Snap trade analysis
Posted February 21st, 2008 by bwindhorst
The deal is done. The details are here. Basically, Cavs get Ben Wallace, Joe Smith, Wally Szczerbiak, Delonte West and a second-round draft pick for Larry Hughes, Drew Gooden, Ira Newble, Donyell Marshall, Shannon Brown, and Cedric Simmons. Pretty crazy. And, I think, qualifies as the blockbuster. In full disclosure, the deal I was talking about last night was Hughes for Wallace and then the Cavs would be able to move Gooden for a shooting guard. It obviously got a lot more complex today.
Here is the instant reaction, one of the things being talked about within the Cavs front office over the last few days was the need to get someone in here to deal with potential matchups with the Celtics in the playoffs. Wallace could be that guy. He also gives them an edge in dealing with the Pistons as well. Szczerbiak is guy who is the type of player that works well with LeBron, he’s a shooter, although he’s had injury problems. Cavs are taking on some huge salary here, but they are not really extending their commitments. Wallace is signed for two more years (like Hughes) and Smith and Szczerbiak will have expiring contracts next season. West will be a restricted free agent.
To me the key here is just what Wallace brings. He’s not the player he was in Detroit, I think most people agree with that. But can he be a major defensive presence, especially come the playoffs. To me that will define this deal. Maybe he will, maybe he won’t. Lots of people are down on him and he’s not having a good year. He is the key in my mind.
Still much, much more to come down the line. Cavs have a press conference at 5:30.
February 21st, 2008 at 3:53 pm
szerbiak is a low risk, his contract comes off the books next season and at the worst becomes a trade asset next season. wallace toughens us up and im glad for delonte west, i like him over chris duhon.
February 21st, 2008 at 3:53 pm
Yes!!
February 21st, 2008 at 3:54 pm
I like both moves. I’m actually really surprised Ferry was able to get these done.
February 21st, 2008 at 3:55 pm
they are taking on hughe contracts, but only for two years, just like drew and larry, it works out well awesome trade, just hope wally can stay healthy check this out, west, lebron, wally, ben, and z, now that is a nice line up, off the bench smith, sasha, andy, gibson, comon can any one say east conf finals. ican, good trade, larry has been playing good lately but i love the trade.
February 21st, 2008 at 4:00 pm
[...] bwindhorst wrote a fantastic post today on “Blockbuster arrives”Here’s ONLY a quick extractThe second complimentary trade is apparently with the Seattle SuperSonics. The Cavs likely going to get Wally Szczerbiak to be their new shooting guard in addition to Delonte West, a point guard they have wanted for quite some time. … [...]
February 21st, 2008 at 4:02 pm
Ric Bucher was reporting was reporting on ESPN that this trade was the Cavs fall back trade and they had another deal they preferred that included Hughes. Any idea what that deal was?
February 21st, 2008 at 4:03 pm
I think this is a great trade. I hate to lose Gooden, but I love the defense that Big Ben will bring. Also, Delonte is a good defender at the point with his size. Wally can shoot, and those two will do more than Donyell, Shannon, Ira combined. I’m not sure how Joe Smith will fit in, but he’ll be fine.
February 21st, 2008 at 4:07 pm
BW — nice work! With your clues yesterday, I guessed Duhon and Wallace and thought we would get an outside shooter, but not Wally — Smith is a huge throw-in — great trade and great work by you!
February 21st, 2008 at 4:07 pm
Bogart smells bad.
February 21st, 2008 at 4:07 pm
and I was one of Hughes’ biggest supporters — great trade
February 21st, 2008 at 4:08 pm
and I was one of Hughes’ biggest supporters — great trade!
February 21st, 2008 at 4:08 pm
Thank the lord, CAVS fans rejoice!
February 21st, 2008 at 4:10 pm
smith is actually much more productive this season than i thought. over 11 a night, 5 boards, shoots 80+% from the line. a clear upgrade over marshall in the post, IMO
February 21st, 2008 at 4:15 pm
I can’t believe I’m saying this but I really kind of like this trade. I can’t believe Ben Wallace is a Cav and I’m not jumping off a bridge. I need some time to digest this but we didn’t really kill any cap flexibility, we got a brand new backcourt, and I never have to look at the terrible guys we traded ever again.
I can’t believe this. I like it.
February 21st, 2008 at 4:15 pm
Great trade. I can’t believe these morons who are posting negative stuff about it after carping that Ferry couldn’t/wouldn’t upgrade the lineup.
February 21st, 2008 at 4:16 pm
yo I gotta change my name.
That’s a lotta money but I like it. Bring it on Delonte, you are now following a long line of amazing Cleveland PG’s. Too bad we could’t throw Jones or Snow in… I liked Gooden and Hughes but it was time for a change for all. I’m pretty happy though and now we will see what’s up!
February 21st, 2008 at 4:17 pm
I like it. The Sonics give us a new starting backcourt, the Bulls give us size and depth defensively.
Delonte, Wally, Lebron, Wallace and Z start.
Andy and Boobie continue to get big minutes.
DJ, Sasha, Devin Brown, and Joe Smith fight for the scraps.
February 21st, 2008 at 4:18 pm
FINALLY!!!!! Ferry pulls the trigger and shakes things up. Hopefully, Wallace will have new life and Wally will be healthy.
February 21st, 2008 at 4:20 pm
Great call on this… tell all the haters on you throughout the day to apoligize. Great work!
February 21st, 2008 at 4:34 pm
we get a shooter in wally, a defender in big ben, a quality young pg in delonte west, and someone just as good as gooden in joe smith. ok, maybe not just as good, but solid and not an idiot. we also still have expiring contracts next year in eric snow and damon jones that equal about 10 mil combined, so they can still make a deal next year for more pieces. and then the next year, wally and big ben will be the biggest expiring contracts out there so we can make yet another move if we want in lebrons contact year. or we can wait and sign free agents. this is a move that works for the present and the future. also, the first round pick we get could be a top 10 pick. in one of the best drafts in recent memory. o yes. o yessss
February 21st, 2008 at 4:35 pm
check that, might not be a first, but still
February 21st, 2008 at 4:39 pm
I am not getting it… Wallace is not the defensive player he was two years ago, and that’s not adding in the fact that he was never even an average offensive player. Joe Smith is okay as a backup… not losing much since Donyell Marshall was rarely effective. Getting rid of Larry Hughes is fantastic, but for Wally? Man is he overrated. Delonte West has been awful this year and is not the solution to our point guard problem. LeBron needed a Pau Gasol type of guy to have a shot at the championship… Wally/Wallace/West and the rest are not going to cut it.
February 21st, 2008 at 4:40 pm
Not bad, not bad at all. I echo the positive impressions of many of you, but am worried about Wally’s defense. I live in Seattle and do catch the occasional Sonics game and Wally is an atrocious defender. Absolute statue on the perimeter.
February 21st, 2008 at 4:41 pm
who the hell is gonna score? will lebron end up taking 40 shots per night? does delonte west remember when lebron posterized him? what about wally’s back? does anyone know what is on delonte west’s lip? how will this affect anderson varejao wig night?
February 21st, 2008 at 4:43 pm
not too big on this trade , it’s a wait and see approach for me . in wally , you’re getting another often injured player who can’t play a lick of D and has the speed of a crippled snail , and this is your 2 guard ? on a positive , he can knock down the open jumper and he has a short contract which could be an asset next season . where do i get started on ben wallace ? horrible contract , is on a rapid decline , no offense from more than 1 foot away from basket , and he’s chris dudley and shaq rolled into one at the free throw line . bottom line , don’t expect much offense out of him and maybe just a couple of rebounds more than drew .delonte west is clearly the most intruiging player for me in this deal , is he the point guard that the cavs and their fans been clamoring for for years ?this is his 3rd team in less than 2 years and he’s a young guy , does he have what it takes to be a starter in the nba ? in his defense , this is the 1st team he’s playing on that is playoff bound , and he’s playing with one of the best players in the nba now . we will see if he’s nothing more than a career back-up or is he a servicable point guard who can knock down some open shots and facilitate the offense and play some good D .
February 21st, 2008 at 4:44 pm
joe smith is the dark horse in this trade, he can score off the bench better off the bench then anyone we had at pf or sf, this is an awesome trade cannot wait to hear what ALAN TUCKER HAS TO SAY.
February 21st, 2008 at 4:49 pm
I like this trade for a lot of reasons, Joe Smith being one of them. I thought he was over the hill going into this year, but he’s played well enough that Tyrus Thomas and Joakim Noah couldn’t take that many minutes from him. He’ll be a good low-post scorer for the second team.
Look what this trade does for our bench. We could have a second unit of Gibson, Pavlovic, Smith, Varejao and Devin Brown, with Damon Jones still in reserve. Great depth.
February 21st, 2008 at 4:52 pm
Adios, Osama bin Gooden!
February 21st, 2008 at 4:54 pm
This is a good thing for the Cavs because it gets rid of Hughes! He didn’t fit well here.. that in itself is addition by subtraction.
As for the actual players.. Wallace isnt going to hurt us and can really only help. If he can bring a defensive toughness downlow who can play great help defense and block shots then that is what we need. We basically just swapped contracts but i think Wallace has the potential to help the team a lot more than Hughes was.
If Wally can stay healthy he’s a very good player who can shoot.. cant argue with that.
And all ive been hearing is that West is a good little player so i like that.
Plus we got Chicago’s best player in Joe Smith lol. I think all of these are upgrades from what we had.
February 21st, 2008 at 5:04 pm
[...] Blockbuster arrives [...]
February 21st, 2008 at 5:05 pm
How long until we hear the complaint that “Boatshoes” Ferry sits on his hands and never does anything?
Perhaps a change of scenery will do well for Wallace, ala Randy Moss. Regardless, this is a move for the better, how much is yet to be scene.
February 21st, 2008 at 5:08 pm
Thanks for the scoop, Brian. I like the trade.
February 21st, 2008 at 5:14 pm
I am standing by to see how much Alan Tucker hates this trade. He cannot stand Ferry and will never give him credit for pulling this off.
Standing by…
February 21st, 2008 at 5:15 pm
I like the trade. Cavs receive 4 veterans by moving 6 expendable players. I agree that ownership takes on salary, but isn’t extended too far out. The 2nd round pick means the team will have 2 picks in the top 40 of this years draft. Plus, they can still sign a Maurice Baker, Dahntay Jones, Nick Fazekas or 1-2 other waived young players and see if one of them turns into the next Kelenna Azuibuike. Nice job Danny! Now start preparing for the NBA draft.
February 21st, 2008 at 5:38 pm
Wally gets hurt more than Hughes. Not crazy about this deal. Ben Wallets is overrated.
February 21st, 2008 at 5:53 pm
Wow!
Better fitting pieces around Lebron.
Starters: West, Sasha, Lebron, Wallace, Z
2nd Team: Boobie, Wally, Brown, Smith, Varejao
(Heck, some NBA teams would like to have that unit as starters)
Nice job by Ferry to complete these trades.
With the thought of expiring contracts worth $20M for next year at this time! Again, WOW!!!
February 21st, 2008 at 5:57 pm
Check out the poll, just went up! Weigh in on the trade.
http://cleveland3up3down.blogspot.com/
February 21st, 2008 at 6:27 pm
until alan t. chimes in, this is not a done deal.
alan, drop some knowledge on us!!! your fans demand it!!!
February 21st, 2008 at 6:29 pm
Its not Artest but maybe better. Wallace is the enforcer
I have been crying for. And a real point guard in Delonte
West! Congratulations to boat shoes. This works it seems.
Is Wally hurt? Alan Tucker your thoughts please.
February 21st, 2008 at 6:30 pm
This just in. As part of the trade, Austin Carr, Campy Russel, and Joe Tate have agreed to suit up and play limited minutes off the bench.
February 21st, 2008 at 6:32 pm
Brian - Can we expect the new guys to play on Friday against Washington?
February 21st, 2008 at 6:36 pm
I’m happily eating crow because I never thought Ferry could get rid of Hughes. He, Marshall and Gooden were maddening to watch.
It’s quite a makeover for this time of year. I’d like to see Szczerbiak come off the bench and a quick backcourt with Gibson and West, if he can handle starting.
If Ferry can unload Pavlovic this summer, there won’t be too many flakes left.
February 21st, 2008 at 6:45 pm
I’m in. I like it. I’m going to swing by Target on the way home to see if I can buy a pair of boatshoes on sale.
On another note, I just watched five talking heads on ESPN say Lebron is running third in the MVP race. Just unbelievable. Apparently Chris Paul is the clear cut leader with Kobe lurking and Lebron an afterthought.
Look at the depth on the front line: Varejao, Wallace, Smith, and Z. Plenty of shooters to surround the best player in the world. We even have a pure PG now……. Let’s go win a title!
February 21st, 2008 at 6:49 pm
I am not completely sold yet. I think we are somewhat improved defensively down low, but that wasn’t a weak spot. Big Ben will however be a huge asset against Garnet, Rasheed, or Howard. He will also add some serious “bad-assness” that this team surely needs. We are now much weaker on D at the perimeter, which will be a problem against Detroit and the west. Say what you want about Larry, he was a great perimeter defender, and Newble was descent and versatile. I just don’t know enough about D. West to say if he helps us or not on defense. Can he guard Ray Allen, Rip, Billups (let alone Kobe, Paul, D. Williams or Parker)? We would now have to be the best rebounding team in the East, maybe even the entire NBA w/ James, Z, Varajao, Smith, and Wallace.
I think the offense has taken a hit w/ the departure of Gooden and Hughes. An offense that was mediocre to begin with. Wallace doesn’t replace any of that loss. This trade could be huge though if Sasha can get back and really contribute on O, that’s a big if or course. LJ may have to start thinking about taking a lot more shots.
I think this group should gel really quickly, as Wallace, Smith and Wally are all vets.
But if what BW reports is true, and the Cavs were looking to match the Celts, Pistons and Orlando, maybe the trade makes good sense. I see this new group struggling a lot on offense, unless Szczerbiak can really open things up, which I am simply not sold on.
Should be interesting.
February 21st, 2008 at 6:54 pm
At least this trade gives us a legit shot in the playoffs, if healthy. I just didn’t see us making the Finals again by standing pat. Gutsy trade! Go for it!
February 21st, 2008 at 7:10 pm
one more side note , the cavs got older with the addition of wallace , joe smith , and wally. this can’t be a long term solution
February 21st, 2008 at 7:14 pm
DO LEBRON LIKE THE TRADE, THAT IS WHAT MATTERS RIGHT NOW, ALTHOUGH THEY COULD STILL DO OTHER THINGS NEXT YEAR, DO THIS TRADE PUT THEM AT THE TOP OF THE EAST AS FAR AS LEBRON IS CONCERN.. I THINK HE SHOULD LOVE THIS TRADE, WE WILL BE AVG. DOUBLE DIGITS IN ASSIST EVERY GAME WITH THE SHOOTERS HE JUST AQUIRED.
February 21st, 2008 at 7:25 pm
charley rosen’s thoughts on the trade (i agree with him)
http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/7825038/For-Cavaliers,-changes-may-not-be-for-the-better
February 21st, 2008 at 7:27 pm
My thoughts on the deal:
It figures we deal Hughes when he’s finally on a roll. Whne he he hit the big shot at the end of the game last night. There were hugs and smiles all around. All I could think is that he must be gone! This is certainly the moment in his Cavs career when he has the most value, so it makes sense that you deal him when you can. He asked to be traded earlier in the season, and now he got his wish. I’m not sure how he fits with the Bulls, other than salary-wise.
Szczerbiak should be a very good fit at shooting guard. He has the same injury concerns as Hughes. Looking at his numbers this year, it’s obvious he still shoots at a high level, and higher than the Cavs have ever started with Lebron. If he stays healthy, he may hit a lot of shots. He also comes with some playoff experience.
Ben Wallace is an interesting move. It seems like everyone on the Bulls this year has been down. If he produces even at last year’s level, I think the Cavs are satisfied. He gives the Mike Brown great offense/defense options with true centers that he’s never had before. His contract isn’t so much worse than Hughes that I think it really matters. He also comes with a ring and loads of playoff experience.
Delonte West was okay as a young starting point guard for a couple bad Celtics teams. He is a decent shooter, with range (.370 career 3pt%). Last year as a starter, his numbers are about the same as Hughes, but with a higher fg% and apg. He plays solid defense. Throwing out the last half dozen games from Hughes’ Cavs career, and this is an upgrade on it’s own.
If Joe Smith had been the 10th pick in the draft instead of first overall, people would talk about what a nice career he’s had instead of being a disappoinment. He isn’t the rebounder that Gooden is, but he’s not bad, and is an equal scorer. He’s not a three point threat, but he is a huge upgrade over Donyell Marshall.
I’ll miss Gooden’s beard, and his quirky personality. I won’t miss his hands of stone - how many times did I see some phenominal pass from Lebron skip off his hands? He really is a very good rebounder at both ends, and a good post scorer with a decent spot up jump shot. At the same time, he has a tendency to disappear at time, especially on defense. I never got the feeling that Brown or Lebron were ever completely comfortable with him, and he was on the bench at the end of most games.
Newble and Marhsall were the only other players the Cavs gave up that were part of the rotation, but neither were important outside of a team chemistry standpoint.
From a talent standpoint, I think it’s easy to see this trade as a big upgrade.
February 21st, 2008 at 7:54 pm
you doom sayers are crazy, this is a good trade.
February 21st, 2008 at 8:03 pm
As a Bulls season ticket holder and long long time Bulls fan, you will be very happy with Joe Smith. His 15-18 foot jump shot has been on all year. His rebounding has been great,
he is juts a great 15-20 minute guy for a team.
Wallace is terrible and you will see why he was traded.
February 21st, 2008 at 8:06 pm
Where is Alan T? Is he out celebrating this trade, or did he collapse after reading about it?
February 21st, 2008 at 8:10 pm
From Chris Broussard (ESPN):
It’s no secret that I’m a Cavaliers fan. So how do I like today’s blockbuster trade?
Well, I’m not dancing in the streets, but I do like it. I think it betters their chances of winning the East, though they’re still not the conference favorite.
Here’s my breakdown of the 11-player trade for each of the three teams involved:
Cleveland: While Ben Wallace is the biggest name in the deal, he may not make the biggest impact for the Cavs. The acquisition of Wally Szczerbiak could be huge. With a player like LeBron, outside shooters are critical, and in Wally, the Cavs just added one of the league’s best.
In limited duty for the Sonics this season, Szczerbiak’s still averaging 13 points while nailing 42 percent of his treys. Now Daniel Gibson, who is out with sprained left ankle, is not the only consistent 3-point threat in Cleveland. Damon Jones is still there too, but I think Wally’s more consistent and reliable.
I also like getting Joe Smith. Smith is quietly having a very productive year. He’s averaging 11 points and 5 boards, but in seven starts this month, he’s posted 18 points and 7 rebounds a game. Smith is a smart, skilled player who’ll play well off LeBron James, and those famous brain cramps Drew Gooden was known for will be no more.
Don’t get me wrong. I think Big Ben will be a factor. First, going to a legit EC contender will rejuvenate him. I also think his presence will give the Cavs even more of an edge over Detroit than they already enjoyed, having handled the Pistons in the Eastern Conference finals last year and almost pulling off the upset in 2006.
Despite their problems with Cleveland the past two years, the Pistons have always thought the Cavs were soft. Obviously, that has changed, and I actually think Ben will have a little mojo over his former club. Seeing him in a Cavs uni next to LeBron won’t be a good feeling for the Pistons. (The Cavs and Pistons meet three more times this season.)
Now, Cleveland has a very tough four-man rotation at the 4 and 5 spots with Ben, Smith, Zydrunas Ilgauskas and Anderson Varejao.
And I can’t forget about Delonte West, one of those guys who’s just a good basketball player. He’s tough and smart — not a true point guard, but I don’t think you necessarily need one with LeBron.
A big key in this deal is that Cleveland didn’t lose much. All they really lost was Gooden, but Varejao’s emergence this season made Gooden expendable. Varejao was outplaying him, and now they’ve replaced Gooden with a tougher guy (Ben) and a smarter, more skilled guy (Smith). Two for one.
Hughes was no loss whatsoever. He had no bearing on whether the Cavs won or lost (see the 2006 conference finals vs. Detroit for evidence). And financially, the Cavs got rid of his bad contract without taking on longer contracts.
I thought Cleveland had a shot at winning the East before the deal. Now, I think they’ve got a much better shot. But getting through Detroit and Boston is still going to be tough.
One of the biggest benefits of this deal is that LeBron, I’m told, likes it.
February 21st, 2008 at 8:13 pm
Big Fan-
Thank you for the insight on Smith and Wallace. Sadly though, I feel for you the 1st time gooden goes for 1 point and 2 rebounds in 31 minutes and Hughes goes 3-19 from the floor in a 4 point loss. It is interesting that both teams are shedding the anchors that have been hanging around their collective necks. Hopefully, it works out for everyone.
February 21st, 2008 at 8:24 pm
If you just look at the players and seperate the 3 teams
in the transaction the Cavs Sonics portion of the deal is
the heist of the year. Wally and West for Bongyell and
Ira I cant play today Newble. Also our enforcer is here,
if Mcdyess even gets near LBJ or Wild Thing the Wild Man
from Borneo will bop his brains out. And Rasheed is going
to get his ass kicked. Garnett doesn’t stand a chance
against this front line. The more I think about it the better
it looks. Tucker can’t speak because Ferry made the right
move.
February 21st, 2008 at 9:19 pm
for all you clamoring to hear from the tuckster, i’m sorry to let you know, you won’t be hearing from him. his friend just went into a coma…
February 21st, 2008 at 10:46 pm
Thoughts on this deal:
1. There is only one reason that any Cleveland fan could be upset about this deal: It breaks up the only Cavs team ever to win the east. That being said, it wasn’t going to happen again. We weren’t going to get another first round bye (Washington) and we couldn’t count on getting through both detroit and boston. Beyond that, there is NO reason to be upset about this deal. Stop thinking for a minute about who we got back and think about who we gave up…A bunch of guys who shouldn’t be in the league, an overpaid often injured guard who nobody seemed to like, and a guy whose stats will always made him look better than he really was. We didn’t give up a single guy that I will really miss. More importantly, we didn’t give up any cap flexibility. We will still have big expiring contracts next year and the year after. Wallace’s and Hughe’s contract are basically a wash. I’m not saying this is reason to love the deal, its just that the Cavs aren’t really risking anything here. There is not a single Cavs fan who should really be worried abou this trade.
2. In my amateur estimation, the Cavs can’t really lose in this deal but the extent that they win will depend on a few things:
a) Can Mike Brown come up with a rotation that works? As it is now, it isn’t really obvious as to who will get minutes and at what position. It’s going to take time to figure out which combinations give us the right balance of offense and defense.
b) Is Ben Wallace really that washed up or did he quit on a team and an organization that he hated? This is the biggy in terms of how much we’ve gained in this trade. If Wallace goes into the juvenation machine playing for a contender and next to Lebron, this could be great. We would have a legitmate enforcer and a guy to protect the rim against quicker penetrating guards. If he’s washed up, SO WHAT! That’s what I don’t understand listening to some of the fan reaction. If Wallace is overpaid and terrible, never lose sight of the fact that we got him by getting rid of a guy who was overpaid and terrible. The only difference is that unlike Hughes, Wallace won’t take 15 awful shots every night. At worst, you take Hughe’s shots and redistribute them among Lebron, Szczerbiak, West, Hughes, Z and Smith. I’m not really sure how this could be a bad thing. I know that we lose Hughe’s “scoring” (using the term loosely) but remember that those shots will now go to other people who presumably will make more than 1 out of every
c) Can Szczerbiak stay healthy?
d) Will the egos be managed? My gut says yes on this one. Wallace is coming from an absolutely awful situation in which he was clearly unhappy. I would imagine he is happy just to be out of there. Szczerbiak is a notorious egomaniac but he’s got to be happy to be leaving the NBA wasteland that Seattle has become.
3. I would’ve hated this trade if it didn’t include the Seattle component. With Seattle, I love it. We can now balance the scoring more evenly between the frontcourt and the backcourt. In addition, it will allow the Cavs to do a lot of different things. They can go big with Lebron at the 1 or they can spread the floor with Szczerbiak, Boobie, and Jones. There are a lot of possibilities (mainly because we just picked up two extra rotation players) and it will just be up to Mike Brown to figure out what works.
4. We just traded Gooden, Hughes, and a bunch of warm bodies for four legitimate NBA players. That, by itself, should help the team. A guy like West or Joe Smith might not put you over the top but good teams usually have more than just a couple rotation players, along with the stars, that actually belong on an NBA team. The Cavs look a lot more like a real live NBA roster now than they did before the trade because of the viable body count alone.
5. I really have no idea what Delonte West can do. His numbers this year stink but he’s still young and at points in his career, could really shoot the ball. The good thing is we traded him for two frozen turds so it’s hard to really be upset if he doesn’t work out and we don’t re-sign him.
6. I never have to see Hughes, Marshall, or Newble in a Cavs uniform ever again (barring an epic disaster down the road). That alone is enough to make my LOVE this trade. GO CAVS
February 21st, 2008 at 11:29 pm
Nice post Biff. Couldn’t have said it better myself.
February 21st, 2008 at 11:51 pm
as far as it goes, i think boobie and bron won the east
then every other player got swept in the finals
February 22nd, 2008 at 12:41 am
Good post Chuck.
This is a great move. To me the Cavs have a glaring weakness right now that San Antonio exploited beautifully in last year’s finals. They show on every pick and roll to keep speed point guards at bay. When Z shows on the pick and roll, he can never get back in time and Drew Gooden as much as I loved him as a person and a character, he was a terrible help-side defender. This is why Varajeo was always playing crunch time minutes. Ben Wallace does 1 thing well - he’s a great help defender. Ben Wallace playing the 4 is going to step in and swat any center that gets some feed after Z shows on a pick and doesn’t get back in time.
Wally is going to get a lot of open looks, so if he can get comfortable, he’s going to hit a lot of 3s. I’ve always liked Delonte West, and I don’t think he’s going to hurt us. Joe Smith has been Chicago’s best player this year and he’s been a pretty consistent scorer his whole career. I love this move because we didn’t have the assest to do ANYTHING and Ferry gets 4 guys that could all POTENTIALLY fill a role on this team. ANd if it doesn’t work out? Wally’s got a huge expiring contract next year, Wallace’s deal is just like Hughes, so we didn’t shoot ourselves in the foot. OH, we got a 2nd round pick, to boot!
Extremely shrewd moves by Ferry. I’m impressed.
February 22nd, 2008 at 1:51 am
Biff:
I think your post is right on, and you kinda stole my thunder. The 3 1/2 stiffs the Cavs gave up (C. Simmons might be decent in a few years) weren’t going to play at all in the playoffs or even be on our roster next year, so they don’t even have to be part of the discussion. That means Ferry basically dealt Hughes for Wally and Delonte West, and turned Gooden into Ben Wallace and Joe Smith. Wallace’s contract is downright offensive, but as you pointed out, Hughes’ is almost as bad. The difference is that Hughes wasn’t going to guard Garnett, Dwight Howard or Rasheed in the playoffs, whereas Ben Wallace could conceivably create headaches for all three of those monsters in a 7-game series; plus he’s a great compliment to Z, who is soft and doesn’t challenge enough shots. Wallace also replaces Gooden’s rebounding, while Joe Smith, as John Hollinger pointed out tonite, has proven to be a more efficient offensive player than Gooden–at least in ‘08. So you can’t argue the Gooden for Wallace and Smith end of the deal. And swapping Hughes for Wally and West is a no-brainer. They both are smart players whom LeBron will be able to trust. Wally is the kind of spot-up shooter LBJ loves, and West is the one player in the entire deal who has the most potential–plus he instantly becomes your starting PG. He’s not ideal, but I think of him as a young Eric Snow: hard-nosed and defensive-minded…only with 3-point range and a better offensive upside. I also think that West can push the ball vertically up the court much faster than Hughes or any of our other guards can. Let’s face it: The Cavs weren’t going to become San Antonio today. They are still a year away from contending, at least…but they got better today, and without sacrificing any financial flexibility. Way to go Ferry. I almost forgive you for signing Damon Jones.
February 22nd, 2008 at 2:14 am
biff, i want to publicly apologize for calling you a moron a few days ago. your post tonight analyzing his trade shows you to be actually quite astute. i’m sorry.
February 22nd, 2008 at 6:35 am
Here’s my trade analysis.
http://community.foxsports.com/blogs/Tsunami
February 22nd, 2008 at 7:20 am
I like this trade….. I believe the Cavs are in much better position now for a run through the playoffs than they were before the trade. I like the Wally part and I think it will give him good vibes to play in Ohio again where friends and family can come and make him comfortable. I like West as a Celtic and I think he can find his place in the NBA here with the Cavs.
I am really tired of the media and the various talking heads who constantly put down the Cavs and their team. We get so little respect from the officials and from the media and we have the very best basketball player pound for pound in the NBA. He works hard, plays hard, and shares what he has with those who he plays with. If you don’t want to play with him you are a fool and are lost in a sea of denial (good bye Larry H).
February 22nd, 2008 at 8:37 am
This trade gets better the more that I look at it:
Ben Wallace - he has really slipped this year but I think he will do great with Mike Brown on a defensive-oriented team like Detroit was. Remember that Gooden and to a lesser degree AV had trouble with defensive rotations - Big Ben will not. His contract is 3 years like Hughes and since it is bigger we have a bigger slot to fill when he leaves.
Joe Smith - another big to rotate with Z, Ben and AV Joe replaces much of Drew’s offense and is a heady veteran as well. Great team player
Wally World - slightly better than Donyell on offense and slightly worse on D. Wally should help spread the court with Gibson or Damon when Lebron drives to the hoop. His contract will be easy to trade next year at the deadline with Joe Smith, Damon, AV, Snow to get a real star next year in Feb.
Delonte West - at worst he will sit the bench like Shannon did, but I think he could be the spark we need at the point. He can shoot a little
Losing Gooden - there is a very good reason that he didn’t play at the end of close games. He really was viewed as a stop-gap replacement for Boozer and has been in every trade that we have proposed.
Losing Hughes - I would rather have a poor shooting athletic center (Wallace) for 3 years than a poor shooting athletic guard for 3 years. Their wasn’t anything that Hughes did that Devin Brown cannot do.
February 22nd, 2008 at 8:47 am
I keep hearing how much perimeter defense we lost and how many starters. It’s retarded. Last night Legler said Ira Newble was a starter!!!
No Tim, watch a Cavs game you idiot. It’s also the reason why LeBron won’t win the NBA when he is having the best season in the NBA and it isn’t that close. (Chris Paul is #2)
I love this deal, it makes us better now and in the future. The national media can stick it! The Cavs will be the Eastern Conference representative in the NBA Finals this year and they nee dto deal with it.
February 22nd, 2008 at 9:31 am
Yo Sean - Ira was in the starting lineup for the past month! Legler’s not the idiot … who is?
February 22nd, 2008 at 10:02 am
Dont forget that Wallace’s contract was very front loaded, meaning the Cavs are going to pay him less the next two years of his contract.
Also, Hughes had a lot of incentives, which made his contract more expensive. So we really got a good deal between the two.
Overall, I like the trade as stated before. However, I can just hear it now “Boatshoes finally did one move, but it took him too long to do it.”
February 22nd, 2008 at 10:05 am
Not to call guys out but a couple of you act like donyell brought something to the table. He brought nothing. He is fat, lazy, slow, and shooting less than 30% for the YEAR. He is the absolute epitome of terrible. I can’t even remember the last time that Marshall could actually show up on an NBA court and not embarrass himself, his team, and his team’s fans. I know Wally brings his own baggage but lets all thank the lord that Donyell is taking his Saturday morning at the YMCA grade game 3000 miles away.
February 22nd, 2008 at 11:47 am
c’mon harry! newble played because of injuries. otherwise was a high-priced cheerleader.
it’s obvious some of these media guys do not know the cavs. you would think after last years playoffs they would have some idea of the dynamics of the team. legler can have ira newble. and tony kornholer can have american idol. good trade. it still leaves roster flexibility in the future and the reconfigured team is worth a shot because the old version didn’t cut it.
February 22nd, 2008 at 12:13 pm
OK, some of the commenters above are starting to move me towards a net positive opinion on the trade. I hadn’t realized what a solid season Joe Smith was having, and his accurate mid-range jumper will be very helpful to the offensive efficiency. I think the trade will help us make a big move next year as well, that is very positive.
I still think our perimeter D is now much worse (and it was already suspect) and can easily be exploited by Billups and Rip among other quality guards. However, this new tougher squad seems well suited to take close games late into the 4th Q where we know Lebron is the best player in the NBA.
One question, are any of these new guys going to play tonight in Washington? Will we have enough players to field a team? We traded 6 guys and at least 3 are out w/ injuries. ESPN is reporting that Gibson is out 4-6 weeks, that’s a tough break.
February 22nd, 2008 at 1:13 pm
Nice blog Tom, I agree pretty much across the board. I have a hard time understanding how people that are paid to follow the NBA can be so clueless (Bucher, Charley Rosen) and lazy.
February 22nd, 2008 at 1:17 pm
WOW.
Add Chad Ford to that list for this gem:
And the team’s cap flexibility is now practically gone. It’s doubtful Danny Ferry can make another big move before LeBron hits free agency in 2010.
HMMMM 30 million next year seems like it equals flexibility to me, and the BW contract comes off the books at the end of ‘09.
February 22nd, 2008 at 1:57 pm
it would be really great if we scored BRENT BARRY too!… he was cut by the sonics
February 22nd, 2008 at 2:40 pm
Regarding the trade, it seems like there are a lot of doubters outside of Cleveland. Don’t know why. Danny Ferry and the Cavs followed all the rules when making a trade:
1. Upgrade your team. Done. Wallace can’t score, but he gives the Cavs tough defense and rebounding and his numbers will go up playing for a contender. Joe Smith can replace Gooden for the next year or two, and we weren’t going to have Drew any longer than that anyway. Wally can help the Cavs spread the floor which is what they’ve needed to do for three years now. He’s also big and can create his own shot. West is a decent point guard who plays good defense, and he’s still young and may improve/
2. Don’t give up any core guys. Done. Gooden is an above average player but constantly misses defensive assignments. He has one good game and then one bad, and often disappears for long stretches of time. Hughes has always been a disappointment, can’t stay healthy and was so banged up by the end of last year that he was useless in the finals. Shannon Brown was never going to see the light of day here. Newble and Marshall were bad contracts that provided little to nothing–they had to go. Cedric Simmons…see Shannon Brown.
3. Don’t dig a financial hole for your team. Avoided. Wallace is a bad contract, but so was Hughes. We’re not on the hook for a long time with any of these guys and will still be able to look into free agency for 2008 and especially 2009.
I just don’t see how anyone can say the Cavs did poorly with this deal. I see this is as a slight to moderate upgrade of their current roster, which with Lebron, just might be enough.
February 22nd, 2008 at 3:01 pm
Alan asked me to pass this message on since he’s too embarrassed to speak today:
“The trade sucks, Danny Ferry sucks, Mike Brown sucks, Dan Gilbert sucks. Just when Larry Hughes begins to show why the CAVS brought him in we ship him out. People, where do I begin?”
February 22nd, 2008 at 3:37 pm
Thoughts on the trade:
- I am excited about the trade. I like it. Patrick McManamon likened it to shuffling chairs. I’m not sure what that means, but I’ll assume he was sleepy at the time. I think this trade is like playing 5-card draw. Ferry saw Hughes and Gooden as a pair of 6’s with his Ace kicker in LeBron. They were good enough to win a few hands, but not likely to bring home the big pot. So he threw them in and picked up some unknowns, hoping that things work out.
- When it comes to bigs, the Cavs traded one-for-two. That’s the way it has to be if you want to have success in this league.
- It’s funny how the talents of incoming players get inflated. Delonte West has spurts where he looks like a good player, but those were so rare that he found himself as the third-string point guard on a team that is 25 games under .500. He has size, but does not have the speed to push the ball, or to stay in front of opposing guards defensively. He wasn’t Andre Miller before the Cavs acquired him, and he’s not going to be Andre Miller now. Adding West merely gives the Cavs a chance to compare him to Boobie Gibson, as both will become restricted free agents after the season.
- All of the players the Cavs added are slow. Wallace and Smith are old guys with a lot of miles on their legs, while Szerbiack makes Z look fleet of foot. At least we know Ferry wasn’t bowing to pressure from the media to turn the Cavs into a running team.
- Ben Wallace’s attitude will be a huge factor in the success of this trade. If he is willing to accept his role as defender and rebounder, then things should be fine. If he thinks he should be treated like a top-20 player, then he’s going to be a distraction. I’m also worried that when Wallace is on the floor, opposing teams will constantly double-team LeBron like they used to when Eric Snow was getting minutes.
- Normally, I would expect veteran players to chafe at Mike Brown’s “offense.” Guys that have been around the NBA know a bad offensive gameplan when they see it. But all of these players are coming from teams that had terrible offenses as well. Szerbiack and West were playing in Seattle, where the coaching staff decided to spend the entire season watching Kevin Durant shoot them to another top-3 lottery spot. Wallace and Smith were playing in Scott Skiles’ offense, which became Jim Boylan’s offense, but never stopped sucking. As a result, the new guys might be less inclined to constantly complain about their offensive role, as Larry Hughes was wont to do.
- At the end of they day, I think Szerbiack will be the player that has the most impact on the Cavaliers. If he can be a more efficient version of Hughes on the offensive end, that will be an upgrade. And there’s a chance that his huge expiring contract could be the linchpin in a big deal next year. And I expect to see a lot of Wally jerseys sold between now and the playoffs.
- I like Joe Smith, and thought he would be a nice addition a while ago. But I didn’t think the Bulls would move one of their few productive players to another team in the division.
- At the end of the day though, I like this trade because it should renew the enthusiasm about the team. All the talk about the need for a trade was more psychological than anything else. The Cavs and their fans had gotten a little complacent, a little bored, and this big shake up could pay big dividends in the short term. As of Sunday, the possibilities for the season are endless yet again.
Go Cavs.
Mike C.
February 22nd, 2008 at 3:44 pm
Hoops, why even say that? Why give him any importance? You’re just as bad with that crap. The blog has been great the last few days even with the folks who disagree with the trade and Ferry in general. Their is no outright hostility and rudeness that this person constantly brings to the blog. As long as he is away, let’s leave it at that. You bringing unnecessary attention to him is just stupid as he’ll be the jackass he always is when he posts something next. Leave well enough alone and try to ignore it when the current coma crisis is over.
February 22nd, 2008 at 4:46 pm
FWIW, the BEST analysis of this trade comes from, somewhat remarkably, simmons over at ESPN.com:
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/080223
marvel at how he actually writes like he’s see n the cavs play this year!
gasp as he mentions that an LBJ-led team needs consistently from it’s parts!
thrill as he now thinks the cavs are the eastern favs this year over his beloved celtics and actually backs it up with a cogent argument!
again, best analysis yet…
February 22nd, 2008 at 4:49 pm
I laugh whenever I see Charley Rosen’s name. He also predicted LeBron would be one of the biggest busts to ever hit the NBA.
February 22nd, 2008 at 5:09 pm
Simmons has been pimpin LBJ and the Cavs this year pretty hard.
He’s quoted as having a Cavs vs. Jazz Finals.
I truly feel like he watches games why many of the blowhards just catch glimpses. He loves the NBA and I find myself agreeing with him maybe more than anyone that follows the NBA affliated with ESPN, TNT or what have you.
His adoration for LBJ this year has been borderline stalking…and he’s right as all of us Cavs fans know.
February 22nd, 2008 at 5:15 pm
By the way Harry, Ira isn’t a starter.
Dude wasn’t even playing the first 25+ games. “Starters” don’t average 18 minutes a game. You can’t be serious giving me the “he’s on the floor to start the game stuff”…Boobie hurt, Sasha hurt, Brown liking D. Brown off the bench, D. Jones gets more minutes…You can’t call Newble a real starter, maybe a default one.
February 22nd, 2008 at 5:15 pm
Not that we needed any validation but kj I agree. For as much as Simmons has lost credibility with his incessant Boston blowing, the guy understands the NBA. It took him a couple of paragraphs to make the few obvious but important points about this trade that seem to be lost on most of the other “experts.” I like it that guys like Simmons and Hollinger like the trade while a bunch of the tv sock puppets and cavs haters like Rosen just spout a bunch of ridiculous nonsense that proves that they’ve only seen a handful of Cavs games all year (and didn’t even bother to look at the Cavs cap situation after this deal). Once again, I will say it now and even if it doesn’t work out, I will stick with it: Well done Danny Ferry. You put together a move that most of us would have never even thought about (and rightfully so with Wallace’s contract) that makes us a much better team now and doesn’t do damage going forward. Well done. You have just proven your worth to this fan.