And let's face it, the Democrats historically have proven themselves to be the safe haven for the oppressed and budge on certain social issues more generously than the Republicans. So in that way, they are more progressive, and what might be characterized as excessive government spending (the typical gripe against Democrats) can be overlooked.

I don't want a fish, I want to be taught how to fish. I don't want for anyone to tell me I don't deserve to be taught how to fish. Republicans tend to do that with people of whom they don't approve.

Hey, fellows, I have had annual raises in Social Security payments for over 12 years. They raise us enough for us to pay the raised payments on Medicare that we pay. By the time you figure in that one payment and inflation we old people surely aren't gaining much annually and supposedly that is what the raise if supposed to do for us.

I have two sons who get annual or semi-annual raises in wages but don't seem to gain much from them. They work for a family owned business that is expanding every day, and that keeps the employers strapped when they try to keep their employees satisfied and keep expanding at the same time. I am not sure how they manage to keep on getting bigger all the time with all the government regulation they have to contend with. The corporation has gone from ownership of two large local farm equipment locations to ownership of 6 of these things in 3 years. They are managing to keep loyalty among their original employees but some of the new ones don't even wait around to see how things go, but just quit and go on. They keep their original employees around because they pay over $300 of the monthly cost of health insurance and have a great 401k arrangement with them. All of their employees find themselves advancing in the real world of economic capability if they really sit back and look at what is happening.

I don't get to see much that you people from urbanized areas do as far as poverty is concerned because our poverty isn't as bad as it could be since it costs less to live and jobs are easier to come by here, but I do think that less government would be the best answer to the problem of elevating people economically.

Hmmm. Back into the twilight zone. How do I respond to a fictitious question ?

I don't. On what planet is it that workers haven't received any raises since 1973 ? I've received tons of them personally. So has everyone else I know, except those that don't work. Plus, Democrats have run congress for 22 of those 34 years since 1973, so why is your perception of blame only directed at conservatives ?

Rev, underlying all your rhetoric seems to be the backasswards view that it is the government, through heavy taxation and redistribution, that creates prosperity, rather than the private sector doing it through job and wealth creation, via free enterprise. I've never heard a more wrong idea in my entire life. I think you literally have to be insane to believe it, or at least brainwashed beyond the capacity for rational thought.

If you want my ideology, here it is: The object of our society should not be to fill the government coffers to give government bureaucrats more and more power over our lives, a responsibility which they have proven time and time again they can't manage. This is america, purportedly the land of the free. The object of our society should be the welfare of our citizens. Having half of our citizens dependent on a meager government subsistence for survival, while the other half give half their wages to that same government to support it is inane. It is a tribute to the wondrous powers of our semi-free market economy that we've been able to hold out with such a system even this long, but it cannot stand. $9 trillion in debt says it can't. The government is inept. Neither the Democrats nor the Republicans have been doing it right, but the Democrats are dead wrong philosophically, especially with the hard left turn they have taken from the 60's forward. The Republicans mouth some of the correct philosophy, but they often don't do what they say they will do, for a number of reasons that are too long for me to go into now. What I think we should do, you would categorize as nuts. We should dramatically lower taxes, cut the size of the federal government by at least half, stop taxing business net income, and institute only a windfall profits penalty tax that would induce business to hire more workers, pay better wages, and/or reduce the prices of products. It is a legitimate role of government to regulate business, and they should in regards to ensuring that business doesn't trample over citizens for self-enrichment, but that regulation shouldn't be for the purpose of transferring power to the government instead, as it is now. It should be for the betterment of the citizens.

People in hell believe someone is bringing them ice water too.

What you say may be true in this regard: Republicans may indeed "believe" what you say….but clue me in on how the last number of years of economic growth has led to more people in poverty and more hollowing out of the middle class. How in the hell did all that happen? Did the little people's boats have holes in them?

You believe in some ideology that is simply fictitious.

Has the economy grown since 1973? Has it? Hell yes it has. Why then, haven't workers received any raises in the last 34 years?