Answering some rumors
Posted May 26th, 2008 by Brian Windhorst
I’ve gotten lots of e-mails over the last week asking me about players the Cavs may want to trade for this offseason. Nobody asked about the draft, which I wrote about in Sunday’s paper. I guess LeBron’s comments at the end of the season are the reason for that. Anyway, let me go over some things to answer some questions I’ve been getting.
A couple of things before we start.
1. The Cavs probably aren’t going to be signing anybody to a significant contract straight up this summer. All they have is their exceptions ($5.5 million mid-level and $1.8 million bi-annual). Neither of those are likely going to attract impact players. Considering the staggering size of their payroll, I don’t expect the Cavs to use all or maybe any of this money.
2. The Cavs have plenty of trade assets, but there are circumstances. Most of them are expiring contracts, especially Wally Szczerbiak’s $13 million Teams who are looking to clear cap space and rebuild want these deals. Not everybody wants to rebuild in the summer, usually that decision happens mid-season. So, in general, expiring contracts tend to become more valuable as the season progresses. That means a major move might well not happen until during next season. Not that it is impossible. Last season the SuperSonics broke down their team and the Celtics cashed in with Ray Allen. The Cavs also have two restricted free agents in Daniel Gibson and Delonte West they could use in sign-and-trades. However, the team likes the both and probably wants to keep them.
3. The season isn’t over yet, the draft hasn’t taken place, and not all coaches or general managers are in place. Which means there’s mostly just speculation at this point and all talk of roster movement would be by definition premature. From the Cavs perspective, I don’t even believe their coaches and front office have made certain decisions yet. So anything about the Cavs would be total conjecture. But I am paid to do it, so I will. As I did in Sunday’s story.
Ok, now…
–People are asking me a lot about Elton Brand, there is apparently some rumor that the Cavs want him. Well of course the Cavs would want him, so would almost every team in the league. He is going into the final year of his contract, which he has an option to terminate. But since he is coming off an Achilles tear nobody is 100 percent sure he will do that. Either way, the only way the Cavs would be able to get him is in a trade (straight up or in an sign-and-trade). The Clippers don’t like spending money, but they wouldn’t trade Brand just to clear cap space. He’s their franchise player right now and Corey Maggette may be leaving them soon. At this moment, I don’t think it is possible.
–Lots have e-mailed about Michael Redd. The Bucks have a new coach and a new general manager and may be looking to move numerous players as they look to rebuild. In time, this could be a legitimate scenario. The Bucks have not prospered with Redd as their centerpiece and his maximum contract ties them up. However, this is not the same Redd from three years ago. He’s suffered a knee injury since, his shooting percentage has dropped two straight seasons (he only shot 36 percent on 3s this year) and he’s coming off his lowest scoring average in four seasons. Now, he is a highly skilled shooter who has experience playing with LeBron on Team USA. We’ll have to see how things develop and what the Bucks do with the No. 8 overall pick.
–Baron Davis. Several have raised this one to me. Baron is another player who has an opt out in his contract that no one is sure he will use. The Warriors are at a bit of a crossroads, they have numerous free agents to deal with. It appears Davis wants an extension and probably a massive one and the Bay Area media has reported early talks have not gone well. So it makes sense that his name would be floated in rumors. No one has told me the Cavs would have interest and it is questionable as to whether his style would mesh with LeBron because he is a shoot first guard. But it is a situation that could be worth watching.
–Andre Iguodala, Ben Gordon, Emeka Okafor (I’ve gotten questions on all) or any other restricted free agent from the draft class of 2004. The Cavs do not have cap space required to give out an offer sheet that would scare anyone. As for sign-and-trades, the Cavs don’t have the young talent that would make such a deal possible. Teams don’t want to give up their young stars, just as the Cavs wouldn’t.
I’ll have more as things develop and more about the season as a little more time passes. People still aren’t talking much.
May 26th, 2008 at 5:01 pm
Waiting for comments on Carmelo. . .
May 26th, 2008 at 7:36 pm
the cavs will probably make a move in the middle of the season next year. and when they are bounced out of the playoffs in the second round again because of poor offense they can say that they didn’t have enough time together on the floor. another season of treating the symptoms and ignoring the disease.
May 26th, 2008 at 8:53 pm
I agree terje
The Cavs MUST make their moves in the offseason, or it could spell doom. If we don’t become a legit contender for the title soon, I fear that LeBron will leave. We must get that second scoring option.
Sounds like Redd is the best option right now, he might be getting older, but I think that shooting percentage would shoot back up playing with LeBron.
May 26th, 2008 at 9:06 pm
Uh, Brian I emailed you about the draft…
I guess I’ll resend it.
May 26th, 2008 at 9:17 pm
So, basically, we’re screwed once again.
It all starts at the top. Bad management has left us in this position. How are teams like the Spurs or Pistons able to maintain multiple All-Stars year after year? It’s because of the work being done in the front office.
May 26th, 2008 at 9:54 pm
Maintaining multiple All-Stars once you have them isn’t difficult. The league is set up to allow teams to keep whoever they want. It’s getting All-Stars in the first place that requires a little thinking. You have to draft well and make good free agent signings. Ferry was apparently sick the day they taught those skills at GM school.
I’m getting really worried that everyone in the media keeps talking Mike Redd without mentioning Mo Williams. Really Cleveland? We’re going to add a slightly past his prime jump shooter, install him in Mike Brown’s system, fail to add a point guard or anyone else that can get to the hole, and that’s going to put us over the top? Really?
Please, whoever is really making the calls here…be it Ferry, Gilbert….or hell, even Lebron…just use your head. If you can’t add the pieces you need to win, don’t destroy all flexibility for the relevant future in a futile attempt to appease everyone. I think I speak for all Cavs fans when I tell you that we really won’t be all that impressed that you are able to build a 51 win team instead of a 45 win team. We’d rather you just sit on those expiring deals and wait for a miracle.
May 26th, 2008 at 11:36 pm
I think I’d rather have Mo Williams. He’s younger. He only makes $8 million a year and he can score for us. Although, we’d have to take a bad contract in return I’m sure.
May 27th, 2008 at 8:59 am
Amen, Biff. Amen.
May 27th, 2008 at 10:04 am
Hey Everybody,
Jose Calderon of Toronto and Corey Maggette of the Clippers are on the trading block. Maybe the Cavs should go after them by giving up some of their expiring contracts (Wally…etc). Both are solid, consistent players and are not expensive (I feel that they would fit well in the lineup). Also, they could go for a good big man/post player like a Josh Smith or Andris Biedrins (both will be free agents and may not require a lot of money to sign).
For example, Wally himself made more money than Calderon and Maggette combined this season ($13,000,000 - Wally; $7,000,000 - Maggette; $3,000,000 - Calderon) and look how he’s producing (10.0 ppg, 32% 3PT, 37% FG in the playoffs). So yeah, the Cavs should try and get their money’s worth. Maggette averaged 22.0 ppg and 6 rpg; Calderon averaged 12.0 ppg and 7.0 apg along with having a 48% 3PFG%.
What do you all think??
May 27th, 2008 at 10:24 am
We need to keep the expirings. That will give us $30 million to sign Brand and a PG. We also need to keep our draft choices because most of our team is kind of old.
May 27th, 2008 at 10:47 am
I’m hearing a lot about Melo, Davis, Williams, and Brand. Everyones saying that they are the only things out there that could save the Cavs.
I dont know if thats true or not but we do need someone in order to make this team a contender. The Cavs are a good team due to LeBron but they need another Great player to become an Amazing team. I think that with the Miami Heat going into a rebuilding season that we should try and secure a trade allowing D. Wade to come to Cleveland.
I dont know if that would be a realistic trade but it would be awesome to see D. Wade and LBJ on the same team.
May 27th, 2008 at 10:49 am
The cavs with lebron talents in passing and renbounding, they only need a guy who can score, attack and make the mid 80s or high 70s precents from the line. D west at the point with help from gibson who can be at the 2 somtimes. we need a good starter at the 2 and if pavlovich get that and i dont mind, we need a good scorer to help and i think we can find that by trading big men and expring contracts like wally, snow, d jones…
we have five guys can play the 5 four of them can do the 4 so keep z and work your way with the other teams and lets get the best ASAP.
May 27th, 2008 at 11:27 am
As long as ferry is picking players and brown is coaching them, all these wish list of who to get are all mute points. Also what happens when Z goes down. We were very lucky last year that he didn’t. Seems like the Cavs are in a hole and the morthey try to get out, the more dirt they are pulling on themselves. The answer, get rid of ferry, brown,get a center, and most important, PRAY. A lot of players, I’m sure, would love to play with LeBron, but not to many allstars want to play FOR him. If we are stuck with ferry, at least get a real coach. MJ, Magic, and Bird had them, why not LeBron.
May 27th, 2008 at 11:57 am
i want jason maxeel from the detroit pistons..he’s a energy player and has a great leaping ability..and bring in a shooting gaurd like michael redd or a point guard like baron davis to set the play for clevenland..let james be the finisher of the play..pls…
May 27th, 2008 at 12:15 pm
A few thoughts on Raptors Point Guards:
- Calderon isn’t going anywhere. He is thriving in Toronto, and the Raptors are going to do whatever it takes to keep him there. This is a guy who had 1 turnover (against 67 assists) in his last 9 regular-season games. The Raptors will match just about any offer, and would certainly match a mid-level exception deal, which would be the most the Cavs could offer.
- Calderon is so good that the Raptors aren’t going to let him go regardless of the fact that they have T.J. Ford signed to a deal that pays him $8M next year and $8.5M for the two years after that. Which might mean that the Cavs can pick up Ford on the cheap. The Cavs might be able to bring Ford here for Gibson or West on a sign and trade, or for Pavlovic, with one of the expiring contracts (Snow?) thrown in to make the numbers work.
- Yes, Ford is a small point guard, he is not a great shooter, and he has a scary injury history (he only played 51 games last year). But he is still super-quick, and he is capable of getting out and running. With Ford at the point the Cavs could go for stretches where they look to run, looking for Ford instead of LeBron off the rebound so that LeBron can just take off down the floor. Ford’s PER was 20.71, good for 6th in the league and ahead of Tony Parker, Baron Davis, Andre Miller and Jason Kidd (though still slightly behind Calderon). For reference, Daniel Gibson’s PER was 11.77. Ford is just 25, still in the prime of his career, but he has 6 years of experience already, meaning that we won’t have to wait for him to grow into the role. Ford might not be perfect, but he would be a significant improvement for the Cavs, and would allow them to stop trying to use small shooting guards as point guards.
Go Cavs.
Mike C.
May 27th, 2008 at 1:09 pm
Essentially, the Cavs are a two man basketball team.
1. Obviously LeBron
2. Mike Brown’s Defense
May 27th, 2008 at 1:11 pm
Thoughts on the Toronto Guards
1. TJ Ford:
a. First and foremost, I really don’t see how you can lock up those kinds of dollars in a guy who hasn’t been able to keep himself off a stretcher in his early 20’s. We’re not talking about minor injuries here (a temperamental spinal cord isn’t quite the same as tendonitis or bone spurs). Ford, in my mind, will always be a guy who is one hard foul away from being out of the league
b. He can’t shoot
c. He can’t shoot
d. I love the idea of a guy that can fly up and down the floor and will always believe that Lebron is best suited for that style of play. But, with that being said, you can’t just ignore the rest of the roster and pretend that the Cavs are going to start getting up and down the floor. With Z, Wallace, and Joe Smith being 3 of your top 4 up front, it’s a little unreasonable to think you’re actually going to be able to run.
e. As you said, he’s had 6 years in the league already. Of course there are late bloomer stories out there (e.g Chauncey Billups), but generally, if a guy hasn’t played well consistently for long stretches after that length of time in the league, he’s never going to.
f. You can’t ignore the fact that he’s already lost a starting job and been traded (for Chaz Villanueva nonetheless) at the age of 25.
g. His size makes him a matchup problem on the defensive end.
Bottom Line: He’s a band aid, not a solution. I’d love to have him at 4 or 5 million a year but not 8. Even if we could get him for expiring deals, I wouldn’t spend 8 million a year (or 16 since we will be over the tax threshold) to have him.
2. Jose Calderon: Mike C is exactly right. It’s not even worth talking about him. He’s staying right where he is.
May 27th, 2008 at 1:17 pm
Good article, you broke it down nicely. Elton Brand would be Lebron’s Robin. The guy is an all-star when healthy. He’s a force down low with a good mid-range jumper. I doubt the Cavs get him though. Their best shot to improve is by making a trade next year for a player like Redd or Mike Miller. The Cavs have Szczerbiek and Snow who both have expiring big contracts. That would be the most attractive option for other teams.
May 27th, 2008 at 1:28 pm
Yeah im over my initial lets gets Michael Redd high…
getting him will cost a lot and if he slumps or gets injured then all our chips are in one basket… It would be nice to get CDR in the draft and then wisely use the expiring contracts. If simply are patient (unlike how we got Larry Hughes) then we could be in great position to coup the next star player like Mike Bibby or Pau Gasol
May 27th, 2008 at 1:37 pm
even thought it’s unrealistic , i would also love to see wade and lebron play together . but why would wade come to cleveland ? he’s won in miami (and was finals mvp) , miami is a better market ,miami has the weather , miami has the night life , and he’s big in miami . if these two were to ever pair up , it’s hard for me to see dwayne going cleveland . also , at this early stage in his career , i don’t see dwayne playing anyone’s sidekick ,he’s already a proven lead guy who can carry a well put together team over the top . lastly , why in all of hell would he want to play in the mike brown / lebron offense ?
May 27th, 2008 at 1:40 pm
I would absolutely love to get Baron Davis. He would be perfect as a PG who can shoot, pass, and he is very good at running a fast break and playing at a fast pace. I am not very confident that he will become available, the Warriors are still a good team and all, but I hope the Cavs can get him.
I keep reading a lot of things in these comments that just won’t happen. You can’t keep the expiring contracts, because there is no guarantee that there will be good players worth signing in the free agent market. The way max contracts are set up now, the team the player seeking the max contract is currently on has a major advantage because they can offer an extra year of maximum dollars. This is why it was impossible for the Cavs to get guys like Michael Redd, Ray Allen, and in part Joe Johnson back when we last had cap space because they could all get more money staying where they were.
As far as trades, Calderon is a beast but Toronto knows it and they would be stupid to deal him. They will probably want to keep Ford too, because they are a playoff team and they probably feel that they are close to making the next step and would rather not take a step backwards. Carmelo isn’t being traded I have no idea where that rumor came from. I would also like Maxiell but the Pistons need him because he is their best young big man. I would again also like Mo Williams, but all the reasons why people say we should get him are the reasons why he will stay in Milwaukee. Why would a rebuilding team trade a good, young PG that is locked up for 5 years (I think)?
A player yet to be mention that I think would be great next to Lebron is Shawn Marion. He is in a similar situation as Baron Davis as he has an early termination option and he wants a big extension but he wouldn’t be able to get it on the FA market. He can shoot, create his own shot, and is a top-line defender, so the ability is there. Now if he is available….totally different question
May 27th, 2008 at 2:17 pm
Thoughts on Baron Davis and Elton Brand:
- Yes, they are both very good players, and yes they can both opt out of their contracts this summer.
- But, they also both have Hollywood aspirations.
- Davis has a film production company, Verso Entertainment, that he formed with Jessica Alba’s new husband (BOOO!) Cash Warren, who played high school ball with Davis. He is producing “Made in America,” a documentary about the Crips and Bloods in LA.
- Brand also has a film production company, Gibraltar Films, that produced Rescue Dawn, a Vietnam-era war pic starring Christian Bale, which was critically acclaimed if not very commercially successful.
- The point is, both of these guys want to be Hollywood big shots, and they both have been able to head towards that goal because they play ball in California. We all know how tough it is to convince players to come spend the Winter in Cleveland, but it’s going to be even harder to make guys like Davis and Brand happy.
- I’m not saying that it means that Brand or Davis couldn’t come here, I’m just saying that it’s more complicated than making the numbers work. And even if one of them does come to Cleveland, they would likely leave after next year anyway.
May 27th, 2008 at 2:18 pm
Don’t forget Antawn Jamison is out there this year too (as long as we’re spending someone else’s money on free agents and luxury tax). Gilbert Arenas might be too.
What if…
The Cavs signed Jamison and put him at the 3,
made LeBron the PG (officially, he already has the job)
and made Boobie the starting 2?
LeBron’s scoring would probably dip, because he’d be defending a tough 1 or 2 every night. But, with Gibson and Jamison on the court, there’d be two legitimate deep threats that would keep the floor spaced. Jamison is one of the most creative scorers around — long jumpers, drives, scoop shots, post-up, so there’d be lots of ways to get him the ball (maybe he could steal us a Wizards’ playbook). Delonte West comes in as the #3 guard, which a lot of people around the league thinks is his best role. Wally can come in for LeBron and can look for his shot as much as he wants. Same scenario works if the Cavs get Brand instead of Jamison.
May 27th, 2008 at 2:29 pm
Also:
- I like Shawn Marion as a player, and think he might be available for expiring contracts and draft picks. But he cannot shoot, and he cannot create his own shot. Also, he wanted to leave Phoenix because he wanted to be the man, and didn’t seem to care when he was traded from a team that won 55 games to a team that won 15. In other words, he could be the next Larry Hughes. I’m willing to roll the dice, but there are some major character questions for a guy who makes $18M a year.
May 27th, 2008 at 3:22 pm
Yeah, unless the Bucks decide to just unload Redd for picks and expiring deals, it looks like the Cavs hands may be tied. I still argue that the Cavs need a major overhaul, not a minor one, but the fact that guys arent available is becoming more evident.
Not good…
May 27th, 2008 at 3:49 pm
I’m hoping and praying that Daniel stay with Cleveland. He’s good on both ends defense and offense. I would keep Delonte too.
May 27th, 2008 at 3:54 pm
My thoughts:
This team needs a number 2 scorer more than anything else. The best position for him would be shooting guard, because that is our biggest hole, but adding a number 2 scorer at just about any position would do it, because all of our players except Z have position flexability.
Any frontline player we can acquire is going to be an injury risk. Every single one.
Carmelo Anthony:not available, according to his agent and the Nuggets.
I also can’t see Mo Williams being traded. His contract is fantastic and he’s young. Milwaukee will rebuild with him.
And Toronto will re-sign Calderon. If they double his salary, he still cheap.
TJ Ford:we don’t need another flawed player, especially at point guard. The Cavs need a dependable number two scorer. Ford’s not it, and he’s overpaid.
Baron Davis:not sure if he can play with Lebron, he really dominates any team he’s on, but it would be interesting to watch. He gets to the basket as well as anyone in the NBA, almost at will, and he’s underrated defensively. It’s hard to see him leaving a California team, and the contract year he’d have to walk away from is huge. If healthy, he’s one of the top fifteen players in the NBA.
Elton Brand:an interesting fit, he’s a very solid mid range shooter, a dominating offensive rebounder, and elite shot blocker. Imagine him starting alongside Z, with Wallace moved to Varejao’s off the bench role. Joe Smith would remain our scoring forward off the bench. I would think a sign and trade for Gibson, Varejao, Jones and picks would be intriguing for the Clippers if Brand is going to leave anyway, and Cleveland should be attractive to Brand, since it’s a chance to win now, and he’s 29. Plus there is the Duke connection with Ferry.
Corey Maggette:I think this is intriguing as well. Maggette can score, and that’s what the Cavs need. He’s more of a 3 than a two, but I don’t think that’s a big deal. And he’s probably the easiest to acquire and afford high profile player available this summer.
Michael Redd:two years ago this would seem like a perfect fit, kind of like Szcerbiak seemed 5 years ago. A couple posts have been down on his age - Brand, Davis, & Maggette will al be 29 next season. He’s a scorer, with a decent all around game, and he should be fine with coming to Cleveland. His contract is huge, but that probably just means that he’s easier to get, and that we might even be able to move Wally’s deal to get him. We could probably just insert him at shooting guard with the rest of the starters from the playoffs - imagine Redd taking those shots instead of Szczerbiak. It would be a home run swing for the Cavs, though - Redd’s contract is so big, we won’t be able to make another major move before Lebron opts out. If it didn’t work out, we’re screwed.
Antawn Jamison: I think he’s a good fit, too, but we probably have to shift him to the three (that’s where he likes to play, anyway) and Lebron into the backcourt. He’s an excellent all around scorer and rebounder, and he should be able to take some pressure off Lebron. He’s a solid team player that has always been willing to adjust his game - remember, he was a leading scorer for Golden State and Sixth Man of the Year for Dallas. He’s the oldest of this group, though, at 32.
Shawn Marion:he’s got the same agent as Varejao, doesn’t he? Skills wise, he’s a good fit, since that ugly jumper seems to go down most of the time, and he’s a versatile defender and rebounder He is, however, an increasingly inconcistent scorer and 31 years old. I’m not sure if he could be depended on to put up 20ppg.
Mike Miller:it officially seems like we’ve been talking about getting him forever. He’s a great fit, a versatile player that can bring the ball up the floor and get really hot shooting the ball. The streakyness makes me a little nervous, and he’s not the best defender, but I’d love to add him to the team, especially if he’s not the final piece. Another guy that has been successful coming off the bench, too.
A couple guys mentioned above aren’t going anywhere and aren’t even worth elaborating on - Wade, Maxiel etc.
Nobody commented on the Jermaine O’Neal rumor, so I will. If he’s healthy, Jermaine O’Neal would be a great power forward for the Cavs. He’s got mid range and post game, is a great rebounder and an elite shot blocker. But wow is he suspect, health wise. The rumor had Z going, and I don’t think that makes sense for the Pacers or the Cavs. A Varejao/Gibson package, maybe, but the salaries don’t really work without Z, Wally, or Ben, and there is no way Indiana wants another 6′8″ shooter on their roster, even if it’s an expiring contract. This one is too big a risk, if you ask me.
I agree the Cavs shouldn’t make a big deal in season again, unless it’s done before Christmas. I also don’t think they should maake any major deal without bringing in a bona fide number two scorer - this team doesn’t need a disruption for lateral improvements.
Boobie/James backcourt? Good luck under pressure. Boobie needs to be a shooter off the bench. West/James could still be a little shaky, but I could live with it if it meant we had added a scorer at the three.
May 27th, 2008 at 4:09 pm
I think it’s hilarious that the same people who want Michael Redd and/or Mike Miller want to use Wally’s expiring contract to facilitate such deals. At this point in their careers, what’s the major difference between Redd and Dimples Szczerbiak? Not a whole hell of a lot. They both run to the 3 point line and wait for the ball to swing around their way.
I agree with Biff. Let’s hope the Cavaliers’ bald, shiny braintrust goes after a quick PG rather than an aging SG with a max contract.
May 27th, 2008 at 4:17 pm
How about Vince Carter? I think he would work really well with LeBron and Boobie. He’s a guy who can penetrate, pass, finish on alley-oops, and shoot. New Jersey is rebuilding and has no reason to keep him around.
He wouldn’t be the long-term solution since he is past 30. But the Cavs have enough expiring deals to get something else done this year, and the #19 pick, and next summer Ben Wallace’s huge deal will be expiring.
May 27th, 2008 at 4:26 pm
WOW- A reference to a Werner Herzog film on an ohio.com blog. Definitely made my day.
May 27th, 2008 at 5:10 pm
Robin:
Put down your March 2000 Sports Illustrated for Kids and start paying attention to the modern NBA. Vince Carter is a team-killing cancer (although in all fairness to cancer, it’s really a very aggressive and persistent disease while Carter is a lazy, passive has-been).
Chuck:
Jermaine O’Neal = Corpse
Also, I don’t understand why everyone just assumes Mo Williams would be unavailable. Is he a good young point guard? Absolutely. Is he in the Deron Williams/Chris Paul Class? Not even close. While I agree that Milwaukee probably wants to include him in any rebuilding effort, he’s probably more valuable to them if he can be used to get rid of some of their bad contracts. If they moved him along with Redd and Bobby Simmons/Dan Gadzuric, it would free up their entire cap to rebuild around Yi and Bogut.
Lets look at it another way: The Bucks were a 26 win lottery team this year with Redd and Mo Williams. If they move Redd’s awful contract, they would almost certainly be a bad lottery team for at least the next couple of years going forward. Do they really need Mo Williams at 8 million a year to lead bad teams, and perhaps make them just good enough to prevent them from being bad enough to get impact players through the draft?
Instead, they could package Williams with Redd, force a team to take on more bad contracts, get draft picks in return, and then have tons of picks and few contractual obligations on the books going forward. That’s a better rebuilding plan than trading Redd but keeping Williams at 8 million a year to run a lottery team.
May 27th, 2008 at 5:41 pm
I think the cavs should resign Wally Szczerbiak and put him in training camp to get him used to and familar with him playing with Lebron James. I also think thet the cavs should try to get micheal redd, baron davis, or just get somebody in the draft that will be useful to them next season.
GO CAVS!
May 27th, 2008 at 5:51 pm
for everyone who’s clamoring for shawn marion , just think about cleveland’s “offense” , now how will marion fit ?
May 27th, 2008 at 6:15 pm
Mike C. you’re wrong about Calderson.
He is a restricted free agent this summer and has publicly stated many times now a desire to be start in the NBA. Toronto won’t be paying both of them and since no other team is going to give anything good up for Ford (Isiah Thomas was fired), a sign and trade of Calderon is the most likely conclusion.
May 27th, 2008 at 6:29 pm
hey biff , you know how i feel about oft - injured ,pushing 30 , former stars . i spoke about how jordan won his first championship at a relatively young age (27) and his running mate was a younger 25 (and that mate was acquired in the draft via a trade) and they were able to win many more championships and play many years together . so with saying all of that , what do you think about the cavs drafting chris douglas roberts ? he’s a young, athletic scorer who has a great mid range game . and like pippen did while playing with jordan , cdr could become a great player playing alongside lebron . i think in time , he can fill that void the cavs have been missing . he can be that “sidekick” everyone has been clamoring for (even lebron). i say if he’s available at 19 , you have to take a chance and draft this kid and groom him to be apart of their future . part of the cavs problems was lebron was so good so soon and the cavs were put in a “win now” position or have the fear of losing lebron. as soon as lebron came to the cavs , he increased their win total , and when ferry came aboard , he felt that they had to win now or he may bolt after his 3rd year was up . now , when draft an 18 year old kid , a franchise does not rush into the “win now” mode until a little later in that player’s career , then when it comes , you see a lot of bad signings . older veterans with bad contracts coming on board to “win now” . and that’s the approach the cavs took with lebron . it’s really hard to fault them because they did not want to risk the chance of losing such a great player so early in his career . but i say right now , you can’t pass up on the chance to draft the best available player at 19 , and cdr still might be available and i believe he is the best player available .i like that option much more than acquiring michael redd .
May 27th, 2008 at 6:43 pm
No offense but Jose Calderon IS NOT on the trading block. The Raptors and Colangelo love the guy. He’s restricted anyways so we have no legit chance. More than likely they will shop TJ Ford (no thanks). I agree with many on here; I like Williams more than Redd. Heck I’ve had him on my fantasy team the past two years and he’s done nothing but put up solid numbers. I also am a realist. If the Cavs do nothing this offseason, people will again lay the blame on Ferry and Gilbert. That animosity is misguided at best. It takes two to trade, and as BW nicely put it, every team thinks they can compete in the offseason. I honestly expect a major trade before the trade deadline; not this offseason. Redd wouldn’t be a horrible pick-up; comparing his current game to Wally’s is laughable. You obviously haven’t seen Redd play beyond the 4 times the Bucks played the Cavs. Guy can still shoot, and he actually can take the ball to the hole! Just look at the PER’s; almost 19 for Redd (which would be second best on the Cavs, and it’s his worst PER in years) to almost 14 for Wally. Simply put, Wally is much worse than Redd; don’t listen to the hype that Redd is done. the numbers show he still has something left in the tank.
May 27th, 2008 at 7:15 pm
Biff - at least Jermaine O’Neal’s corpse would come off the salary cap. What I said is that it’d be way to big a risk. I brought it up because it showed up as a rumor on ESPN.com, and Mike Brown would seem to have a connection to O’Neal from his time there.
Wouldn’t you think Mo Williams is a player the Bucks hold onto? Yeah, they’ll lose with or without him, but they are going to need a point guard, and would be lucky to find one his caliber in the draft, so why not just keep the one they’ve got? He’s on a good, long term contract that’s affordable. Redd, Bell, Simmons, Mason - those are the guys they want to deal - all either overpaid, or role players a rebuilding team doesn’t have the luxury of.
Vince Carter NO! If you want to do that, why don’t you just trade Lebron for him, ’cause that deal is sure to make bolt for the Nets. Yuck.
Nick - if the Cavs are going to go for it, they will have to continue to take some chances. Young All-Star caliber players without injury risk are pretty much never available in the NBA. Usually you’ve got to get a veteran without a few questions marks. Or roll the dice in the draft as you propose. The problem with your comparison with the Bulls and Pippen is that Pippen was the fifth overall pick in the draft. The Cavs will never get a lottery pick that high without trading for as long as Lebron is on the roster. I like Roberts and think he would be a good pick, but I’d rather bank on a proven NBA player than expect a rookie to get us over the top. And really, if Roberts produced like Redd, wouldn’t that be beyond expectations?
Regarding Marion - he seemed to do okay as a kick out shooter in Phoenix, but he’s not coming here anyway. For less money I’d rather see James Posey, who has about 3/4 of Marion’s game without the pay or the attitude. And he’s from Twinsburg.
Boston Dan:Restricted free agents rarely go anywhere. There’s no reason to think Toronto won’t give him starter’s minutes anyway.
WTF?:Redd has always been a more athletic and versatile player than Szczerbiak, and he’s younger. Miller has player point for stretches of his career, and is also younger. Both are serious upgrades over the Wally we saw after his acquisition. I’d rather plug a player of that caliber into the shooting guard spot alongside West than keep starting Szczerbiak or Pavlovic, who were both horrible. Pavlovic was the the Big Ben of our backcourt, decent D with no offense. Wally was Pavlovic without the defense.
May 27th, 2008 at 7:39 pm
Nick:
I don’t profess to be a great college talent evaluator so I can’t really give much of an educated opinion on how Chris Douglas-Roberts will project to the pros. He’s a big guard which I like and he knows how to get to the hoop and score (something we could obviously use). But here’s the thing: You can’t look at drafting a guy like CDR as an alternative to getting a veteran like Redd. It’s not apples to apples. CDR isn’t going to come in at 21 and be an impact player (19th picks rarely are). So, while drafting an athletic shooting guard might be a good move for the future, it ignores our current problem….the “win-now” mentality that you referenced is no longer a figment of our imagination. We actually have to do it.
Remember too that everything revolves around how Lebron perceives what’s going on. I hardly think that if Ferry drafted CDR and then said to Lebron, “sit tight for a couple of years even though we aren’t making any major acquisitions because we think this guy might grow into a good player,” Lebron would promptly give him the finger and then call his travel agent. Also remember that as much as I love Lebron, he shouldn’t be confused with a great talent evaluator himself(remember this is the guy that wanted the Cavs to trade the franchise for the mortal remains of Jason Kidd). So even if CDR really does have the potential to grown into a viable second option in a couple of years, Lebron might not see it (or won’t care to see it). So, overall, I have no problem drafting him, I just think its a separate issue from the trade talks because it doesn’t address the problem: the need to win within the next 2 years.
By the way, in Chad Ford’s latest mock draft, he has the bucks taking a point guard at 8. It obviously doesn’t mean very much but at least people that follow the league think there is a chance the Bucks could add to their backcourt. That would certainly help my case for Mo Williams (not that it matters…it will never happen because it makes too much sense).
May 27th, 2008 at 8:23 pm
chuck , my point is , if cdr is available at 19 , that is the best overall player available . he has top 10 talent . i know where pippen was selected , cdr in my opinion is top 10 talent . my point is , you may have to take a chance with someone in the draft,especially with that talent level of a cdr . i’m not saying cdr is going to help you win now , but i think him and lebron can be something special in the future . that “win now” philosophy since lebron arrived has led to some bad signings of some over price , on the down hill of their career vets . i’ve been hearing how cdr might still be left on the draft board when the cavs pick at 19 . if he’s still there , don’t you think his talent and upside is worth the pick ?
May 27th, 2008 at 8:37 pm
biff i’ve watched cdr this season , and if he’s still there at 19 , mark my words , it’s a STEAL . cavs have to take him . i agree with you , now the cavs are in a “win now” mode due to lebron already tasting the finals and management knowing he can bolt in 2 years . i’m just saying , the whole building process was not so good from the start . but you can’t go back in time , but dont continue to make dumb moves . now , if i can draft cdr and address other issues currently holding back this team instead of trading for michael redd , i will certaintly do it. getting michael redd alone is going to get you 10 - 15 more wins , but no championship . now with lebron being the player he is and the addition of redd , if the east remains as it currently is , they can make it out of a weak east , but that’s where it ends for them . and we are also assuming that their current “offense” is upgraded(and redd is not a defensive liability).so with just the addition of redd (assuming) , you are still not winning it all next year. but let’s just forget all the redd hypotheticals for the moment , if cdr is available at 19 , the cavs have to take him(even if his first year is nothing more than 10 -18 min a night along with some dnp cd) .
May 27th, 2008 at 8:40 pm
Nick: Pippen was picked at number 5 in the draft. CDR is going to be picked at 19, you can’t find that big of an impact player out of pick number 19. The only way for us to aquire a Pippen in the draft would be to move up.
Redd- I see his contract as a problem, it goes to 2011 with a player option. That’s not a good contract with someone with declining numbers over the past 4 years.
Jermain O’Neil- I would do this if and only if it meant getting rid of Ben Wallace. He has such a huge contract though, it’s in the 20 M range. They would have to give us their pick in the draft for me to like this. It’d also be a huge expiring in the 09 season.
Melo- We don’t have the pieces, even if he was available. The Nets offered way better then what we could have offered them.
Brand- Who knows if he is even going to be the same player he once was, even if he is we still would have a huge hole at the Shooting Guard position.
Vince Carter- Bloated contract, not the same player he used to be.
Mike Miller- His salary cheap enough that it wouldn’t impose to much cost. He’s a decent shooter and plays for team USA for a reason. We’d likely have to take on a bad contract with him, but it might be worth it. I wouldn’t be opposed to seeing if we could aquire Lowry with him (though I doubt it).
Wade- EVEN IF MIAMI WAS REBUILDING, WHY WOULD THEY TRADE WADE? He’s young enough, he could enter the process with them. If he were on the block, a better team with more pieces would likely aquire him. Not Cleveland.
Shawn Marion- He’s talented, but I don’t see him coming here.
Hinrich- This is the one guy whom I haven’t seen a lick of mention from the cavs fans. His contract is only in the 7 M range and he’s still young. It decreases as it advances and he’d likely bring depth to our backcourt. West could easily be moved to the 2 spot as well. He can’t guard the fastest guards, so he’d be guarding the 2 spot and West the 1. His shooting percentage may have went down, but he certainly hasn’t reached his prime. Added bonus: 6 to 2 assist to turnover ratio. Sure this guy wouldn’t be LeBron’s Pippen, but it would also wouldn’t hinder us and we wouldn’t be putting all our eggs in one basket. We could then try and trade for a bigger asset who is a monster in the post with our remaining expirings.
May 27th, 2008 at 9:12 pm
Hinrich’s contract is only in the 7 M range? Espn.com has his 2008 contract at over 11 M. He would be a good player to have on this team, just might be too pricey.
May 27th, 2008 at 9:27 pm
Danny Ferry’s advocate:
Where were Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili selected in their respective drafts?
May 27th, 2008 at 10:57 pm
I don’t like any of the options here, except for maybe Redd. However, the Bucks will want our 1st round pick for him I’m sure, so I think we should pass. I’d rather see us stand pat (unless the Bulls trade us Larry back for Wally straight up) and work in the 1st round pick into the rotation and give the team more time to play together. Then we’ll have a ton of expiring contracts come off the books after next season plus a few more (like Ben’s) come off the following season to give us alot of flexibility. As currently constructed, I don’t think we’re that far away right now. Basketball is a game that takes time for players to play well together. Even though Boston did a complete overhall, they had 3 all stars to work with and had all training camp to get to know each other.
Part of the problem is Lebron’s impatience. I wish he’d just play, work on his game, and concentrate on learning his teammates better. I’d sit down with Lebron after next season (hopefully after a championship or Finals appearance) and offer him the max contract. If he turns it down, I’d trade him for loads of picks plus a few young star players and go on with life after Lebron. With Brown’s defense, a few other good pieces would contend even without Lebron.
May 27th, 2008 at 11:15 pm
A few things I like about Baron Davis
3rd in league in steals
6th in league in assists
12 in scoring
A few things I do not like about Baron Davis
-sat second half of game at end of season during playoff hunt because he was too hung over to play
- injuries (some have been questioned)
- thug
the good comes with the bad it would be a big risk bringing him to cleveland however dude can ball
May 27th, 2008 at 11:17 pm
Tim in FLA, I will stop watching the NBA if lebron leaves cleveland… I couldn’t bear to watch him win a championship anywhere else…I don’t care how good of a team we had w/o him
May 27th, 2008 at 11:35 pm
Reading every single one of these incredibly delusional posts describing all of these preposterous imaginary acquisitions makes me wonder if Ferry will attempt a heroic comeback and play in the Italian League.
May 28th, 2008 at 12:04 am
dance: You won’t have to watch the NBA much longer if/when LeBron leaves….at least not in this city. I believe the team will move if and when LBJ does bolt.
A lot of people think he’s going to the Knicks, but I’d bet on the Brooklyn Nets.
May 28th, 2008 at 12:36 am
i could care less who they get. without a real nba coach this team isn’t winning anything.
May 28th, 2008 at 1:55 am
They’re fine at the coaching spot. Brown has done quite well without a legit starting backcourt. The argument that Brown isn’t the guy has been put to rest by most who know the game.
They’ll need to upgrade the roster in so many ways. PG, SG, and PF will all need to be addressed in the near future. The bench could also probably use some help too.
Windy is right to be concerned about Redd. In fact, I’m not crazy about any of the available SGs. In fact I might rather have Mo Williams than Redd and his ailing knee.
Carter - no. big contract, not a pressure player at all.
Jermaine O’Neal - huge contract, bad knees. No.
Redd - might be a good sign, but he’s 29, has a bad knee, and a huge contract. Maybe.
Brand - not happening
Miller - injury history, but as Advocate points out, he’s relatively cheap. Decent.
Heinrich - eh.
Tough spot. They may want to wait until the trade deadline to make a move, as Windy points out is likely anyway. But that would be risky because we now know how mid-season trades can turn out.
It seems the Mavs might want to start over, and I wonder if they’d be willing to part with Josh Howard. Unlikely, but its intriguing.
May 28th, 2008 at 1:57 am
Yeah…Heinrich does make 11 million, but I believe it decreases to 8 mil by the last year of his contract.
He’s average as far as PGs go, but better than anything we have.
May 28th, 2008 at 2:39 am
man if we could get Mo Williams, that would be nice.
He’s a great player. That’s instantly 3 more wins for us just because we don’;t have him KILLING US!
I think the Cavs to a man need to get better more than anything else.
If Varajeo, Sasha, and Boobie can stay healthy and play to their potential, this team is probably still playing RIGHT NOW and has the upper hand over Detroit in my opinion. That’s still not enough to get past the best in the West, but this team is still pretty good.
I think if they added a guy like williams who could break down defenses and shoot off the dribble they would be really tough.
No one on the Cavs can break down defenses except LeBron.
They need someone who can do that.
May 28th, 2008 at 3:48 am
Hinrich’s contract drops a half a million a year until 2011/2012, when it finishes at 8 million.
Regarding Baron Davis, I don’t think he’s coming to the Cavs, but where did you hear he was hung over and sat out a game. I live in the Bay Area, and I don’t remember it being reported locally. He has bad knees, but plays through pain most of the time, and played a lot this season. He’s an amazing player. I agree though, he’d be a huge risk.
Do people really think Sasha, Varejao, and Boobie are going to get a lot better?I think their potential is maybe 15-20% improvement at best.
May 28th, 2008 at 8:03 am
ferry’s advocate , i’m well aware when pippen was selected ,i’m saying if cdr falls to 19 , you have to take him . if still available , that’s the best overall talent available regardless of position . the cavs can not afford not to draft him , he could blossom into something special and what the cavs truly need . and to act as if you can’t find a gem in the draft outside of the lottery is crazy , everyone is clamoring for michael redd and he was not a lottery pick and i believe he was picked beyond the 19th pick . it’s foolish to think you can’t find an impact player at 19 , and if cdr is available ,it’s foolish to pass him up .
May 28th, 2008 at 8:10 am
lecavalier , tony was drafted with the 28th pick of the first round , manu was drafted in the 2nd round with the 57th overall pick . those are 2 impact players that help lead the spurs to 3 titles , it’s crazy to think you can’t get an impact player at 19 . as a gm ,you have to do your homework
May 28th, 2008 at 8:55 am
“With Brown’s defense, a few other good pieces would contend even without Lebron.”
Tim? What are you smoking down there in Plantation Florida? What are those “few other good pieces” that you speak of? No, the biggest part of the problem right now is that the help isn’t good enough.
May 28th, 2008 at 9:49 am
Trade LeBron and reacquire Hughes–We need to get an ambulance to Plantation for Tim.
My guess is the Cavs will do very little this summer as several big name players will move.
Sadly, nothing much will change with the team while Z is still playing a central role. I like Z, but he is grossly overrated by the franchise and local media as a second option and his game demands a style of play that is at cross-purposes to LeBron’s.
May 28th, 2008 at 10:41 am
I wish Lebron would just leave cleveland already,. does he not realize he deserves better then this team??? what is wrong wth him? Many other people will appriciate him more and they will give him a better team
LEBRON PLEASE DEMAND A TRADE
May 28th, 2008 at 12:30 pm
Hey Brian love reading your stuff…could you tell me though how we can get BD???If Barion has a expiring contract why would they trade him for another expiring contract(Walley), whos no where near the player BD is. I would love Barion in a Cavs uni but how is this possable? Ive been reading this allover and just dont understand how that would work. Thanks.
GO CAVS!!!
May 28th, 2008 at 12:43 pm
I have absolutely no idea who this “cdr” supposedly is, saw I immediately looked up “cdr” on Wikipedia. Based upon my Wikipedia research, Ferry intends to draft “Contents of Decrement Register in the programming language Lisp.” I especially love the very idea of drafting a guy with a “Lisp.” So forget renting Flip Wilson, uh, I mean Flip Murray for 28 games. This Lisp guy will be Ferry’s best move ever, we need a powerful influence in the locker room.
May 28th, 2008 at 12:57 pm
Let me start off by saying that I want to see Lebron in a Cavs uniform until he retires. That being said, if after next season, he opts out of his contract and just has the 2009/2010 season left, he turns down a max-contract extension offer from the Cavs, what are the Cavs supposed to do? If he turns down a max offer, then obviously he’s indicating that he doesn’t want to play for the Cavs anymore and will sign elsewhere after the 2009/2010 season. Remember, no-one can offer him as much as the Cavs. So the Cavs should just ride out one more year with Lebron then and hope that they win it all and then be left with nothing after he leaves? That’s why I think you have to trade him at that point to get some value in return. I’m sure some team would give up a very good young player (like Greg Oden for example) and some first round picks to get Lebron. Heck, I’d trade him to a team that thinks they can sign him long term so we could get the max value for him. I don’t want to trade him, but I just don’t want to be left with nothing either. As long as the Cavs are in Cleveland, I’ll be a Cavs fan no matter who’s on the team.
I know everyone ridicules me for my Larry Hughes re-acquisition thoughts, but if we only had to give up Wally and maybe a 2nd round pick (may not have to give that up), why not do it if Larry was OK with it? You don’t think this team would be better as it is now with Larry at the 2 instead of Wally? Our perimeter defense would be instantly top-notch again. Larry was drving to the hole alot more this year once he came back from his injury. He can run, and he can still score even though he’s a streaky shooter. Would Sasha be a better option at the 2 than Larry? As far as salary is concerned, we’d only have Larry’s salary for one extra year past Wally’s, and his contract would expire at the same time as Ben’s. Also, we could keep our #1 picks. People seem to forget how well we were playing last year with Larry, and that was with a weak front court. Now, our front court is deep and we have Delonte to take the point duties to allow Larry to not to have to handle the ball. Oh well, just my 2 cents.
May 28th, 2008 at 1:52 pm
So the solution is preemptively trading James without evening knowing what his intentions will be in 2 years? Unbelievable.
I’m starting to think Michael Redd is not a good idea. He’s 29, blew out a knee a season ago and makes around $17 Million/year. His numbers have also been in a bit of a decline, too.
I think if we trade for any player on MIL it’s got to be Mo Williams. He’s half the price of Redd and he’s several years younger. Williams would be the point guard who can knock down 3’s, get in the paint and push the tempo— FINALLY!
Add him to our two man team of LeBron and Coach Brown and things look a lot better.
Know if only Fairy would see things my way….
May 28th, 2008 at 2:02 pm
LeBron. Here are Cleveland’s best players in order:
1. LeBron
2. Zydrunas Ilgauskas = 32 years old, last made all-star team in 2005, averages of 14.1 points/9.3 rebounds/1.4 assists
3. Delonte West, = I’m a fan of West, but he didn’t even start for the abysmal 20-win Sonics. Averages with Cavs of 10.3/3.7/4.5
4. Joe Smith = 32 years old, and Sports Illustrated named him the 4th biggest bust of all time just a few years ago (that selection was unfair but still). Smith isn’t a bust in my mind, but it’s not a good sign for your team if you rely on him as heavily as Cleveland did in the postseason. Averages with Cavs of 8.1/5.0/0.7
5. Ben Wallace = 33 years old, last made all-star team in 2006, no shooting touch whatsoever, and his defense has slipped. Averages wih Cavs of 4.2/7.4/0.6
6. Wally Szczerbiak = 31 years old, last made all-star team in 2002, has quickness of an average 30-year old white male, gets abused on defense. Averages with Cavs of 8.2/3.2/1.4
Their bench is mediocre too. Most of their best players are old, slow, past their prime, and not exactly superstars in their prime either. LeBron averages twice as many points as Cleveland’s 2nd leading scorer. LeBron won’t win a championship with Cleveland unless they get him another star.
May 28th, 2008 at 2:06 pm
Tim, because you are jumping the gun if you do. If I understand the current cba correctly, if Lebron signs a max extension in 2009, it would be for $80 million for 4 years. If he waits until the summer of 2010 when he is unrestricted free agent, he can sign a contract for $150 million for 6 years. Bosh and Wade are in the same boat and I highly doubt either of those guys are going to sign extensions next year either.
May 28th, 2008 at 2:37 pm
So Biff, he can’t sign after next year and have the contract start in 2010 and get the 150 million? Well, if that’s the case, then I guess we have no choice but to stick it out and hope for the best. But we’ll be destroyed if he leaves, though. He expiring contract would do little to make up for the loss.
May 28th, 2008 at 2:38 pm
Sorry, I meant BB not Biff.
May 28th, 2008 at 3:01 pm
“They’re fine at the coaching spot. Brown has done quite well without a legit starting backcourt. The argument that Brown isn’t the guy has been put to rest by most who know the game.”
yeah, sure benny. you keep believing that.
May 28th, 2008 at 4:11 pm
TO CHUCK;
I also live in the bay area and therefore have many friends who follow the warriors religously…Here is the link to the game that I am referring to
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3349322
The hang over story might be a rumor, however on the warriors main blog, GOLDEN STATE OF MIND, it was talked about how Davis was having his big bday party (birthday is april 13) the night before the game dispite warnings from team to take it easy, needless to say he had the party, came in had a horrible first half, benched by Nelson the entire second half,
If he was hung over noone will really know, but from the local blogs he did have his party the night before and was probably out all night
May 28th, 2008 at 4:15 pm
It has to do with Lebron becoming a seven year veteran and then being able to ask for 30% of the salary cap. Click on my name for the details.
Lebron passing on the extension is more about maximizing his cash, not necessarily about where he wants to be long term.
May 28th, 2008 at 4:16 pm
Nick:certainly you find good players outside of the lottery, but it’s the exception. Look at the history @ 19, and for every Zach Randolph there’s a handfull of Don MacLeans and Acie Earl. Yeah, you take the best player there, and I even said I like Douglas-Roberts, but you can’t depend on anyone taken in that spot to have a significant impact. Period.
Tim:Larry Hughes burned his bridges here. You don’t trade for a player you traded because he demanded a trade. I can’t believe I just typed that.
James: Regarding Delonte West, don’t put too much stock in the Sonics’ rotation. They had two guys, Watson and Ridenour, with multiyear deals @ 6.5M each ahead of him in their backcourt when they traded for him, and with Durant he wasn’t going to see a lot of minutes at shooting guard, either, since they had to play Green, Wilkins, and Szczerbiak at the three.
I still can’t see why Milwaukee would trade Mo Williams. He’s got a good long term deal and is probably the best up tempo point guard in the Eastern Conference.
May 28th, 2008 at 4:52 pm
Tim in Plantation FL… cocaine must be a helluva drug.
Would I like the Cavs to pick up 2 or 3 of the free agents listed above? Sure, that’d be swell. Unlikely, but sure, we can dream. Unfortunately, these are the Cleveland Cavaliers, run by Danny Ferry, so a more likely scenario looks like this:
The Cavs wait until the NBA Draft to get the ball rolling, since they decided to take some time off after the season ended rather than using the advantage of a 2nd round playoff exit by getting a jump start on the offseason. No, Danny, dont go scouting players, or go to the predraft workouts. You’ve had a long season of sitting in your luxury suite and watching games. Just relax, it isnt like you have draft picks to work with this year right?
During the draft, the Washington Wizards pick Chris Douglas-Roberts at 18, sending Ferry into a panic induced seizure. Making Chad Ford look semi-intelligent for the first time EVER, he responds by calmly selecting Kosta Koufos, followed by quotes such as “He has really soft hands” and “You cant find a Center with an NIT championship pedigree just anywhere”. Koufos promptly tears his ACL boarding the plane to Cleveland.
After his pick, Ferry offers the Clippers Sasha, Wally, and their two 2nd round picks for Elton Brand. Donald Sterling sends a text message response: “LOL”.
In the second round, Ferry elects to take Greg Pawlus of Duke, and immediately demands that Pawlus start at PG. LeBron sends a text message response: “LOL”.
The Cavs sell their other draft pick, citing the luxury tax debacle from last season.
… No, in all seriousness, I’ll just settle for a solid draft in which the Cavs get 2 rotation players of the 3 picks they have. If they get Chris Douglas-Roberts, I’ll be absolutely thrilled. No trades seem to make sense right now, so why make one just to make one? Focus on the draft and hopefully Ferry doesnt screw it up.
No pressure, just the fate of the franchise riding on it…
May 28th, 2008 at 4:54 pm
Someone deleted doc’s update on the Ferry Wikipedia entry. Old Boatshoes has minions everywhere.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danny_Ferry#Biography
May 28th, 2008 at 5:21 pm
hey chuck , if cdr is available at 19 , i don’t expect him to make an impact right away . but i do think he can make an impact in 2 years . with his size and ability , you don’t bypass him in the draft . a 2 guard i would like to see the cavs try and get is jr smith . sure he had his off the court problems and at times his shot selection has not always been the best . but a lot of his problems are due to his lack of maturity (he even has a dumb nickname , “young rich”) . but with age , i believe he will mature on and off the court , what he went through last summer (friend getting killed in a car he was driving) has matured him a bit this season . his skills can’t be denied , he can shoot the 3 , has a nice mid range , can handle the rock , can score off the dribble , and is athletic as hell .he’s younger than lebron . lebron can be a great influence on not only his game , but how to carry himself like a professional .can you imagine lebron on one wing and jr smith on the other running the break ? i think if you’re a gm and have a big hole at the 2 guard spot and desperately need shooting and scoring(along with youth) , you have to call denver and see what it takes to make a deal .
May 28th, 2008 at 5:27 pm
Chuck:
If you looked at Mo Williams in a vaccum, I agree that there would be no reason to think about trading him. But you can’t just look at the player or even just the player and his contract. You have to look at the team as a whole. The Bucks are bad, capped out team that can’t even begin to rebuild for at least 3 years unless they make some major moves.
Clearly, move number 1 will be to trade Redd. The problem, as I see it, however, is that given Redd’s age, declining production, bloated long-term contract, and injury history, the team probably can’t get much more than just expiring money in return for him (I would be shocked if a team took on on Simmons’ or Gadzuric’s horrible contracts just to take on Redd’s horrible contract….and if it’s the Cavs that do this, I will officially go ballistic). Then, a year later, the money you’ve saved by moving Redd puts you back under the salary cap (barely) and you still have a 25 win team with no flexibility.
Now, lets say instead of just moving Redd, you tell a team like the Cavs that you will also discuss Mo Williams. Now you can basically demand the moon and the stars because you’re offering up a 25 year old potential future all star who is signed to a reasonable long-term deal. Now you can tell team X that they MUST take on Bobby Simmons’ contract (and possibly even Bell’s or Gadzuric’s) and you can still demand draft picks and probably get them.
So in scenario 1 (trading Redd only) you are left with a team that is still almost capped out, can probably only win 25 games, has only their own draft picks which will be at the low end of the lottery, and still can’t really make any moves until about 2010. But, in all fairness, you have an awesome young point guard to run your crappy embarassment of a team.
In scenario 2, said point guard and his 8 million a year contract are gone along with Redd’s 18 million a year deal and Simmons’ 9 million a year deal. Your team is one of the worst in the league and can probably only expect to win 15-20 games for the next year or two. But, you are about to have basically no cap obligations, 2 high lottery picks coming in the next two years plus the number 1(s) you get from Redd/Williams deal. So a couple of years down the road, you have a couple of high lottery picks playing along with Yi and Bogut, at least one more first rounder for depth, and 1 or 2 high-level free agents to add to this mix. This team would be assembled around the same time the team in scenario 1 would finally be unearthing itself from the crushing weight of its cap obligations.
Now, I ask you: If you were a thoughtful GM (and this is about 10% of real life GM’s) which would you rather choose.
I like to think if this as what I call the Florida Marlins Theory. The Marlins have been terrible for most of the last decade or so, yet mysteriously have 2 world titles to their name (2 more world titles than a lot of other teams have that have competed at a high level with a lot more consistency over that same period). They’ve figured out that if you just tear down an organization to its core and then fill it up with the best young talent in the game while trading off all your valuable assets, eventually you will have the best talent in the game and you’ll win a title. Then, you can strip that team down completely and repeat the same process all over again. On the other hand you have teams that never completely go into rebuilding mode and always seem to be stuck in that endless cycle of mediocrity (a cycle that is a lot more prevalent in the NBA than any other sport).
As a fan base, what would you rather have? A couple world titles smashed into a lot of bad seasons or a team that is always just good enough to never get better.
This, in a nutshell, is why I think the Bucks can trade away Mo Williams. You can’t half-ass rebuilding. You either strip down and get bad before you get good or you’ll be a 25-35 win team for years.
May 28th, 2008 at 5:45 pm
LeCavalier: Where are Manu and Tony Parker from and now where is CDR from? You can get international players that will contribute at differant spots.
Nick: This draft might be very deep, but I don’t see him being able to contribute right away. Yeah Redd was drafted at 19, but it took time to develop him. He didn’t just come in and dominate.
KGB: Hoopshype says otherwise, 10 M in 08-09 then 9.5 M 09-10, 9 M 10-11, 11-12 8 M. Still cheaper then Redd by a lot and would give us another option to aquire a power forward as well. Redd is up to 17 M, with Snow filing disability retirement I don’t believe we can trade him which reduces what we have avalable in expirings.
James: Apparently you haven’t heard of Boobie Gibson.
May 28th, 2008 at 5:53 pm
If Z is still considered our “2nd best player” come opening night 2008 then the result in the 2009 NBA playoffs will be the same as it was this past May.
Changes must be made this summer. Not before the trade deadline. I’m tried of hearing the familiar chemistry spin dished out by McClown, Phelps, Campy, etc.
Get it done this off-season!
May 28th, 2008 at 6:40 pm
danny ferry’s advocate , like redd , i don’t expect cdr to come in and dominate right away (i never said this) . but i like my chances with him in the future than any 2 guard that’s available right now . like i said before , since lebron came to the cavs , all they have done is sign or trade for aging players on the down side of their careers with bad contracts (or signing them to a bad contract)and it seems like that is what people want the cavs to do again this summer in the name of making a deal .cdr is a talent and if you have the chance to draft him , you do so and develop him for your future
May 28th, 2008 at 8:59 pm
Biff: I just don’t see any team taking on Redd, Williams, AND Simmons. By my count, those three are worth $35 million alone. What team a.) would take that on or b.) could put a package to match that salary?
Even if the Cavs could put together a package that meets that salary requirement, I highly doubt they would be willing to take that all on.
May 28th, 2008 at 9:51 pm
The Cavs could match the salary but you’re absolutely right: the luxury tax bill would be through the roof. It would be up to Gilbert to decide whether its worth paying that kind of money to increase his chances of keeping Lebron (if he actually believes the chances would be increased).
It’s all a moot point anyway though. None of this is ever going to happen. The Bucks probably won’t discuss Mo Williams although they should and the Cavs will end up making some dumbass trade where they give up expirings and picks for Mike Redd…then they’ll proceed to win 52 games and lose in the Eastern Conference Finals. I can already see it happening.
May 28th, 2008 at 10:09 pm
Danny Ferry - I believe that Michael Redd was drafted in the late 2nd round - around pick # 50 something. I remember this vividly because as an OSU alum, I watched Redd alot in college and I thought he’d be a good NBA player and I couldn’t figure out why so many teams were passing on him. I remember that he was still on the board when the Cavs made their 2nd round pick that year. I was ticked that the Cavs didn’t take him. I don’t even remember who the Cavs picked that year, but I don’t think the guy made it in the NBA. Someone correct me if I’m wrong.
May 28th, 2008 at 10:14 pm
OK, I was close - Redd was drafted 43rd overall. I think the Cavs picked a pick or two ahead of Milwaukee that year.
May 28th, 2008 at 10:26 pm
Here’s a name: Rudy Gay. Love this guy, who is putting up big numbers for a young player, albeit for one of the worst teams in the league. But he’s a legit 20ppg guy with good shooting range and solid defense. What would it take to pry him away from Memphis? He seems to me like a younger, cheaper alternative to Corey Maggette.
May 28th, 2008 at 11:16 pm
Hey, somebody deleted doc’s Ferry update on Wikipedia. I love the reason that schmuck gave for deleting it: “Removed potentially slanderous comments that were opinion rather than fact.” Well, first it would technically be libel, not slander. Unless doc’s update contained a Podcast, or something. Second, precisely what about doc’s update did that dodo consider to be slanderous? (actually libelous). Frankly, I see nothing legally questionable in words that state Ferry is a buffoon, has amazingly ruined the Cavaliers twice in two different decades, and enjoys it when others see his little ankle hairs sans socks. It all seemed pretty factual to me.
May 28th, 2008 at 11:52 pm
Randolph - is Rudy a legit possibility. I like the idea a lot.
Alan - what did it say about Ferry? Wikipedia usually does a pretty good job of staying effective.
May 29th, 2008 at 12:25 am
In answer to your question regarding doc’s quizessential Wikipedia update, since deleted by a Ferry-lover whose IP address is located somewhere in the Chicago area, here it was … yes, doc neglected to mention Ilgauskas’ absolutely ridiculous bidding against yourself 60-year contract with the built-in 15% trade escalation kicker, but still, the update was still quite Funk & Wagnalls-worthy:
“Unfortunately, a series of horrible personnel decisions has ruined his reputation in the eyes of most of the NBA. He gave a maximum contract to a borderline decent player, Larry Hughes. Mega deals were made for mariginal players like Donyell Marshall and Damon Jones. As s result, the Cavaliers go into the 2008-09 season a one man band, paralyzed by a bloated payroll, a roster filled with mediocre, aging players. The real reason for the Cavalier success (Lebron James) can become an unrestricted free agent after the 2010 season. The clock is ticking on the window of opportunity. Danny Ferry may yet succeed in destroying the aspirations of a Cavalier team for the second time; once as a player, now as the hapless general manager.
He also has acquired the nickname “Boatshoes” during his tenure as GM. As a an elitist, east coast Dukie, he is exactly the sort of guy you would expect to find wearing boatshoes without socks, jeans a little short so you can see his ankle hairs.”
May 29th, 2008 at 1:05 am
biff: you’re an idiot. ferry has had exactly ONE 1st round pick since he got here - and that wasn’t until the what, 25th pick? how do you accumulate all-star talent:
- when you have no draft picks;
- the “marquee” players resign with their home teams for the max contract;
- the 2004 pick you inherited suffers a career affecting injury;
if you want to hammer ferry for drafting shannon brown, (i would - he’s a MSU guard who’s really only 6′1″) but who else would have been a player that would have made an impact? jordan farmar? he’s only playing 15-20MPG with the lakers.
when you consider the dregs we had to draw from, mike brown deserves a lot of credit for turning them into a cohesive defensive unit which was clearly greater than the sum of its parts. too bad most of the cleveland fans are seemingly oblivious to that accomplishment.
May 29th, 2008 at 6:04 am
What is this going to do to Varejoe’s trade value?
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3416579
May 29th, 2008 at 6:48 am
Barry: Ferry’s had exactly 3 picks - Shannon Brown, Daniel Gibson, and Ujobike (or however the hell you say it; it doesn’t matter cause he won’t ever play in the league).
May 29th, 2008 at 6:48 am
It’s as simple as standing at the line and sinking free throws. The Cavaliers were the 4th worst team in the NBA from the free throw line and had a very small point differential for the season. Why does any NBA player shoot less than 75% from the line? It’s a lack of practice, coaching, or mental toughness. I’ve rarely coached a junior high girl who can’t approach 75% from the line. Is the Cavs practice facility in Independence making them a better team or a softer team. Get rid of the XBOX 360s and get these players on the free throw line. That’s how Ferry, Price, and Kerr did it back in their day.
May 29th, 2008 at 8:38 am
“Waiting for comments on Carmelo. . .”
Yah of course, makes a lot of sense to pick up another SF when we already have arguably the best SF in the league. Not to mention, Melo and Lebron don’t work well together, Even in high school they were opponents. Never gonna happen!
May 29th, 2008 at 11:08 am
More thoughts:
- Is it arguable that we have the best small forward in the league? Is there anyone who would argue this?
- I think there’s some real potential in a trade with Milwaukee, but it relies on Milwaukee pulling a Memphis or a Minnesota and basically giving away talented players for little in return. I have a tough time believing that if Williams was on the table, the Cavs would be the team with the best offer. Williams is the type of player you could package to bring in a guy like Carmelo or Arenas. And that’s what the Bucks need to do, because they aren’t going to be able to lure free agents to Milwaukee very easily, even with a ton of cap space.
- That brings up another point: you don’t win championships in the NBA through Free Agency. Big-time Free Agent signings who changed teams over the last 3 years: Larry Hughes, Ben Wallace, Mike James, Peja Stojakovic. And that’s pretty much it. Anybody who is any good signs with their current team, even if its just as part of a sign-and-trade (like Rashard Lewis last year). The only way exceptional players move is through trades (which might make some people feel better about LeBron leaving, no one near his caliber has ever changed teams without compensation).
- That doesn’t mean that salary cap space isn’t helpful. When a team is under the cap, they don’t have to make the salaries match up in a trade, so they can trade a low-priced player for a high-priced player. It’s a huge factor in good sign-and-trade deals. But you have to have something of value to trade, so you can’t sell off all of your assets.
- The point of all this is, whenever someone wants to pry a good player away from a bad team, they always talk about the value of salary cap space. But as the Cavs have proven, all salary cap space buys you is the Larry Hughes’, Damon Jones’, and Donyell Marshall’s of the world. The prospects of adding those types of players might not be enough incentive for the Bucks to pass on a young, up-and-coming star like Mo Williams. No, I’d expect they want real, tangible value for Williams, not flexibility for the future.
- Teams that would get significantly better with Mo Williams as their point guard: Cleveland, Chicago, Indiana, Boston, New York, Orlando, Atlanta, Charlotte, Miami, Denver, Portland, Minnesota, Seattle, LA Lakers, LA Clippers, Sacramento, Houston, and Memphis. And that’s being kind to the likes of Jason Kidd, Devin Harris, and Andre Miller. That’s 18 teams that would love to make a deal for Mo Williams, and I’m not sure that the Cavs are the team that could put together the most attractive package.
- Then again, most of those same 18 teams would have really benefitted from having Pau Gasol on them, and look where he ended up.
May 29th, 2008 at 11:13 am
Actually, Ferry has had four draft picks in his three seasons of destruction, not three. But being the wild and crazy guy he is, a 70’s Steve Martin wearing a funny white suit and making animal balloons, he didn’t use the pick. Or don’t you remember when Ferry was the Jerry West behind the acquisition of future Euroleague megastar Martynas Andriuskevicius in exchange for a Cavaliers 2006 second-round draft pick and cash.
A rare video of Ferry in action. Or possibly this is his father Bob, the way Bob subtly tortured Bullets fans for so many goddamn years, I can’t tell, the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bI–TGQGNFc
May 29th, 2008 at 12:04 pm
Mike C:
Excellent post. Really, I can’t dispute anything that you said. Most of my posting tried to hammer home the point that under the right circumstances, it would make sense for the Bucks to trade Mo Williams. I never actually said the Cavs would be the team with the best offer. As you pointed out, there is a good possibility that even the hint that Williams has become available would create a feeding frenzy among NBA GMs. I’m not saying we could successfully pull off the deal. I’m just saying its worth a shot.
Now, on to you Barry:
Here is why YOU, sir, are the worst kind of moron: the apologist moron.
The fundamental difference between me and you is that you apparently think that professional sports should be divorced from the rest of the world and that coaches, GMs, and other executives should somehow operate in a consequence free workplace. I, on the other hand, think that these individuals should be held to the same standard as the rest of us: when you are hired (and compensated handsomely) to do a job, it’s your responsibility to ensure that the job is successfully completed. You aren’t put in a supervisory or managerial position and paid to make educated guesses and come up with viable excuses as to why you failed to complete the tasks assigned. When you are given the title and the money, it’s because you have been given the burden of accountability. The buck is going to stop with you and when it’s time for heads to role because the organization has failed to complete its objectives, yours is going to be the first to roll.
Now, lets apply this principle to Danny Ferry. In 2005, Ferry was given a $10 million dollar contract (with no prior GM experience) and told to build a championship calliber team. As a starting point to achieve this task, he was given $28 million dollars worth of cap space and the most devastating offensive force in all of basketball (and keep in mind, Lebron is 1 player in a sport that only requires you to play 5 at a time and really only requires you to have about 9 quality players on your roster).
Now, here is where you and I take different roads. You want to look at the guys Ferry signed and tell me why all of them were good ideas at the time. Then you want to tell me that the marketplace for free agents isn’t really conducive to making impact acquisitions. Then you want to continue to play the world’s smallest violin as you tell me that Ferry was hampered by a lack of draft picks. Now, I could go through each of those points and dispute them but here’s the thing: IT DOESN’T MATTER. You don’t pay a guy $2 million a year and put him in charge of your entire operation so that he can come back to you a few years later and give you good excuses as to why he completely failed to achieve his one objective. If all that was required of an NBA GM was to make good educated guesses about roster management, you could pay any of us to do it for a lot less than $2 million bucks a year. But that’s not why GMs get paid so much Barry. They get paid that much TO GET IT RIGHT and they know that the big catch that comes with all the money and power is responsibility for the finished product. They know that if they don’t get it right, all the excuses, obstacles, and extenuating circumstances in the world are no defense. They weren’t hired to make excuses. They were hired to build a winner and in this respect, Ferry has failed. Yes, I know they went to an NBA finals, and in accordance with my theory, he gets credit for this because he’s the man in charge. But at the same time, we all know that the team was still miles away from being the best in the NBA, that the roster, aside from Lebron, is still terrible, and that the win totals from the regular season tell a sad story about how good this team really is. Danny Ferry was hired to build a winner Barry, not to make excuses. He failed.
Now you’re probably thinking, “well hell, there can only be one winner every year,” and you’re right. But again, I remind you that that’s why GMs are paid the kind of dollars they’re paid…Because it’s very difficult to succeed and chances are, they’re going to be out of a job before long and somebody else is going to be given a chance to succeed where they failed. So, in conclusion, I remind you that Danny Ferry is not so different from you and I. If we’re told to accomplish something in our careers and we continually fail, we’re going to get fired. We don’t get to make excuses or give long-winded explanations. Professionals are results oriented people Barry, and If you don’t get results, you’re out. Stop giving professional sports figures the type of benefit of the doubt that you and I would never be given.
As for Mike Brown, the same analysis I just used for Ferry applies but I’ll also give you the following little hypothetical: If every coache’s offensive and defensive abilities were rated on a 1 to 100 scale and you found a coach that was rated a 50 on defense and a 50 on offense, what would you call him? Probably a mediocre at best type of coach right? Now, same grading scale only the coach is a 90 on defense and a 10 on offense.
According to you, I should be fellating Mike Brown because he happens to be exceptionally good with respect to one attribute. You want me to completely ignore the fact that he’s pathetically deficient in regard to the other. I’m Sorry Barry but apparently I’m not as smart as you. All I see is that same mediocre at best coach in a different package….and I see him stubbornly refusing to address his deficiencies by bringing in help and I also see him wasting the career of the game’s best player.
In conclusion Barry, my advice to you is to get a life. Stop telling me how big of an idiot I am because I hold people in position’s of power accountable for their failures. Maybe in your little fantasy world, good intentions and reasonable excuses are enough, but I, for one, am sick of it.
Just for good measure, I’m including a little link to brighten your day.
http://hoopshype.com/general_managers/danny_ferry.htm
May 29th, 2008 at 9:11 pm
Looks like the Bulls are bringing back Doug Collins. Who says you can’t bring a guy back if you get rid of him? OK, so they fired him 19 years ago, which is a little different than the Cavs bringing back Larry Hughes after trading him a few months ago. Maybe I can start a new website - I should call it “bringlarryhome.com”.
May 29th, 2008 at 10:06 pm
Tim… Drop the Larry Hughes nonesense, RIGHT now. I wouldnt bring that load of crap back to Cleveland if his contract came OFF the cap, he’s that useless.
All of this talk about the Cavs roster and yet no mention of the fact that adding 1 or 2 impact players would get them to that plateau of the top 4-5 teams in the league. They took Boston to 7 games and probably should have beaten them. I believe they would beat the Pistons in a 7 game series. While the West is awfully tough, the Cavs have favorable records against many of those elite teams.
Biff, I’m not ready to write off Danny Ferry just yet. Did his spending orgy of Hughes, Marshall, and Jones completely cripple the Cavs’ salary cap? Unequivocally, yes. Have his drafts been hit or miss (when he’s had the picks)? Sure, very sketchy. The bottom line, however, is that he has the entire offseason, the upcoming draft, and two more seasons to figure out the puzzle. To sign him off as a failure would be premature at this stage.
Not that I’m defending Danny Ferry, far from it, but one has to be honest when assessing the mess he took over when he arrived. The Jim Paxson/Paul Silas combo probably hurt LeBron’s development more than anything, when you consider that:
-They gave Darius Miles a monsterous contract the year before the Cavs hit the jackpot.
-They drafted decent players like DeSagana Diop and Jason Kapono, only to give up on them and basically get nothing in return.
-They, along with Gordon Gund, completely botched the Carlos Boozer situation, allowing him to become the backstabbing scumbag he turned out to be and costing us the perfect robin for LeBron’s batman.
-They pissed away so many draft picks on their way out the door, the Cavs are just now getting back into the habit of PARTICIPATING in the NBA draft this year. Not to mention those picks brought us the likes of Jiri freaking Welsch.
A solid draft and some roster improvement this year, paired with the cap relief we’ll have following next season, and let’s see where the Cavs are when judgement day comes. I’m not fully convinced that LeBron’s left Nike is already out the door like most of you, so I’m prepared to wait it out and see where we end up. Ferry still has time in my mind, but the first 3 years havent been as productive as I’d like, no question.
May 29th, 2008 at 10:22 pm
Huh? Not that it matters, but the Blazers gave Miles that contract; nobody except the Mavericks thought Diop would add up to anything, and everybody in the NBA went “Huh?” when the Mavericks signed him; and last, but not least, Ferry could have easily signed Kapono after Charlotte gave up on him. The only valid thing you stated, Josh, was the Boozer thing. And they could have re-upped Boozer by matching, but didn’t.
May 30th, 2008 at 1:35 am
Josh, you forgot about:
1. The contracts, Paxson gave to Snow and Newble
2. First round picks wasted on Luke Jackson, Dajuan Wagner, Haywood, and Langdon
3. Andre Miller was drafted by the Cavs, and traded.
4. Jamal Crawford, was drafted by the Cavs, and traded.
Imagine what the Cavs would have looked like with Miller, Crawford, Lebron Boozer and Z.
But to be honest, if Paxson’s brain hadn’t detached the moment he became the Cav’s GM, we would have never been in position to draft Lebron.
Nevertheless, I still hate him.
Alan, no they couldn’t, the “Gilbert Arenas” provision wasn’t in effect yet. The Cavs didn’t have the cap space to match the Jazz’s offer.
May 30th, 2008 at 12:21 pm
Ummm … isn’t that kinda stoopid? You caught yourself, though. And actually, they could have scrambled to match the Boozer offer. But that would have meant everything Gund was trying to avoid, which was maximum bucks to line his pockets for the sale. Unbelievable, when you think about it. Naive people portray Gund as a benevolent blind man doing that stuff out of the kindness of his heart, when indeed he was a slick shrewd dude trying to get Boozer for the next owner for Gooden money.
But as I said, you caught yourself, if Paxson had made smart moves, then they would have never been in position to draft James in the first place!!! Nope, this is 100% on Ferry.
May 30th, 2008 at 2:52 pm
Alan, the Cavs gave Darius Miles a horrible contract (4 yr, $50 mil I believe?) long before he ever sniffed the sweet mary jane in Portland.
I realize the Cavs had to be that awful to get a player like James, but one you got him, look around. Ricky Davis, Darius Miles, Ira Newble, Eric Snow… what a mess of a team. And it didnt help that Paul Silas slept through most games. Yeah, things have certainly been worse for this franchise.
Look Alan, we all know that your intense hatred of Danny Ferry has clouded any possible semblence of rational, unbiased thought, but to constantly rip and blame the front office the way you do is crazy. You sound like someone with an ax to grind. Do you have an ax, Alan?
As I said above, the jury is still out. This regime still has time, and there are pieces in place. Let’s see where we are in 2 years.
May 30th, 2008 at 10:20 pm
Seriously, Josh, lay off the pipe. Yet again, for the 20th time, he BLAZERS signed Miles to a new multiyear contract. The Cavs had absolutely nothing to do with it, and I have absolutely no idea what’s packed in that pipe to make you think they did. Whatever it is, give me some.
And the jury ain’t out. The jury is already in. Deliberations don’t take years. Ferry blew it.
May 31st, 2008 at 5:13 pm
Grampa Alan, did Ferry sleep with your granddaughter? I know you’re rooting and fist pumping every time something bad happens to the Cavs, and if LeBron were ever to leave Cleveland you’d die a happy, albeit still disillusioned, man. You couldnt be more hateful or biased, and I want to know why. Deep down, why do you hate Cleveland and the Cavs so much? Can you be honest with me, or would it ruin your schtick on Windy’s site?
But for God’s sake, 3 deep playoff runs, 1 trip to the Finals, and enough pieces in place to make a run at it for AT LEAST 2 more years. That cant be viewed a failure until the run is over. And it isnt over yet.
My God, even worse Alan, I looked it up and the Cavs traded Andre Miller to the Clippers for Miles, who had 3 years and nearly 30 million left on his deal at the time. Good grief, isnt that almost WORSE? I say yes…
May 31st, 2008 at 6:12 pm
Josh, what in the world are you talking about? Never mind your horrible case of fan-initis, which apparently has as great a chance of permanently disappearing as a 152nd outbreak of genital herpes. Miles was on his rookie contract, his very first contract. They stopped giving insane contracts to unproven rookies effective with Glenn Robinson’s agent’s insane demands, and they made it part and parcel of the next CBA. In Miles’ first year, and I’m rounding off numbers here, he made $2.8 million; his second year he made $3.1 million; his third year he made $3.3 million; and his fourth year he made $4.1 million. I honestly haven’t the foggiest clue what you’re talking about.
If there’s rose-colored glasses, then you’re wearing rose-colored LASIK surgery, and it’s laser-beam focused. The Cleveland Cavaliers can do no wrong. But getting back to my point, and speaking of rose-colored, Rose Garden, or whatever, in 2004, Steve Patterson and Paul Allen completely lost their respective minds, were enchanted by Miles’ substantial improvement after they got him from Cleveland, pulled a major Ferry by bidding against themselves, and signed him to an estimated $48 million, six-year deal. Then Miles started moping, complaining, got a bad attitude, got hurt, and tanked his career.
And all your nonsense is dopey anyway. If they hadn’t gotten rid of Miller, then they would have been better. If they would have been better, then Ilgauskas & Co. would have never been in position to bumble and stumble their way to a 17-65 record, and more likely than not, Cleveland would be without an NBA franchise right now. Indeed, this blog wouldn’t exist and we wouldn’t be having this discussion.
And “deep playoff runs?” Well, “the runs” is one way to look at it. Although, I prefer calling it “the Hershey squirts.” It’s funnier.
It is just astonishing that anybody with a pair of eyes, let alone a pair of eyes far greater than Stevie Wonder’s will ever be, still insists that the Cavaliers have been anything more than the strict by-product of LeBron James’ exponential improvement from a good teenage player to a great player who’s nothing less than a man. His stinkfest restaurant tipping practices notwithstanding. Other than that, the only realistic difference between his rookie season and now is the increased bloated payroll and Gilbert’s correspondingly increased bloated ticket prices.
Can’t wait to see those latest jacked-up increases for 2008-2009 while Windhorst is forced by Gilbert to watch the games while hanging from a bungee jumping rope from the arena rooftop instead of sitting his keister in the media seats Gilbert tore out to bring in an additional $1.5 million a year. Gilbert. Whatta guy. And yet you need to read independent alternative local papers in order to read anything negative concerning his business practices. Gosh, I wonder why that is.
June 1st, 2008 at 3:37 pm
You’re right Alan, you win. Silas and Paxson were great, Danny Ferry might as well hang himself and Gilbert should be shot right in the middle of downtown for all to see. LeBron should leave, if for no other reason than to appease a bunch of ticked off waitresses, the Cavs franchise should be disbanded followed by a public apology from the front office for ever having been a part of the NBA, and Windhorst should get a new job at the Winking Lizard serving lousy beer and getting stiffed by a bunch of LeBron look-alikes.
In fact, screw it, let’s abolish all professional sports in Cleveland, and campaign like hell to make sure that other cities follow suit. And when we’re done, let’s work as hard as we can to keep village idiot/mayor Frank Jackson in office. NO, better yet, let’s find someone even dumber and less qualified to run this city into the ground. Our goal should be to turn the great city of Cleveland into a giant wasteland, somewhere between a landfill and downtown Bagdad.
Why do all of that? Because Alan Tucker hates Cleveland, Cleveland fans, and everyone in Northeast Ohio deserves to be miserable and hate their lives as much as he hates his.
Seriously Alan, if you could be any more of a bitter, miserable old man, I’d love to see you try. You really, truly suck at life. Quit wasting all of our time and just go root for Boston or Detroit.
June 1st, 2008 at 4:44 pm
Which, of course, Josh, has absolutely nothing to do with what I just wrote in any way, shape or form. Not one single word. Although, that Winking Lizard thing really provoked some very disturbing images. I only went there once, with my late father about 15 years ago, maybe more, if memory serves, it was a prefab dive somewhere near Solon. I can’t recall, the Winking Lizard servers aren’t required to wear revealing tops and bottoms, are they?
June 2nd, 2008 at 1:35 pm
This is a basketball blog, and your posts rarely, if ever, have anything to do with basketball. What’s your point?
June 2nd, 2008 at 3:02 pm
The Cavs need major moves as well as cavs fans know.Here is one to pond