Marriage is currently a legal AND religious institution. Or at least, it's understood that way. Marriage should be ONLY a legal institution. A civil contract between people. That's all it is to the state anyway. If folks who are legally married want to have a religious ceremony…fine….but the religious ceremony should not be regarded as proof or evidence of "marriage".

"In God We Trust" is similar in that it violates the separation clause by placing religious expression on our money, where it doesn't belong.

Whenever religion and state merge…as has been done in marriage, faith based initiatives, prayers at government functions, etc…..there is always a mess as a result.

That would be the reason why those Founders NEVER made that mistake in the Constitution.

And I think what you call the Republicans "bigoted, hateful position against gays" is really just a disapproval of gay marriage. Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't "marriage" been defined as being between a man and a woman for pretty much the entire history of the civilization of mankind ???

And it isn't just Republicans who don't want gay marriage. It was voted down in about 19 states in 2004. That indicates the majority of people are against it. It's an idea whose time hasn't yet arrived.

Personally, I don't care if gays get married. It's fine with me, though I wouldn't force a church to marry them if it went against that church's beliefs.

RoySold is a lying slanderer when he says that Nancy Pelosi supports NAMBLA. Of course, most of what he writes on this "blog" is hardly worth a look.

The Republican party has driven a double digit percentage of the electorate out of the party by adopting a bigoted, hateful position against gays. We are seeing a schism in the GOP play out in the Hucklebee/McCain matchup. McCain always hated Falwell, and those "religious" rightwingers stuck it to McCain in South Carolina in 2000. McCain has tried to suck up to them, but they still hate him. Republicans may claim they don't like McCain because he stopped one of the $10 Trillion in tax cuts by Bush. The real reason is the "religious schism".

Jesus is love.

NAMBLA agrees.

Homosexuality is not perverted. Perverted is shoving a glo-stick up the rectum of a Moslem captive.

"Any kind of love is alright"

When you write, "It's true there was no gay marriage in Ohio, but …" you are in error, Amigo.

The fact is there were hundreds of thousand — no, millions — of gay marriages in Ohio prior to 2004.

These were marriages, both civil & religious, between men and women whose marriage ceremonies, in most cases, were happy, gay, and joyful affaires.

What there might not have been were any homosexual marriages. Now that's a different story.

Hijaking the word "gay" and using it in place of "homosexual" was part of a deliberate plan by homosexual activists to try and make their perverted lifestyle appear normal to the public at large. And, unfortuantely, to a great extent, it has succeeded.

But this turns reality upside down. Clinical studies show that, when compared to the normal population, homosexuals have 1) shorter life spans, 2) more diseases, 3) more emotional/mental problems. If anything, the homosexual community is anything but "gay" even though statistics indicate that the average homosexual has greater wealth than the aveage for the normal population. (I guess not having kids helps.)

In any event, using the word "gay" in place of homosexual is Orwellian. The use of such a tactic is so typical of the Left; don't fall for it.

That's the liberal spin, but it's not accurate. It's true there was no gay marriage in Ohio, but that was beside the point. The point was that Massachusetts legalized gay marriage in november of 2003, and gay marriage advocates were pushing for it all over the country. Those events are what put the gay marriage issue on the national stage, and triggered citizen groups to launch petitions against it in many states, which resulted in gay marriage being on the ballot in 19 states (I think it was 19) in 2004, including Ohio. Gay marriage was voted down in all 19 states.

Good.

And realize that many Dims voted for it, too.

Still didn't answer my questions, though. How many gay marriages had there been in Ohio prior to 2004? The answer: none…..much like your ability to reason.

The DOM proposition was important not only to stop homosexuals from perverting marriage but also to send a message that such a perversion as same-sex marriage will not be tolerated in Ohio.

An ounce of pervention is worth a pound of cure.

And can you explain to me about your do-over comment? I never said anything of the sort. Again, you put words in my mouth. I said the legislation did nothing. It was worthless. Please respond to what I say, not what you think it is I must mean since I admit to being a lefty.

And interesting points about Hamilton, but you failed to mention how flexible he thought the Constitution was and how he favored using the federal government to strengthen the economy. Important points.

Thanks, again, for this topic and I do wish we could have discussed what you wrote about instead of just modern liberal-conservative tripe.

I see that you believe in as soon as possible do overs if your side doesn't win. You don't really believe that way, you are just arguing for the sake of argument. Am I wrong?

Regarding Bush centralizing executive power, known as the 'unitary executive' theory, I have a few questions for you.

If Bush is doing as you say, regarding FISA, why did CONGRESS just approve the new wiretap laws, and for that matter, why did they HAVE to approve them, if Bush is such a dictator ? A dictator doesn't ask for permission. Also, why did Bush go to Congress for approval for both the Afghanistan and Iraq wars ? Bill Clinton didn't go to Congress for Bosnia, or Operation Echelon, for example. Was Clinton a dictator also ?

I would suggest to you that Bush went around FISA on only a few occasions, with those being for reasons of national security and time being critical. The Bush admin was granted more FISA warrants than any previous administration, so they WERE using the court.

As for those wild and unsupported allegations that Bush was fixing presidential elections by spying, which was actually the NSA spying…Do you really think everybody in the NSA would stand by and say nothing if Bush was doing that ? I don't think so. Sounds like your author took trip to crazytown.

It is just hilarious to me that with all these crazy theories about why Bush did this or did that, the most obvious reason always eludes the left, which is – Bush wanted to stop terrorist attacks on the USA following 9/11. That should be pretty easy to understand, I'd think.

"Ah yes. Just the mention that the State of Ohio voted overwhelmingly to amendmend its constitution to protect against homosexual marriage is considered "bashing." Perhaps it seems that way at least to the paranoid mind.

But I'll tell you what. That vote to defend marriage was a few long years ago. A lot could have changed since then. So let's do it all over again, preferably this November. Whatta say, Chief?

This time you can have B. Hussein Obama or Comrade Hillary come and campaign to repeal the DOM proposition. What could be more fair; you essentially get a do-over and you to have heavy-weight Dims come to help you out — or would they???"

Wow. Insightful. Let me ask you this, though, and perhaps you can educate me: How many gay marriages had their been in Ohio prior to 2004?

Once you answer that one, tell me again why it was such an important piece of legislation. I can't wait to hear.

The GOP will struggle to keep Ralph Regula's district Republican. Mayor Don Plusquellic wants to privatize the Akron sewer system. There are two stories. What is the mayor's motive? Who will gain? Is this a question of power?

Ah yes. Just the mention that the State of Ohio voted overwhelmingly to amendmend its constitution to protect against homosexual marriage is considered "bashing." Perhaps it seems that way at least to the paranoid mind.

But I'll tell you what. That vote to defend marriage was a few long years ago. A lot could have changed since then. So let's do it all over again, preferably this November. Whatta say, Chief?

This time you can have B. Hussein Obama or Comrade Hillary come and campaign to repeal the DOM proposition. What could be more fair; you essentially get a do-over and you to have heavy-weight Dims come to help you out — or would they???
.

Paul Craig Roberts – A Gestapo Administration

January 2, 2006
http://www.counterpunch.org/roberts01022006.html

…excerpt…
Why would President Bush ignore the law and the FISA court? It is certainly not because the court in its three decades of existence was uncooperative. According to attorney Martin Garbus (New York Observer, 12-28-05), the secret court has issued more warrants than all federal district judges combined, only once denying a warrant.
…snip…
One reason is that the Bush administration is being used to concentrate power in the executive. The old conservative movement, which honors the separation of powers, has been swept away. Its place has been taken by a neoconservative movement that worships executive power.

The other reason is that the Bush administration could not go to the FISA secret court for warrants because it was not spying for legitimate reasons and, therefore, had to keep the court in the dark about its activities.

What might these illegitimate reasons be? Could it be that the Bush administration used the spy apparatus of the US government in order to influence the outcome of the presidential election?

Could we attribute the feebleness of the Democrats as an opposition party to information obtained through illegal spying that would subject them to blackmail?
…snip…
Paul Craig Roberts has held a number of academic appointments and has contributed to numerous scholarly publications. He served as Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan administration. His graduate economics education was at the University of Virginia, the University of California at Berkeley, and Oxford University. He is coauthor of The Tyranny of Good Intentions.

I have to say one terrific thing about the ABJ and ohio.com. Never once have they told me what I should or shouldn't write about or tried to censor me. Kudos to them for that.

And thanks for the suggestions, but I think I'll decide what I write about, instead of letting you decide for me.

That's the ticket.