Politics And Patriotism
Posted July 1st, 2008 by Da King
Barack Obama gave a speech on patriotism yesterday. I pretty much agreed with every word uttered by Mr. Obama in that speech. It's worth the read. Even though it was a self-serving and calculated speech, as are all of his (he IS a politician, after all), the principles he stated were sound, and quite patriotic. Obama said he would not question anybody's patriotism in this presidential campaign, and he will not sit idly by while anyone questions his. Clever bugger, that Obama, since it is virtually impossible for any sane person to question the patriotism of John McCain, while questions of Obama's associations with anti-american sentiment are rife (Rev. Wright, Father Pfleger, William Ayers, Mrs. Obama, flag pins, and all that). Obama can't win a patriotism contest with John McCain (few could), so he's trying to take that issue off the table.
I don't question Obama's patriotism. I take him at his word, but I do question some of those past associations of his. It's a matter of judgement, not patriotism. When a guy like Obama has a history of being a leftist, I'm a little suspicious of the new centrist Obama who has appeared just in time to win the general election and become the president (with a Democratic majority Congress led by liberals Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi). Obama's tack appears much more strategy than principle. That I do not admire (not that McCain can't be accused of the same tacking into favorable political winds on some issues).
Obama also said it isn't unpatriotic to dissent when you disagree with your government. That is also unquestionably true. Sometimes, dissent is required. I have dissented with some aspects of my government for most of my adult life.
But there is a difference between dissent and undermining your country. There is a difference between dissent and propaganda. There is a difference between dissent and lies. There is a difference between dissent and hate. I wish Obama had drawn some of those distrinctions in his speech, but he did not. As Obama was speaking about how dissent was patriotic, I was thinking of Moveon.org's "General Betray-us" ad, of Hillary Clinton saying it took "the willing suspension of disbelief" to believe Petraeus' testimony about the success of the Surge in Iraq. The "dissenters" had no problem calling Petraeus a liar for their own political gain. I was thinking about how the New York Times has divulged multiple classified U.S. intelligence programs during wartime (they did it again the other day by revealing classified details of the hunt for Bin laden). I was thinking about Seymour Hersch recently revealing classified information about alleged covert cross-border intelligence operations into Iran. I was even thinking about how the left-wing dissenters called American soldiers "baby killers" back during the Vietnam War. Thank goodness the hatemongers dissenters learned not to do that anymore……Except a few of them haven't learned. John Murtha (D-Pa), a former marine himself, accused the Haditha marines of "killing innocent civilians in cold blood" in Iraq before any of them had even been tried, and now 7 of the 8 of Haditha soldiers have been acquitted. I haven't heard any apologies from the Distinguished Gentlemen from Pennsylvania. Dick Durbin compared Guantanomo Bay to Pol Pot and the Nazis.
That stuff isn't really dissent. That stuff is political propaganda designed to undermine the American government during wartime, with the reason being the acquisition of political power. There is nothing patriotic about any of that.
Lastly, I was thinking about outright political horse manure, like the kind general Wesley Clark was slinging about John McCain the other day, in what has to be one of the most tone-deaf displays of political nonsense to date. Clark actually tried to call McCain inexperienced, when McCain is the most experienced candidate to run for president from either party this year. Apparently, irony and hypocrisy don't register with Wes Clark, because the candidate Clark is backing, Barack Obama, is the most inexperienced person ever to get this close to the presidency. Clark actually called McCain "untested and untried", said about McCain that "he hasn’t held executive responsibility" (as opposed to all Obama's executive experience - NONE). Clark even said that McCain's "large squadron in the Navy that he commanded wasn’t a wartime squadron. He hasn’t been there and ordered the bombs to fall". Uh, general Clark, John McCain's plane was SHOT DOWN IN VIETNAM. That's about as "wartime" as you can get. Duh, general. Btw, exactly what military service and experience does Barack Obama have ? That would also be NONE. See just how dumb Wesley Clark is here.
To his credit, Obama disavowed Clark's remarks, and I assume Clark has blown his shot at the vice presidency.
July 1st, 2008 at 12:24 pm
My favorite Obama line was when he said "I wont question anyone else's patriotism in this campaign."
Oh, so you wont challenge John McCain's patriotism, Sen Obama? That is so noble.
July 1st, 2008 at 7:10 pm
Once again, The Empty Suit reveals transparency. Along with his most devoted (or should I say demonic) supporters.
July 1st, 2008 at 7:25 pm
The definitive defintion from one of the talking heads of CNN.
Reps. define patriotism as "my country right or wrong"
Liberals define patriotism as "striving to carry out the principles this country was founded upon". Seems like a no brainer to me the libs are the patriots . Using this defintion surely Obama is the true patriot. Michelle summed it up best Barack wants the world to be as it should be.
July 1st, 2008 at 8:44 pm
Unfortunately I'm not sure Obama's view of 'the world as it should be' closely follows 'the principles this country was founded upon.'
July 1st, 2008 at 10:07 pm
amen larry
July 2nd, 2008 at 5:27 am
Beware of utopian socialists.
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:02 am
"it is virtually impossible for any sane person to question the patriotism of John McCain"
" It's a matter of judgement, not patriotism."
Judgment, seasoned by decades of governmental experience, led McCain to enthusiastically support the worst foreign policy blunder in American history. At best, McCain is a patriot with poor judgment.
"large squadron in the Navy that he commanded wasn’t a wartime squadron. He hasn’t been there and ordered the bombs to fall".
McCain did very poorly academically at the Naval Academy, never became the Admiral he so wanted to become, and, as Clark rightly points out, has never "ordered" bombs to be dropped from a position of executive authority. If serving your country in the military qualifies a person to become president, then which veteran isn't qualified?
I would also point out that the GOP, and it's supporters, have had a change of heart vis-a-vis 2004……when it was perfectly acceptable to savage a Vietnam war hero for political gain. McCain actually had a Swiftboater on stage with him recently.
Same old game of double standard.
July 2nd, 2008 at 10:36 am
Come on Red. Yesterday Clark told all about his own coming home with 4 bullet holes in him. At least he was really in combat in Vietnam and the Dem of 2004 had bona fide scratches listed as Purple Heart wounds. Kerry wasn't swiftboated as Dems like to say these days. The truth came out and he dropped the first of his heralded Purple Heart wounds from his website shortly before the election.
What does McCain's performance an the Academy have to do with his heroism, or lack of it? Seems to me that when many of you lefties swing at someone you use whatever you can find to "sling".
Clark screwed up bad and Obama had to say he just didn't know Clark would say a thing like that. That one was so bad that the Clinton supporter with the shaved head, (you know which Carville I mean) had to make it known that Clark was only answering a direct question. I heard that one without hearing it on a sound bite and thought at the time that Clark sounded much like he did in 2004. He surely never was seriously thinking he could be nominated until the present campaign where we find that anybody can get nominated by Dems.
July 2nd, 2008 at 5:57 pm
I don't get it. Clark didn't say anything wrong. Of course Obama is going to distance himself from such comments, but there was nothing wrong about what he said factually.
Roy, I used to give you credit for espousing reasonable views about third parties, but like your R brethren, you become more and more illogical the closer we get to November. You said:
"He surely never was seriously thinking he could be nominated until the present campaign where we find that anybody can get nominated by Dems."
You said this about Obama…..but, in the past you have admitted that McCain was only the 4th or 5th best R candidate of the bunch! So now, which party will nominate anybody?
And Revs point about 2004 is precisely correct. I would even take it back to 2000, when supergenius Rove insinuated that perhaps Mr. McCain had lost a marble or two when he performed his amazing acts of heroism……such statements, far worse than anything Mr. Clark said, served you bushies so well in 2000. I'm surprised you would take Mr. Clark to task for acting like one of you.
July 3rd, 2008 at 6:00 am
da truth doesn't see anything wrong with what Clark said, and then he calls Roy illogical. Goodness gracious. That is beyond the pale.
Clark, an Obama supporter, referred to McCain as "untested and untried". McCain has military experience, decades of experience in the Senate, and ihas been on the Armed Services Committee for twenty years. Obama has done NONE of that. Clark, say McCain wasn't tested in wartime. MCCAIN'S PLANE WAS SHOT DOWN IN VIETNAM. Clark degrades McCain's experience at the same time he supports the man with NO EXPERIENCE IN MUCH OF ANYTHING, Obama. McCain has been in public service his entire adult life.
If you can't see something wrong in Clark's comments, you just aren't thinking.
July 3rd, 2008 at 6:16 am
Rev,
So, the spin doctor has returned from Utah. Looks like the week of honest dialogue on this blog is over.
Thanks for a laugh right out of the box with that "double standard" comment, since Wes Clark was applying a massive double standard when dissing McCain and praising Obama. I wonder how you missed something so obvious.
Also, it's a little easier to degrade Kerry's background when he met with the enemy during wartime, smeared his fellow soldiers in Congressional hearings, told unconfirmed seconhand lies about his fellow soldiers in his book, put himself up for his own purple hearts for scratches which got him out of 'Nam in 4 months, threw somebody else's medals over the fence in protest, etc, etc.
McCain wouldn't even accept a release from the Hanoi Hilton without his men being released along with him. McCain acted honorably.
It's not surprising you can't see the difference, but I do wish you'd stop trying to fool everyone else with your blather. You do influence a few people that don't know any better.
Btw, McCain condemned the Swiftboaters for going after Kerry. You are wrong about everything, as usual.
July 3rd, 2008 at 1:30 pm
Mr. King,
The flap over Gen. Clark's remarks is a tempest in a teapot. No doubt there is a large amount of fear and danger to overcome in flying bombing missions. However, I think many grunts on the ground who faced the enemy close up, sometimes in hand to hand combat, believe that experience to pale in comparison to theirs. Perhaps Gen. Clarks remarks displays this sentiment.
July 3rd, 2008 at 2:31 pm
King,
Red never did admit to any of those activities by Jon Carry so he wouldn't remember them today. LOL
I think that maybe Clark should have had to pull the trigger or drop a bomb in Vietnam rather than just to order the dropping of bombs as he so proudly did in Bosnia. It was that very thing that I took offense to in his words to Schieffer on Face the Nation.
I loved your finishing sentence to Rev Red.
July 3rd, 2008 at 4:50 pm
frank,
That last comment of yours was just daft. McCain spent 5 1/2 years in the Hanoi Hilton - sick, busted up, isolated, and tortured. I think you'd be real hard pressed to find someone who had a worse time of it.
July 3rd, 2008 at 4:55 pm
This is what I said….
"I would also point out that the GOP, and it's supporters, have had a change of heart vis-a-vis 2004……when it was perfectly acceptable to savage a Vietnam war hero for political gain. McCain actually had a Swiftboater on stage with him recently."
Then you say….
"McCain condemned the Swiftboaters for going after Kerry."
Did not the GOP, and it's supporters, you amongst them, savage Kerry, a decorated war hero? Hell, you did it again in your comment.
Did McCain have a Swiftboater on stage with him a couple days ago?
I remain.
July 3rd, 2008 at 5:06 pm
Roy,
One thing I won't do is degrade the military record of Wesley Clark, as Clark has degraded McCain's. I'll unload on Kerry the fake every day and twice on sundays, but Clark served his country for 34 years, and he was shot four times in Vietnam while leading an infantry battalion. He kept directing his troops after being shot, and received the silver star for that.
That makes Clark's comments about McCain all the more sad. He should know better.