be a tad less clueless if you did.

    - Nobody is denying Muslims the RIGHT to build the GZ mosque. You're either confused or lying intentionally. People are protesting against it, as is their right under the First Amendment.

    - The ones denying blacks the right to sit at lunch counters were southern Democrats. The Republicans were the anti-slavery party, remember ? They were the ones on the right side of history.

    - What about the right to life of unborn babies ? Is that completely meaningless to you, Mr. Rights ?

    - affirmative action is a discriminatory policy that DENIES people rights or gives other people more rights based on the color of their skins. It's clearly unconstitutional. Thanks for mentioning it.

  • Da King

    If a black person hits a white person over the head with a bat, that's a crime.
    If a white person hits a black person over the head with a bat, that's a crime AND a hate crime.

    Can't go along with that. Everybody should have EQUAL protection under the law, as the Constitution states. No exceptions, no special classes of people, etc.

    I also think fiscal conservatism is a good thing. Too bad neither Democrats nor Republicans practice it.

    Good point about the fringe elements making for good news stories. Too often fringe statements are made and then partisans use them to marginalize the entirety of their opposition. For instance, my demented blogger counterpart, The Reverend, just blamed a Sarah Palin tweet for an attack on a Murfreesboro, Tenn. mosque. Even worse, I think he really believes himself.

  • Da King

    Right on, barackem.

    Further, the Reverend's comparison between WWII and now is ludicrous, like comparing apples and oranges. Following WWII, the U.S. was sitting on top of the world, almost the sole economic powerhouse. Everyone else was devastated from the war or hadn't yet emerged, while our factories were all geared up and ready to go. It was easy to expand and pay off the debt then. Now, we are in a competitive world, or flat world, as Thomas Friedman called it. We aren't the only game in town. We're competing with everyone else, and we're behaving extremely irresponsibly. I guess one comfort is, Europe is much worse off. It's pretty ironic that liberals want to emulate Europe's quasi-socialist policies. Talk about courting failure.

  • Da King

    camackey,
    Are you sure you selected the correct bible passages ?

    From 1 Corinthians Chapter 3:

    "Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour."

    Sounds like the Lord was saying we should work for our money, not sit on the couch and wait for the welfare check.

    And how does John 3:16 not fit into the conservative christian narrative ? You lost me there too:

    "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life"

    I know the Reverend would object to this, but conservative christians ??? Don't think so.

  • sunklhammer

    wally-poo, thanks for proving the point that you don't know diddly squat about Jesus. And I don't recall making the claim that I was Jesus, or that because I have put my faith in Him and His Promise, I am therefore perfect. That's what you marxists think you are, since marxists are about as anti-God as anyone can get.

  • sunklhammer

    Smackey, you're so full of ignorant BS regarding the scriptures that, if I were you, I would be ashamed to expose myself so blatently.

    The message of Salvation is one inclusiveness, but only to those who meet the conditions Jesus set. At the same time, it's exclusive of those who do not. The difference between my take on the teachings of Jesus and yours is that I am not inclusive when it comes to evil. You are.

    Jesus said that HE was the Light, and that He was the Truth (not "a" truth ). Jesus said that when we knew the Truth, the truth would set us free. Beck is just a messenger of the truth…..show me one piece of information that he has presented that is not the truth. The fact that the left and assholes like you are so intent in shutting down Beck, and Fox, and all other conservative voices….the fact that you have to resort to the marxist/alinskyite tactics of mocking, ridicule, ad homonim and personal attacks is a great indication that the leftists are terrified of what they see happening, and can see what's coming at them in November.

  • Tbomb
  • Tbomb

    This is why those who listen to Beck should feel humiliated:
    http://motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2010/08/glenn-becks-melodrama

  • sunklhammer

    Stinky: your link (and your attitude ) are exactly what I was talking about when it comes to the fear and hate that the left has for the right…and those who champion and defend the values of the right.

    It's the leftist scumbags…the maggots of hate…who either don't listen to what Beck, et al, are actually saying, who should be humiliated by their intolerance and hate for those who disagree with them. They are the ones who will be humiliated this November…who will stand there with a stunned, dumb-fuck look on their faces, as the right takes back control of at least the House….and very likely the Senate….and your messiah is reduced to a blithering, ineffective and worthless piece of crap.

    I sure hope this all comes down to a shooting war between left and right, in spite of what Beck is promoting. It's maggots like you that I will be specifically looking for.

  • walter

    well, it looks like we can add fucking lunatic to racist and homophobic

    just sayin'

  • sunklhammer

    Uh, fagot, I don't have any problem with homosexuals….unless they're trying to shove their lifestyle on to the rest of the country, and demanding that the heterosexual community ( which outnumbers the homosexual community by 10-1 or better ) accept their sexual preferences as being normal and healthy alternatives.

    I have a wife who is 100% ethnic Chinese, so your accusation of racist, as it's applied to me, is total bullshit.

    Washington, Jefferson, Adams, Madison, Franklin, and the rest of the Founders were also considered fucking lunatics by about one-third of the colonial population, too. That one-third population also not only sided with the British, but gave them aide and comfort. Another one-third of the colonial population sat on their thumbs and didn't take sides…preferring to see who the victor would be, so they could throw in with them.

    I consider being called a fucking lunatic by a hate maggot like you to be a mark of honor.

  • Tbomb

    You, Sunkl, to the neocons, are a gift wrapped , malleable moron.

  • http://SukiProject.Blogspot.Com John Tagliaferro

    Video of the Sharpton procession to the Mall, I had to divide it into two clips. It took them almost one-half hour to pass Capital Grille on 6th & Penn. NW.

  • Da King

    Thanks for the video, John. That was the first I've seen. Did you film that yourself ?

  • The Reverend

    Businesses are sitting on cash because without enough customers right now….it would be kind of foolish for them to expand. "Uncertainty" is a cop-out political excuse without any basis in fact.

  • The Reverend

    How about Germany? Worse off?

  • The Reverend

    "maggots of hate"……funny.

  • roysoldboy

    I really get a kick out of that steaming pile of Pelosi that you posted as something real. Pure Pelosi, and nothing else.

  • roysoldboy

    Golly thanks, Walter. I have wondered and wondered where that thing originated but am not sure you really found anything more than a reproduction. Thanks for all the hard work anyway.

  • roysoldboy

    Wow it gets better and better. From Niggermania to Salon we go.

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