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The Latest Obama Talking Points

by Da King on February 2, 2010

in budget,economics,federal spending,Uncategorized,White House administration

In his friday meeting with House Republicans, President Obama made the following statement:

"The fact of the matter is, is that when we came into office, the deficit was $1.3 trillion. $1.3 trillion. So — so when you say that suddenly I've got a monthly budget that is higher than the annual — or a monthly deficit that's higher than the annual deficit left by Republicans, that's factually just not true, and you know it's not true. And what is true is that we came in already with a $1.3 trillion deficit before I had passed any law. What is true is, we came in with $8 trillion worth of debt over the next decade. It had nothing to do with anything that we had done. It had to do with the fact that in 2000, when there was a budget surplus of $200 billion, you had a Republican administration and a Republican Congress, and we had two tax cuts that weren't paid for, you had a prescription drug plan — the biggest entitlement plan, by the way, in several decades — that was passed, without it being paid for, you had two wars that were done through supplementals, and then you had $3 trillion projected because of the lost revenue of this recession. That's $8 trillion. Now, we increased it by $1 trillion because of the spending that we had to make on the stimulus.

Democrats are absolutely giddy with excitement over the above Obama claims. They think Obama the GOP slayer has set the record straight. I am, however, more than happy to fact-check the President's claims here, because a lot of them are either wrong or misleading.

Let's start with that alleged $200 billion surplus Clinton left in 2000.

It never happened. I know most of you probably think it did happen, but it didn't. It was a budgetary trick, a gimmick. Clinton did come close to balancing the budget with his Republican Congress, but there was never a surplus. I addressed this misconception in a previous post. The federal debt actually increased by $17.9 billion in 2000. That's a DEFICIT, not a surplus.

Next, let's address the unbelievably inane Democratic talking point that the Clinton administration left us on a path for budget surpluses for the next decade, which Bush came along and ruined single-handedly.

Those imaginary surpluses of 2000 were gone the very next year, in 2001. Remember, fiscal year 2001 budgeting was done by the Clinton administration and Clinton's Republican Congress (the federal government's fiscal year runs from October 1st to September 30th). When Bush entered office, he inherited a recession too, mostly due to the dot-com bust, later worsened by the after-effects of 9/11. Neither of those events were caused by Bush. There were never going to be any ten-year surpluses. Reality intervened. All Democrats, including Obama, tell us now that deficit spending is peachy-keen and necessary to fix a bad economy, and Bush did his part by enacting his 2001 tax cuts. Somehow, Democrats didn't agree so much then as they do now. Here's how the NY Times described it in May, 2001:

Congress gave final approval today to the biggest tax cut in a generation, voting to reduce all income tax rates over the next five years and to give the weakened economy a quick jolt by sending rebates to taxpayers this summer.

Following 9/11, we had the Afghanistan war, which EVERY SINGLE DEMOCRAT IN THE SENATE VOTED FOR. The Afghanistan AUMF passed the Senate by a vote of 98-0. That spending came from EVERYONE, not just Bush. Later, came the Iraq AUMF. Democrats in the Senate SUPPORTED that war, by a margin of 29-21. The Senate at that time consisted of 49 Republicans, 50 Democrats, and 1 Independent. It was not controlled by the Republicans. Democrats voted FOR the spending for both wars.

Now, let's move on to the Bush era deficits. This is pretty interesting too.

2002 deficit: $157.8 billion
2003 deficit: $377.6 billion
2004 deficit: $412.7 billion
2005 deficit: $318.3 billion
2006 deficit: $248.2 billion
2007 deficit: $160.7 billion
2008 deficit: $460 billion
2009 deficit: $1.42 trillion

I think we have to look back on those Bush deficits, with the exception of 2009, as the good old days, relatively speaking, no ? It even looks like Bush was heading for a balanced budget, with the deficits dropping in 2005, 2006, and 2007 (and with two wars going, two Bush tax cuts, and Medicare Part D implemented, no less), until the housing sector imploded. Now we have $1 trillion+ deficits projected as far as the eye can see. And if I argued like liberals do, I'd point out that the two largest Bush-era deficits came after the Democrats took over singular command of Congress, and that those two deficits under Democratic leadership were far greater than the previous six years of Bush deficits combined. I might even point out that Barack Obama was in the Senate then, and voted for every budget and spending proposal.

The CBO tells us why the deficit increased so much from 2008 to 2009. From Wikipedia:

The CBO reported in October 2009 reasons for the difference between the 2008 and 2009 deficits, which were approximately $460 billion and $1,410 billion, respectively. Key categories of changes included: tax receipt declines of $320 billion due to the effects of the recession and another $100 billion due to tax cuts in the stimulus bill (the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act or ARRA); $245 billion for the Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP) and other bailout efforts; $100 billion in additional spending for ARRA; and another $185 billion due to increases in primary budget categories such as Medicare, Medicaid, unemployment insurance, Social Security, and Defense.

You can't blame any politician for revenue drops during the recession, although Obama tried to in his statement that kicked off this post, by acting like he inherited a $3 trillion revenue drop from Bush. Let's look at how much revenue was lost before Obama stepped into the White House. Here are the revenue numbers:

FY2007 – $2.568 trillion federal revenue.
FY2008 – $2.524 trillion federal revenue.
FY2009 – $2.105 trillion federal revenue.

From this, we see that revenue peaked at $2.568 trillion before the recession. Then it dropped by $24 billion in 2008 and $419 billion in 2009. That totals $443 billion that you could say was lost prior to Obama stepping into the White House……BUT….Obama passed $288 billion in tax cuts in 2009 as part of his stimulus package, so he's responsible for part of that lost revenue. A good deal of it, actually. I don't see $3 trillion in lost revenue that Obama "inherited" here, do you ? I see more like $155 billion,. Plus, 2008 and 2009 were deflationary years. If I adjusted for inflation, that loss would be even less. As for projecting revenue drops into the future to explain things away, our double-talking President would be well-served to remember whose job it is to address that situation. It's HIS job, along with Congress. So liberals can understand how ridiculous Obama's claim is, imagine if President Bush had said the dot-com bust and 9/11 recession was going to cause him to run up $3 trillion in debt 10 years later. Liberals would have made a laughingstock of Bush if he had said something so stupid, and rightfully so. Obama's claim of inheriting $3 trillion in lost revenue is nothing more than Obama claiming he's not up to doing his job.

Let's look at the deficit increases the politicians could control:

Who implemented the stimulus tax cuts ? Obama and the Democrats.
Who implemented TARP ? Bush, Republicans, and DEMOCRATS. Obama voted FOR it. A greater percentage of Democrats voted for TARP than did Republicans.
The increases in Medicare, Medicaid, unemployment insurance, Social Security, and defense were supported by both parties, including Obama.

I guess Obama thinks he "inherited" deficits that he and his party actively voted FOR. That makes him a dishonest jerk, a synonym for "politician."

Last, let's look at Obama's incredible declaration that $8 trillion in deficits over the next decade are not his responsibility. He claims he inherited those as well, and also claims he only added $1 trillion to the deficit.

Do I even really need to address this fantastic bit of nonsense ? Obama IS THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. He spent tons of money to get the job. His party CONTROLS BOTH HOUSES OF CONGRESS. They can do whatever they want to do, and that includes DEFICIT REDUCTION. I'm sure they'lll get no resistance on that front from Republicans, who've been screaming about deficits from the rafters all year long. Let's look how the federal spending has increased:

FY2002 – $2.011 trillion (first Bush/GOP budget)
FY2007 – $2.729 trillion (last GOP Congressional budget)
FY2008 – $2.983 trillion (Democrat Congressional budget)
FY2009 – $3.518 trillion (Democrat Congressional budget)
FY2010 – $3.83 trillion (Democrat Congressional budget)

What this shows us is that in six years, the GOP-led (or neutral in the Senate) Congress increased spending by about $870 billion in six years (2002-2007). When the Democrats took over Congress, they increased spending by $900 billion in only THREE YEARS (2008-2010). The Democrats are increasing spending over twice as fast as the GOP did, and Obama voted in FAVOR of every one of those budgets. Obama has fixed spending at a rate nearly $1 trillion per year higher going forward than it was only two short years ago, and then he wants to pretend it's someone else's fault. Un-real.

FINDING – Obama is engaging in full-fledged partisan spin. He doesn't even take responsibility for his own votes in the Senate that increased the deficits he now claims he "inherited." He doesn't take responsibility for anything his party voted for during the Bush era. He doesn't take responsibility for his own massive spending increases. All he is admitting to is basically the $862 billion stimulus package, plus a couple other things.

Who does this guy think he's fooling ??? Besides liberals, that is. They LOVE his misdirection. The rest of us know better.

Note to liberals – This was NOT a defense of the Bush administration. Y'all always get confused about that. I was against the Bush deficits, the Iraq War, and the unfunded Medicare Part D too. I don't want to hear any more silly misdirection comments here arguing as if I supported all those things. This was merely a fleshing out of the Democratic and Obaman involvement in things, to shine a little light on the twisting of history that invariably occurs. Our current Prez is a world-class twister. I'm sorry you have to hear that, but unfortunately, it's true. I wish it wasn't.

Update – I just realized I left something important out about Obama's distortions. When Obama said he inherited a $1.3 trillion deficit when he walked in the door in 2009, that included the Bush-era $700 billion TARP spending (that Obama and the Dems voted FOR). What Obama failed to include was that about $500 billion of TARP has been repaid by the banks, reducing the deficit Obama claims he "inherited" to $800 billion. Yet, the 2009 deficit was over $1.4 trillion. Obama nearly doubled the 2009 deficiit, and is raising it even more next year. The man seems incapable of honesty.

  • larry d.
  • Da King

    Yessirree.

    "I don't take a dime of their [lobbyist] money, and when I am president, they won't find a job in my White House." – Barack Obama

    Every word false.

  • Da King

    Here's another one, larry.

    "This isn't how responsible families do their budgets. When times are tough, you tighten your belts. You don't go buying a boat when you can barely pay your mortgage. You don't blow a bunch of cash in Vegas when you're trying to save for college." – Barack Obama, yesterday.

    Too bad The One doesn't apply these responsible principles to his own government. The word "blowhard" comes to mind.

  • larry d.

    I thought one of the goals of the stimulus to get folks out spending some money? Now it's save for college? The man is a chameleon with no core identity, beliefs or plan.

  • Da King

    He's all over the place, for sure. Very confused, but maybe there's a silver lining there. Now that Obama is in management for the first time in his life, maybe he is finally realizing those left-wing principles he learned in college don't work in the real world.

    Maybe…..or maybe I'm just bitterly clinging to, um,..hope ?

  • averagejoe5

    He should have at least had some management experience before he was hired. He wouldn't have made it through the 2nd interview at Burger King, even with a degree.

  • g-rub

    Facts don't matter to lefty libs, it's all about feelings. 90% of them take their own propaganda at face value and never question it. If it fits their emotional needs, it's now reality.

  • Macmon

    King,

    The amounts that you have shown for deficits are for budget deficits not total government deficits. You need to remember that Bush never put the money for the wars in the budget. They went in as seperate appropriations. Similiar to the Clinton surplus. The Clinton Surplus was as much a true surplus as the Bush deficit reductions.

    If I have to deficit spending I'd rather have the money go to the "average American" instead of Corporate America.

  • Dave

    Good stuff King.

    Eye-opening too.

  • The Reverend

    No, it's not good stuff, Dave. It's combobulated disinformation.

    Expanding on what Macmon said….

    King's point one was either written foolishly or purposely….whatever…

    "The federal debt actually increased by $17.9 billion in 2000. That's a DEFICIT, not a surplus."

    Federal debt continued to rise because of entitlement obligations, yes….but Clinton's BUDGET (not national debt) ran a small surplus. Today's top ABJ headline story has the chart to demonstrate the truth of what I'm saying. Pay attention larry……checkmate on point number one.

    Point two….

    "When Bush entered office, he inherited a recession too, mostly due to the dot-com bust, later worsened by the after-effects of 9/11. Neither of those events were caused by Bush. There were never going to be any ten-year surpluses. Reality intervened. All Democrats, including Obama, tell us now that deficit spending is peachy-keen and necessary to fix a bad economy, and Bush did his part by enacting his 2001 tax cuts."

    Immediately, King gives Bush a pass….."neither of those events were caused by Bush." Conservatives, like King, insist that when GOP presidents are presiding, they can't be held accountable for the "events" that take place…..and therefore, shouldn't be held accountable for any economic f-ups that follow. But with Democrats…..it's just the opposite.

    Then King makes an unsupported assertion. "There was never going to be any ten-year surpluses." More disinformation. One of the Serious reasons given for such deep and historic tax rate cuts in 2001 was because, according to Greenspan, certainly no liberal, who said that if we didn't give wealthy Americans billions of dollars worth of tax cuts…..the government would be forced into the situation, with the projected surpluses, where they would have to buy equities with the surpluses. I didn't say it…..one of the conservative masterminds of the economic collapse said it…..as he defended the assault by Bush and Co. on the Treasury.

    King goes on in point 2 to blame Democrats for voting for Afghanistan. Problem is…..Democrats weren't voting for Bush to fund wars off budget with supplementals. That's what Bush did, continued to do, making it look like his yearly budget deficits were smaller. Slick and deceptive……and King bought into it.

    Point 3 is a continuation of the error of point 2. Those yearly Bush deficits do not include the supplemental war costs. Again, deceptive.

    Point 4….."imagine if President Bush had said the dot-com bust and 9/11 recession was going to cause him to run up $3 trillion in debt 10 years later."

    First….the irony here is that is exactly what King said. King said Bush can't be blamed for the very mild recession he inherited and he can't be blamed for the cost of 9-11 and it's aftermath. Who should we blame then? Thus far, conservatives have blamed Clinton.

    Bush ran up more than $3T in national debt during his tenure. He doubled it from about $4T to $8 T. Those are the facts. Bush policies, or lack of them, led to the collapse of the economy, which in turn led to $700B for Banksters and a radically collapsing revenue stream from taxes as jobs were shed at the rate of 700,000 per month. Which in turn led to the necessity of reinforcing the safety net for those losing jobs, health care, etc. That reinforcement cost, rightfully, is on Bush. The collapse was UNDERWAY when Obama took office.

    In the second half of point 4, King blames Obama for cutting taxes because it added to the deficit. Yet the deep Bush tax cuts of 2001 when tax RATES were lowered, and the egregiously foolish 2003 deep tax cuts on capital gains…..passed by Cheney's tie breaking vote using RECONCILIATION……..cut hundreds of billions off of tax revenues.

    Point 5 tries to place blame on congressional Democrats for the deficit problem…..while at the same time ignoring the fact that obstructionist Republicans could easily stop any Democratic attempt at overriding a Bush veto. That's the same reason, by the way, that Democrats could not force Bush to end the Iraq crime. The endless revisionism is meant to excuse the absolute worst American presidency ever and cast blame instead, on anyone BUT Republicans.

    I could say….of King…that he…."is incapable of honesty"……but I won't.

  • The Irreverend

    Rev -

    For argument's sake let's accept your entire deficit rant as correct, though for the record I would disagree with many of your claims. Blamestorming is irrelevant at this point – it doesn't fix the problem. I hope we could all agree that present and the projected future debt levels are a bad thing regardless of who was responsible and how we got here.

    The problem is the current administration's assumption that you can spend your way out of this economic downturn. If this theory is correct, since we are already wildly in debt we should never have experienced the current recession. Why would you double down on a proven policy of failure?

    Spending your way out of a recession is like trying to cure aids by f*king more often once you are infected. It simply makes the problem worse.

    This administration appears more concerned about control and confiscation than trying to implement sound fiscal policies. Unfortunately, their decisions will last beyond our time and will affect our children and future generations. That is morally inexcusable, but it doesn't seem to matter to ANY of these politicians.

  • walter

    King….how's that unpaid for medicare prescription drug plan passed by Bush working out for you?

  • Da King

    Reverend,
    You completely misunderstood and misrepresented nearly everything I said. You took it all as a defense of Bush, when I expressly pointed out it was not. I SAID I was against the Bush deficits, the Iraq war, and the unfunded Part D. Do you only read every third line of what I write, or what ? I don't give Bush a pass on ANY of those things.

    On your point one, a $17.9 billion increase in the debt in 2000 is a DEFICIT, not a surplus. Check your 3rd grade math book, and you'll find the answer there.

    On the wars, I pointed out that Democrats voted 100% FOR the Afghanistan war, and Senate Democrats voted FOR the Iraq war (and they were the majority then), where Dems could have stopped it if they had been the, you know, party of no at that time. That's a fact.

    You do have a point about the wars being off-budget, which was actually Macmon's point. That is valid. That's another trillion dollars spent, and I should have mentioned it. But the Dems still voted FOR those wars. Bush could not have waged them without the approval of the Democrats. Sorry if that fact is inconvenient for you, but it remains a fact.

    Rev says, "Immediately, King gives Bush a pass….."neither of those events were caused by Bush." Conservatives, like King, insist that when GOP presidents are presiding, they can't be held accountable for the "events" that take place"

    Here, the Rev is responding to my point that the dot-com bust and 9/11 were not Bush's fault. The dot-com bust started before Bush stepped into office, and 9/11 happened 7 1/2 monts after Bush became President. Neither event was his fault. Those are the facts. Was Pearl Harbor FDR's fault ? Of course not. It was the fault of the perps, the Japanese. Likewise, 9/11 was the fault of the terrorists who perpetrated the act. I can't believe even you want to blame 9/11 on Bush. It's just stupid.

    Rev says, "In the second half of point 4, King blames Obama for cutting taxes because it added to the deficit."

    The word "blame" is your word, not mine. I was only pointing out Obama's portion of the deficit that he falsely claimed he "inherited." Again, my facts are correct.

    Rev says, "Point 5 tries to place blame on congressional Democrats for the deficit problem…..while at the same time ignoring the fact that obstructionist Republicans could easily stop any Democratic attempt at overriding a Bush veto."

    I'm not even sure what you're trying to say here. Please explain further. Bush didn't veto anything. If you are attempting to pretend that I'm defending Bush again, I'm still not. I'm only pointing out that the Democrats, including Obama, were along for the ride, even though they falsely pretend now that they were not.

    While my post was not at all a defense of Bush, your response seems to want to excuse the Democrats, including Obama, for their every action. And you dare call me dishonest. As usual, your own words disprove……..your own words.

  • Da King

    walter asks, "King….how's that unpaid for medicare prescription drug plan passed by Bush working out for you?"

    I see we have someone else who can't read. Here's what I said about Part D in my post:

    "I was against the Bush deficits, the Iraq War, and the unfunded Medicare Part D too. I don't want to hear any more silly misdirection comments here arguing as if I supported all those things."

  • Da King

    Macmon,
    Good point about the wars being off-budget. I should have mentioned that. That's about a trillion bucks. Mea culpa.

  • Da King

    Irrev says, " If this theory is correct, since we are already wildly in debt we should never have experienced the current recession. Why would you double down on a proven policy of failure?"

    This is something the politicians never seem to want to face. The way I see it, the USA has been in an economic boom phase from the early-to-mid 1980's until now (with some bumps along the way). I think that boom phase is probably over for the next 15-20 years, as the demographics shift unfavorably. The problem is, during the boom years Americans and the government still went deeper and deeper into debt. Enough was never enough in Washington D.C. The government portion of the debt is the responsibility of both political parties, and it seems to me that the problem is….the government engages in short-term thinking rather than long-term planning. Politicians try to get elected and re-elected by doing what they think will make them look good TODAY, the future be damned. As a result, we've basically wasted the boom years and indebted future generations beyond their ability to pay. Deeply irresponsible, and now that the recession has started, the government is reacting the same was as always, by trying to look good TODAY, deficit spending us into a hole so deep that it will be very difficult to get out of. It's entirely artificial, and will lead to even bigger problems down the road, but they don't seem to care. It's like the definition of insanity – doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Sorry big government, but the result will always be the same, and the losers in the end are the American people. It's time to wake up.

  • larry d.

    An interesting article I think provides hints as to why lefties view Obama's Q&A session as such a victory, while others see it as more of the same fibbing.

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/horseraceblog/2010/02/understanding_president_obamas.html

  • knozzmoeking

    "how's that unpaid for medicare prescription drug plan passed by Bush working out for you?
    "

    This is really one of the most laughable talking points to come out of a liberal mouth. The Democrats wante the Medicare drug plan to be twice as large as the one that was passed and now ridicule it for being unfunded?

    This really is one whacked out world where people are ill-informed and don't seem to care.
    Say it often enough (both sides) and it is automatically true.

  • The Irreverend

    ..how's that unpaid for medicare prescription drug plan passed by Bush working out for you?

    Walt -

    While I reiterate the position that all of these unfunded programs are bad, here's a multiple choice test for you to complete:

    1) Which would you prefer:
    a) Medicare Part D Coverage
    b) Subsidies for Failing Investment Banks so that they can continue their bonus programs
    2) Which would you prefer:
    a) Medicare Part D Coverage
    b) Subsidies for Failing Automotive Companies so that they can continue to lose money
    3) Which would you prefer:
    a) Medicare Part D Coverage
    b) Increasing Welfare support so fraud can continue and crack pipes remain filled

    Suddenly Part D doesn't look so bad after all.

  • walter

    not relevant reverand…….that has got to be the stupidest thing you have ever posted

  • walter

    kozz sez…."This is really one of the most laughable talking points to come out of a liberal mouth. The Democrats wante the Medicare drug plan to be twice as large as the one that was passed and now ridicule it for being unfunded?"

    just curious…..what are you talking about?

  • walter

    King sez….""I was against the Bush deficits, the Iraq War, and the unfunded Medicare Part D too."

    according to the not relevant reverand part d doesn't look so bad after all

  • walter

    this from taxvox…….

    "Part D was adopted by Congress in 2003 and began to pay full benefits in 2006.

    Premiums finance only about 25 percent of the program’s cost—the rest is paid through general tax revenues. Unlike Part A hospital insurance, there is no payroll tax funding for this piece of Medicare.

    For the past three years, benefits have been significantly lower than government actuaries first projected, in part because so few costly new drugs have made it on to the market. But don’t worry. That bit of fiscal good fortune is not likely to last long.

    According to the actuary’s intermediate cost assumptions, Part D spending will nearly triple from about $50 billion last year to a staggering $140 billion in 2018. Per capita spending will more than double, from $1,500-a-year to almost $3,200. And the program’s long-run costs are even more troublesome: growing from about 0.4 percent of Gross Domestic Product in 2008 to 1.4 percent of GDP by mid-century to 1.8 percent by 2080. Yikes. That’s about 10 percent of what it has historically cost to run the entire federal government.

    Just as troubling is the uncertainty of these estimates. While $140 billion is the mid-range forecast for 2018, the actuaries warn the cost could range from as low as $107 billion to as much as $180 billion. With admirable understatement, the trustees say, “there remains a very substantial level of uncertainty surrounding these costs projections.”

    if you compare part d with getting shot in the face at close range with a shotgun……part d doesn't look bad at all

  • walter

    King sez…."Later, came the Iraq AUMF. Democrats in the Senate SUPPORTED that war, by a margin of 29-21."

    What I want to know is why you keep pushing this garbage as having any kind of significance. Bush/Cheney/Boehner LIED about Iraq's wmds. Bush/Cheney/Boehner LIED about Iraq's ties to al-qada.

    the Iraq AUMF vote was decided on lies told by Bush/Cheney/Boehner.

    how would the senators that voted for the AUMF known Bush was lying?

  • walter

    here's a report from the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities….it's a little bit more concise than King's drivel……

    http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=3036

    King sez….."When Obama said he inherited a $1.3 trillion deficit when he walked in the door in 2009, that included the Bush-era $700 billion TARP spending (that Obama and the Dems voted FOR). What Obama failed to include was that about $500 billion of TARP has been repaid by the banks, reducing the deficit Obama claims he "inherited" to $800 billion"

    are you saying the banks repaid the $500 billion BEFORE Obama took office?

  • averagejoe5

    Now Walt how could they repay it before Obama took office?

  • N. E. Frye

    " . . . when we came into office . . ." I never noticed before but have presidents commonly used the 1st person plural; just like a royal potentate?

    Yeah, I know. "Picky picky!"

  • The Reverend

    "we" here means….Obama and his White House team.

    And….

    "1) Which would you prefer:
    a) Medicare Part D Coverage
    b) Subsidies for Failing Investment Banks so that they can continue their bonus programs
    2) Which would you prefer:
    a) Medicare Part D Coverage
    b) Subsidies for Failing Automotive Companies so that they can continue to lose money"

    Those were ALL done under a GOP administration with GOP support. I would have preferred it if the Supremes hadn't placed the Chimp in the White House. That was my, you know, preference.

  • N. E. Frye

    I'm sure you are right, Rev., (Even my dog puts out some straight poop every now and then.)

  • The Reverend

    I wish I could train mine to do that, N.E.

  • Da King

    As you all can see, ALL Walter's points are laughable.

  • walter

    and as you all can see how many people agree with you King…..LOL

  • averagejoe5

    Oh they are agreeing……

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