The deal is done. The details are here. Basically, Cavs get Ben Wallace, Joe Smith, Wally Szczerbiak, Delonte West and a second-round draft pick for Larry Hughes, Drew Gooden, Ira Newble, Donyell Marshall, Shannon Brown, and Cedric Simmons. Pretty crazy. And, I think, qualifies as the blockbuster. In full disclosure, the deal I was talking about last night was Hughes for Wallace and then the Cavs would be able to move Gooden for a shooting guard. It obviously got a lot more complex today.
Here is the instant reaction, one of the things being talked about within the Cavs front office over the last few days was the need to get someone in here to deal with potential matchups with the Celtics in the playoffs. Wallace could be that guy. He also gives them an edge in dealing with the Pistons as well. Szczerbiak is guy who is the type of player that works well with LeBron, he’s a shooter, although he’s had injury problems. Cavs are taking on some huge salary here, but they are not really extending their commitments. Wallace is signed for two more years (like Hughes) and Smith and Szczerbiak will have expiring contracts next season. West will be a restricted free agent.
To me the key here is just what Wallace brings. He’s not the player he was in Detroit, I think most people agree with that. But can he be a major defensive presence, especially come the playoffs. To me that will define this deal. Maybe he will, maybe he won’t. Lots of people are down on him and he’s not having a good year. He is the key in my mind.
Still much, much more to come down the line. Cavs have a press conference at 5:30.
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From Chris Broussard (ESPN):
It’s no secret that I’m a Cavaliers fan. So how do I like today’s blockbuster trade?
Well, I’m not dancing in the streets, but I do like it. I think it betters their chances of winning the East, though they’re still not the conference favorite.
Here’s my breakdown of the 11-player trade for each of the three teams involved:
Cleveland: While Ben Wallace is the biggest name in the deal, he may not make the biggest impact for the Cavs. The acquisition of Wally Szczerbiak could be huge. With a player like LeBron, outside shooters are critical, and in Wally, the Cavs just added one of the league’s best.
In limited duty for the Sonics this season, Szczerbiak’s still averaging 13 points while nailing 42 percent of his treys. Now Daniel Gibson, who is out with sprained left ankle, is not the only consistent 3-point threat in Cleveland. Damon Jones is still there too, but I think Wally’s more consistent and reliable.
I also like getting Joe Smith. Smith is quietly having a very productive year. He’s averaging 11 points and 5 boards, but in seven starts this month, he’s posted 18 points and 7 rebounds a game. Smith is a smart, skilled player who’ll play well off LeBron James, and those famous brain cramps Drew Gooden was known for will be no more.
Don’t get me wrong. I think Big Ben will be a factor. First, going to a legit EC contender will rejuvenate him. I also think his presence will give the Cavs even more of an edge over Detroit than they already enjoyed, having handled the Pistons in the Eastern Conference finals last year and almost pulling off the upset in 2006.
Despite their problems with Cleveland the past two years, the Pistons have always thought the Cavs were soft. Obviously, that has changed, and I actually think Ben will have a little mojo over his former club. Seeing him in a Cavs uni next to LeBron won’t be a good feeling for the Pistons. (The Cavs and Pistons meet three more times this season.)
Now, Cleveland has a very tough four-man rotation at the 4 and 5 spots with Ben, Smith, Zydrunas Ilgauskas and Anderson Varejao.
And I can’t forget about Delonte West, one of those guys who’s just a good basketball player. He’s tough and smart — not a true point guard, but I don’t think you necessarily need one with LeBron.
A big key in this deal is that Cleveland didn’t lose much. All they really lost was Gooden, but Varejao’s emergence this season made Gooden expendable. Varejao was outplaying him, and now they’ve replaced Gooden with a tougher guy (Ben) and a smarter, more skilled guy (Smith). Two for one.
Hughes was no loss whatsoever. He had no bearing on whether the Cavs won or lost (see the 2006 conference finals vs. Detroit for evidence). And financially, the Cavs got rid of his bad contract without taking on longer contracts.
I thought Cleveland had a shot at winning the East before the deal. Now, I think they’ve got a much better shot. But getting through Detroit and Boston is still going to be tough.
One of the biggest benefits of this deal is that LeBron, I’m told, likes it.
Big Fan-
Thank you for the insight on Smith and Wallace. Sadly though, I feel for you the 1st time gooden goes for 1 point and 2 rebounds in 31 minutes and Hughes goes 3-19 from the floor in a 4 point loss. It is interesting that both teams are shedding the anchors that have been hanging around their collective necks. Hopefully, it works out for everyone.
If you just look at the players and seperate the 3 teams
in the transaction the Cavs Sonics portion of the deal is
the heist of the year. Wally and West for Bongyell and
Ira I cant play today Newble. Also our enforcer is here,
if Mcdyess even gets near LBJ or Wild Thing the Wild Man
from Borneo will bop his brains out. And Rasheed is going
to get his ass kicked. Garnett doesn’t stand a chance
against this front line. The more I think about it the better
it looks. Tucker can’t speak because Ferry made the right
move.
for all you clamoring to hear from the tuckster, i’m sorry to let you know, you won’t be hearing from him. his friend just went into a coma…
Thoughts on this deal:
1. There is only one reason that any Cleveland fan could be upset about this deal: It breaks up the only Cavs team ever to win the east. That being said, it wasn’t going to happen again. We weren’t going to get another first round bye (Washington) and we couldn’t count on getting through both detroit and boston. Beyond that, there is NO reason to be upset about this deal. Stop thinking for a minute about who we got back and think about who we gave up…A bunch of guys who shouldn’t be in the league, an overpaid often injured guard who nobody seemed to like, and a guy whose stats will always made him look better than he really was. We didn’t give up a single guy that I will really miss. More importantly, we didn’t give up any cap flexibility. We will still have big expiring contracts next year and the year after. Wallace’s and Hughe’s contract are basically a wash. I’m not saying this is reason to love the deal, its just that the Cavs aren’t really risking anything here. There is not a single Cavs fan who should really be worried abou this trade.
2. In my amateur estimation, the Cavs can’t really lose in this deal but the extent that they win will depend on a few things:
a) Can Mike Brown come up with a rotation that works? As it is now, it isn’t really obvious as to who will get minutes and at what position. It’s going to take time to figure out which combinations give us the right balance of offense and defense.
b) Is Ben Wallace really that washed up or did he quit on a team and an organization that he hated? This is the biggy in terms of how much we’ve gained in this trade. If Wallace goes into the juvenation machine playing for a contender and next to Lebron, this could be great. We would have a legitmate enforcer and a guy to protect the rim against quicker penetrating guards. If he’s washed up, SO WHAT! That’s what I don’t understand listening to some of the fan reaction. If Wallace is overpaid and terrible, never lose sight of the fact that we got him by getting rid of a guy who was overpaid and terrible. The only difference is that unlike Hughes, Wallace won’t take 15 awful shots every night. At worst, you take Hughe’s shots and redistribute them among Lebron, Szczerbiak, West, Hughes, Z and Smith. I’m not really sure how this could be a bad thing. I know that we lose Hughe’s “scoring” (using the term loosely) but remember that those shots will now go to other people who presumably will make more than 1 out of every
c) Can Szczerbiak stay healthy?
d) Will the egos be managed? My gut says yes on this one. Wallace is coming from an absolutely awful situation in which he was clearly unhappy. I would imagine he is happy just to be out of there. Szczerbiak is a notorious egomaniac but he’s got to be happy to be leaving the NBA wasteland that Seattle has become.
3. I would’ve hated this trade if it didn’t include the Seattle component. With Seattle, I love it. We can now balance the scoring more evenly between the frontcourt and the backcourt. In addition, it will allow the Cavs to do a lot of different things. They can go big with Lebron at the 1 or they can spread the floor with Szczerbiak, Boobie, and Jones. There are a lot of possibilities (mainly because we just picked up two extra rotation players) and it will just be up to Mike Brown to figure out what works.
4. We just traded Gooden, Hughes, and a bunch of warm bodies for four legitimate NBA players. That, by itself, should help the team. A guy like West or Joe Smith might not put you over the top but good teams usually have more than just a couple rotation players, along with the stars, that actually belong on an NBA team. The Cavs look a lot more like a real live NBA roster now than they did before the trade because of the viable body count alone.
5. I really have no idea what Delonte West can do. His numbers this year stink but he’s still young and at points in his career, could really shoot the ball. The good thing is we traded him for two frozen turds so it’s hard to really be upset if he doesn’t work out and we don’t re-sign him.
6. I never have to see Hughes, Marshall, or Newble in a Cavs uniform ever again (barring an epic disaster down the road). That alone is enough to make my LOVE this trade. GO CAVS
Nice post Biff. Couldn’t have said it better myself.
as far as it goes, i think boobie and bron won the east
then every other player got swept in the finals
Good post Chuck.
This is a great move. To me the Cavs have a glaring weakness right now that San Antonio exploited beautifully in last year’s finals. They show on every pick and roll to keep speed point guards at bay. When Z shows on the pick and roll, he can never get back in time and Drew Gooden as much as I loved him as a person and a character, he was a terrible help-side defender. This is why Varajeo was always playing crunch time minutes. Ben Wallace does 1 thing well – he’s a great help defender. Ben Wallace playing the 4 is going to step in and swat any center that gets some feed after Z shows on a pick and doesn’t get back in time.
Wally is going to get a lot of open looks, so if he can get comfortable, he’s going to hit a lot of 3s. I’ve always liked Delonte West, and I don’t think he’s going to hurt us. Joe Smith has been Chicago’s best player this year and he’s been a pretty consistent scorer his whole career. I love this move because we didn’t have the assest to do ANYTHING and Ferry gets 4 guys that could all POTENTIALLY fill a role on this team. ANd if it doesn’t work out? Wally’s got a huge expiring contract next year, Wallace’s deal is just like Hughes, so we didn’t shoot ourselves in the foot. OH, we got a 2nd round pick, to boot!
Extremely shrewd moves by Ferry. I’m impressed.
Biff:
I think your post is right on, and you kinda stole my thunder. The 3 1/2 stiffs the Cavs gave up (C. Simmons might be decent in a few years) weren’t going to play at all in the playoffs or even be on our roster next year, so they don’t even have to be part of the discussion. That means Ferry basically dealt Hughes for Wally and Delonte West, and turned Gooden into Ben Wallace and Joe Smith. Wallace’s contract is downright offensive, but as you pointed out, Hughes’ is almost as bad. The difference is that Hughes wasn’t going to guard Garnett, Dwight Howard or Rasheed in the playoffs, whereas Ben Wallace could conceivably create headaches for all three of those monsters in a 7-game series; plus he’s a great compliment to Z, who is soft and doesn’t challenge enough shots. Wallace also replaces Gooden’s rebounding, while Joe Smith, as John Hollinger pointed out tonite, has proven to be a more efficient offensive player than Gooden–at least in ‘08. So you can’t argue the Gooden for Wallace and Smith end of the deal. And swapping Hughes for Wally and West is a no-brainer. They both are smart players whom LeBron will be able to trust. Wally is the kind of spot-up shooter LBJ loves, and West is the one player in the entire deal who has the most potential–plus he instantly becomes your starting PG. He’s not ideal, but I think of him as a young Eric Snow: hard-nosed and defensive-minded…only with 3-point range and a better offensive upside. I also think that West can push the ball vertically up the court much faster than Hughes or any of our other guards can. Let’s face it: The Cavs weren’t going to become San Antonio today. They are still a year away from contending, at least…but they got better today, and without sacrificing any financial flexibility. Way to go Ferry. I almost forgive you for signing Damon Jones.
biff, i want to publicly apologize for calling you a moron a few days ago. your post tonight analyzing his trade shows you to be actually quite astute. i’m sorry.
Here’s my trade analysis.
http://community.foxsports.com/blogs/Tsunami
I like this trade….. I believe the Cavs are in much better position now for a run through the playoffs than they were before the trade. I like the Wally part and I think it will give him good vibes to play in Ohio again where friends and family can come and make him comfortable. I like West as a Celtic and I think he can find his place in the NBA here with the Cavs.
I am really tired of the media and the various talking heads who constantly put down the Cavs and their team. We get so little respect from the officials and from the media and we have the very best basketball player pound for pound in the NBA. He works hard, plays hard, and shares what he has with those who he plays with. If you don’t want to play with him you are a fool and are lost in a sea of denial (good bye Larry H).
This trade gets better the more that I look at it:
Ben Wallace – he has really slipped this year but I think he will do great with Mike Brown on a defensive-oriented team like Detroit was. Remember that Gooden and to a lesser degree AV had trouble with defensive rotations – Big Ben will not. His contract is 3 years like Hughes and since it is bigger we have a bigger slot to fill when he leaves.
Joe Smith – another big to rotate with Z, Ben and AV Joe replaces much of Drew’s offense and is a heady veteran as well. Great team player
Wally World – slightly better than Donyell on offense and slightly worse on D. Wally should help spread the court with Gibson or Damon when Lebron drives to the hoop. His contract will be easy to trade next year at the deadline with Joe Smith, Damon, AV, Snow to get a real star next year in Feb.
Delonte West – at worst he will sit the bench like Shannon did, but I think he could be the spark we need at the point. He can shoot a little
Losing Gooden – there is a very good reason that he didn’t play at the end of close games. He really was viewed as a stop-gap replacement for Boozer and has been in every trade that we have proposed.
Losing Hughes – I would rather have a poor shooting athletic center (Wallace) for 3 years than a poor shooting athletic guard for 3 years. Their wasn’t anything that Hughes did that Devin Brown cannot do.
I keep hearing how much perimeter defense we lost and how many starters. It’s retarded. Last night Legler said Ira Newble was a starter!!!
No Tim, watch a Cavs game you idiot. It’s also the reason why LeBron won’t win the NBA when he is having the best season in the NBA and it isn’t that close. (Chris Paul is #2)
I love this deal, it makes us better now and in the future. The national media can stick it! The Cavs will be the Eastern Conference representative in the NBA Finals this year and they nee dto deal with it.
Yo Sean – Ira was in the starting lineup for the past month! Legler’s not the idiot … who is?
Dont forget that Wallace’s contract was very front loaded, meaning the Cavs are going to pay him less the next two years of his contract.
Also, Hughes had a lot of incentives, which made his contract more expensive. So we really got a good deal between the two.
Overall, I like the trade as stated before. However, I can just hear it now “Boatshoes finally did one move, but it took him too long to do it.”
Not to call guys out but a couple of you act like donyell brought something to the table. He brought nothing. He is fat, lazy, slow, and shooting less than 30% for the YEAR. He is the absolute epitome of terrible. I can’t even remember the last time that Marshall could actually show up on an NBA court and not embarrass himself, his team, and his team’s fans. I know Wally brings his own baggage but lets all thank the lord that Donyell is taking his Saturday morning at the YMCA grade game 3000 miles away.
c’mon harry! newble played because of injuries. otherwise was a high-priced cheerleader.
it’s obvious some of these media guys do not know the cavs. you would think after last years playoffs they would have some idea of the dynamics of the team. legler can have ira newble. and tony kornholer can have american idol. good trade. it still leaves roster flexibility in the future and the reconfigured team is worth a shot because the old version didn’t cut it.
OK, some of the commenters above are starting to move me towards a net positive opinion on the trade. I hadn’t realized what a solid season Joe Smith was having, and his accurate mid-range jumper will be very helpful to the offensive efficiency. I think the trade will help us make a big move next year as well, that is very positive.
I still think our perimeter D is now much worse (and it was already suspect) and can easily be exploited by Billups and Rip among other quality guards. However, this new tougher squad seems well suited to take close games late into the 4th Q where we know Lebron is the best player in the NBA.
One question, are any of these new guys going to play tonight in Washington? Will we have enough players to field a team? We traded 6 guys and at least 3 are out w/ injuries. ESPN is reporting that Gibson is out 4-6 weeks, that’s a tough break.
Nice blog Tom, I agree pretty much across the board. I have a hard time understanding how people that are paid to follow the NBA can be so clueless (Bucher, Charley Rosen) and lazy.
WOW.
Add Chad Ford to that list for this gem:
And the team’s cap flexibility is now practically gone. It’s doubtful Danny Ferry can make another big move before LeBron hits free agency in 2010.
HMMMM 30 million next year seems like it equals flexibility to me, and the BW contract comes off the books at the end of ‘09.
it would be really great if we scored BRENT BARRY too!… he was cut by the sonics
Regarding the trade, it seems like there are a lot of doubters outside of Cleveland. Don’t know why. Danny Ferry and the Cavs followed all the rules when making a trade:
1. Upgrade your team. Done. Wallace can’t score, but he gives the Cavs tough defense and rebounding and his numbers will go up playing for a contender. Joe Smith can replace Gooden for the next year or two, and we weren’t going to have Drew any longer than that anyway. Wally can help the Cavs spread the floor which is what they’ve needed to do for three years now. He’s also big and can create his own shot. West is a decent point guard who plays good defense, and he’s still young and may improve/
2. Don’t give up any core guys. Done. Gooden is an above average player but constantly misses defensive assignments. He has one good game and then one bad, and often disappears for long stretches of time. Hughes has always been a disappointment, can’t stay healthy and was so banged up by the end of last year that he was useless in the finals. Shannon Brown was never going to see the light of day here. Newble and Marshall were bad contracts that provided little to nothing–they had to go. Cedric Simmons…see Shannon Brown.
3. Don’t dig a financial hole for your team. Avoided. Wallace is a bad contract, but so was Hughes. We’re not on the hook for a long time with any of these guys and will still be able to look into free agency for 2008 and especially 2009.
I just don’t see how anyone can say the Cavs did poorly with this deal. I see this is as a slight to moderate upgrade of their current roster, which with Lebron, just might be enough.
Alan asked me to pass this message on since he’s too embarrassed to speak today:
“The trade sucks, Danny Ferry sucks, Mike Brown sucks, Dan Gilbert sucks. Just when Larry Hughes begins to show why the CAVS brought him in we ship him out. People, where do I begin?”
Thoughts on the trade:
- I am excited about the trade. I like it. Patrick McManamon likened it to shuffling chairs. I’m not sure what that means, but I’ll assume he was sleepy at the time. I think this trade is like playing 5-card draw. Ferry saw Hughes and Gooden as a pair of 6’s with his Ace kicker in LeBron. They were good enough to win a few hands, but not likely to bring home the big pot. So he threw them in and picked up some unknowns, hoping that things work out.
- When it comes to bigs, the Cavs traded one-for-two. That’s the way it has to be if you want to have success in this league.
- It’s funny how the talents of incoming players get inflated. Delonte West has spurts where he looks like a good player, but those were so rare that he found himself as the third-string point guard on a team that is 25 games under .500. He has size, but does not have the speed to push the ball, or to stay in front of opposing guards defensively. He wasn’t Andre Miller before the Cavs acquired him, and he’s not going to be Andre Miller now. Adding West merely gives the Cavs a chance to compare him to Boobie Gibson, as both will become restricted free agents after the season.
- All of the players the Cavs added are slow. Wallace and Smith are old guys with a lot of miles on their legs, while Szerbiack makes Z look fleet of foot. At least we know Ferry wasn’t bowing to pressure from the media to turn the Cavs into a running team.
- Ben Wallace’s attitude will be a huge factor in the success of this trade. If he is willing to accept his role as defender and rebounder, then things should be fine. If he thinks he should be treated like a top-20 player, then he’s going to be a distraction. I’m also worried that when Wallace is on the floor, opposing teams will constantly double-team LeBron like they used to when Eric Snow was getting minutes.
- Normally, I would expect veteran players to chafe at Mike Brown’s “offense.” Guys that have been around the NBA know a bad offensive gameplan when they see it. But all of these players are coming from teams that had terrible offenses as well. Szerbiack and West were playing in Seattle, where the coaching staff decided to spend the entire season watching Kevin Durant shoot them to another top-3 lottery spot. Wallace and Smith were playing in Scott Skiles’ offense, which became Jim Boylan’s offense, but never stopped sucking. As a result, the new guys might be less inclined to constantly complain about their offensive role, as Larry Hughes was wont to do.
- At the end of they day, I think Szerbiack will be the player that has the most impact on the Cavaliers. If he can be a more efficient version of Hughes on the offensive end, that will be an upgrade. And there’s a chance that his huge expiring contract could be the linchpin in a big deal next year. And I expect to see a lot of Wally jerseys sold between now and the playoffs.
- I like Joe Smith, and thought he would be a nice addition a while ago. But I didn’t think the Bulls would move one of their few productive players to another team in the division.
- At the end of the day though, I like this trade because it should renew the enthusiasm about the team. All the talk about the need for a trade was more psychological than anything else. The Cavs and their fans had gotten a little complacent, a little bored, and this big shake up could pay big dividends in the short term. As of Sunday, the possibilities for the season are endless yet again.
Go Cavs.
Mike C.
Hoops, why even say that? Why give him any importance? You’re just as bad with that crap. The blog has been great the last few days even with the folks who disagree with the trade and Ferry in general. Their is no outright hostility and rudeness that this person constantly brings to the blog. As long as he is away, let’s leave it at that. You bringing unnecessary attention to him is just stupid as he’ll be the jackass he always is when he posts something next. Leave well enough alone and try to ignore it when the current coma crisis is over.
FWIW, the BEST analysis of this trade comes from, somewhat remarkably, simmons over at ESPN.com:
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/080223
marvel at how he actually writes like he’s see n the cavs play this year!
gasp as he mentions that an LBJ-led team needs consistently from it’s parts!
thrill as he now thinks the cavs are the eastern favs this year over his beloved celtics and actually backs it up with a cogent argument!
again, best analysis yet…
I laugh whenever I see Charley Rosen’s name. He also predicted LeBron would be one of the biggest busts to ever hit the NBA.
Simmons has been pimpin LBJ and the Cavs this year pretty hard.
He’s quoted as having a Cavs vs. Jazz Finals.
I truly feel like he watches games why many of the blowhards just catch glimpses. He loves the NBA and I find myself agreeing with him maybe more than anyone that follows the NBA affliated with ESPN, TNT or what have you.
His adoration for LBJ this year has been borderline stalking…and he’s right as all of us Cavs fans know.
By the way Harry, Ira isn’t a starter.
Dude wasn’t even playing the first 25+ games. “Starters” don’t average 18 minutes a game. You can’t be serious giving me the “he’s on the floor to start the game stuff”…Boobie hurt, Sasha hurt, Brown liking D. Brown off the bench, D. Jones gets more minutes…You can’t call Newble a real starter, maybe a default one.
Not that we needed any validation but kj I agree. For as much as Simmons has lost credibility with his incessant Boston blowing, the guy understands the NBA. It took him a couple of paragraphs to make the few obvious but important points about this trade that seem to be lost on most of the other “experts.” I like it that guys like Simmons and Hollinger like the trade while a bunch of the tv sock puppets and cavs haters like Rosen just spout a bunch of ridiculous nonsense that proves that they’ve only seen a handful of Cavs games all year (and didn’t even bother to look at the Cavs cap situation after this deal). Once again, I will say it now and even if it doesn’t work out, I will stick with it: Well done Danny Ferry. You put together a move that most of us would have never even thought about (and rightfully so with Wallace’s contract) that makes us a much better team now and doesn’t do damage going forward. Well done. You have just proven your worth to this fan.
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