Cavs at Knicks
Posted December 19th, 2007 by bwindhorst
Pregame
Starting lineups
Cavs: Daniel Gibson, Sasha Pavlovic, LeBron James, Drew Gooden, Zydrunas Ilgauskas
Knicks: Jamal Crawford, Fred Jones, Quentin Richardson, Zach Randolph, Eddy Curry
–Ladies and gents, this could be a wild night at the Garden. I am actually looking forward to experiencing it. The Daily News ran “Fire Isiah” signs in the paper for people to hold up tonight. The fans are out for blood. The players are pissed Thomas called them out in the media the other day. Whoa, it’s like watching a train wreck.
–Before the game, LeBron said he felt bad for Isiah and that the Knicks don’t give effort more nights and that he’d never allow that on his team. Considering he ripped Stephon Marbury a few weeks ago, you can assume he’s not a huge fan of the Knicks team. I assume his comments will be splashed everywhere tomorrow.
–Several Cavs joked in the locker room that they should wear helmets in case the fans start throwing stuff on the floor. Of course, that won’t happen unless the Cavs actually win the game.
–The Knicks are a terrible defensive team and they often are selfish on offense. However, they do have good post scorers and streaky shooters. So if the Cavs play the defense they did last time they were here (last week vs. Jersey) they can easily get beat. If they work hard on defense like they have the last two nights, they will be in good shape.
–LeBron has never really had a big game in the Garden. He’s really not had a great game since he’s been back from injury. Does that make him due? We’ll see.
Halftime — Knicks 63, Cavs 50
–Pretty sad referendum on the Cavs considering the Knicks are playing harder than them. Especially David Lee, who has 17 points and eight rebounds in the half. He is a crowd favorite and he has gotten the crowd to forget about Isiah for awhile. Overall, the Knicks are much, much more aggressive than the Cavs. Reminds me of several other games I have seen of late.
–LeBron started out very strong and aggressive but then with four minutes left in the first quarter he seemed to get him on his left hand going for a rebound. Then he had a collision with Zach Randolph and he’s seemed to be a little different player since. He’s not attacking the pick-and-rolls, he’s waiting for the double teams. Sort of like against the Sixers.
–It was pretty easy to see that Isiah is trying to send a message to a few players. Eddy Curry played just two minutes and he rode Malik Rose and Lee, two guys who are known for always playing hard, a bunch. Basically, he’s not putting his most talented team out there, he’s putting his hardest working team. It is working against the Cavs.
–The Cavs gave up 58 percent shooting in the first half and are getting killed in transition. The Knicks have been hot from the outside, but slow rotations and slow-footed big men have hurt them. Ilgauskas and Anderson Varejao are in foul trouble and Gooden couldn’t begin to stop Lee. Cavs are on pace for 100 points, that should be enough to win. Same old story, here.
Postgame — Knicks 108, Cavs 90
Stars
David Lee, 22 points, 11 rebounds
Jamal Crawford, 21 points, six assists
LeBron James, 32 points, eight rebounds, six assists, six steals
–The Rev. Jesse Jackson came to the Cavs locker room after the game. Perhaps he wanted to speak to them about their defensive boycott.
–Here’s how bad the Cavs were tonight…The Knicks got a standing ovation.
–56 percent shooting, 50 points in the paint, 22 points off turnovers. Seen all of this before…this was the sixth time the Cavs lost by 18 points or more. For detail analysis, please refer to any of the posts from those games. Same story.
–The Nets have two wins in their last eight games, both the against the Cavs. The Knicks haven’t beaten anyone by more than eight points until tonight. They love the Cavs here in the NY/NJ metro.
–In case you were wondering Larry Hughes is 11-of-45 in the last four games. Sasha Pavlovic is 6-of-24.
–So which was the Cavs focusless play of the nights was your favorite: A. Calling a fulltime out and thinking it was a 20-second timeout, so they stood on the court arguing about it while the Knicks were still in their huddle. B. Sasha Pavlovic’s perfect bounce pass to a cutting Nate Robinson for a layup. C. LeBron arguing with the ref over a call as a Knick scored a layup right behind him.
–Though LeBron can’t be faulted tonight. He played hard and tried to get the Cavs back in the game. He was more than a little frustrated with his teammates, although he’s getting beat a fair amount in defensive rotation, too.
–I saw some complaining in the comments about LeBron coming out in the third quarter. For the record, he asked to come out with three minutes left and it took almost two minutes before he could. He was gassed at that point. Plus you can’t make a comeback if you can’t get stops.
–It is fair at this point to start to question Mike Brown. He has openly said that he didn’t devote enough time to defense in training camp and it’s hurting the team. Ultimately, it is his responsibility to fix it. But these are the same players as last year. Yes, the team could use some upgrades at the offensive end, starting with a point guard. But defensively, these guys know how to play better and they aren’t and some of the blame has to go there.
Quotes:
Mike Brown: “We think it is going to be easy, like we can show up and win the game. If guys on our team think we defended tonight, we’re going to be in trouble.”
LeBron: “They beat us pretty bad, we had no answer for them defensively and they took advantage of it. It doesn’t matter who you are playing against, if you don’t play defense you’re going to get beat up.”
Isiah: “We want everybody leaving the arena feeling good and feeling like they had a good time.”
December 19th, 2007 at 9:38 pm
How can the Cavs give up 63 points to the KNICKS in the first half?!?!??! No defense!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am going to watch a couple real teams play… Celtics vs Pistons on ESPN.
December 19th, 2007 at 9:39 pm
What is wrong with this team? Is this a coaching issue?
December 19th, 2007 at 9:44 pm
This team appears to have quit on Mike Brown. They’re obviously not listening to anything he has to say.
Three years of watching them ebb and flow under Brown, never truly achieving elite status execpt for two months last spring. It appears the flow is gone and only the ebb remains. I don’t see them pulling out of this slump anytime soon.
Maybe it’s not a slump. Maybe they’re just this bad.
This might all end with Mike Brown fired and an interim coach, which would be LeBron’s fifth coach in five years. Simply pathetic.
December 19th, 2007 at 9:47 pm
wow! this game is sheer crap! mike brown isn’t going anywhere. this season is a bust and everyone in the organization knows it.
December 19th, 2007 at 10:24 pm
Alan T has got to be loving this!!
How about that no look pass from Sasha to Nate Robinson for a dunk! This is embarrassing. And I thought the Knicks were one of the worst teams in the league too!
I hope the Lakers don’t blow us out tommorrow night!
December 19th, 2007 at 10:26 pm
This is painful. This team is doing a lot of talking about playing better, but they certainly aren’t backing those words up on the court. They’re making the Knicks look like the Suns.
Throughout this bad stretch the Cavs have looked ill-prepared, unfocused and lethargic. Now that LeBron and Andy are back, the team is no longer at a talent disadvantage. The problem is the gameplan and the execution. It seems like a failure of leadership. This is the kind of game that ends with people calling up the sportstalk shows and calling for the Coach’s head.
Go Cavs. Good Luck.
Mike C.
December 19th, 2007 at 10:33 pm
The only hope the Cavs had in this game was to ride Lebron, who was having an amazing stretch trying to single handedly get the Cavs back in the game. Brown took him out, following his ridiculous substitution schedule. Brown seems to have no idea how to control the ebb and flow of a basketball game, and I am getting tired of it. Just like he did last year, and just like most great players in their prime, sometimes Lebron is going to have to play the entire second half. This is one of those nights. When Lebron scored 10 straight Cavaliers points in the third quarter, they should have just kept going to him again and again - the Knicks have no one that can guard the rim, and Lebron is the one player one the Cavs that can create his own penetration and consistently finish. And yet after a couple minutes, we’re back to the Newble/Brown/Hughes/Varejao squad with no ‘Bron.
December 19th, 2007 at 10:37 pm
I think the problem is a combination of coaching and bad players. I mean, this team has obviously quit on Mike Brown (what was LeBron saying about “never letting this happen to HIS team?….well, LeBron, it’s happening) and that’s a serious problem. But with the exception of LeBron, this team is awful. Who do you feel comfortable with being on the court?
December 19th, 2007 at 10:37 pm
So frustrating.
December 19th, 2007 at 10:42 pm
Wow. We’re getting beat by 20 to the Knicks. Madison Square Garden hasn’t had cheers this loud since Patrick Ewing was lumbering down the court. There they go; another uncontested layup down the lane. Amazing. I feel bad for the old potato head; Boatshoes will have to blame someone. The sad thing is the complete lack of effort. So lackadaisical. They don’t care. My god, the Cavs may not make the playoffs.
December 19th, 2007 at 10:55 pm
It isn’t time to panic. But it is time to be very concerned. This is clearly the worst and most embarrassing loss of the season and a big red flag. The Cavaliers need to make a trade for Andre Miller. He is available and Ferry just needs to get it done. The offense stagnates because it is completely dependent on Lebron in every phase and that just isn’t workable in the long run - especially when everyone else in the East has gotten better. We are seriously hurt by Hughes who cannot play 20 productive minutes consistently. Hughes and Pavlovic (who shouldn’t have been re-signed) are a combined something like 6-30.
December 19th, 2007 at 10:55 pm
Do you have to stay for the whole game Brian? Or can reporters cut out early when they don’t like what they see? I would hate to have to sit and watch this in person. Unbelievable.
December 19th, 2007 at 11:51 pm
Cavs only had 2 players in double figures…and Gooden just barely made it with 11. Sasha and Larry both shot 30% from the field and were a combined 1 for 6 from the FT line. Those two are dragging a$$ lately.
We need a TRUE point gaurd….somebody who can run this lethargic offense. And Jesus H Christ, what happened to our defense…and rebounding? Man this team needs to get going!
Hi Alan!
December 20th, 2007 at 12:08 am
Other than being inept on offense, defense, rebounding, hustle and heart, I thought they played pretty well.
December 20th, 2007 at 12:27 am
The Cavs think it’s better to give than to receive.
Play some defense Drew Puddin!
December 20th, 2007 at 12:40 am
brian, stop bein so damn nICe in your blog or your coverage. THIS TEAM NEEDS TO BE RIPPED!! AND THAT STARTS WITH THE MEDIA!! IF THIS WAS NEW YORK< MIKE BROWN AND THE CAVS WOULD GET PUMMELLED!! STOP BEING SO NICE AND RIP THIS TEAM!!!! CAUSE THE MORE THE MEDIA RIPS THEM, MAYBE A CHANGE WILL COME!!!
December 20th, 2007 at 12:55 am
I can second that about how painful it was to watch this in person.. I was there. What an absolute disgrace. This team is looking unrecognizable from the confident, capable team that dismantled the Pistons last spring. They are completely adrift, with seemingly no solution in site. It’s traumatizing.
December 20th, 2007 at 1:05 am
So with this loss, in this stretch before Lebron’s pinky injury, they are 2-10? That’s enough to bring them down the rankings from reigning Eastern Conference Champions to this year’s Knicks. But now that they’ve lost to the most downtrodden, “effortless” team would it be appropriate that the NBA starts thinking of “disenfranchising” the Cavs and send them to the NBDL where they belong?
Where is the pride? Or they simply seem to be too overconfident that they feel arrogantly assured of a playoff spot?
How I pray that the losses to pile up so a change for the better actually happens (will be happy with either one-hire a competent point guard or replace Mike Brown).
December 20th, 2007 at 1:07 am
Oh hell, I’ll be happy with Jon Kuester taking over!
December 20th, 2007 at 3:06 am
Couldn’t agree with you more Eddie! Show me some more balls from you Brian! I’m being quite nice to you and I am generally a nice person, but please call it as it is! You boast of this blog being a realist but obviously it isn’t and the stench of mediocrity is so discernible and recognizable all the way here in Manila Philippines!!
December 20th, 2007 at 3:17 am
And btw, good luck to even selling 10 copies of your “Franchise” book-I don’t even know what franchise are you talking about. No longer relevant!
December 20th, 2007 at 8:04 am
It sure seems out of character for Mike Brown to ignore defense in training camp. He was responding to outside pressure, and he shouldn’t have. It’s too bad but he’d find work pretty fast, with his record and playoff success.
Outside LeBron, I’m not sure I’d say the Cavs have a full compliment of talent, or even as much talent as the lowly Knicks. Sitting on your hands a couple summers will do that to a roster.
I wonder who Ferry will tap if the team decides to go with another coach. Didn’t his mentor Popovich fire a coach and come out of the GM spot to coach the Spurs? That would be interesting.
December 20th, 2007 at 8:53 am
After watching last night’s other televised games (BOS/DET, PHO/DAL) I have no idea how about 2/3 of our team is even in the NBA. The god aweful Knicks have far more competent players than we do. How we made it to the Finals last year is beyond me. That just speaks to Lebron’s greatness.
Larry Hughes should be nailed to the end of the bench. Lebron scored 8 straight last night attempting to start the rally and then here comes Hughes jacking those terrible pull-up jump shots. Hughes, YOU CAN’T SHOOT, so drive the ball, pass the ball, please do something to earn the ridiculous contract that you have.
Any team with Lebron James on it shouldn’t be unwatchable, and that is where we are at with the Cavs. They don’t defend anymore, there offense is back to where it was last year, and Lebron gets no help. What happened to Gooden and Z consistently pulling their weight?
December 20th, 2007 at 10:05 am
This is getting disgusting to watch!
The lack of basketball maturity as a team is despicable! These are a group of individuals playing together, not a team!
A few things that are really hard to understand;
1. What’s with all the jumpshots? I understand the only player on the team that can drive to the basket is LeBron, maybe Devin Brown. The rest of them are bad shooters taking jumpshots. Yes, Z can make that shot but is that really what you want your seven foot center doing?
2. When anyone does tries to drive to the basket, how is it they don’t understand HOW to draw contact, draw the foul and go to the line? They all drive, show the ball and get it blocked or adjust to a chuck! Don’t they teach this at ALL LEVELS? Watch any CSU game and you’ll see!
3. This is a very single minded defensive team, there’s no ability to make adjustment in stride or as things develop.
4. There are some large holes that needed fixing if anything good is going to happen. LeBron needs a second fiddle that can create something, anything on his own. They would have to be able to get to the rim and finish. (NO Hughes is NO WAY near the answer, at this point my grandmother has more lift then he does!). Boy, A penetrating PG would like nice, ala Andre Miller (I really like that Lowry kid on Memphis). Speaking to a few friends, we tossed around the idea of Gooden and Ira’s contract plus a player or two (possibly Amon Ones for spot shooting) to the Lakers for Lamar Odom, but that’s a heck of a contract to take on.
(Wouldn’t a Beno Uldrich look good right about now? He would of cost NOTHING!)
5. Somebody has to speak to LeBron about making his move BEFORE the defensive has time to adjust to their 3 on LeBron and 2 for the rest style. Teams are putting three players on LeBron, one on the ball and two on each flank. If he’s not going to get any help, he needs to make his decisions quicker not allowing the defensive time to adjust.
6. How did this team make it to the Finals last year? I watched it, But I don’t see! Is Donyell Marshall that important to this team?
Oh well, on to game 27 and the Lakers!
Kobe has to eager as hell to get a piece of this defense!
December 20th, 2007 at 10:20 am
Also, would Ferry do this just to get a Andre Miller?
Gooden and Ira to Philly for Miller and Jason Smith?
As I told the buddies, it would be hard to give up those rebounds and a young athletic big man for Miller.
December 20th, 2007 at 10:33 am
I don’t know what more you would want Brian to say. Do we need to use Caps or add exclamation points to express our disappointment with the team? It might be cathartic, but it won’t change the analysis.
- As pathetic as the defense was last night, one could make the argument that a crummy offense was part of the problem. The Knicks were pushing after every missed basket, and rather than pound the post and limit those opportunities, the Cavs opted to keep hoisting jump shots. The transition defense was horrible, but the Cavaliers kept giving the Knicks a chance to get out and run.
- It didn’t help that Z ran into foul trouble, and Gooden was non-existent. LeBron also stayed out of the post. The lack of a post game played right into the Knicks gameplan.
- Varejao decided last night was a good opportunity to hone his whirling dervish post game. It’s not often that you see a 5-foot jump shot never get above the rim.
- Daniel Gibson: 30 minutes, 4 shots. He’s not being aggressive, and that’s at least partially because he has trouble creating his own shot. Gibson is on this team because of the offensive firepower he can bring. If he’s only getting 4 shots, you might as well have Eric Snow out there. At least Snow isn’t such a defensive liability.
- Only the Knicks would watch as Eddy Curry destroys Anderson Varejao for two straight possessions, then go away from him the next time down the floor. The Knicks are such a selfish team. Lots of talent, but zero chemistry.
- Which makes the loss last night so embarassing.
Go Cavs. I’m sure the national spotlight will wake them up. I mean, they were only playing at MSG last night.
Mike C.
December 20th, 2007 at 10:46 am
I watched the Celtics vs Pistons last night. Now those are the two TEAMS that will play in the EC final. Just look at their rosters. Top to bottom they are solid. And they are both very consistent. Detroit got lucky and won this particular matchup, but in a 7 game series they would definitely battle it out for 7 games.
I love the Cavs, but when you look at their roster you will pretty easily see that they were overachievers last year and had the easy road to the EC Final. It will not be that easy this year and I hate to say it but I don’t see the Cavs making it back. They just don’t have the consistent quality play from anybody besides Lebron, while Detroit and Boston are just stacked with talent that performs at their peak pretty much on a nightly basis. I don’t see anybody except maybe Orlando competing with them.
December 20th, 2007 at 11:07 am
i just cannot up and make a trade, sure i would love dre miller but who do i have anyone that the 76er’s want? I know its not lame larry, they do not want him back, Z do not fit there style and boobie is a free agent next year but his salary do not match dre miller, so im stuck, yes i messed this team up, kind of remind me of the time big wayne traded ron harper to the clippers to get me, well thats how bad i feel. Im sorry cleveland, I tried hard to make amends, but i dropped the ball. its going to be a while but i hope to make the situation better, give me a couple of years, hopefully by then my boy “bron bron” will stick around for his new caddies. Im trying just have to be patient, hell enjoy the browns this winter and do not focus to much on my goof up over at quick and loans, hell d gilbert do not take my calls anymore. but i will make it thru, just do not treat me like they treat “zeke” over in new york. alright im out of here, your lame gm danny ferry.
December 20th, 2007 at 12:53 pm
I don’t get it. What does any of this have to do with Mike Brown? A dunce in the front office forces him to play Shannon Brown against his will because they hope to dump what little is remaining of salary on somebody. A dunce in the front office tells him Eric Snow is his best option at point guard. A dunce in the front office tells him that Daniel Gibson is a point guard. A dunce in the front office tells him that maybe Daniel Gibson isn’t a point guard, but maybe Larry Hughes can sometimes double as one. A dunce in the front office tells him that Zydrunas Ilgauskas is a wonderful complement to LeBron James, as if Secretariat and box turtles are natural companions in the wild. A dunce in the front office says, “Oops, I have zero confidence in that Shannon Brown fellow,” so he sends a handwritten note attached to a carrier pigeon and begs the very same agent he spent five months pissing off and makes a deal for an ostracized Serb with a Dracula widow’s peak. On and on and on and on and on and on.
They’ll be in the playoffs in May, James will again have carried them there. The only question I have is why anybody really expected anything else. This squad has a several season consistently random history of ebbs and flows and peaks and valleys. Pretty soon James will carry them to an eight-game winning streak, and the same people knocking them will be riding the ‘ol bandwagon again.
December 20th, 2007 at 1:37 pm
Count me in when the bandwagon arrives. What happens if it comes immediately after Hughes is hurt again? When do they suck it up and cut that guy?
I hope we can read the touching story behind the Hughes signing in the BJ soon. Is it in the book?
December 20th, 2007 at 2:45 pm
They way this team has played, you need to question if Brown is the right coach. They got to the finals last year beacause of a weak East and the play of their superstar and some good defense. IF they aren’t listening to him, he’s not the right coach. Would Jerry Sloan accept what’s happened? Pat Riley? Popovich? Pathetic. This is a low point for them. They need to wake up and give defensive effort night in and night out. They wanted a new offense and they got it. I’m tired of hearing how Larry Hughes has quietly protested playing the point. Who cares? How about playing some good basketball. He used to be considered a good defensive player in Washington with lots of steals, what happened? This team has no heart and no guts and it showed in last year’s finals. Time for someone other than LeBron to show he cares! sick to my stomach!
December 20th, 2007 at 3:25 pm
I almost feel sorry for Lebron James. Yes, he is rich beyond all our wildest dreams. But carrying this much dead weight while under the constant scrutiny of the inter-national sports media and the title hopes of an entire region has got to be exausting, both physically and emotionally. I look at this team and see two other players that can be considered good nba players. Drew and Z. And both of them have glaring deficiencies in their games. They both are absolutely dependent on James, too. But, for the most part, at least offensively, they do help James. After them, I’m not sure what is on the Cavs.
December 20th, 2007 at 3:48 pm
The players “aren’t listening to him?” What’s to listen to? “LeBron will set you up on offense. Don’t do anything stupid. And we’re using the same defenses we’ve used since the day I was hired. Continue using them.” They’re not “listening” to this? Maybe those terrific team doctors did something to their ears.
December 20th, 2007 at 4:57 pm
why is everybody hating on my boy mike brown, look at phil up in l.a. he turn that group around, and what about pat up in miami he is struggling but know one is hating on him and he has two legit super stars. whats up with sheed saying the pistons are the team to beat, has he forgotten already that we beat them last year, where is my boy rodney dangerfied when i need him? “no respect”, thats alright we will ride the “L-train”, thru the motor city again this year, watch out because he will be taken flight.
December 20th, 2007 at 6:05 pm
BW, my favorite focusless play from last night was not on your list. It was when Jared Jeffries picks up a loose ball about 30 feet from the hoop, Damon Jones steps out beyond the 3 point line to pick him up then the 6-11 Jeffries proceeds to blow by Jones for an easy layup. How Damon Jones did’nt make Bill Simmons ‘25 worst contracts list is beyond me.
December 20th, 2007 at 6:10 pm
Sasha need to watch Tony Parker tape to help him finish. Boobie NEEDS MORE SHOTS! How can u be the best shooter on the team and only get 4 shots? Dwayne Jones need weight training. Mike Brown can do something about tthose things. The players know what he expects on defense they need more heart.
I know their record will be worse this year than the last. 17.5 million down the drain that Should Have went to a point guard.