What Happened In Honduras

I would venture to say that Obama would give an intelligent, well thought out response, unlike our predecessor. Let`s see, Zelaya was elected in 2005, right. That`s around three years under the nose of W. I wonder why Bush let Zelaya get away with bullying tactics during his administration? Let`s ask Cheney. How would Bush and Cheney respond to the question?

Mr. King,
Given our backing of some very shady characters in the region, given our meddling in their internal politics, given the fact that many of the region's most evil men are graduates of our School of the Americas, I doubt that many Hondurans or other Central Americans give a rat's ass what Obama thinks.

What is interesting to me is a Constitution which makes any attempts at its reform illegal, with immediate removal from office being mandated.

Bush didn't let Zelaya get away with bullying tactics, Fred. Zelaya waited until the U.S. elected a president who would.

I'm sure Hondurans care what Obama thinks, frank, because I've seen signs pleading to him in some of their demonstrations.

What is interesting to me is your allusions to American meddling in Central America but coinciding refusal to acknowledge the meddling pressure Obama is putting on that country to re-install a fledgling Chavez-puppet tyrant.

Larry, So what you`re telling me is Zelaya didn`t do any bullying under Bush? Let`s see….conflicts with the media in 2007, call to legalize drugs early in 2008 to help curb violence in his country, late in 2008 and trying to get a NEW Constitution to allow him to seek re-election among other things. And as history has shown us…….America has intervened in the "banana wars" tens of times over the last hundred years. Obama`s shift in U.S. foreign policy has already yielded positive results around the world. The U.S. is no position to rush pell-mell into HONDURAS for God`s sake. We`ve got bigger problems with North Korea and Afganistan.

Who is talking about rushing into Honduras pell mell, Fred? Obama seems intent on helping Chavez and the Castros re-insert a fledgling tyrant. I'd like to see him butt out and recognize the constitutional government that's there, is all.

Did you want Bush to rush in pell mell? You seem all over the board on this one.

On first look, I bet frank has it right…

"What is interesting to me is a Constitution which makes any attempts at its reform illegal, with immediate removal from office being mandated."

I imagine the dispute centers on that sentence. What their Constitution actually says about these matters.

Honduras would not be comparable with the U.S., because the U.S. doesn't remove it's leaders when they openly violate the Constitution.

It seems simple to me. The US has had a history of ignoring the results of legal and constitutional actions in the Americas if they were viewed as detrimental to our interests. The only difference here is that Obama interests are different than they have historically been. He sides with the "progressive" movement in the Americas in which the central government steadily increases its power and control over the economic and social decisions and opposes the old ways of bottom up non- inclusive capitalism. Same game different goal. But here is the subtle difference. You are not meddling if you are correcting a wrong or making it a better world which was not the case in the past but is now.

Larry, how is Obama intent on re-inserting a tyrant? What has he said, done? And, yes, bullying tactics occured under Bush. I agree that the U.S. should butt out. I am inferring from your first sentence in your first post that you think Bush may have acted more forcefully?

KING,
Just wanted to let you know you have my respect for the time and thought you put into your posts. I also marvel at your ability to maintain your equilb-rium when dealing wtih those that live in a alternate reality governed by wishful thinking(god knows I cant).

I don't know what Bush has to do with the present situation at all, Fred. And I don't care. He's retired.

You`re the one that brought W into the picture from the first sentence in your first post! It`s called compare/contrast!

Fred, let it go man. Are Bush and Cheney in the picture? NO! Is Honduras an America state or territory? It was none of Bush's business therefore he didn't let Z bully anyone. Z wasn't his responsibility?
What scares me is why Obama tends to side with the communist leaders.

Obama sides with communists? C`mon…you`re not serious?

Actually Fred, it was you who brought Bush into the conversation with your first post.

And Obama is siding with the marxist leaders (Castro, Chavez, Ortega). But so are the UN and the OAS. He has lots of company.

frank says, "What is interesting to me is a Constitution which makes any attempts at its reform illegal, with immediate removal from office being mandated."

I guess the Hondurans, who have witnessed dictator after dictator rule in Central and South America, felt compelled to prevent a reoccurence in their country. My reading of the Honduran Constitution is that the President may not violate the term limits provision, or he will be removed. I don't know if the Honduran Constitution would prevent their Congress from changing the term limits provision or not. Other parts of their Constitution have been amended. I only know that President Zelaya had no right. He was acting like a dictator.

What would you think if our President tried to hold an illegal vote to repeal term limits in the USA, against the wishes of Congress and in violation of the Supreme Court ? We'd remove that President from office too.

angryc,
Thanks for the kind words. I try.

As for keeping my equilibrium, I don't always succeed at that, but if I always unloaded on the commenters who were obviously trying to spin (you know the ones I mean), it would probably be counterproductive.

A constitution that criminalizes attempts to amend it is strange, but just off the top of my head I'd say it was to prevent people from doing what Zelaya tried to do. I would of course bow to superior knowledge of what their constitution actually says.

If I were a betting man I'd bet that there will be an attempt to force Z back into office, with Communists behind it and Ob behind them.

Get real, people. Zelaya did not try to amend the constitution legally, he just tried to get a simple ballot to allow him to stay on as president – no legal constitutional amendment. It was Zelaya who attempted a coup.

The Congress voted almost unanimously to impeach him. The speaker of the house ( from his same party) was elected to take over as acting president. Democracy is very much in rule in Honduras.

It would be like Obama pushing for lifting presidential term limits, having it die in Congress then trying to hold a national referendum on the matter. Despite the Supreme Court's ruling that such a referendum is illegal, Obama has his buddies from ACORN distribute and collect ballots then count the vote, with the results becoming law by executive order.

I would hope we'd run him out on a rail, too.

Yeah, damn right, just like we ran Bush and Cheney out of office for multiple war crimes and Constitutional violations.

Other countries aren't exceptional like America.

Rev is using liberal argument #3 – change the subject.

the first question we should ask is how much oil does Honduras have…..

Right. Because that's soooo…….meaningless.

Well King, it does take the focus off our tyrant-backing President by implementing liberal argument #4–Bush is evil.

I feel like arguing with a liberal could be circumvented by just recording "yeah, but what about Bush and Cheney?" into a Yak-Bak

richard cranium1420 aka pdt……why not just invoke your racist screed like you did on the cap and trade thread where you said……."Act like your boy Obama………."

you get points for being a racist here…….don't you?

Liberal argument #2: The race card.

larry…..using the race card?…..you falsly accused me of writing something filthy about Mexicans

you're just a liar

I thought I'd try playing the card too, walter. Your use of it inspired me.

By the by, the way you refer to all hispanics as "Mexicans" is your show (in addition to the hateful filth of course).

No one will forget.

larry, this is what YOU said……"I can't believe you'd be calling anyone a racist after the filth you wrote about Mexicans last week, walter."

you got no right to be calling anybody else creepy

Just put the brakes on the racist filth and we'll get along fine, walt.

I don't know what Larry is talking about. does it bear on the question of the issue of the Honduran constitution?

An interesting question. One wonders why Obama thought he could say "military coup" and everyone would just buy his version of events whole hog. It seems to me our constitutional lawyer President was playing the race/banana republic card.

Rev and walter… you're both against the reinstatment of Zelaya, right? That doesn't mean we as a country have to get involved, but are you fundamentally against his reinstatment?

No comment on the Honduras thing…I don't have enough information.

But on the liberal arguments thing….

At last liberals have more argument cards to play. Conservatives have only one. The answer to all questions…all questions, is "Cut taxes."

That's the conservative answer to all questions…and when there are no questions to be answered, then the conversation is always about who to kill next. So there's that.

Rev,
"cut taxes" is a policy, not an argument.

But in any case, "cut taxes" is a lot better than the Dem policy of "raise taxes." It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out.

Besides, my #1 policy change would be to reduce government spending.

We should be so lucky to have Rev not comment on things he knows nothing about.

Rest assured, if Palin were convicted of any of those ethic violations, he'd have a post up in 5 minutes.

Rev is confused about the Zelaya thing, because he knows Zelaya is a leftist, like the Reverend is. So, when a leftist does something so obviously wrong and dictatorial as Zelaya did, the Rev professes ignorance. That's all it is. Rev really wants to support Zelaya. He just hasn't come up with a rationale yet.