you said….."This would lead us to believe walt is open to Holdren's ideas about forced sterilization, eugenics, etc." That's just crap you made up

I stand by my statement……you guys simply have no clue what scientists and engineers do

Agreed on curtailing immigration, especially with our unemployment problem.

How about we eliminate tax credits for more than two children ? That would still actually reduce the population. I agree in principle that we have to stop rewarding people for having bunches of kids. It's actually become a lifestyle choice. Having lots of kids is a way to get lots of money and help from the government.

I'm with you on the in-vitro Medicare/Medicaid idea too.

The question is where are we right now on the road to self-destruction, and what should we be doing?

I'd say it's time to:

Close all borders 100% to include 100% physical checking of ALL inbound containers;

Seize and ship out ALL illegals immediately.

Curtail immigration by about 99%.

Store all surplus grain for future emergency use here instead of sending it overseas. What was it Joseph told the Pharoah?

Eliminate tax exemptions for more than one child.

Eliminate any Medicare or Medicaid payments for in vitro fertilization or artificially induced pregnancies.

"We should use educational and voluntary preventive means to achieve zero population growth." Certainly this would be everybodys' first choice. Waldren is NOT talking about first choices……he's talking about last choices

I don't think that there's a scientist or engineer out there that doesn't use the term "what if"

On the other side of the coin, we have the fundamentalist christians who oppose birth control and sex education. That is just unrealistic and stupid. We should use educational and voluntary preventive means to achieve zero population growth. That's very important over the long run, but when the government starts talking about forcing people into sterilization, that should scare the pants off everybody (no pun intended). There is a significant faction in this country that wants to control everything about our lives. They have to be resisted.

Understanding that Holdren's ideas would work is certainly NOT the same as being open to Holdren's ideas.

King….work on that reading comprehension

A recent issue of Nattional Geographic (May?) has an article that claims we have been consuming more food than we produce for most of the last decade. After talking about the Green Revolution that staved off famine beginning at a time when the pop was about 2.5 Gygs the article then says we need another green rev and we need it fast.

I think Walter is raising valid point(s). Some of the liberal speak we get turns me off but the greatest threat to world civilization seems to me to be overpopulation. Eutope + Japan are at about zero pop growth. Central Africa is doubling every 20 years and can only do so as long as the developed world continues to subsidize it. Conservatives need to stop regarding the question as preposterous and start cogitating. We need something more than abstinence and rythm.

Do you think that the United States is pretty close to overpopulation now, or might it take many more years. While I am talking about that question, it might be fun to ask if we would have much of a chance to survive overpopulation by the rest of the world, (excluding Europe until Muslims take it over) with the military forces that we will have available if we continue to cut our military forces and their capabilities. With the present rate of socialization in this country I worry a lot about how much longer before other parts of the world start to try to send their excess numbers here and even, begin attacks for our land which is pretty productive compared to most of the third world.

I developed the just mentioned thoughts back in the 1970s when I was taking classes in various colleges and hearing things that made me wonder when it would be our turn to get to fight for our lives and our land.

Hey, those old boys convinced me back then that maybe a bit of birth control, forced or not, would be very good outside the US. We have nearly doubled our population since then but can still support more people. Now how will Holdren slap his eugenics program on others who are more dangerous than we are where population is concerned?

I don't think it's necessarily dishonest, but there might be a bit of cognitive dissonance here, in that if the thrust is how far to go to prevent overpopulation, it's a bit illogical to claim that the question has been answered without simultaneously admitting that the question was indeed asked. For what it's worth, I think the problem of population growth is much more ominous than most conservatives are willing to admit.

Addendum to questionaire:

Close all borders absolutely, mine fields, etc. as necessary? Y__ N__

100% inspectiions of all inbound containers? Y___ N___

Immediate seizure & deportation of all illegals? Y___ N___

99% reduction of all legal immigration? Y___ N___

creation of a 'planetary government to impose these and/or other restrictions worldwide? Y___ N___

Immediate cessation of food exports to 3rd world nations? Y___ N___

Let me put the question to you:

In the event of a threatened population crisis that threatened the welfare of you or your family would you be willing to do or support doing:

>Passing out pamphlets urging sexual restraint? Y___ N___

>Free govt. information about birth Control & abortion? Y___ N___

>Free abortions paid for by Government? Y___ N___

> A 1 child/1familypolicy with incentives? Y___ N___

> A mandatory 1 child/1family policy with forced abortions? Y___ N___

> a he-who-works-not-eats-not rule? Y___ N___

> Forced Sterilizations of those less likely to produce healthy productive offspring? Y___ N___

> Torture, but only to ferret out those who violate the above rules thereby increasing the threat to your family? Y___ N___

walter said "Sure it's radical and sure it's scary but it wouldn't be if overpopulation did become a huge problem for the survival of the human race.
If over-population was going to mean the death of millions if not billions of humans because of starvation, Holdren's ideas might be very viable"

This would lead us to believe walt is open to Holdren's ideas about forced sterilization, eugenics, etc. But then when you respond to him as such, he says this:

"frye…..I see your reading comprehension is on par with King…..I said absolutly nothing about forcing abortion or euthanizing a stupid or ugly kid."

Well, yes he did say something about forcing abortion and eugenics, and our reading comprehension is just fine.

Was that about it?…..indeed

And Tory takes the fifth but throws in a comment about tolerating others beliefs – unless they're Jehovah's witnesses. Now Walter, if that's an answer to the question, do we now know that she would or would not abort, euthanize or at least engage in supporting activities like informing on those who have too many kids or at least knitting socks for the concentration camp guards? I mean unless she's a politician and/or U R 1 2 it doesn't seem to me that we can predict her actions from this. Politicians often toss off platitudes like that and claim they've answered the question, but even if she's running for office that's a pretty vague answer.

And Tory, you're lucky they don't have a Jehovah's Witness Studies program at Akron. They'd be all over you. Actually I'd guess they're probably praying for you. Next time you see some of them you should take em to lunch or at least for coffee. I suspect theywould be at least as much fun to argue with as Walter.

King….tory's "…..the stinkin' Jehovah's Witnesses….." comment? No comment?

Creepy is the right word, larry.

Frye is right that without the illegal immigrants and their progeny coming to this country by the millions, we'd be near zero population growth, avoiding any potential population problem. But liberals (and some conservatives too) work to torpedo border enforcement, because it isn't politically correct. Such wrongheaded policy could lead directly to the more radical solutions outlined by Obama's Science Czar. It's rather like adding stupid on top of stupid.

And, if Jewish people were proselytizing on your doorstep on an almost daily basis, to the point that you're researching whether you can file harassment charges, you might be tempted to say something a little less tame than what I said. My point was that radical liberals follow their dogma like it's a religion, and that's what you sound like. Sorry to call you on it.