I bet we have a basic agreement on many issues. It's just that we usually talk about the ones on which we don't.

That would make two……with my agreement with you about wasteful spending.

We also have millions of persons working in the insurance industry, many of whom would be out of work with socialized medicine.

And with socialized medicine, the demand for health care would go WAY up, offsetting any savings, and in my mind, leading to health care shortages, and probably rationing, as happens in Canada and England.

But in spite of all that, my mind is not completely closed to the idea of nationalization. The existing problem is serious, so I'd consider all options. We have to change the direction we're on, or those future entitlements are going to sink us.

"It's fine for steel, car, rubber, you-name-it, manufacturing workers to lose everything….jobs, health care, pensions, hope….but it's just too much to tell health insurance companies to eff-off. We protect the very people who cause our most severe domestic problems."

The point was that health insurer's no longer serve a purpose other than parasitical. They are part of the problem, not part of the solution.

The white collar paper and money shuffling boyz in health care didn't give a damn about the loss of manufacturing jobs to Mexico, and now China…..I don't give a damn about them now that they are being recognized as part of the problem.

"Not for profit"…means that layers of blood-sucking advertisers, CEO exuberant pay, dividend payments to already-rich effers, and profits of health insurance company fatties…..should be eliminated. Stripped away. That has nothing to do with paying doctors.

Additionally….I've spoken to dentists and doctors who say that socilaization of health care won't make a bit of difference to them.

In the past arguments, it has always been about saving the profits of a handful of rich people who don't contribute anything to health care except a higher cost. The time has come to change all that.

I must apologize. I heard from several "reliable" sources that Obama was going to lay out the basics of his health care plan during last night's speech. Obviously, he didn't do that at all, so there's no new information to discuss.

These "reliable" sources must think Obama saying "health care should be reformed" is a plan. It isn't. Very disappointing. If Obama's speech had been cut to only substantive matters, it would have been five minutes long instead of forty five minutes long.

As I said in my post, we must do something about health care. It's become quite a problem, but the solution isn't as simple as you think it is. When you say "not-for-profit" health care, what does that mean ? Does it mean doctors have their fees dictated by government ? Hospitals too ? Do you not see how that could have very negative consequences, resulting in far fewer doctors and less health care resources ? Just because we nationalize health care doesn't mean the costs go away, and it would also mean government was determining which medical procedures were allowable, rather than doctors doing so.

One point, Reverend, mostly because I didn't really understand what you were getting at with that last paragraph. A government controlled health care system that would provide for citizens regardless of ability to pay would be paid for by taxpayers like me. And people who don't pay much (if any) taxes, like those on welfare or social security would be provided health care free of charge. So, whether you like it or not, 'free' does enter the equation.

Since I am a Christian, I would love to see the day where no one had to go without basic medical care because they couldn't afford it. My only problem with the concept at all is how is this country going to afford an extra expense when we can't pay for the expenses we already have?

Universal health care…yeah….but not free.

The solution to health care is staring us in the face….and that's why conservative monied powers will never recognize it.

Single payer, not-for-profit, government controlled health care…..is the answer. That's why it will never be allowed.

It's fine for steel, car, rubber, you-name-it, manufacturing workers to lose everything….jobs, health care, pensions, hope….but it's just too much to tell health insurance companies to eff-off. We protect the very people who cause our most severe domestic problems.