There has been an uptick in Anderson Varejao rumors bouncing around the last couple of days. Today, ESPN’s Chad Ford floated one involving the Golden State Warriors. Earlier this week, Beacon Journal columnist Patrick McManamon wrote an excellent column summing up Varejao’s situation.
So with all that out there, let me tell you what I know about what has been going on.
–The Cavs have had trade talks with at least five teams about Varejao. But these talks have three sides, the Cavs, the potential trading partner and Varejao’s agent, Dan Fegan. Because Andy has to give permission to be traded before Dec. 5 (a stipulation when a player has an offer sheet matched by his team), he must be in the loop before a deal can be done. This permission will be given (he cannot be traded to the Bobcats under any circumstances until Dec.) only if Fegan likes the chances of Varejao getting big minutes and having an important role at his new destination. The reason is this is Varejao’s contract year essentially and a big season would mean a chance at the big deal Andy has wanted for a year. I also know that at least one trading partner has already been told “no” by Fegan. I do not know which team, but keep in mind as the Cavs are linked to the Milwaukee Bucks in trade rumors that Fegan also represents Yi Jianlian and probably would not like Varejao and Yi fighting for minutes with one another.
–Because of all these moving parts — there are three different sides able to pitch trades — any deal involving Varejao will be difficult to pull off right now. The Cavs do not have to trade him and they may wait and let the Dec. 5 deadline pass so they have more freedom. But obviously there is a market for Varejao and with the draft coming up, there’s an uptick in trying to get things done.
–The Cavs were pleased with how professionally Andy handled playing with Ben Wallace and even went to him and thanked him at the end of the season. But it is clear to both sides that Andy was not happy yielding crunch time minutes to Wallace and that is an issue that may become problematic next season when Varejao starts feeling the heat of playing another contract. With that in mind and the fear of losing Andy for nothing and/or going another 15 rounds with Fegan next summer, it is easy to see why the Cavs are open to trading their only big man under 30.
–There are a number of players the Cavs like in this draft. If anything, they are looking to move up in the draft or get a second pick instead of trading out as rumors have suggested. In addition, unless there is another rock solid plan in place, it is doubtful the Cavs would only trade Varejao unless they were getting another big man in return. It is questionable whether they can get an immediately contributing big with the 19th pick and losing Varejao would leave a huge hole because he is the team’s only legit backup center.
–I’ll have more on the draft over the weekend or early next week.
{ 6 trackbacks }
{ 264 comments… read them below or add one }
← Previous Comments
larry, the obvious caveat of the hypo was that you had to take the franchise killing fan reaction out of the equation. We were just evaluating talent and contract status. In terms of your analysis, Oden wasn’t really the key to the deal for me. I’m not so sure any one of those guys is so much more important than the other. I just look at it as a chance to get 3 guys who you almost know are going to be solid pros and at least 2 of the 3 have a legit chance to be stars.
I’d say thanks but no-thanks to the bobcats. I’d take Okefor for the right money but you’re not going to get him for that. As much as we need to get younger up front, acquiring more brittle bodies with limited offensive skills isn’t the best way to go about it.
Is anyone still in here? I just watched the Cavs’ Summer league Opener against the Knicks and had a few thoughts….
JJ Hickson looked pretty good today. He was very aggressive going to the basket, hit a couple mid range shots, and made a couple decent moves in the post. His defense was solid, oo. It’s only one summer league game, but honestly, he doesn’t look like a D-League player at all. I was impressed that he had variety to his game. He looks NBA ready. it will be interesting to see him play against bigger defenses, but he his very athletic and doesn’t play undersized at all.
Darnell Jackson on the other hand, needs some work. Defensively and on the boards he was okay, but seems to have a pretty raw offensive repertoire – and bad hands. Heading to the D-League.
Robert Traylor looked great in the first half, and ran out of gas. Surprise! He looks like he’s in better shape, but still not conditioned enough. I miss the beard. That being said, I bet he plays his way back into the NBA this year, if not with the Cavs, then somewhere else. He’s still got soft hands, passes well, and can score around the basket.
The other Cavs from last year, Billy Thomas and Lance Allred, looked exactly the same – meaning they did nothing to impress.
Clay Tucker looked pretty decent, but it’s hard for me to imagine any of the guards from this squad making the team. That being said, he was aggressive and creative going to the basket and hit jump shots. He seems like he has a 10 day contract as an injury replacement in his not too distant future.
Other players in the game hit a shot here, made a drive there, but didn’t really do anything to stand out.
Anybody else watch the game & care to share some thoughts?
Thanks for the update Chuck. I liked the Hickson pick and hope he can consistently produce this summer. Hopefully, Tractor can be at least an end of the bench guy and between the two the Cavs will feel comfortable packaging Varejao in a trade.
A sad state of affairs, though, when hopes ride on a journeyman coming back from heart surgery.
larry – i highly doubt anyone’s hopes ride on tractor traylor. id bet that he wont be playing for the cavs at all this season and his inclusion on the roster was more of a favor on some level. tractor can get his foot back in the door, see where he stands against potential nba competition and have a tryout for other teams in the league that can use a backup PF/C. regardless, hes probably a better backup than dwayne jones was.
Joe – I have my doubts that Traylor can make the team, too – but like you, I’d rather see him than Dwayne Jones. Hickson had a huge dunk last night, too.
All the press was for Gallinari’s Knicks debut – but Hickson was easily the best player on the court. He tweeked his ankle a little, and played through it after getting it re-taped, which I thought was a good sign. I look forward to watching Wednesday’s game to see if he can follow it up, but I’m optimistic he already brings more to the table than Dwayne Jones or Cedric Simmons did.
I found it hugely annoying that it was a MSG Network broadcast, they did nothing but focus on the Knicks players and interview Quentin Richardson and Starbury (nice head tattoo, dude!). They didn’t even bother to learn most of the Cleveland players names, which really sucked, ‘cuz I sure couldn’t tell a Clay Tucker from a Michael Greene when the game started. It’s especially annoying since all the other games were done by the NBATV combo, Rick Kamla and Snapper Jones, who at know all the players and don’t have a stake in either team – for the basketball junkie, they do a pretty good summer league game.
I think it’s incredible that the Clippers got Marcus Camby, who would be the second-best player if he played for the Cavs, for literally nothing. All they have to do is exchange their second-round pick for the Nuggets’ 2010 second-round pick if the Clippers will pick earlier in 2010. Whoopie.
Ferry again diligently working the phones. Seriously, is that giant douchebag taking another summer off?
Ferry’s got the Tractor coming back from heart surgery, alan. In any case, Camby blocks too many shots to fit into the Cavs’ scheme.
from what i understand, the trade couldnt have worked with the cavs because denver did not want to bring on any contracts. the only way cleveland (or any other team really) could have made that trade would have been to trade contract for contract at an equal dollar value (or whatever the percentage is in accordance with NBA rules). the clippers were far enough under the salary cap to allow them to take on the contract without having to give up an equal value contract(s) in return. i could be wrong and i am sure Alan T will sarcastically correct me if so.
That’s right, joe, but alan never lets things like “facts” or “reason” get in the the way of Ferry bashing. The Clippers were way under the cap because they had a crap team that lost it’s best two players. Otherwise, they can’t make that deal. Thankfully, we weren’t in their position.
alan t – to answer your question, looks like ferry hasnt taken the summer off as he has signed gibson to a new contract. let the over-sarcastic comments to downplay the signing begin! lol
Yes, yes, Elton Brand, Marcus Camby… all plausible options when you’re $20 million over the cap right? I’m sure these teams are seriously pondering Ferry’s offer of Andy, Sasha, and an autographed Usher CD for one of their 3 best players. Alan, Ferry’s hands are pretty tied at this point, and I’m sure he’s trying anyway, but there really isnt a move out there. Get it through your thick skull.
Besides, teams in the NBA arent stupid. If you were an Eastern Conference executive, would you trade LeBron any help whatsoever? Of course not. It’s pretty obvious that if the Cavs ever did find LeBron some serviceable help, the Cavs would win a title, and probably in convincing fashion. THEREFORE, the rest of the franchises in the NBA are going to refrain from dealing with the Cleveland Cavaliers unless they get one helluva sweetheart deal. It’s simple really. If a team has the best player in the league, why give him any help if you can avoid it?
Of course, the simple-minded and elderly out there will certainly continue to blame Ferry for all of the Cavs’ ills, much like idiots blame the President for bad weather. It’s an especially sacred ritual in Cleveland, where we chase every good coach and/or GM out of town far before their prime, only to watch them reach their fullest potential elsewhere.
If the Cavs maintain what they have, possibly add a midlevel player, and look for a deal at the deadline, that might be the best they can do until Wallace and co come off the cap. Is that really so bad?
andy, sasha AND an autographed Usher CD? hmmmm. too bad isiah thomas isnt still calling the shots in NY.
Ferry tied his own hands both in regard to the salary cap and the lack of tradeable talent on hand.
And I thought Brand wouldn’t come to Cleveland simply because he was a west coast guy?
ferry may have tied his hands on the salary cap, but again, nearly every team in the league has cap issues. every offseason has only a couple teams with a tremendous amount of cap space. its not possible to have significant cap space EVERY offseason.
the lack of tradeable talent is only ferry’s fault to a small extent. this team had no viable tradeable talent which date back to the 4-5 years prior to Ferry coming here. when ferry got here, the team had absolutely nothing to show for Paxson’s regime (except for lebron of course). thats where we could have gotten tradeable talent, and paxson’s annual mockery of the draft left the team with nothing to show for 5-6 years worth of drafting.
Oh, please. I never said the Cavs could of acquired Brand or Camby. Ferry precluded all possibility. (By the way, Josh, good call on that Brand thing. Flossing your teeth with your toes seems to be your forte). But the Camby deal is a perfect example of just how stupid people can be when they go off and apologize for Ferry. Cap space can be used for other things besides signing free agents. Just because he had it didn’t mean he had to promptly squander it all and put them in a five-year bind.
By the way, Josh, I just noticed your latest excuse. Normally I don’t read your stuff, but I just breezed through it and something caught my eye. Apparently, now there’s a conspiracy to prevent James from getting a decent player. It has absolutely nothing to do with the guy who’s in charge of personnel and contracts and put them in this position. Nah, it’s a Roswell thing without the aliens. Those damn conspiracies. Ruining Cleveland and breaking hearts of their sports fans yet again.
Hilarious.
By the way, if Ferry has any guts at all, he won’t waste a second to call Stephon Marbury’s agent and do whatever it takes to sign Marbury to the vet’s minimum after the Knicks buy out his contract and release him.
Bullet officially dodged:
Thankfully, New Orleans decided to overpay for too many years of James Posey instead of us. Against my own better judgment, I will give Ferry some small amount of credit for not doing what I was sure he would (panic and offer Posey 4 or 5 years at the full mid-level).
I haven’t seen the Gibson contract yet but based on what’s happened so far, I give ferry an A for the summer. No stupid signings in a shallow free agent pool, a draft pick who appears to have a chance to make our frontcourt rotation, no pissing off agents, and no panic trades for more aging overpaid veterans.
I’m not saying I’m not waiting for the big move…I am. I just know that the time to do it is near the trade deadline when underperforming teams shed salary and not in July when the main thing on the minds of owners and GMs is getting people to renew their season tickets.
Be patient….let those bad contracts become more and more liquid. We’re only going to get one shot at this so we’d better make sure we take the right one. Right now, my money is still on a Redd trade before the 08-09 deadline. Milwaukee is not going to want to pay Redd and Jefferson to win 45 games.
No pissing off agents? For Pete’s sakes, first give Ferry the opportunity to bang on the front door of West’s mother. The summer is still young.
And there’s not a chance in hell that Ferry will acquire Redd. Unless you’re talking about the mummified remains of Redd Foxx. I’ll put Ferry’s chances at that at 50/50. Unless he pisses off Foxx’s agent first.
So let me get this right, alan t – Ferry’s genius move would be going after Stephon Marbury – that’s your idea of guts, a locker room cancer ball hog that’s already on record as hating your star player? Seriously – I can’t tell if you’re joking.
No, I’m not joking. There’s no cap room, there is nobody on the team anybody else wants, and Marbury has serious talent. Who gives a crap if he’s a “locker room cancer.” (What, it was the Brady Bunch last season? Who are you kidding?) He’ll be dirt cheap to sign, his agent won’t be demanding anything because of the contract buy-out, he’ll already have plenty of money. Sign the guy for one season, what do they possibly have to lose? What, you don’t think a contending team won’t eventually acquire Ron Artest? Marbury is far better than everybody else the Cavs have pretending to be guard on a pretend championship team, and thanks to Ferry, he’s the only thing the Cavs can afford. Who’s better for the money, Devin Brown or Stephon Marbury? The guy has major talent. Or cares if he screws interns or talks nonsense or is a little left of center. Or what the hell, let’s all rub Eric Snow’s knee together, he’s far better than Marbury, right?
I would have to agree with Alan only if we can get Marbury dirt cheap. Even though he’s a wack job, like Ron Artest, he’s a serious talent that I think would keep in line especially with a chance to win a ring with Lebron. He’s a major offensive threat that teams would have to pay attention to and it would allow Lebron to be even more effective, especially off the ball. I’m sure Mike Brown could get him to play adequate defense. Heck, even Wally did a pretty decent job on Ray Allen in the playoffs in Mike Brown’s system.
You guys are clinically insane. You want Stephon Marbury? Really? Think about what you’re saying (and this is coming from the guy who was pushing harder than anyone to acquire Artest a month before the deadline last year). You want to acquire a guy who has killed every team he’s been on and been run out of every city he’s played in?
A few points on why you guys all need to be institutionalized:
1. You have to separate a player like Marbury from a player like Artest. Crazy is ok. Crazy + Alpha Dog player like Lebron can actually work (and yes, this is a direct ripoff from an old Simmons column but he was absolutely right). Let’s call this the Dennis Rodman or Stephen Jackson theorem. However, in order for that theory to work, said crazy player also has to be an intense competitor. Guys like Artest or Dennis Rodman…those guys loved to compete and hated to lose. I’m no expert on Stephon Marbury but he has never given me any reason to believe that he cares about winning. Crazy is ok as long as you also hate to lose. Marbury has never seemed particularly troubled by losing.
2. Stephon Marbury isn’t very good. Much like with the Vince Carter thing, you guys are valuing Marbury based on his fame, not on his present playing abilities. He’s 31, coming off injuries, and averaged 13.9 and 4.7 last year. By comparison, Delonte West is 5 years younger and averaged 10.3 and 3.8 last year (and a lot of that was before he started playing big minutes for the Cavs). Is it worth bringing the bubonic plague into your locker room to pick up a few points and an assist per game?…and that’s only if you figure West’s numbers won’t improve slightly which I think they will.
3. In light of the basketball upside of Marbury (minimal), do you really want to risk alienating the fans and pissing off Lebron? I mean what could scream “OH MY GOD, WE’RE DESPERATE AND PANICKED THAT LEBRON MIGHT LEAVE” louder than bringing in Marbury. It would be like an admission that we’re an incompetent franchise. Even for symbolic reasons alone, we can’t be bringing in Marbury.
In conclusion, you guys are all insane. If there were an award for “Worst Idea in World History,” this might be in the running.
Really, Biff? It’s for one season. Who gives a damn. Latrell Sprewell did just fine. Artest will do just find for the Lakers, or whoever.
Marbury gravitated between point and shooting guard last season in 25 games, or whatever it was. West is not a point guard, West is not a shooting guard, West is not a starting guard.
And to say Marbury has a “minimal” basketball upside compared to what the Cavs have … well, THAT is insane. He’s far better than West, he can share the minutes with West. And to say it would be “an admission that we’re an incometent franchise,” well, you really ain’t giving James too much credit in the intelligence department if you don’t think he hasn’t figured that out already.
James doesn’t have to sit down at dinner and cheat waiters out of tips with these guys, all he has to do is win games with them. Winning goes a long way towards not calling the other guy a dick.
1. I don’t remember Sprewell winning anything. I remember him going to one finals when he was 29 and had a lot more left in the tank than Marbury does now.
2. I think Lebron probably thinks that Larry Hughes is a douche who kind of screwed the franchise out of a chance to dominate the league early in James’s career. You have that and the Boozer fiasco (which, depending on how you see it, may or may not have been the Cavs’ fault). Other than those two debauchles, I think its unfair to say the Cavs have been an incompetent franchise. They made a couple of decisions that turned out to be terrible in hindsight and most of the other problems they’ve had since then are in some way a result of those moves. The Cavs really haven’t been that much worse than many of the other franchises in the league over the last few eyars. Aside from a select few teams that are managed extremely well (San Antonio, Portland), most of the teams in the NBA have a lot of the same problems the Cavs do. The only difference is the Cavs are under a microscope because they have the best player in the league and the national media still dislikes the notion of Lebron spending his entire career in Cleveland so they like to pour it on.
3. Now, I readily admit that I’m no basketball expert but I do think you might be slightly overlooking the idea of chemistry. Lebron doesn’t have to have dinner with his teammates but he has to click with them on the court. Nobody clicks with Marbury because he’s a grade A penis who only plays for himself. That’s why, in the prime of his career, he couldn’t get it done with Garnett. Guys like that don’t win titles for a reason. They can’t play prominent roles on good teams because they kill the chemistry.
Now, are you ready to move on with this absurd discussion. I just heard Steve Francis and J.R. Rider might be available!
Besides, how many of the Cavs’ many marginal scrubs have been interviewed by Charlie Rose? This fact in itself is worthy of signing the guy for a season to the vet’s minimum. The interview starts at about the 42-minute mark. Can you imagine seeing Delonte West being interviewed by Charlie Rose? Rose would be sitting there talking about politics, the Middle East, the national deficit and how it affects Wall Street, or something, and West would be sitting there talking about munching somebody’s feet. “I like eating socks. They taste like chicken!”
http://www.charlierose.com/guests/stephon-marbury
One bit of ironic little-known trivia, Biff: J.R. Rider owns one more NBA championship ring than James does. At least I’m assuming Rider hasn’t sold or pawned his championship ring, but who knows.
alan t:
Your insistance that Stephon Marbury would be a must add to the team is officially THE DUMBEST THING YOU’VE EVER SAID.
An undersized ball hog that can’t play defense and hates our star player and team captain. Oh, and he’s coming off an injury plagued season and has burned every bridge in every situation he’s ever been in – that sounds like a great fit. We’d be sure to bring Starbury the first playoff series win of his career, and he could finally erase the embarassment of shooting 6 for 30 in those losses to Spain and Lithuania in the 2004 Olympics. He will be vindicated to those who connect the sad state of the Knicks with his acquisition, and can change his well known status as a premier selfish loser space cadet. Maybe he’ll even get the Cavs logo tattooed on the other side of his head. Lebron can get past all the trash Starbury talked about him on his radio show, and will forget all about the things that made him remark, and I belive this is a direct quote, “I could never play with that guy.”
I think I see your strategy here. Signing Marbury can make your dreams come true. Considering what happens to most GMs that acquire Marbury, it would almost certainly cost Danny Ferry his job.
Truth is, alan, I don’t think you really believe signing Marbury is a good idea. As much as I can’t stand your constant drone and wish you would provide us with some real discourse, I can tell from your writing style that you’re not that stupid. What I think really motivates you is that you know there is absolutely zero chance of Ferry adding Marbury, so you know you can safely bash Ferry for not doing it. Heck, it allows to to bash Ferry NOW for not doing it, and Marbury hasn’t even been released yet.
Isaiah Rider didn’t even make the Laker’s playoff squad, dude. He’s a perfect example of why not to bring Marbury here – how long did it take the Hawks to recover from that guy? Ten years? He is the quintessential wasted talent, and usually figured into everyone’s top five “What Could Have Been” list. Unless you’re writing about that or making out your Marin County Correctional Facility All-Stars ballot, it’s best to leave him out of your argument.
biff – if you want to point out examples of the cavs being incompetent that is fine. however, in fairness, you cant use examples of things (like the boozer situation) that happened before Ferry and Dan Gilbert took over. that was all Paxson.
re. Marbury. there is a reason when a guy with his kind of talent goes from team to team. the guy is a 20.0 point / game player for his career, yet has played for 4 different teams. every team he has been on, they could not wait to get rid of him. i actually agree with Alan T. (did I just write that?) that this cavs team can use a guy who has some edge to him or who is a little “nutty”. i think that would help this team. ben wallace USED to be that guy, but I think he lost at least some his edge with his most recent contract. that being said, Marbury isnt the answer. He is kind of like Bonds – still has talent to help a team, but that [diminishing?] help is outweighed by all the baggage and media insanity that would follow, not to mention his alleged feud with LBJ.
re – JR Rider. wow. what a talent he was. seriously, that guy could play. total nutcase and a waste of talent.
I think the big thing to consider about Marbury is “dirt cheap” – like vet minimum dirt cheap. Bring him in for training camp, see how well he plays and how well he gets along with Lebron. If things go well, start him alongside Delonte (Delonte could move to the 2 spot or vice versa). If he causes problems and it looks like he’s not going to be a good fit, cut him early in the season. I’d rather have Artest of course, but Marbury at vet minimum to me would be worth the try and would be minimum risk.
Exactly, Tim. You’d think I wrote that they should sign Marbury to a 5-year contract for the full midlevel exception, and then force James to have anal sex with him.
I think it’s just plain dumb not to consider just how much better the talent would be with somebody like Marbury. Not only was he hurt, but he was under the New York microscope, he had the trial thing, his father died, and everything looks a helluva lot worse than it really is when the team you’re on sucks. He’s better than anybody else on the Cavaliers, with the exception of James. He can play 25 minutes, which is 25 minutes more than Eric Snow. Or is a lousy 45 victories and get promptly whacked out of the playoffs sufficient? What in the hell do they have to lose?
Tim, there is a reason that Marbury is dirt cheap. The market for the services of former all-stars who are 31 doesn’t just dry up by accident. Marbury is radioactive and its not just because he is a PR nightmare. He is an absolute team killer.
I want the Cavs to get better just as much as anybody. But you don’t take a team that was a couple of PJ Brown fluke plays away from potentially winning the East again and poison it with a notorious team killer.
The team’s biggest need right now is a Tex Winter type assistant to install a real offense….not a batshit crazy washed up headcase to cause trouble.
No, Biff, the reason he’d be “dirt cheap” is because his contract would be bought out. He has his money, guaranteed. The only thing that would be “cheaper” would be the amount of money the Knicks would be required to pay Marbury as a result of the signing.
I mean, this is just dumb. A “team killer?” The team won 45 games! What is there to kill? James is great. Seriously, you don’t think having Marbury out there instead of a fish like Walleye wouldn’t have resulted in a series victory?
And please, can we get off “hire an assistant coach to run the offense” nonsense? When you’ve got Ilgauskas combined with James, there is nothing to run. Figuratively or literally. No coach on the planet could improve the mish-mash they have on offense.
You’re so far off base that its not even funny alan t.
It wouldn’t matter if Marbury was coming off a buyout or was an unrestricted free agent. At this point, no team would give him serious money. And in case you missed it, guys who get buyouts don’t just take the first minimum deal that comes along. They still try to get as much money as possible out of the new sucker team. They don’t just decide to take less because getting as much as possible would be double dipping and “unfair”. Marbury would be cheap because buyout or no buyout, nobody would pay much for his “services.”
What is there to kill? A team that won the east 2 years ago and had a legit shot to do it again last year. I’m not saying they’re an incredible team but its not like we’re in the lottery every year.
Oh, and you’re right about Lebron and Z. I mean there is nobody on the face of the planet that could figure out a way to score with the best offensive player in the league and a center who is automatic from 15 feet and can play with his back to the basket. Since Z can’t run and Lebron can, that makes it completely impossible for them to run an offense in the halfcourt. Got any other poorly thought out ideas or cliche’s you want to drop on us today?
Actually, Alan, Marbury until the lasy two years was a player that always put up good numbers when his team sucked. You can make a very good case for a correlation there. And the idea that he would play 25 minutes and be content is just incredibly stupid. This is the guy that left the Knicks in Phoenix last year because he was being benched.
And getting “promptly whacked out of the playoffs” an interesting interpretation of losing in the final minute of game seven on the road in the second round to a team that pretty much cruised to the championship afterwards. I do worry about making this team worse – the playoffs last year showed we aren’t far away from getting back to the finals, and that we won 45 games in spite of the injuries and the major trade.
Joe – there’s no alleged fued, both guys are on record against each other, albeit Marbury more than James. That, Tim, is precisely why I don’t think it’s even worth a shot at little to no money. The other baggage is huge, but when they talked about buying out Marbury’s contract last year, Lebron – an extemely diplomatic player – went on record saying he couldn’t play with him. Why bring that in, on top of anything else? I have no problem bringing an attitude or a little craziness in here – Artest I think could work out well – but not Marbury.
It’s not like I think we have to have him or something. I just agree with Alan that if we could get him for the minimum, why not try it? Like I said before, cut him 1/3 of the way into the season if it doesn’t work out. I don’t see how this would kill our chemistry so much if you can just cut the guy early in the season.
Yes, Marbury would probably want more than the vet minimum. If this was the case, then of course we don’t go after him. I’m sure some team out there will offer him in the 5-6 million per year range anyways if he’s bought out, so the point would be moot.
I still like the idea of staying put this year and see how far we can get and then make a big move next year if we don’t get at least back to the Finals. I still think a Finals appearance is very possible with our current roster. A training camp together along with hopefully a healthy AV, Gibson and Sasha (who were all playing injured in the playoffs or missed games) should make us better. Of course, I still think if we traded Wally straight up for Hughes we’d be a better team next year, but that’s not going to happen.
Alan t:
I sincerely apologize for calling your Marbury acquisition idea the worst idea in the history of the world. Clearly, Tim in Plantation Florida is determined to win that award in a landslide this year with his “let’s re-acquire Larry Hughes idea.”
So, between the two of you, the two best ideas you can come up with are to trade for Larry Hughes and sign Stephon Marbury. What if we did this instead…..what if we slashed Lebron’s tires, grabbed his girlfriend’s ass, and then egged his house! That might piss him off almost as much as your ideas guys!
Seriously, I mean these ideas are absolutely horrid. I mean I realize nobody died and made me the god of NBA roster management but these ideas don’t even pass a basic rationality test. Not only are they terrible from a basketball and PR standpoint, but they would almost assuredly infuriate the one guy whose opinion really matters.
Maybe our lack of roster flexibility is just making you guys delusional…but I implore just to wait it out another half year or so. Then, we might actually be able to do something to HELP our franchise.
forget larry hughes. he was a guy who on paper was solid and could have helped this team. a healthy larry hughes in his prime was a GREAT signing. however its clear that the death of his brother changed his outlook on his career and life and he simply does not value basketball and winning like this team would need. he is clearly content playing ball, having fun, and enjoying what life has to offer on a day to day basis. frankly, there is nothing wrong with that and I would love to have that luxury. however, he isnt going to help a team win a championship.
Hughes and Marbury would be an interesting backcourt.
I agree with joe that Hughes doesn’t care about winning, but he sure doesn’t seem ‘content’ or like he’s ‘having fun.’ He looks like a neurotic, unhappy dude who thinks about himself way too much.
Did anyone actually remember Larry and Lebron playing together for the couple months leading up to the big trade? They were finally playing pretty well together and seemed to be developing some chemistry on the court. Plus, we were winning until some more bodies went down. And, Larry was playing the dreaded point guard position that he hates so much. Larry may have just wanted to have fun and be carefree with the Cavs, but I never once saw him tank it on the court. He looked like he was playing hard every night to me. Yeah, he may not have that burning desire to win, but that doesn’t mean that he wasn’t trying to play well and win. Also, I don’t remember hearing anything about Lebron not wanting to play with him or disliking him.
Lets just look at the facts for this upcoming year. Wally looks like he’s lost a few steps and he’s only a shell of his former all-star self. Maybe with a training camp with the team he’ll come back and be a more consistent shooter. Sasha has some talent, and he’s shown flashes that he can be a quality 2 guard in this league, but he was injury plagued last year and had the holdout, so it’s really hard to tell how much upside he has. Thus, we have a big ? at the 2 spot. Would I like us to get Redd or Artest more than getting Larry back? Sure I would. But it doesn’t seem very realistic at this point. Would I be OK with our current roster? Yes, I would. Do I think Larry Hughes would be a better starting SG than either Sasha or Wally? Darn right I do and that’s why I propose the trade.
Larry vs. Wally -
Offense:
Wally – streaky shooter that shot around 40% with the Cavs. Career #’s much better, but has he just lost it or in a slump trying to get used to the new system and his teamates? He’s tough, strong, and can drive to the hole some and post up some, but his ballhandling skills are pretty poor and he’s not very quick of foot. Can’t get out and run on the fast break.
Larry – streaky shooter that shoots around 40%. Still very athletic and can take the ball to the hole and can run like a dear on the fast break. Should be even more effective if he plays the 2 instead of the 1.
Defense:
Larry beats Wally hands down – not even close. That being said, I thought Wally played pretty decent D in the playoffs. Larry’s a much better perimeter defender and can get you steals which allows for some easy baskets.
Larry vs. Sasha – I don’t think anyone can argue that from what they’ve seen up to this point that Sasha would be better or even as good.
I’m not saying trading Wally for Larry straight up is the best solution, but there’s little options out there and I think we’d be a better team if we did it.
Tim – is it really a great idea to reacquire a player less than a half a season after he asked to be traded? Really? That makes us a better team? I can’t believe someone is even making this argument.
And for the record, it would be a bad idea to bring Marbury into training camp even if he didn’t count against the cap and all his salary went to charity. It’s irrelevant how much he made. It’s just a bad idea.
Tim:
Go back and watch game 5 of the 07 Eastern Conference Semis against New Jersey. Then, go to the doctor and have your head examined.
You want to trade back for a guy who:
1. Stunk while he was here
2. Is always hurt
3. Admittedly doesn’t care about winning
4. Essentially said he never liked it here once he left
5. Doesn’t like playing the position that we need him to play
6. Can’t shoot but still shoots a ton
7. Has an atrocious contract that we ended up taking on an equally atrocious contract just to get rid of
8. Is one of the worst and weakest finisher in the game today
9. Will be 30 next season
10. Will be reason #1 someday when they finally make the “5 Reasons You Can’t Blame Lebron for Leaving Cleveland” episode of that show.
I’m not trying to dump on you here but just so you know, this is an objectively horrendous idea. Really, you need to save face and recant.
Reason #1, Biff? I think it will be more like #2 or #3. Hughes didn’t just appear in Cleveland on his own, it wasn’t like some homeless dude living underneath an abandoned house off of St. Clair Avenue woke up and found himself a lantern with a genie in it.
the larry hughes issue is moot. its not going to happen. that ship has sailed. i agree, on paper, i’d prefer hughes over wally. in practical terms, wally is probably better for this team than hughes. plus, wally’s contract expires this season. thats a NICE trade chip. why waste it on a relatively mediocre talent (at this point in his career) such as larry hughes. it took a bad ben wallace contract to unload hughes and his bad contract, so why burden the financial flexibility more by having BOTH hughes’ and wallace’s bad contracts? that would make absolutely no sense.
alan t:
Ferry signed a guy at a position of need coming off an all-star season and entering the prime of his career. The fact that Hughes was a flop is Hughe’s fault, not Ferry’s. Ferry is responsible for it, but it’s not his fault. There’s a big difference there and that’s why Hughes is #1.
Hughes didn’t last long anywhere before he came to the Cavs and even the Wizards tried to lowball him after he had a career year there.
No, but everything else is Ferry’s fault, Biff. And that’s why Ferry is #1. Even with that one bad signing (and not to toot my own horn, which I said was really bad at the time), it’s the rest of the stuff that doomed the Cavs. The Ilgauskas thing is #2, Hughes is #3. The Ilgauskas signing, which not only was completely moronic in that Ferry bid against himself for unnecessary giant dollars and unnecessary years and was what really put the team in a long-term bind, but Ferry’s clueless benevolence towards his white European buddy forced them into five long years of a anti-James style that seamlessly fits James like the clueless goy who doesn’t know he’s not supposed to put kosher corned beef and pastrami together with fresh Wonder Bread and a heaping tablespoon of mayonnaise.
Again with your stupid Ilgauskas rant. z simply put, does not have an awful contract. you have NEVER presented any source to back up your idiotic claim that Ferry “bid against himself.” Z’s contract pays him just about right – around 10M for a durable starting center with an two All-Star games to his resume (if you look at the 2007-2008 salaries of every single center that has made an NBA All-Star team since 2005 when Z made it, the only centers that made less last year than Z where Mehmet Okur and Dwight Howard, who is still on his rookie contract), still playing at about the the same level – it’s not even in the the top forty or fifty contracts in the NBA, is it? Where is your freaking logic for that? Where? I’ve never seen it. Because all you say is your made up garbage about “Ferry bidding against himself” and “giving his buddy a deal.” The length is about right – this year and a player option for next – I can certainly see Z being productive this year, since he was 14.1ppg 9.8rpg 1.6 bpg last year.
His contract has never been prohibitively untradeable, and after this year, it doesn’t even matter. It has NEVER been the contract that bound the Cavs – if for no other reason that he’s produced. And honestly, Z DOES play well with Lebron. He can’t run with him, but Z should be making the outlet anyway, and shouldn’t have to be a running center. He is an excellent pick and pop player for Lebron to have as a passing option, as he has a pretty dependable jumpshot and is a big target, and he draws centers away from the paint.
Chuck:
I agree with 90% of what you’re saying. Z is not overpaid in the current NBA market. The only thing I faulted Ferry for was giving him, what, at the time, was believed to be one more year than anyone else was offering. Still, this certainly has not been the contract that has hurt the Cavs and I would agree with you that we could probably trade it whenever we wanted given the scarcity of talented big men in the league. Z might be the best shooting center in the league, he’s a great offensive rebounder, and his defense has improved dramatically since Mike Brown got there.
It’s easy to pick on Z because he’s not young and athletic. But come from a guy who was furious the Cavs didn’t sign Sam Dalembert the summer they re-signed Z (guilty as charged), I’d have to say that I was wrong and that it was the right thing to do. As my friend that summer told me, it’s easy to pick on Z until you consider the alternatives.
Alan, if you can name for me one guy to play the 5 that is better than Z that we could’ve gotten in the last couple of years, I’m all ears.
← Previous Comments