Obama's View Of Hickdom
Posted April 13th, 2008 by Da King
Listen up, midwestern states. Barry O has got your number. Here's your problem, as stated by the Great Orator in San Francisco the other day:
"You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing’s replaced them…And they fell through the Clinton Administration, and the Bush Administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not.
And it’s not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."
There you have it, rednecks. Straight from the elitist mountaintop. Y'all are a bunch of gun-lovin', racist, superstitious, evangelical, bitter hicks. You lost your jobs 25 years ago and just didn't know what to do after that, so you loaded up on guns, god, and chewin' tobacco, and started hating anyone who doesn't look or talk just like you. You are ignorant, small town midwestern flyover state rubes, given to all sorts of crazy notions, helpless without the guidance of your government masters like Barry. Y'all are kind of like those apes in the beginning of the movie 2001: A Space Odyssey. It's nothing short of amazing that you are even toilet-trained, especially when you consider there isn't an $18 billion government potty initiative (must be a failure of leadership).
As one of those aforementioned midwestern hicks, I have a response to the Harvard educated Mr. Obama: Take your condescending stereotype and stick it up your arrogant tailpipe, you pompous piece of prattling pig puke.
Barry Bonehead offered a followup comment on the topic friday night in Indiana:
"They don’t vote on economic issues because they don’t expect anybody’s gonna help them. So people end up, you know, voting on issues like guns … issues like gay marriage … take refuge in their faith and their community and families, things they can count on … so here’s what’s rich. Senator Clinton says, “Well, I don’t think people are bitter in Pennsylvania …” John McCain says, “Oh, how can he say that? How can he say people are bitter?”
Now, being a 2001 apeman, I don't know nuthin' 'bout no E-caw-nuh-mee, but I sure do recognize spin when I hear it (He really DOES think we're that stupid, doesn't he ?) He tried to say Hillary and McCain objected to him calling people "bitter", when that wasn't what they objected to at all. What they both objected to Barry, was your bigoted view of midwestern americans, you schmuck (and McCain actually meant it). They objected to the fact that you don't even give midwesterners enough credit to form their own opinions about issues like the Second Amendment, religion, illegal immigration, or free trade. Instead, midwesterners are "bitter" and "frustrated," especially when they disagree with YOU, right Barry ? If people disagree with Obama's liberal attitudes, why then, they must be racist, they must be zenophobic, they must be psychologically unbalanced ! It's the same bankrupt liberal argument I've been hearing for years. I'm sick to death of politicians like you, Barry. You talk about unity, but all you do is divide people into stereotyped groups, ptting one against the other. And, of course, every one of those aggrieved groups needs help from the government. They need help from Barry. After all, how can a bunch of apes fend for themselves ? We need zookeepers.
FYI - Those jobs that Barry talked about leaving 25 years ago were factory jobs. Barry isn't going to bring any of them back. Not one. It's pols like Barry that caused them all to leave in the first place. Barry thinks you're too stupid to realize that too.
Take a hike, Obama. Too bad. I really would like there to be a black president. That would a be great step for our country. It's just that Barry's not the one. He IS the manchurian candidate (you nailed it, larry d). What's Colin Powell doing these days ? I'd take him over anyone left in the presidential race.
That's all I have to say about this. Now we can all sit back and listen to Obama and friends spin this over the next few days to tell us what he REALLY meant, just like they tried to tell us Obama sat in Jeremiah Wright's black liberation theology church for 20 years and never heard Wright make any racist comments (they really, really think we're that stupid, don't they ?) It will be comical and entertaining, I'm sure.
April 13th, 2008 at 10:50 am
Midwesterners "cling" to religion like Obama did to his—for twenty years and counting.
Midwesterners "cling" to guns for a security object–not because our neighborhoods are overun with punks who will kill for a dollar or just for the thrill of it. Thanks, Gangsta Rappers!
Midwesterners distrust people not like them because people not like them don't understand them. Hmmm…that's different than the norm, and not so anyway–midwesterners are kind, humble people, not so arrogant and assuming as uppity smug peoples would care to imagine them to be—and lumping us all together is as prejudiced as anything else.
Go back to Hawaii, Obama—you ain't ready yet.
April 13th, 2008 at 11:28 am
[...] All Da King's Men wrote an interesting post today on Obama's View Of HickdomHere's a quick excerpt#8221; John McCain says, “Oh, how can he say that?… [...]
April 13th, 2008 at 12:55 pm
King, you managed to talk about the big deal of the day on FoxNews Sunday and sounded just like all of them, even Juan Williams. I loved hearing Tom Daschle trying to defend Barack Hussein so hard on the same show. Wallace took Daschle to the cleaners but then the voters did that to him several years ago, didn't they? It seems to me that Obama has need of some new speech writer if he is going to just repeat whatever they write for him. He got his feet wet in fresh cow dung with this one and Hillary is making sure he doesn't easily clean it off.
As Obama once said, "Words do mean something" and it seems that his supporters (I call supporters, jocks, from my days in athletics) are working overtime trying to explain what he really meant when he "steps in it". What would he likely say if he had to answer the 3:00 am phone call? I wonder if he would just push the nuclear button and then lay back waiting for his "jocks" to explain what he did.
Midwestern humble, you explained Obama's meaning as well as anybody has managed and from the view point of one of those midwestern hicks King talked about. I had an army buddy who was from Ohio and when a couple of college English professors we talked to said "Oh way out west" when he told them where he was from. Me being from western Kansas, I was afraid to tell them that I was from real flyover country as it strained the minds of the Boston College and Boston U profs to imaging anything that far west. We all know that on either coast they only know about the coasts and anything in between seems to them to be like King's apes. It sure is fun to be one of those apes watching Obama continually prove that words do mean something.
April 13th, 2008 at 1:17 pm
Hey King,
Rather than repeat my long winded view on this subject read my comment at ohio politcis.com. If it sounds harsh it is becasue I have spent way too may years dealing everyday with elitists of both the right and left.
April 13th, 2008 at 5:46 pm
King, what exactly did Mr. Obama say that was wrong? You and your men prove everyday that everything he said is absolutely right on target. How do you think Bush got elected, anyway? By exploiting that bitterness, that's how. When in 2004 he thought he might be in trouble, he told you to be afraid that gays would get married. That seemed wot work fine. Obama merely told the truth. Anyone who has read this blog for any amount of time can feel the bitterness that you and your cronies are sending out. You yourself constantly point out in your post how you need your guns and your religion, how you want no immigrants around, how Dems have screwed up trade and how you don't want to be associated or governed by dems. Sounds to me like you guys are pissed because he nailed you. Bitter much? Yes, you are.
April 14th, 2008 at 12:43 am
da truth,
Are you actually reading what I write, or what, because when I read your responses, I feel like you're not even talking to me. It feels more like you're talking to Rush Limbaugh or somebody, some stereotyped Republican image you have in your mind.
Where do you come up with this stuff ? Too funny.
You said, "You yourself constantly point out in your post how you need your guns and your religion, how you want no immigrants around, how Dems have screwed up trade and how you don't want to be associated or governed by dems."
Really ? I CONSTANTLY point out how I need my guns and my religion ? I remember writing one post about Obama's hypocrisy on the Second Amendment, and I don't think I've written one yet about religion.
I also never said I don't want to be associated with Dems (whatever that even means).
I will grant you that I don't want to be governed by Dems, especially since it was taken over by the left wing.
So, who the heck ARE you talking to ? It isn't me.
But it does sound to me like you agree with the same bigoted stereotypes about midwesterners as Obama does. Too bad for you. Are you from the midwest ? If so, you disprove your own stereotype. Duh.
April 14th, 2008 at 3:27 am
When politicians have to deal with foreign leaders, they cannot say things off the cuff, such as the all-inclusive and inherently dismissive remarks that Obama has said about Midwesterners and "their" bitterness and "no wonder" they "cling" to guns, religion, attitudes about people "different" than them.
It takes a balanced sophistication and careful restraint when dealing with other cultures where such supposed "candor" coming from a privileged American or any American, such as Obama, especially, can stir up anti-American passions with such frivolous and dismissive, elitist statements—in fact, such ignorant, wide swathing statements about peoples can indeed provoke WAR.
Imagine Obama, or the careless statements of his wife, in such circumstances:
Talking to our sworn enemies in the Arab world saying aloud, thinking "candor" is truly appeciated —"is it no wonder Arabs cling to their religion, guns, jihad and the mistrust of anyone different than them. They are bitter." Or Michelle Obama saying to a foreign leaders spouse, "yes, I agree, America is a place I have never been proud of, either—you are right Mrs./Mr. so-and-so".
It is not hard to imagine such a scenario nor hard to imagine the firestorm that this could set off in our nation and in our world. What works in Chicago as a community organizer does not translate to working in the wide, wide world.
Obama is not ready to be a world leader yet. He needs more polishing before I can feel confidant in his leadership abilities. Right now, I see those abilities as certain dis-abilities.
April 14th, 2008 at 8:30 am
King,
Yes, I'll admit my bitterness. That is exactly the difference between us. And no, you've never said verbatim that you don't want to be associated with Dems. But that's the proof against your argument that I don't read your blog. I do. That's how I know you don't want anything to do with Dems. The few times in the past you have something evenly on here, I have not been shy about telling you. But those times are few and far between. You also don't come straight out and express your love for all things R; you do it in a roundabout way by saving all of your criticisms for the D party. You say that Bush's "compassionate conservatism" was a sham, yet you tread so lightly around the man I sometimes think you must be related. You can say all you want what you think and what you are, but your blog proves otherwise.
You can say that Obama spoke about bigoted stereotypes and that's fine. But you of all people know that a stereotype has a kernel of truth to it. I don't consider what he said talking about stereotypes. I think he merely cited the anger that many people (you and da men obviously excluded, since you guys apparently aren't bitter, despite the continuing hatred for everything non R) in the Midwest feel and noted the things they turn to since their government stopped listening to them long ago.
I give the guy credit for being honest. Too bad, like every other person trolling for votes, he is pretending now that he didn't say it. Of course, we all know how far being honest gets you when trying to get elected, don't we?
I admit I used too strong language when I said constantly and I apologize for that. Clearly, that comment was intended for da men and not for you and am sorry for that. My error.
April 14th, 2008 at 8:44 am
>>When politicians have to deal with foreign leaders, they cannot say things off the cuff…
Like Bush calling for a crusade.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2001/0919/p12s2-woeu.html
Fox News went to small town PA to find some real folks upset about Obama's remarks. They had a hard time finding some.
April 14th, 2008 at 9:37 am
jimmy james—I am for Hillary–not Bush, not Obama, not McCain. In the event that Obama gets the nom, I will write in Hillary, unless she becomes a candidate I can no longer personally pardon for her mistakes, too.
I do not trust Obama because I find him to be naive yet.
He is NOT good without his speechwriters. When he fades from being "on message", he is awkward—not the kind of leader needed for today's political climate. This is not dress rehearsal for leadership—this is the American Presidency.
Now, lest you think I am not being very Democratic–I do not walk in lock step with anyone.
We cannot trade "cowboy diplomacy" for "homeboy diplomacy"; it will not work in the greater world.
April 14th, 2008 at 10:51 am
da truth,
My distaste for left wing politics is no secret. That's the reason I'm writing this blog. I have no intention of being "even handed" in the sense that I will present both sides as if they are equally valid, because I usually don't believe that. I only have the intention of relating the facts as I see them.
However, I don't think you have to look very hard to find me being critical of Republicans from time to time. Maybe like in the post I wrote right before this one, or the one I'm going to publish later today or possibly tomorrow (It's not quite done yet). Sorry I couldn't figure out how to give equal criticism to Republicans over this post, but this one was pretty much all Obama.
Back on topic, Obama spoke in condescending stereotypes about midwesterners. His comments were elitist and ignorant, and he still hasn't really taken them back as far as I know. It almost seems like Obama doesn't even know what he said that was wrong, which may be the scariest part of all. It wasn't the part where he said we were 'bitter' and 'frustrated'.
April 14th, 2008 at 11:37 am
Obama, like Kerry, has shown himself to be yet another dishonest liberal. He may have dug his presidental grave with that statement.
April 14th, 2008 at 1:01 pm
"They objected to the fact that you don't even give midwesterners enough credit to form their own opinions about issues like the Second Amendment, religion, illegal immigration, or free trade. Instead, midwesterners are "bitter" and "frustrated," especially when they disagree with YOU, right Barry ?"
King, this is incorrect. Obama was explaining why people in the midwest put so much more emphasis on guns, god, and foreigner-hating; not why they have the opinions they do in the first place.
"It's pols like Barry that caused them all to leave in the first place."
No, that's also incorrect. Market forces caused them to leave… with the caveat that politicians on both sides allowed trade be more market-friendly.
Basically, I don't think Obama's assessment is wrong. I'm sorry he sounded mean to you, King, but I think he's right. You might take the view that places like Seattle and Manhattan are liberal, secular, immigrant-loving cities only because they're full of liberal, secular, immigrant-lovers. Or, you might inform that description with the notion that Wall Street businessmen who DON'T have to worry about medical bills piling up probably don't have a need to pray as much as a laid-off factory worker in Canton.
I think this also works very well in explaining strong anti-immigrant sentiment, versus moderate anti-immigrant sentiment, in an area that really doesn't have very many illegal immigrants. Or getting paranoid about gun ownership when in fact gun rights haven't been legitimately challenged for a long time. Or abortion, even though Republicans haven't done much about Roe v. Wade and still don't really have any levers to change abortion policy. Yet you'll find far more discussions in these parts about immigration or abortion than you do about the capital gains tax or utility regulation.
April 14th, 2008 at 1:25 pm
Once again, Osama has shown why he is the man who "inspires" and it appears that he may have spilled his heart in San Fransicko! Who could ask for a more enthusiastic crowd, other than one that encourages illegal immigration and homosexual behavior over that of supporting our marines? The arch nemesis of liberalism has always been common-sense and one's unwavering faith. It then makes perfect sense that the Bay area elitists, of the far-left, look down upon and target small town America and it's resistance to the big city progressive atmosphere. They are stereotyped as backwoods hicks that can't read, but are more adept at operating a shotgun, bible-thumping, and making moonshine. Possibly their bitterness stems from these views that originate from the leftist elitists?
Maybe small town America will have the final laugh. Hillary now has a 20% lead, per American Research poll, and it seems that the bitter people are having their say. I can only hope that, if Osama loses by 15% or more, he has the decency to concede this race and start the healing process.
He needs to quit tearing the party apart and quit being so selfish.
In addition, some may want to tune into Fox tonight. It seems that the pastor was at it again, this time attacking Sean Hannity and B. O'Reilly. They'll be pulling out the big guns.
Eight more days till Operation Chaos continues. Hillary is poundin' Crown and Osama is mixing more Kool-Aid, to keep his constituents tranquilized for a little while longer.
April 14th, 2008 at 1:49 pm
I think what Obama said about southern Penn. population (very similar to southern Ohio) is true if a bit simplistic. He wasn't talking about all Midwesterns, just about what used to be referred to as Appalachians. He was honest in his statement that these people are angry (they have a right to be) as there jobs left their region and gradually eroded the slight hold onto lower paying, but honest work. They do tend to be distrustful of others unlike they are, their guns are not just for protection, but put food on the table along with the food they canned or froze from their gardens and their religion is very precious to them. When they vote they go for the Republicans that LIE and say they will protect gun rights, they are against Gays and against immigrants.
Actually the Republicans use these good people to get into office, but totally ignore them-other than an occasional hand-out.
Sometimes the truth hurts.
April 14th, 2008 at 3:40 pm
King,
He was merely saying how they channel they bitterness. You say that you hack on Rs too, but on the few times you've done it it is quick and flippant, not like the continuous bashing you give the Ds.
Thanks to the posters who backed up the D side (jimmy james, brent, average american).
April 14th, 2008 at 5:55 pm
jimmy james, average american and da truth are all the same person.
April 14th, 2008 at 6:22 pm
Yes that Appalachia vote has carried the republicans. That's why they always play 'Dueling Banjos' when Bush enters the room.
There's some pretty idiotic pop sociology going on here, but I understand it can be fun. Maybe urban blacks like Rev. Wright lash out at whitey because they lost all those agricultural jobs they had back in the 1850s.
April 15th, 2008 at 6:10 am
Appropriate talking when on the WORLD stage is an imperative for a WORLD leader.
You cannot say, for instance, in a rush of candor, "Your breath stinks", and expect to have a comfortable conversation from there on out.
Talking in the moment is important—a world leader cannot go about correcting mistakes they say when the advisors and speechwriters have pointed their foibles out. Too late. Damage done. War started.
April 15th, 2008 at 6:19 am
As a rural "midwesterner", I am offended to be lumped into a handy category by Obama.
I do not own a gun, I do not own a religion, I am not anti-immigrant nor anti- stranger to my own world-view–
I am a miswesterner amongst other many diverse miswesterners with a brain to think with.
April 15th, 2008 at 7:01 am
Quote from article by: Joe Murray; The Bulletin: link here:
http://www.thebulletin.us/site/index.cfm?newsid=19482384&BRD=2737&PAG=461&dept_id=576361&rfi=8
"It's not surprising when they get bitter," Mr. Obama stated. "They cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."
Translation: To the probable Democratic nominee, the difference between San Francisco and Scranton is that the folks in Scranton are toddlers stuck in the terrible twos; they know something is wrong but are not emotionally developed to properly process their anger.
April 15th, 2008 at 7:11 am
What does B. Hussein Obama know about being an American and American traditions?
He belongs back in Indonesia.
April 15th, 2008 at 7:21 am
Still don't understand the implications behind Obama's comments? This "midwest idiot" gets up at least by 4am in order to read before her three jobs commence daily.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/14/opinion/14kristol.html?_r=2&ref=opinion&oref=slogin&oref=slogin
http://www.slate.com/id/2188487/
http://weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/014/988uusqe.asp
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2008/04/13/2008-04-13_snobama_slight_a_bigtime_error.html
http://pundits.thehill.com/2008/04/14/tripping-over-the-silver-tongues/
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/04/obama-allies-av.html
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/04/obama-allies-av.html
http://www.slate.com/blogs/blogs/xxfactor/archive/2008/04/13/the-worst-thing-i-ve-heard-obama-say.aspx
http://www.slate.com/blogs/blogs/xxfactor/archive/2008/04/13/the-worst-thing-i-ve-heard-obama-say.aspx
http://www.time-blog.com/swampland/2008/04/bitter_cling.html
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120813002456911531.html?mod=opinion_main_review_and_outlooks
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/04/14/887059.aspx
April 15th, 2008 at 7:30 am
Still don't understand the implications behind Obama's comments? This "midwest idiot" gets up at least by 4am in order to read before going to work.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/14/opinion/14kristol.html?_r=2&ref=opinion&oref=slogin&oref=slogin
http://www.slate.com/id/2188487/
http://weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/014/988uusqe.asp
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2008/04/13/2008-04-13_snobama_slight_a_bigtime_error.html
http://pundits.thehill.com/2008/04/14/tripping-over-the-silver-tongues/
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/04/obama-allies-av.html
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/04/obama-allies-av.html
http://www.slate.com/blogs/blogs/xxfactor/archive/2008/04/13/the-worst-thing-i-ve-heard-obama-say.aspx
http://www.slate.com/blogs/blogs/xxfactor/archive/2008/04/13/the-worst-thing-i-ve-heard-obama-say.aspx
http://www.time-blog.com/swampland/2008/04/bitter_cling.html
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120813002456911531.html?mod=opinion_main_review_and_outlooks
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/04/14/887059.aspx
April 15th, 2008 at 7:33 am
"What does B. Hussein Obama know about being an American and American traditions?"
This seems like reaching to me. It's one thing if you feel Obama is mistaken about his general impression of the Midwest, but, on its merits, I don't really see how this makes him un-American or whatever. There are plenty of New Yorkers or Californians (like, in San Francisco) who think of the Midwest with more callousness than Obama, yet they are no less "American" than you or I or someone who shoots 'coons and has an unconditional love for the Ford brand.
America has always been a melting pot of diversity and diverse perspectives and I'm quite surprised at how rigidly some people define the "American" label.
April 15th, 2008 at 7:41 am
To all who are defending Obama here, I caution that you are defending a sweeping STEREOTYPE of small town midwesterners. You are defending bigotry.
What I didn't mention in my original rant (and probably should have) was that Obama made his comments about midwesterners in response to being asked why Pennsylvanians weren't voting for him. You see, the only reason Obama can fathom that voters don't choose him is because they are bitter, frustrated, racist, superstitious, backwards, gun-crazed rubes who aren't intelligent enough to recognize the superior ONE when they see him. Obama's comments were the height of elitism, arrogance, and ego. That's why both Democrats and Republicans are jumping all over his statements, as they should.
If Obama had apologized for his comments after they became public, or even used the stock "I misspoke" disclaimer and said he didn't believe those things about small town midwesterners, this would have blown over. The fact that he still exhibits tone deafness about his comments tells me the stereotypes are what he truly believes. Far from being a trait of a unifying candidate, that is a trait of a divisive candidate. The recent Pennsylvania polls, showing Hillary's lead jumping from 5 points a few days ago to 20 points now, illustrate exactly that. It illustrates that PA voters think they got a glimpse of the real man behind the flowery rhetoric, and they didn't like what they saw. They saw a man who disrespects them and denigrates their beliefs. That's what I saw too.
April 15th, 2008 at 10:04 am
" They saw a man who disrespects them and denigrates their beliefs. That's what I saw too."
King, out here in the far west-midwest, that statement means a lot about how we feel about Obama. This isn't the first time he has had his foot in the manure pile and won't be the last. He seems to me to be about as racist as his religious mentor, Rev. Wright, and he is promoting the reverse thing among midwesterners with talk like this.
Somehow wonder how people can talk about the fact that he was talking to people in San Francisco when he said those things without admitting that he was talking to the choir in words that they like to hear. He wouldn't say that in Omaha or Kansas City but out in progressive San Francisco he found an audience that loved to hear that kind of stereotyping.
I guess I just wonder how anyone can sail past elitism like this if he has ever been around the elitists of either coast. Elitism, racism, stereotyping and all the other bits of B H Obama that keep coming out make more and more people on the edges of the cult that seems to be following him flee from the cult. I hope his mouth never stops taking his foot in, at least until he gets that nomination and then runs for president instead of nominee.
April 15th, 2008 at 11:36 am
King: If Obama had apologized for his comments after they became public, or even used the stock "I misspoke" disclaimer and said he didn't believe those things about small town midwesterners, this would have blown over. The fact that he still exhibits tone deafness about his comments tells me the stereotypes are what he truly believes.
This is the same tap dance all over again, as with pastor Disaster. Osama is as slick as politicians come, but sometimes his true feelings get the best of his well-versed speeches and this is only human nature. His stereotype, of the PA people, was intended to apply across rural America and they are not only his views, but that of the liberal elitists abroad. He looked for a rationalization, to explain his weak support in the midwest, and threw the PA residents under the bus. At least his grandma is with loved ones now.
Why are these people so scared to let the public know their thoughts? Why must they always attempt to justify, rather than apologize, when their thoughts are exposed? Liberals will continue to hide beneath the sheets because their ways of thinking will send mainstream running in droves. How can one who panders to the likes of moveon.org, attempt to acquire the support of the mainstream Americans, without talking out of both sides of their mouth?
As much as I despise James Carville, I can appreciate his honesty. He pulls no punches and tells the world how it is. When he compared Bill Richardson to Judas, and refused to back down, it was a breath of fresh air and quite entertaining. Same goes for Geraldine Ferraro.
Instead of running from his beliefs, Osama might be better off just accepting them for face value.
April 15th, 2008 at 11:53 am
Sorry, I'm still having a hard time mustering up fake outrage. I just can't do it and I can't make myself see bigotry when all I see is an accurate assessment–I can't get angry when he's not wrong.
Meh.
Furthermore, I think focusing on how evil Obama is and how 'you just can't say those things goshdarnit' and all this superficial bickering is just perpetuating a broken political dialogue. Obama was actually trying to explain why he has a lot of work to do with lower class white people in a way that's not as shallow as, 'well I'm the scary black guy and they're racist and that's all there is to it.' And look at what this guy gets for actually speaking to people like they're adults. All this does is encourage politicians to keep things at a super-unoffensive-and-unassuming, bland level of debate and meanwhile we all pay the penalty for not getting to talk about real things and what's really happening.
So get off it, King, and stop crucifying people for being politically incorrect. Of course, I'm sure a conservative would have a hard time understanding why that's important.
But don't take my word for it. I'm just another elitist from Zanesville.
April 15th, 2008 at 12:09 pm
"The recent Pennsylvania polls, showing Hillary's lead jumping from 5 points a few days ago to 20 points now, illustrate exactly that. It illustrates that PA voters think they got a glimpse of the real man behind the flowery rhetoric, and they didn't like what they saw. They saw a man who disrespects them and denigrates their beliefs. That's what I saw too."
King, I also generally think it's a bad idea to look to the polls for confirmation of your opinions. That's usually just because for any Issue X, if the polls don't end up confirming your opinion, it's because the media is lying to everyone, or politicans are lying and getting away with it, but NEVER, EVER because the people are actually wrong about Issue X–because that would be elitist, right?
Then there's also the notion that you might not read the polls correctly:
http://www.pollster.com/blogs/poll_quinnipiac_university_pen.php
http://www.nbc10.com/politics/15884424/detail.html?dl=headlineclick
April 15th, 2008 at 2:45 pm
Desperation demands desperate measures.
Obama speaks about race and does it in a refreshingly, honest way.
To establishment and conservative types……it doesn't matter, they oppose him even more.
Obama's numbers hold firm.
Obama speaks truthfully about the reality of cynical voters voting on the basis of tangential issues because those same voters KNOW UNEQUIVOCABLY that Washington D.C. could care less about authentic life issues, so there's no sense believing they will.
To establishment and conservative types…..it doesn't matter, they oppose him even more, even more desperately.
King: You're way off base here. Not only do you not understand what Obama was saying…..it appears you don't want to understand.
April 15th, 2008 at 3:10 pm
The problem with Obama's statement is that, for many, it is true. Many people (midwesterners and others) who have declared that they will never vote for a black man, indicating a fear of those who do not look like them. Many use religion to justify hatred of others based on sexual preference and origin. Obama did not say that ALL midwesterners fell into this category, but MANY do. This is a matter of fact that is only offensive to those who don't want to recognize these flaws in themselves.
And to comment on the Jeremiah Wright ordeal, those who were informed enough to listen to the entire speech realize that Rev. Wright was paraphrasing a white clergyman, not creating hate-speech. We elitists take pride in remaining well-informed on issues, rather than taking the word of any media head as fact.
April 15th, 2008 at 3:28 pm
The bombast and overstatement here is stunning.
[quote Da King] You see, the only reason Obama can fathom that voters don't choose him is because they are bitter, frustrated, racist, superstitious, backwards, gun-crazed rubes who aren't intelligent enough to recognize the superior ONE when they see him. [/quote]
That quote is a useful illustration of the hyperbole of your original post.
Every day that you right wingers spend on this is another day lost in the collapse of the Republican machine. Note that you are *still* fighting in the *frame of reference* that the public thinks the economy is tanking and things are going to "continue to get worse". That is not going to help candidate McCain.
I could think of a few themes you should run with, but I'm not telling
April 15th, 2008 at 6:12 pm
But Brent, the 'well I'm the scary black guy and they're racist and that's all there is to it.' is pretty much the exact argument Obama was making about small town midwesterners. How you can characterize his comments as deeper, when they were about as shallow as possible, is beyond me.
April 15th, 2008 at 6:16 pm
Wow. I'm learning something here. The Obama supporters are consistently saying they ARE smarter and better than the rest of us poor dumb midwestern hicks. Unbelievable, folks. You are actually buying into the elitist stereotype.
Alex, I think your comments were just proven by the other side.
April 15th, 2008 at 6:24 pm
Rev,
It appears to me that your view is –anything that comes out of Obama's mouth is the WORD, and anybody who dissents is a heretic.
I don't think I'm the one with the problem here. You have consistently defended the indefensible when it comes to Barack Obama, to the point of ignoring racist and bigoted stereotypes from him. You're an apostle, a true believer. I hate to break it to you, but BO doesn't walk on water.
April 15th, 2008 at 6:27 pm
Tom,
In case you haven't noticed, it isn't just right wingers talking about this. Not even close.
And don't worry, I'll be talking plenty about the economy, and McCain.
April 15th, 2008 at 8:01 pm
The dem party is rife with pseudo-intellectual elitism. It's their dual post-narrative meme.
April 15th, 2008 at 8:24 pm
"the 'well I'm the scary black guy and they're racist and that's all there is to it.' is pretty much the exact argument Obama was making about small town midwesterners."
Really? Wow, it's like you're not reading anything we're saying. It is not the same thing, King. Your stubbornness is mind-boggling. He's explains a pretty straight-forward psychological effect–WITHOUT JUDGING THEM FOR IT(!!)–and you go into rage mode and say he's calling midwesterners racist. Worse still, you're perpetuating the stereotype you get so angry about by not debating his point on its merits but choosing to do nothing but get indignant and emotional.
This is, like I said earlier, going to do nothing but encourage politicians to treat us like sensitive five-year-olds.
People like you are hurting America. Stop.
As a midwesterner, I'm embarrassed.
April 16th, 2008 at 7:11 am
I would much rather my politicians treat me like a psychological patient than a five year old.
Obama has no basis for tying gun rights and religion to economic conditions, but finding economic causes for cultural 'symptoms' is pretty much what classic Marxism is all about, I guess. It's simplistic and naive, the kind of theory you'd see in a third year college paper.
April 16th, 2008 at 7:44 am
Brent,
I hear what you're saying. I just don't buy it for one second as an explanation for what Obama said, which was "…And it’s not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." Obama said this in response to being asked why Pennsylvanians weren't voting for him over Hillary. That context is also important here.
Did you hear the "antipathy to people who aren't like them" part ? How about the "anti-immigrant sentiment" part ? Those are examples of Obama saying in so many words "they won't vote for me because I'm the black guy, the person different from them." That's utter hogwash. Let's not forget that it was the lily-white midwestern Iowa voters who put Obama on the political map to begin with. Now, all of a sudden when voters are changing their minds in Pennsylvania and prefer someone else, it's some big racist psychological effect based upon bitterness, frustration, and fear of the 'other' ? That's elitist and arrogant bull.
Regarding guns and religion: the Second Amendment has been around for a long, long time, way before Obama arrived on the scene. Ditto for religion. Neither one has anything to do with bitterness or frustration with the government, current economic conditions, or even Obama himself. This country was founded with gun rights and freedom of religion. I can't believe you buy into Obama's claptrap. It's like Obama thinks the whole world revolves around him, that history started the day he began campaigning for president, and any rejection of him must be indicative of some deep-seated psychological flaw. I mean, you've got to be kidding me. Obama takes legitimate issues like gun rights and illegal immigration and reduces them into some negative condescending psychological stereotype. It's as insulting as can be.
But you are right about one thing. I did have an emotional response to Barack Obama's comments about small town midwesterners. I apologize for the rant. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go to the weekly meeting of my Racist Gun Nuts For Jesus club.
April 16th, 2008 at 7:50 am
larry: Dishonesty has been the hallmark of conservatives under pressure for a long time. Yes, the conservative house has collapsed. That's no reason to simply be all dishonest about what the next president said.
It wasn't Marxist and it wasn't elitist. In context it's crystal clear.
Some voters don't trust government promises anymore because of government's failures to address real life issues in the past.
Those voters turn to other issues to determine who to vote for in an election. Some of those issues turned to are religion, guns, immigration, etc.
All true.
And the pseudo-intellectual elitism part….nothing pseudo about it……conservatives are the anti-science, anti-empirical data party…..elitism is a silver spooned, Ivy Leaguer, pretending to be a rancher clearing brush….that's what elitism looks like.
Points on the dual post-narrative meme, though.
April 16th, 2008 at 8:04 am
midwestern humble mumble,
A couple of your posts (actually the same post twice) were caught by the spam software yesterday. I de-spammed them and they appear on this thread now. I suspect the reason is because of the many links that were included in your post, but I'm just speculating. Sorry for the delay.
April 16th, 2008 at 9:46 am
King,
Here's a hoot.
B. Hussein Obama is back to wearing an american flag lapel pin.
It seems BO's handlers realize their man's patriotism is under serious question so they thought they'd try to, as the say goes, "put lipstick on this pig" and try to sell him as legit.
I suppose there are idiots out there who will buy this.
April 16th, 2008 at 9:54 am
The more I think of it the more Marxist it seems, Reverend. Real 'opiate of the masses' stuff that Marxist thinkers started to reject in the early 20th century and that even brighter college students see as overly simplistic in its blind reliance on economic determinism.
But it may have been the the way Obama's father figure saw the world, according to snippets of autobiography I've seen, and it can also be seen in his church's mission statement. No matter how many times his supporters will say these stories haven't got legs, there's getting to be an awful lot of anecdotal evidence piling up.
April 16th, 2008 at 10:17 am
No, no, no. I said this earlier and it didn't get through or you refuse to hear it: the point isn't that economic hardship itself CAUSES people to be pro-gun rights, pro-all things Jesus, anti-foreigner; it's that economic hardship amplifies those already existing sentiments. Of course losing your job doesn't make you a Christian. Losing your job makes you turn to your faith even more. It doesn't cause you to be against trade- it causes you to be against trade that much more. It also makes you turn to other culture war hot-button issues out of cynicism for government action, like Rev astutely noted. But Obama isn't saying that's the reason in and of itself for taking those positions in the first place. It does, however, explain why middle and lower class people vote for politicians whose economic policies benefit upper class voters more than themselves.
Now even if you think all of that is inaccurate (I think it is and I've had a ton of conversations with many people about this same theory without getting a gun pulled on me for being a bigot), I have a really, really hard time understanding why the heck this assessment is so egregiously wrong that it warrants screaming to the heavens how evil Mr. Obama is.
April 16th, 2008 at 10:36 am
Ghost of Vince Foster proves that the culture of ignorance and fear exists. There are lots of Americans who will continue to support this kind of ridiculous fear of "outsiders." We will either perpetuate it or begin to see past it.
April 16th, 2008 at 3:57 pm
Someone should really tell Pennsylvania to muster up the requisite outrage, because I'm not seeing where this has made any impact yet:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/pa/pennsylvania_democratic_primary-240.html
Maybe they just need to be told a few more times how to feel about an elitist who judges them for how they feel about things.
April 16th, 2008 at 4:38 pm
larry: You've gone ahead and jumped into a big pile of conspiracy mindedness there my buddy. I suppose it's wishful thinking on your part.
Brent: None of this warrants as you put it, "screaming to the heavens". That's how we can tell that it's mostly all bogus. The mighty powers of the establishment never thought Obama could get this far….now they're starting to panic. The bad news is…..the panic is just getting started. The ugliness and the frenzy surrounding that trumped up ugliness will only intensify the closer we get to November.
Chari M: Spot on.
April 16th, 2008 at 7:11 pm
Chari M mumbles about the fear of the "outsiders" when it is rather the legitimate disgust of the cancer within society which is epitomized by B. Hussein Obama and his ilk of American-haters that is the problem..
April 16th, 2008 at 7:49 pm
I didn't say anything about a conspiracy, Reverend. It's not like Marxism isn't a commonly discussed ideology and doesn't have followers among the self-anointed intelligentsia.
It's not unlikely–and is more probably likely–that someone with Barack's background would believe in some Marxist tenets. It seems quite plain to me in his armchair analysis.
Unless one sees Marxist theory along the lines of devil worship, there's nothing beyond the pale or conspiracy related in any of that.
April 17th, 2008 at 5:48 am
"It's not unlikely–and is more probably likely–that someone with Barack's background would believe in some Marxist tenets"
If you're saying B. Husseiun Obama was a red diaper baby, you're basically correct.
And BO's affirmative action entry and training in the Ivy Leagure only further indoctrinate him in the philosophy of the left.
April 17th, 2008 at 11:36 am
larry: No, you didn't say anything about conspiracy…..I did.
Now I know conservatives are running scared. I know that. I've repeatedly warned that it would come to this.
But it ain't workin'. The Bush/Rove years have led to a more savvy electorate. That's about the only good thing to come out of the last 8 years. Americans were a tad behind the Knee Pad tactics curve for a few years. Now they're catching up.
So please….spout Marxist nonsense, elitism, smears by association, bowling styles and whatever else Sean and Rush find as they're diving into their backyard cesspools each morning…..because it isn't going to work.
Americans, at least enough to defeat McCain, have had enough of the BS.
April 17th, 2008 at 1:29 pm
Knee Padders: One of Reverend Red's favorite names for Republicans, period. With all this twisting and turning of the words that Obama did, indeed, speak as anything other than what they said makes me wonder who the knee padders really are. It seems to me that the "believers" are spending a huge amount of time trying to convince all of us that "He didn't say those words, at all".
Obama himself impressed me way back there when he said that words do have meaning. If he didn't want anyone to mis-interpret his words maybe he should have picked them more carefully. It has been mentioned here all along that he really does have a charismatic way when he is speaking the words of his speech writers but when he starts answering questions his mask slips just a bit many times and quite a bit others. For those of you who haven't taken the opportunity to read the first of the suggested articles on the list the words of Bill Kristol do really point out what Obama did out in San Frannanland. He said what his listeners wanted to hear never thinking that they are very elitist in their liberalism. He got his foot in his mouth and hasn't yet managed to apologize and go on so the thing continues down the road with the Obama Knee Padders doing their level best to say that he did not say those words. I love it and hope it keeps legs clear up to the time that he becomes the nominee of the Democrat Party.
The mentions of Marxism here always get a rise out of Reverend Red. Do any of you other than King know why I call the good Reverend, Red, and have for a very long time. Yep, it is the way he defends anything that smacks of Marxism.
April 17th, 2008 at 2:40 pm
Vince,
Since Obama is wearing his american flag pin now, and since I'm a simple-minded superstitious midwestern hick, I guess that means I have to change up and vote for Obama now, since he's making a shallow patriotic gesture that a wedge issue loving rube like me just can't resist, lol.
April 17th, 2008 at 5:16 pm
Yes, King, that is how B. Hussein Obama looks at you and all the rest of us 'un-enlighten' ones. It's seems BO's affirmative action Ivy League training went to his head. He actually thinks he know things — like economics, foreign affaires, etc.
As to the lapel pin, given his druthers, I'm sure Obama would rather be wearing one of the United Nations or 'black liberation' rather than an American flag. Hey, that's who B. Hussein Obama is.
It's amazing that anyone would be fooled by a fraud like BO. His supporters, those pathetic Kool-Aid drinkers have been so brainwashed in multiculturalism that they can't reason straight when it comes to characters like BO and his side-kick, Jerry Wright.
April 18th, 2008 at 5:57 am
Vince,
I was astounded during the last debate, when Obama said he understood how people were offended by his small town midwestern stereotypes, but then he proceeded to repeat the same type of comments all over again. I mean, Obama's people had to have him prepared to answer THAT question, and he still blew it. Therefore, I agree with you, that is how Obama really feels.
Regarding the american flag pin, Obama said that was an empty gesture following 9/11 (which makes me wonder about him right there). If it was an empty gesture then, what has changed ? It wouldn't be Barack's electability, would it ? So, 9/11 wasn't enough for Obama to wear a badge of support for his country, but Obama losing the election, well now, THAT'S important enough for him to put the flag pin on his lapel.
April 18th, 2008 at 7:34 am
I agree with Obama that the flag pin became something of an empty gesture, but I'm not sure an American politician pointedly deciding not to wear one could be characterized that way.
What's the mindset behind pointing out an empty gesture and refusing to go along even if it can hurt a candidate politically? It almost seems like contempt.
April 18th, 2008 at 10:20 am
Larry d., I see Obama starting to wear the flag lapel pin as nothing other than contempt. He has talked about how empty it is to do so and now is trying to save thousands or millions of voters that are simple enough as to come back to the fold by him doing so. If that isn't elitist contempt I just don't see what it is. If he was so sure it doesn't seem logical that he would put his pin back on if he didn't think that his mask had slipped and people were seeing him as he really is. A man has to do what he thinks he has to do to get votes and he has been very good at doing just that. Promise the world and enough people will be fooled that you may well win that world for yourself.
April 19th, 2008 at 9:30 am
Do you guys know if there's any truth to the rumor that Obama is going to start wearing an 'I love small town rednecks' badge ?
April 19th, 2008 at 7:43 pm
That is the first I have heard of that rumor, King, but it would certainly be Obamalike since he is willing to say or do anything that may win him a vote or two. I'll bet I could tell him a place to buy that badge but it wouldn't be a source that he would like to buy anything from. LOL