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Our Radical New Science Czar

by Da King on July 12, 2009

in civil rights,environment,ethics,first amendment,liberalism,moonbats,Uncategorized,White House administration

Upon taking office, President Obama vowed to "restore science to it's rightful place."

Enter John Holdren, whom Barack Obama recently appointed Director of the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy, Assistant to the President for Science and Technology, and Co-Chair of the President's Council of Advisors on Science and Technology. Holdren's informal title is Science Czar (and as you shall see shortly, "Czar" is definitely the correct description for Holdren).

The following ideas come from the 1977 book Ecoscience, co-authored by Holdren, and illustrate what our radical new Science Czar thinks is the "rightful place" of science. Passages from this book read like the fiction from Huxley's Brave New World, or the ravings of a tyrranical lunatic. According to this book, Holdren is a totalitarian, a eugenicist, and an environmental extremist. What he proposes is simply beyond belief. Here are some direct quotes from Holdren's book:

Indeed, it has been concluded that compulsory population-control laws, even including laws requiring compulsory abortion, could be sustained under the existing Constitution if the population crisis became sufficiently severe to endanger the society.

Hmmm. I don't remember reading anything in the Constitution that would allow the government to mandate forced birth control or forced abortions. I wonder who "concluded" that ?

One way to carry out this disapproval might be to insist that all illegitimate babies be put up for adoption—especially those born to minors, who generally are not capable of caring properly for a child alone. If a single mother really wished to keep her baby, she might be obliged to go through adoption proceedings and demonstrate her ability to support and care for it. Adoption proceedings probably should remain more difficult for single people than for married couples, in recognition of the relative difficulty of raising children alone. It would even be possible to require pregnant single women to marry or have abortions, perhaps as an alternative to placement for adoption, depending on the society.

Forced marriage, forced adoption. Holdren isn't quite up to speed on the ideas of liberty or freedom of expression, is he ? I'm pretty sure the Constitution DOES say something about those concepts.

Adding a sterilant to drinking water or staple foods is a suggestion that seems to horrify people more than most proposals for involuntary fertility control. Indeed, this would pose some very difficult political, legal, and social questions, to say nothing of the technical problems. No such sterilant exists today, nor does one appear to be under development. To be acceptable, such a substance would have to meet some rather stiff requirements: it must be uniformly effective, despite widely varying doses received by individuals, and despite varying degrees of fertility and sensitivity among individuals; it must be free of dangerous or unpleasant side effects; and it must have no effect on members of the opposite sex, children, old people, pets, or livestock.

Sterilize the population via drinking water, as long as it doesn't harm the livestock. Sure, Mr. Holdren. Was it Thomas Jefferson who first spoke those inspiring words, or was it Abraham Lincoln during his Gettysburg Address ? I can never remember.

a program of sterilizing women after their second or third child, despite the relatively greater difficulty of the operation than vasectomy, might be easier to implement than trying to sterilize men.

The development of a long-term sterilizing capsule that could be implanted under the skin and removed when pregnancy is desired opens additional possibilities for coercive fertility control. The capsule could be implanted at puberty and might be removable, with official permission, for a limited number of births.

Maybe they can combine the sterilization implant with the National ID implant chip. The totalitarian two-fer. I'm glad Holdren left open the possibility that some of us peons MIGHT be able to have children with the permission of the government. Of thee I sing.

If some individuals contribute to general social deterioration by overproducing children, and if the need is compelling, they can be required by law to exercise reproductive responsibility—just as they can be required to exercise responsibility in their resource-consumption patterns—providing they are not denied equal protection.

I wonder how the government will determine which people are causing "social deterioration" ???? Eugenics, anyone ? Btw, the government is already trying to require us to "exercise responsibility" in our "resource-consumption patterns," in case anyone was wondering if this type of stuff could ever really happen.

Perhaps those agencies, combined with UNEP and the United Nations population agencies, might eventually be developed into a Planetary Regime—sort of an international superagency for population, resources, and environment. Such a comprehensive Planetary Regime could control the development, administration, conservation, and distribution of all natural resources, renewable or nonrenewable, at least insofar as international implications exist. Thus the Regime could have the power to control pollution not only in the atmosphere and oceans, but also in such freshwater bodies as rivers and lakes that cross international boundaries or that discharge into the oceans. The Regime might also be a logical central agency for regulating all international trade, perhaps including assistance from DCs to LDCs, and including all food on the international market.

The Planetary Regime might be given responsibility for determining the optimum population for the world and for each region and for arbitrating various countries' shares within their regional limits. Control of population size might remain the responsibility of each government, but the Regime would have some power to enforce the agreed limits.

One worlders unite !!! I don't know why Holdren mentioned the Constitution in that previous passage from his book, because he clearly could care less about it. He wants to throw it out the window in favor of a planetary governing body. Holdren doesn't recognize any limitations on the power of the state. At least we won't have to worry about maintaining the integrity of sovereign nations any longer, because there won't be any sovereign nations. It's Big Brother gone global. What could possibly go wrong ?

If such things are science's "rightful place," well, I'd rather go back to where it was before. What kind of lunacy are we ushering into being here ? Where is America going ? The former fringe radicals are taking the seats of power, and that is truly frightening. What's next, Bill Ayers as the Education Czar ? It wouldn't be much different. We have to stop these people.

  • averagejoe5

    Scarey stuff King. I guess not many people remember the LSD induced philosophies of the 60's and 70's made by spoiled kids whose parents were of the influential sect of society. Well guess what, they have arrived, these kids are now your leaders. The chickens have come to roost.

  • The Reverend

    The book was written 32 years ago. Some perspective required.

  • roysoldboy

    Yeah, Rev there is no telling how far his opinions may have traveled down the one world government, is there?

    BTW, Rev who was it that had to approve this clown's appointment to czarship? Why I guess since he is answerable to only The Man there didn't have to be any kind of approval. That kind of thinking scares me. However, I do hear lots of global warmers talking about the power of "real" science.

  • walter

    I'm not sure if you guys understand what scientists do.

    Scientists and engineers are given problems and their task is to find solutions to those problems. The problem that Holdren was looking at was overpopulation and how to prevent it.

    Sure it's radical and sure it's scary but it wouldn't be if overpopulation did become a huge problem for the survival of the human race.

    If over-population was going to mean the death of millions if not billions of humans because of starvation, Holdren's ideas might be very viable

  • larry d.

    Not really Walter. And, I'm not sure you understand what his job description is. It's director of science and tech policy. He's not there to "be a scientist," he's there to help the president implement whatever nutjob authoritarian nightmare ideas he might have.

    There's always excuses and rationalizations, but it's always borderline creepy with this president.

  • walter

    larry, you falsly accuse me of writing something filthy about Mexicans and you call Obama creepy?

    gimme a break

  • Tory Bug
  • mary

    walter is absolutely correct. Scientists brainstorm all possible solutions to a problem and then from there weigh and experiment and propose and yadda yadda yadda in an effort to solve a problem or further a goal. Their job is to point out/determine possibilities.

    larry — as Rev said the book was written 32 years ago WHEN he was not "director of science and tech policy."

    Tory Bug — his job as a scientist is to uncover possible solutions and present data — his job as a director is to lead and support the decisions of a combination of people not just his own personal agenda.

    I was educated and trained scientist and I also became Director of Technology of a large company and I understand what a scientist does or should do when he is performing as a scientist and what he should do when he becomes "director of something." We do not know yet what kind of a job he will do in his new role because he has not done it yet but we do know what kind of a scientist he would be if he did not put all options on the table for examination and analysis.

  • larry d.

    Forced euthanasia would sure save the government a lot of money.

  • N. E. Frye

    Malthus was right all along.

  • dd20

    Forced abortions and sterilization is just natural selection in action.

    You’d think this would be an issue both the right and left could agree on. The scientists and enviros get their population control and the republicans could eliminate the groups they hate (blacks, the poor and the elderly). Its win – win baby!

  • walter

    mary….King has a penchant for making something up about a persons post and then turning around and accusing them of lying

    only does it to women posters

  • roysoldboy

    How did our federal government get along without at least 33 czars like we have now? I'll bet that someone in DC thinks that there will be some trouble in instigating the type of government they want and that we can only make it with these people who don't have to answer to anyone other than the President. Every time Obama appoints another "czar" it appears that he has to do this to get someone who can do his bidding at all times.

    For instance, I remember when he appointed my governor to be his Secretary of Health and Human Services and in less than a week appointed a czar to do what used to be the job of that Secretary. All the supposedly "good", I say obedient, people he has appointed to be Secretary's and every one of them has been lowered, in terms of what they do, by the appointment of a czar over and above them. I just can't see what is going on other than the fact that these czars are all responsible to no one but him and the Cabinet members are responsible to all of us, Congress more than us, so what is he trying to accomplish? I really hope it isn't what it appears to be to some of us and that the Rev is right.

    Rev, let me say that I think you and Walter have it wrong, as to why he is doing this.

  • G-Mann

    Hmm, was not the eugenics program run here in the US in the 40's and 50's a Republican program, to stem the growth of "poor and uneducated populations".

    Because the basic principle and research were paid for by some of the most important Republicans of the day. Carnegie, Rockefeller, Roosevelt, Ford. In fact, aren't Republicans anti-welfare, and anti-poor assistance (health care etc.) Is it not true that prior to WWII Hitler had his scientists confer with US scientists to come up with ideas on to best run a eugenics program? Was our country not the leading researcher of the principles of eugenics? Yes actually it was.

  • larry d.

    Well G-Mann it looks like Obama may be picking up the baton, which should be creepy to Americans of all political stripes. But what is your point?

  • G-Mann

    The point is, Republicans would rejoice for this, in fact the common misconception about WWII was that we entered to "right the wrongs" no we entered because Japan attacked us. Our government had no concern about what Hitler was doing, and we historically have had no concern about countries committing genocide or "ethnic cleansing".

    The point is that Da King was trying to lambast the guy for writing an opinion 30 years ago that 75% of all Republican conservatives share to this day.

  • larry d.

    Where do you get that number, G-Mann? My guess would be 1 percent, if that. Most of the one-worlder, population control nutjobs I've encountered have been lefties, though I wouldn't guess at a percentage.

    I wonder if this fellow has changed his opinion of 30 years ago? Surely there'd be some record of it but I can't find any evidence.

  • Tory Bug

    G-Mann, maybe you should remember that the political parties of today are not all like the political parties bearing their names in the past.

    For example, the Republican were once considered liberals for opposing slavery. That's right, the party was formed in 1854 by an assortment of folks from other parties who opposed slavery. The party that became the Democrats, however, was formed in 1792 and originally called itself Republicans, or Jeffersonian Republicans. The Democratic Party identified itself as the "white man's party" and demonized the Republican Party as being "Negro dominated." Which political party was responsible mainly for Jim Crow laws? The party that is now the Democratic party. http://newsblaze.com/story/20080118113555nnnn.nb/topstory.html (If you don't want to read the entire page, just skim the section titles, which are bolded. You'll get the basic point, though you can also read to see points that are being made proven.)

    With 80% of Ohio Republicans opposing abortion (http://www.lifenews.com/state4289.html), how can you say that we would support forced abortion? I don't even support the death penalty, so why would I be in support of killing children. And the fact remains, it you leave a path open to 'investigation', that says a lot about the kind of person you are.

  • walter

    tory….let's say we build a strawman. A while back we were discussing torture. In that discussion you said you would do ANYTHING (which I would take that you would torture) to protect or gaurantee the safety of your children.

    Let's say the boogyman here was overpopulation. Over population was a threat to the health and safety of your children and your children's children. Would you be against forced family planning if it protected your children's and your children's childrens future?

  • averagejoe5

    Walter, your rationalizations never cease to amaze me. When you write this stuff, are you laughing as hard as I am when I read it? I know you can't be serious…..are you? LOL good stuff.

    G- do you work for MSNBC. They tend to just make sh*t up as they go along too. 2 diffences in the scenario. Those men are dead. This man is being considered for a place high in govt and the only one he answers to is Obama.

    We do have a group that is trying to change the world and they are controlling the democrats and their post turtle. Watch the laws and see which ones are being added and which of your rights are being taken away.

  • walter

    no joe, actually I'm just kinda curious…….just like to know what people think

    that's just the way I was brought up……obviously not the way you were brought up

    I just happen to prefer my way……

  • Tory Bug

    walter, you're bringing up a rather idiotic argument, and no, I will not play. Move to China if you want such limited civil rights for other humans. I have no right to impose my beliefs/desires on others, nor does anyone else, something I often tell the stinkin' Jehovah's Witnesses who will not stop coming to my neighborhood. You sound kind of like one of them, actually, lol.

  • N. E. Frye

    Walter's hypothetical is unanswerable. Which means we need to give it some heavy thought.

    So the book is thirty two years old. The population has increased by – what – two or three billions since then. People change their minds when they see changed circumstances. The only change I see is that the population curve has gone off the top of the chart and is still climbing. Why would a guy who favored strong preventive checks 32 years ago not favor them now?

    Malthus categorized rationally thought out measures as 'preventive' checks and said that the only other kind were the natural 'positive' checks which he summed up as 'human misery'. Some of the preventive checks have diminished or disappeared since 1790.

    If you don't like this guys ideas, come up with some of your own.

    I have rather liked most of the Jehovah's Witnesses I have met and enjoy talking to them, although we do have some disagreements.

  • larry d.

    You can eliminate bad ideas without having a replacement idea in place. Scientists, doctors and just about everyone else do it all the time.

    Changing your mind as circumstances change might simply mean you were wrong in the past, and in his case he was wrong not just in his science but in his ethics. What's he wrong about now–science, ethics, or both?

  • N. E. Frye

    How about this idea? I've read that the US could very closely approach zero pop growth were it not for the immigration factor. Our natural groath rate compares very favorably with China's. So if we kick out all the illegals and drastically curtail legal immigration, maybe we wouldn't have to worry so much about all those other things the guy WAS in favor of but MAY not now be advocating.

  • averagejoe5

    G-mann talks about 75% of Republicans favor eugenics. If you think about it the Dems are the ones that have already approved and started their own program it's called abortion at will. They have as usual packaged it to make it sound a little less like fetus murder by calling it a women's right, just to remove the guilt factor. (this is an NLP technique) hhhmmmmm…silly libs….just like that tax cut that equaled $14 per week, if you could find a job to get the cut. They package like a present, beautiful wrapping paper, a beautiful bow and inside is a pile of sh*t. But they have their fans.

  • walter

    tory sez…."…….and no, I will not play." and then answers the question with "I have no right to impose my beliefs/desires on others,….."

    frye….tory seemed to be able to come up with an answer

    tory sez……"…..the stinkin' Jehovah's Witnesses….." I wonder what the reaction would be here if I refered to Jews as stinkin' Jews?

  • http://keelerreport.blogspot.com/ ben keeler

    I think we need more czars.

  • N. E. Frye

    But we'll probably end up with one. Right now the dems are ahead in the running.

  • averagejoe5

    Good idea Ben. We could have a fast food czar and call him "The Burger King".

  • Tory Bug

    walter, giving my general viewpoint of government is not at all addressing the preposterous 'what-if'.

    And, if Jewish people were proselytizing on your doorstep on an almost daily basis, to the point that you're researching whether you can file harassment charges, you might be tempted to say something a little less tame than what I said. My point was that radical liberals follow their dogma like it's a religion, and that's what you sound like. Sorry to call you on it.

  • Da King

    If I'm reading these comments correctly, the liberals are open to the ideas of forced sterilization, forced abortion, and eugenics. The conservatives are not.

    Creepy is the right word, larry.

    Frye is right that without the illegal immigrants and their progeny coming to this country by the millions, we'd be near zero population growth, avoiding any potential population problem. But liberals (and some conservatives too) work to torpedo border enforcement, because it isn't politically correct. Such wrongheaded policy could lead directly to the more radical solutions outlined by Obama's Science Czar. It's rather like adding stupid on top of stupid.

  • walter

    tory….I can only read what you write. You started your paragraph talking about my question and then you answered it in the same paragraph. If you were going on another tangent you would have needed to start a new paragraph. Sorry to call you on that.

  • N. E. Frye

    Picky, picky!

  • walter

    King, if you would have read the comments correctly you would have found out that republicans, like yourself, simply don't understand what scientists do. Scientists are pragmatic……they simply offer solutions to problems.

    King….tory's "…..the stinkin' Jehovah's Witnesses….." comment? No comment?

  • N. E. Frye

    Now let me see if I've got this: Walter's question was something like would you be willing to force or help in forcing other people to abort their fetus or euthanize their stupid or ugly kids so your own might survive. Was that about it? I guess we should take this in the light of some threatened shortage of food, water, air, and or admissions to prestigious schools.

    And Tory takes the fifth but throws in a comment about tolerating others beliefs – unless they're Jehovah's witnesses. Now Walter, if that's an answer to the question, do we now know that she would or would not abort, euthanize or at least engage in supporting activities like informing on those who have too many kids or at least knitting socks for the concentration camp guards? I mean unless she's a politician and/or U R 1 2 it doesn't seem to me that we can predict her actions from this. Politicians often toss off platitudes like that and claim they've answered the question, but even if she's running for office that's a pretty vague answer.

    And Tory, you're lucky they don't have a Jehovah's Witness Studies program at Akron. They'd be all over you. Actually I'd guess they're probably praying for you. Next time you see some of them you should take em to lunch or at least for coffee. I suspect theywould be at least as much fun to argue with as Walter.

  • walter

    frye…..I see your reading comprehension is on par with King…..I said absolutly nothing about forcing abortion or euthanizing a stupid or ugly kid.

    Was that about it?…..indeed

  • N. E. Frye

    Maybe I didn't understand the question. Try rephrasing it.

  • walter

    how 'bout I make it true false or multiple choice?

  • Da King

    Frye,
    You didn't understand walter because walter is dishonest. He's just trying to bait people. For instance, on this thread:

    walter said "Sure it's radical and sure it's scary but it wouldn't be if overpopulation did become a huge problem for the survival of the human race.
    If over-population was going to mean the death of millions if not billions of humans because of starvation, Holdren's ideas might be very viable"

    This would lead us to believe walt is open to Holdren's ideas about forced sterilization, eugenics, etc. But then when you respond to him as such, he says this:

    "frye…..I see your reading comprehension is on par with King…..I said absolutly nothing about forcing abortion or euthanizing a stupid or ugly kid."

    Well, yes he did say something about forcing abortion and eugenics, and our reading comprehension is just fine.

  • N. E. Frye

    Ok Walter, it started with a discussion of , shall we say 'extreme' measures for controlling population growth, some discussion over whether republicans or Dems were more extreme, you brought up torture as an extreme and then popped your hypothetical. After that intro, should we assume that you were asking Tory if she would be willing under the postulated circumstances to hand out leaflets extolling abstinence or rythem as a means of birth control? Or was it something even more extreme than that?

    Let me put the question to you:

    In the event of a threatened population crisis that threatened the welfare of you or your family would you be willing to do or support doing:

    >Passing out pamphlets urging sexual restraint? Y___ N___

    >Free govt. information about birth Control & abortion? Y___ N___

    >Free abortions paid for by Government? Y___ N___

    > A 1 child/1familypolicy with incentives? Y___ N___

    > A mandatory 1 child/1family policy with forced abortions? Y___ N___

    > a he-who-works-not-eats-not rule? Y___ N___

    > Forced Sterilizations of those less likely to produce healthy productive offspring? Y___ N___

    > Torture, but only to ferret out those who violate the above rules thereby increasing the threat to your family? Y___ N___

  • N. E. Frye

    P.S.

    Addendum to questionaire:

    Close all borders absolutely, mine fields, etc. as necessary? Y__ N__

    100% inspectiions of all inbound containers? Y___ N___

    Immediate seizure & deportation of all illegals? Y___ N___

    99% reduction of all legal immigration? Y___ N___

    creation of a 'planetary government to impose these and/or other restrictions worldwide? Y___ N___

    Immediate cessation of food exports to 3rd world nations? Y___ N___

  • N. E. Frye

    The real gist of Walter's "question" seems to me to be: "How far would you go (to protect family, children, etc.)"? That does seem to me to be what he's getting at, and it's a fair question. This part: "Sure it's radical and sure it's scary but it wouldn't be if overpopulation did become a huge problem for the survival of the human race.
    If over-population was going to mean the death of millions if not billions of humans because of starvation, Holdren's ideas might be very viable", seems to demand an answer, and I think ol' Walt is still waiting for one. I see lots of fodder here for chewing.

    I don't think it's necessarily dishonest, but there might be a bit of cognitive dissonance here, in that if the thrust is how far to go to prevent overpopulation, it's a bit illogical to claim that the question has been answered without simultaneously admitting that the question was indeed asked. For what it's worth, I think the problem of population growth is much more ominous than most conservatives are willing to admit.

  • roysoldboy

    N.E., I remember studying about the impending over population of the Earth in 1977. It was so scary since it was the Holdren type of people we got all our books from. It seemed a surety that we would be at the point of millions dying every year by 2000 according to those people then. How many more years do you think it will take to get the Earth to that point, this time?

    Do you think that the United States is pretty close to overpopulation now, or might it take many more years. While I am talking about that question, it might be fun to ask if we would have much of a chance to survive overpopulation by the rest of the world, (excluding Europe until Muslims take it over) with the military forces that we will have available if we continue to cut our military forces and their capabilities. With the present rate of socialization in this country I worry a lot about how much longer before other parts of the world start to try to send their excess numbers here and even, begin attacks for our land which is pretty productive compared to most of the third world.

    I developed the just mentioned thoughts back in the 1970s when I was taking classes in various colleges and hearing things that made me wonder when it would be our turn to get to fight for our lives and our land.

    Hey, those old boys convinced me back then that maybe a bit of birth control, forced or not, would be very good outside the US. We have nearly doubled our population since then but can still support more people. Now how will Holdren slap his eugenics program on others who are more dangerous than we are where population is concerned?

  • N. E. Frye

    Ehrlich claimed around 1990 that the 5.5 gygs we had then was already too much for the earth to sustain. The fact that we are still growing doesn't necessarily mean that he was wrong. Malthus apparently thought the 1 billion (-) of his day was already about max. There is a book called 'How Many People Can the Earth Support?' which gives some sixty plus estimates of carrying capacity going all the way back to Leewunhoek. I'd say ten gygs is about the median.

    A recent issue of Nattional Geographic (May?) has an article that claims we have been consuming more food than we produce for most of the last decade. After talking about the Green Revolution that staved off famine beginning at a time when the pop was about 2.5 Gygs the article then says we need another green rev and we need it fast.

    I think Walter is raising valid point(s). Some of the liberal speak we get turns me off but the greatest threat to world civilization seems to me to be overpopulation. Eutope + Japan are at about zero pop growth. Central Africa is doubling every 20 years and can only do so as long as the developed world continues to subsidize it. Conservatives need to stop regarding the question as preposterous and start cogitating. We need something more than abstinence and rythm.

  • walter

    King, when I say "If over-population was going to mean the death of millions if not billions of humans because of starvation, Holdren's ideas might be very viable"…..that's just simply a statement of fact.

    Understanding that Holdren's ideas would work is certainly NOT the same as being open to Holdren's ideas.

    King….work on that reading comprehension

  • walter

    King….it would be like you and I standing atop a 10 story building and wanting to get back to ground level. You say we could jump and reach ground level. Yes, that would work…….would I be open to that idea? Not so much

  • Da King

    Well, gee, walter, excuse me if I confused your pronouncement that Holdren's solutions were viable under certain circumstances with the idea that you were open to them. Where'd I ever get a crazy idea like that ? I should have known that meant you were completely against them, but I forgot my walter-to-english translator.

  • Da King

    Frye,
    I'm concerned with overpopulation myself, but the options outlined in Holdren's book are abhorrent. There is also a healthy dose of racism behind the eugenics argument. Margaret Sanger, the American queen of eugenics, talked about eliminating the undesirable people (minorities and the poor). It was Hitlerian master race stuff, cloaked in Darwinism (survival of the fittest). She ended up founding Planned Parenthood. No coincidence, and wouldn't you know, minority babies are aborted at three times the rate of white babies today. Nobody ever talks about this aspect of the abortion argument, but it has eugenics origins.

    On the other side of the coin, we have the fundamentalist christians who oppose birth control and sex education. That is just unrealistic and stupid. We should use educational and voluntary preventive means to achieve zero population growth. That's very important over the long run, but when the government starts talking about forcing people into sterilization, that should scare the pants off everybody (no pun intended). There is a significant faction in this country that wants to control everything about our lives. They have to be resisted.

  • pdt1420

    So walter, as a conservative, you are against all the above proposed ideas, right?

  • walter

    King, you don't need a translator…..you just have to stop making crap up. You did the exact same thing to Andrea.

    "We should use educational and voluntary preventive means to achieve zero population growth." Certainly this would be everybodys' first choice. Waldren is NOT talking about first choices……he's talking about last choices

    I don't think that there's a scientist or engineer out there that doesn't use the term "what if"

  • N. E. Frye

    Agree pretty much.

    The question is where are we right now on the road to self-destruction, and what should we be doing?

    I'd say it's time to:

    Close all borders 100% to include 100% physical checking of ALL inbound containers;

    Seize and ship out ALL illegals immediately.

    Curtail immigration by about 99%.

    Store all surplus grain for future emergency use here instead of sending it overseas. What was it Joseph told the Pharoah?

    Eliminate tax exemptions for more than one child.

    Eliminate any Medicare or Medicaid payments for in vitro fertilization or artificially induced pregnancies.

  • Da King

    Give it a rest, walter. I ain't making anything up, and I told the truth about Palin's INCREASE of the Special Olympics budget.

  • Da King

    Frye,
    I'm with you on closing the borders, but I wouldn't throw out all the illegals that are here already. Once we stop the flood of illegals coming in, we can work to legalize the ones that are already here. I don't think it's workable to toss 12-20 million people out of the country. I'd give the illegals a certain amount of time to become legal. The ones that don't, then I'd toss them out.

    Agreed on curtailing immigration, especially with our unemployment problem.

    How about we eliminate tax credits for more than two children ? That would still actually reduce the population. I agree in principle that we have to stop rewarding people for having bunches of kids. It's actually become a lifestyle choice. Having lots of kids is a way to get lots of money and help from the government.

    I'm with you on the in-vitro Medicare/Medicaid idea too.

  • walter

    King…..what part don't you get about me calling you out when you said Andrea was a lying? Andrea's statement was a statement of fact.

    you said….."This would lead us to believe walt is open to Holdren's ideas about forced sterilization, eugenics, etc." That's just crap you made up

    I stand by my statement……you guys simply have no clue what scientists and engineers do

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