Varejao and Pavlovic in uncharted waters
Posted October 1st, 2007 by admin
For the last two years the Cavaliers have mostly enjoyed harmony and good chemistry. It has been part of the reason they’ve become one of the best teams in the league even though from top to bottom they do not have the best talent. While other teams have had players fight, demand trades, boycott their coach and the like, the Cavs have gotten along for the most part. Those intangibles and under valued attributes like defense and rebounding made the Cavs an elite team. But, as Paul Silas liked to say, “Ain’t nothing in the NBA going to be a bed of roses.” So, at long last, here come some thorns.
Despite having three months to reach deals, the Cavs will open training camp without Sasha Pavlovic and Anderson Varejao. Neither of them signed deals my midnight Sunday and they are now, effectively, holding out.
I have written a great deal about Sasha and Andy over the last few months. There is no way to predict how things will go now. Their decision to not take qualifying offers is unprecedented in recent NBA history. It is a radical attempt to summon up some leverage, which they do not have now. There is some belief among people in the league that Varejao and Pavlovic are actually working together behind the scenes are are trying to put pressure on the Cavs by staying at home. There will certainly be pressure on the front office from the Cavs players and coaches, who surely want their full team on the floor, and from the fans, most of whom don’t understand why the Cavs aren’t signing key players.
Here is the nitty gritty: Money is so tight in the NBA right now that agents are getting radical. Only two free agents got more than the mid-level exception this summer while changing teams, Rashard Lewis and Darko Milicic. Guess how many free agents got the full mid-level exception for max years this summer? Try zero. Three years ago, there were around a dozen, last year there were just four. They were Joel Pryzbilla (Blazers), Nazr Mohammed (Pistons), Vladimir Radmanovic (Lakers) and Jared Jeffries (Knicks). Think any of those teams are happy with those deals at this point? Well, it’s showing in the marketplace.
Last season, Mavericks owner Mark Cuban correctly predicted this summer would be a “nuclear winter” for free agents. For the most part, he was right. Guess what, a peek at next summer looks like it will even be worse because there is less money and better free agents. After heavy spending from 2004-2006 (including a big salary-cap jump in ‘05), many teams are very close to the luxury tax these days and spending likely isn’t going back up until the summer of 2009.
Sasha and Andy are caught in the tightening and the Cavs are staring at a market without opposing bidders and where flexibility with contracts is more valuable than salary-cap space. So Danny Ferry is making what he considers is the proper decision for the long-term health of the roster and franchise, even if it is unpopular. Meanwhile, Pavlovic and Varejao are coming off career years and trying to get paid like their brethern have for the last three summers. They can’t be blamed for that.
I can explain all day why there is an impasse, but I can’t tell you how or when it is going to get resolved.
October 1st, 2007 at 1:49 am
The question missing from this post is whether the Cavs can survive without one or both of them. One would think that we can survive more easily without Sasha since we have a number of SG types behind Larry Hughes. With Gibson’s emergence, it appeared that Sasha would take a seat on the bench anyway. I don’t know if Devin Brown can fill the gap, but between him, Shannon Brown, and possibly Gibson when Snow is at PG, we have some options. Andy may be more missed, although theoretically Donyell Marshall can pick up some of the slack. Problem is that he was deteriorating already last year and the newly-acquired Cedric Simmons is probably too green to fill in adequately. Nevertheless, my guess is that the team is willing to use Marshall as the third big off the bench and Simmons as a defensive #4 where necessary. With a few roster spots remaining open, we may also pick up another big who can swing between PF and C, especially after rosters are pared down.
October 1st, 2007 at 7:01 am
Danny Ferry sure is breaking some new ground with his mysterious negotiating tactics. First LeBron’s unprecedented snub last summer, now these two unprecedented snubs.
Come to think of it, Ferry also got snubbed by the Spurs this summer, in regard to Luis Scola. That’s got to hurt right about now considering the Verajao fiasco.
October 1st, 2007 at 9:01 am
I think that Ferry is doing the right thing here. It doesn’t appear that the Cavs are trying to lowball either free agent, they aren’t trying to pay them more than they deserve though.
October 1st, 2007 at 9:12 am
How is it not possible to be a Cleveland Cavaliers fan and not love the second-to-last paragraph? Ferry is a very prudent, principled and wise negotiatior looking out for the long-term health of the roster and the franchise. The same Duke-educated schmuck who had dispensed roster-killing contracts like they were bulk cases of Charmin on sale at Heinen’s is the quiet stern voice of reason in a professional sports world gone fiscally mad. Uhh … OK.
October 1st, 2007 at 9:35 am
Whatever Alan. STFU. At least Ferry isn’t making a knee-jerk reaction and “bidding against himself” (as you’ve accused him of doing in the past) and signing Pavlovic and Andy to bloated contracts.
We get it, you hate the Cavs. You’re going to rip whatever story is written here and whatever move the Cavs make. I just hope the Cavs make it to the Finals again this year so you can conveniently disappear again for a while. That was refreshing. Ferry is doing the right thing here by not signing them. If they want to hold out, let them. It’s certainly better than signing them for the sake of signing them.
October 1st, 2007 at 9:56 am
Uhh … no. I don’t hate the Cavs. I hate sports franchise executives that do stupid things. Ferry already ruined the roster, and now he’s suddenly the voice of reason? I’ve got 100 bucks that says Ferry will blink, and will ultimately sign Varejao to a silly Gooden-like contract exceeding the mid-level exception. Pavlovic, on the other hand, will never play another game for Cleveland.
October 1st, 2007 at 10:10 am
Ferry may be right not to overpay those two but in the end it’s his job to procure the talent that will allow the team to contend for a title.
He’s been dragging his feet all summer on the bet that those two have no leverage in negotiations. Now it’s getting late and it looks like they might not cave and Ferry is running out of options. The team’s depth could very well suffer and the roster would be worse than it was last season. That’s not success. That’s bungling.
Alan certainly has his detractors but he’s frustrated because he believes Ferry is treated with kid gloves in the press, no matter what he does. Alan is correct.
October 1st, 2007 at 10:12 am
By the way, JoeHoops … uh, I mean recknut nala, I’m wondering why, of all the rumors perpetually put out there as to who Danny Ferry was in the fox hunt to acquire, the one rumor never put out there was the one for Devin Brown. I don’t know, I find this sorta odd. Don’t you? I mean, 100 players Ferry supposedly was diligently working the phones trying to get his sweaty palms on, and he gets his hands on the 101st.
October 1st, 2007 at 10:47 am
[...] Brian Windhorst notes, this like something that has never happened. Sign-and-trades, or a team giving the Nenes/Dalemberts of the world $50M is the usual [...]
October 1st, 2007 at 10:59 am
[...] Brian Windhorst notes, that like something that has never happened. Sign-and-trades, or a team giving the Nenes/Dalemberts of the world $50M is the usual [...]
October 1st, 2007 at 11:57 am
Ahh, yes, Larry D., Mr. T. ( I pity the fool who tries to find logic in his arguments! ) is soooo very concerned about the Cavs and the fact that Ferry gets “treated with kid gloves in the press, no matter what he does.” Yes, “no matter what he does” like, oh I dunno, LEAD HIS TEAM TO THE EASTERN CONFERENCE CHAMPIONSHIP, WHICH, BTW, NO OTHER CAVS GM HAS DONE! For some unknown reason, this FACT gets rarely mentioned.
And it is beyond humorous to see the “haters” crawl out of the woodwork again to claim how indispensable Andy and Sasha are to the team, suddenly, when these same idiots ripped on their play at various points during the season.
I have not been on this blog for sometime, so I confess i may have missed it but was there praise for Ferry for getting the 14th pick of the ‘06 draft for DAVID WESLEY??? That seems like quite a coup for Ferry. But I’m sure the little GM that is Mr. T. will enlighten me how if Ferry had any brains he would’ve gotten Garnett for Wesley.
Are you people completely and utterly incapable of looking at the Big Picture? You seem to obsess over every move Ferry makes while never once admitting that the team he has constructed has gotten better every season! He is, by any objective standard, the most successful GM in Cavs history.
For the dullards out there, I am NOT advocating a ban on criticizing Ferry but rather i ask that you critics of him use your brain and THINK about what he has accomplished. Has he been perfect? No, but what GM is? But his recent moves have been quite good and that needs to be said.
Oh, and what would you wanna-be GM’s do with the Andy/Sasha situation? Let us hear your plan. Otherwise, please shut up, at least ’til the actual games start, please?
The Genius has…spoken!
October 1st, 2007 at 12:06 pm
If last season taught me one thing, it is that wins and losses in the regular season are not as important as growth. The Cavs lost lots of games they should have won last year and I was one of the people panicking. They can start the season without Pavs and Andy, a tired-legged LeBron (like last year) - questions at the PG spot, varying starting lineup etc. As long as each player makes a committment to improving (like Gibson and Pavlovic last yaer) and they play as a team, I have no doubt they will be back in the playoffs making noise. If they land a solid PG along the way, they could return to the Finals.
Varajeo and Pavlovic think they are putting all this pressure on the Cavs but I think they are the ones that are in trouble. I saw how much they helped our team last year but come playoff time, it was Boobie Gibson that was the 2nd scoring option (not Pavlovic) and while Varajeo played very nice D - Drew Gooden and Z scored the bulk of the points in the playoffs at the frontcourt positions. No other team in the league is going to pay these guys anywhere near what they want. They need to get to camp and start playing ball again to improve their skills. Someday they might be worth the money they are demanding now, but they aren’t going to get there by holding out.
October 1st, 2007 at 1:12 pm
Well, in improv they say the easiest thing in the world is to be negative…..
So you nay sayers, let me ask you this: would you have preferred they sign Varejao to a 5 year $65 million contract?
This is agents desperately trying something new after failing to get their clients sign in the summer. Varejao turned down an offer sheet for $9 million + a year from Memphis, probably under the assurances that he could get more. He can’t, and he keeps painting himself into a corner.
It doesn’t sound to me like Sasha get any real offers at all.
Also, I don’t think Gooden’s contract is silly at all - it seems right in line with a player of his caliber. In fact, proof that he has a good contract is that he is the Cav almost always brought up in trade rumours - he offers solid production and has good size.
October 1st, 2007 at 1:49 pm
I don’t have a problem with Ferry not giving in to overpaying Andy and Sasha. What baffles me is the fact that, facing this possibility all summer, the Cavs did nothing to prepare a potential season without the two (prior to the last-second Simmons and Brown moves). That just shows a total lack of foresight and planning.
October 1st, 2007 at 2:50 pm
Did anyone foresee Andy and Sasha’s agents so ridiculously misjudging the market for their clients? You’d think that everyone else saying “no” all summer would give them a hint.
I don’t think there is a lack of foresight or planning on the Cavs part - they know what they want, and we’ll see if they can get it.
If it means holdouts in camp, that is not the end of the world. If they lose both players, then it’s a problem, but that hasn’t happened yet. If there’s one thing the Cavs has shown (unlike other teams in the NBA and in other sports), they are willing to be patient. It may still pay off.
October 1st, 2007 at 3:43 pm
All I’m saying, Alan, is you can’t have it both ways. All you want to do is rip the Cavs and it gets old. Like I said, you clearly would have ripped Ferry to shreds had he bid against himself and overpayed for Andy and Sasha. So instead, he actually shows good judgement, and you still have to post a negative comment ripping him apart.
Ferry is definitely in a damned if you do, damned if you don’t position. People are going to rip on him if Andy and Sasha hold out like fools, and people will rip on him if he blinks and pays them. I’m not saying Ferry is a good GM. Far from it. The only good moves Ferry has made as GM were bringing in Flip Murray for the playoff run 2 years ago and correctly guessing that nobody would sign Gooden and he’d be able to re-sign him for significantly less than what he was originally looking for. Otherwise, the Hughes, Jones, Marshall, Ilgauskas, Wesley, Devin Brown, etc, etc, moves have all been HORRIBLE. But in THIS case, Ferry is doing the right thing, so give credit when it’s due.
October 1st, 2007 at 4:15 pm
I agree it is hard to foresee something like this happening, but that is what big-time, big-money business executives are paid to do: consider all possible options and outcomes, not only the most likely and obvious. In this regard, Ferry has failed, and the Cavs could be severely undermanned as a result.
October 1st, 2007 at 4:29 pm
No question Sasha and Andy are in conlusion, I had the same thought just looking at the circumstances. It’s too much “coincidence” to think they are both sitting on qualifying offers with everthing timed exactly the same. Andy asking for $60M over 5 years and Sasha asking for something akin is ludicrous. (just ask Eric Snow). Wait them out………the Cavs and Danny Ferry WILL prevail on this one. The signings of Devin Brown and the acquisition in the Wesley deal (can’t remember his name) are Cavs chips to show the holdout twins that their are other options.
October 1st, 2007 at 4:35 pm
If I was either Varejao or Sasha I would be questioning who exactly are their agents (Cornstein and Fegan) negotiating for?
As stated in early post above, these two agents really missed judged the markets for their clients and are now working to save face and not hurt their reputations with other clients.
Especially Fegan, if it’s true that Memphis offered Varejao a contract and if it was truly any where near or more then Gooden money ($6m) why didn’t they sign it? At this time, Gooden is the better play, as that stats show and by that shot Varejao chucked up in the finals. (Defensively, okay I’ll give you Varejao!)
If Varejao signs that offer sheet he’s receiving one heck of a pay increase for a 6 Pts & 5 Rbs a game player. So even if the Cavs matched the offer Varejao wins, right? Then the Cavs trade an over-the-hill $250,000 can’t make a lay-up veteran for an active PF that can play defense and block-shots, who’s only played one year and at 21 can have similar stats in the Cavs system as his client. (Not saying Simmons is Varejao, but Simmons can bring other aspects defensively that no other Cavs forward currently owns and was a Top 15 pick in the 2006 Draft for some reason.)
In Sasha’s case, Cornstein is also working to save face, he thought there was full mid-level money for Sasha who had ONE Career season where he averaged fewer than 10 pts a game and would be MIA in others, while playing with one of the best players (passers) in the NBA. Then watches the Cavs sign Devin Brown who owns better stats across the board, compared to his client, both season & career, for roughly the Veteran Minimum. Plus taking in to consideration the way Gibson showed in the Playoffs!
So exactly what have Fegan and Cornstein accomplished for their clients this off-season?
I’d be calling asking for some answers!
While signing that qualifying offer before it expires and save my NBA career!
October 1st, 2007 at 6:01 pm
Rihtard, well stated.
October 1st, 2007 at 8:22 pm
Are either of these guys allstars? Nope. They both are bench players. The guy with the hair can’t score and the other guy only scores sometimes. Pavlovik can go and nobody will notice. The guy with hair at least has some energy but he’s not worth $10,000,000 a year - that’s insane.
October 1st, 2007 at 11:46 pm
Yeah, but you don’t have to be Miss Cleo to guarantee that Ferry will blink on Varejao, and gift him with a contract exceeding the mid-level exception. It’s only a matter of time, everybody knows that Ilguaskas’ skills are eroding like the noses on Mount Rushmore.
You’d think that as godawful a negotiator this guy is, that at the bare minimum, he would of at least had the foresight to bring in some backup centers and power forwards to try out just for show. Or pass a phony rumor to the beat writers that they were gung-ho for acquiring Reggie Evans, or something like that. Anything to get Varejao’s agent to take heed and notice.
It’s simply astonishing how ill-prepared and ill-suited this guy was for a GM job. It’s the Peter Principle in action.
October 2nd, 2007 at 8:51 am
Alan,
It’s simply astonishing how ill-prepared and ill-suited you are for commenting on the Cavs.
October 2nd, 2007 at 9:11 am
Well, the thing is, Alan, what do you think Andy is worth? He’s clearly a valuable part of the team, and he deserves to be paid accordingly. There’s no need for Ferry to lowball him. I think anything close to the MLE is appropriate for him. I agree, I hope Ferry doesn’t blow past the MLE with Andy, but I actually don’t think he will. Why would he? Nobody else offered Andy anything, so why should Ferry outbid himself? If Ferry does as you predict, Alan, I will be 100% on your side on this one. I guess time will tell. It just seems to me that if you’re going to overpay him, then why let him hold out? If you’re going to give him what he wants, at least do it now so he can get into camp.
October 2nd, 2007 at 10:02 am
Hey, Frank, good one!
JoeHoops, I think Varejao is “worth” not a penny more than the equivalant of the mid-level exception. Actually, I think he’s “worth” less, but I figure if Jason Kapono’s agent can get it from Brian Colangelo, who’s a smart dude that’s the Christ to Ferry’s Antichrist, then I suppose Varejao can get it, too. Given Varejao’s obvious permanent offensive shortcomings and his steadfast refusal to come within five miles of anything that says “York Barbell,” I think Kapono deserves it more than Varejao does. But the plain fact remains that Ferry torched the roster with five years of Ilgauskas. There is no backup. So Varejao, unfortunately, is needed on this sorry roster, and given the lack of alternatives, might as well give it to him.
With that said, Ferry has approximately 27 months of an extremely bad habit of grossly overpaying the hired help, amongst his numerous other bad executive habits. Which is to say that Ferry is like an adult person’s height, he ain’t never gonna grow into this job. It would be easier for this goof to simultaneously kick a cigarette and cocaine habit in a single afternoon. My money says he’s still going to overpay, and will give him about 20% higher than the mid-level exception. Higher than Kapono, less than Gooden.
October 2nd, 2007 at 10:07 am
Whoops. Misspelled Colangelo’s first name and the word “equivalent.” I’m afraid “Frank” might attack me for my stupidity, so I guess I should correct myself. Thanks, Frank!
October 2nd, 2007 at 11:21 am
Seriously, I don’t know how to prove it, but I’m not JoeHoops.
As to your points, that’s all fine and dandy. Is Kapono really worth more than Varejao? I dunno, perhaps. Nobody’s saying Varejao is an elite player or anything like that. But as you said, we are what we are, and we do kinda need Varejao’s presence on this roster.
The one thing that you are absolutely right about is that it’s unfortunate that we’re in this position, and sure, that’s partially Ferry’s fault, but it’s also the market’s fault, too. Who should Ferry have signed? I don’t know. There wasn’t a whole lot out there better than Andy. Bad Market + Bad GM = Team taking 2 steps backwards.
October 2nd, 2007 at 12:13 pm
I don’t understand, how is it in any way “the market’s fault?” There was absolutely no Plan B. Nothing. That’s not the market’s fault.
October 2nd, 2007 at 12:32 pm
Neither AV or Sasha worth more than 5 mil
October 2nd, 2007 at 1:02 pm
I’m asking you. Who should Plan B have been?? There was NOBODY on the market to get. That’s how it was half the market’s fault.
October 2nd, 2007 at 2:47 pm
Having read this entire Blog I’m only sure of one thing. alan t. is an egocentric bore that cannot see the forrest for the trees.
October 2nd, 2007 at 2:56 pm
I haven’t been a fan of what Ferry has been doing since they let him be in charge of the purse. But this is the right thing to do. Having overpaid guys on the team like Snow, Newble, Marshall, D Jones, Hughes and Z, you have to tighten up the money at some point. I don’t want to go over the luxory tax for Andy or Sasha. No one in the league is going to give the Andy 10 or 11 mill. right now. His agent has to no that. I know they are teamates, but I wish LeBron would not say they NEED those guys back, even if we may. I don’t want Ferry to think that he can please LeBron by signing those two role players at starter money. Doe anyone really think that those two guys will ever be more than sparks off the bench?
DON”T DO IT FERRY! THOSE GUYS HAVE NO LEVERAGE!
October 2nd, 2007 at 2:56 pm
I think the idea that the players are working together is funny. The roster now really just needs one more experienced big body, so AV is more needed right now. But there is a good chance of some kinda sign and trade maneuvering right now. Either player and ira newble maybe even discontent damon jones are one the block. The point is that those dudes are not in this together. It seems like one will stay and one will go.
October 2nd, 2007 at 4:02 pm
All of our lives would be a lot simpler right now had we not pandered to LeBron by signing Z and if we would have signed Redd instead of Hughes. None of this BS would matter.
October 2nd, 2007 at 4:16 pm
reckut nala
I’m with you in terms of Hughes, but know that the Cavs COULD NOT sign Redd since Milwaukee had the ability to offer a max and the Cavs did not. So Redd unfortunately was not an option-unless he was willing to take less and he indeed wanted the last dollar. His mistake in the end……..
October 2nd, 2007 at 4:37 pm
Let them walk, anyone remember Ross Verba? He though he was worth 6 mil a year and was willing to wait for it. How’s Detroit treating you Ross? Plenty of teams are either over the luxury tax threshold and looking to cut salary or have more players signed then roster spots. There will be plenty of ‘Plan B’ alternative opportunities shortly.
October 2nd, 2007 at 5:57 pm
From those who say Ferry is stupid….tell me EXACTLY what trade he should have made….and for whom? Please keep the fantasy trades to yourself….practical trades please.
Also if Ferry is dumb….EXACTLY what should he do since the Cavs offered about 5 mil and AV is saying no?
All I’m reading is how dumb Ferry is….with no viable solutions from any detractors…..
October 2nd, 2007 at 6:26 pm
The constant rise in salaries are driven by one force:
Players Agents!
Both players and Agents are now spoiled.
Both Sasha Pavlovic and Anderson Varejao should just sign.
Yes, Varejao and Pavlovic are actually working together behind the scenes are are trying to put pressure on the Cavs by staying at home.
But they should just sign and realize how lucky they are.
This will cost them more than it will cost the Cavs
October 2nd, 2007 at 7:26 pm
“All of our lives would be a lot simpler right now had we not pandered to LeBron by signing Z and if we would have signed Redd instead of Hughes. None of this BS would matter.”
You can not blame Ferry for not signing Redd, he offered the most $ possible, but he was able to resign with Bucks for more $. He went after the FA’s in the correct order: Ray Allen, Redd, Joe Johnson (He offered the most $ he could, Allen and Redd were able to resign with their teams for more $,and Johnson wanted to stay in the South, so chose Atl. over Cle.. That left Hughes. Everyone complains about the Hughes, D. Jones, and Marshall contracts, but without those signings - LeBron would never have signed the extension and then where would the Cavs be?
As has been mentioned before Lebron, Hughes, Jones, Marshall, and Z’s contracts all expire at the same time. They will be able to sign top notch free agents then and resign Lebron. Brilliant
It has been known for months that Ferry was very limited in what he could do until Sasha and Andy’s situations were resolved. I am glad we did not bid against ourselves and give these 2 crazy contracts. If they want to play in the NBA, they have to play for the Cavs, unless we trade their rights. I think they will blink first.
The Cavs will contend this year.
October 2nd, 2007 at 7:55 pm
Randy, I’m not implying we had a choice in that matter. I know the decision was ultimately Redd’s (although if you believe Sports Illustrated, they claim the Cavs informed Redd when he visited that they had decided to go with Hughes instead). But my point is the same. Had Redd signed with us, all of our lives would be a lot better right now. A player like Redd is precisely what this team needs.
October 2nd, 2007 at 8:19 pm
Just hilarious. Two years ago Boatshoes is tossing money around like Dennis Rodman high on Ecstasy in a Vegas strip club. Now, because he has ZERO cap flexibility he’s forced to play hard ball with a couple of decent but overrated role players and bring in a journeyman like devin brown and a 21 year old dude with “wing span” (what is he, a blue heron) just in case Sasha and Varejao decide to sign with the Toronto Argonauts or Maccabi Tel Aviv. You see, Thall, this problem is self induced. And we all saw it coming from miles away. We had no cap room. What did you think we were going to do this summer? He bid against himself for Z, Damon Jones, Marshall, and Hughes. No one else had a max offer on the table for Hughes. And that’s why he’s an idiot.
October 2nd, 2007 at 9:11 pm
i can see the cavs going .500 this year.
October 2nd, 2007 at 11:48 pm
This is just silly … again, I still don’t see what “the market” has to do with it.
Ferry long-term torched the roster with those stupid signings two summer ago, particularly with Ferry “pandering” to nobody else but Ferry. (Does anybody seriously believe that James would have gone nuts if they instead did a sign and trade with Ilgauskas for a quicker guy and draft picks?) Ferry was just taking care of his buddy, and then grossly overpaying him to boot, even gifting him a preposterous 15% trade kicker. As doc notes above, the same holds true with the other free agents from that summer.
O.K., water under the bridge, serious damage done. So they have to work around it. Fine. A huge roadblock, but that’s business. But instead of learning from his mistakes, Ferry continues to be a complete moron - - he is simply pathetic at poker, absolutely atrocious at chess. The local beat writers have created their own cottage industry with their dissemination of bogus planted rumors, either by the players’ agents or by vessels of team GMs. Again, I ask, why did Ferry not bring in guys during the summer to workout just for show, why did he not plant stories that he was hot for specific center/power forward combos that are on other teams?
October 3rd, 2007 at 12:55 am
Danny Ferry is doing the right thing by NOT paying the (2) role players starter money. I’m glad he’s not buckling-in to the pressure of the fans and LeBron.
Cedric Simmons or Darius Rice will fill in for Andy just fine in my view. Hopefully Hughes will play up to his all-star salary this year and provide some three point shooting (after being coached by Mark Price this summer), to offset Pav’s irratic offensive contributions. I expect Hughes and Gibson to step it up this year.
The Cavs can win without Batman and Robin. They will once again make serious waves in the East. Go Cavs!
October 3rd, 2007 at 7:00 am
To Chance: saying the Cavs will be .500 — don’t go to Vegas the Cavs will be a top 3 team in the East again.
Doc: There’s only 1 Tucker, the position has been filled. As far as Ferry “bidding against himself” that makes no sense. The NBA isn’t E-BAY. We didn’t already have those players on our team and offer them more than they were worth before seeing what the market would pay them. And while the free agent signings have been a HUGE bust, how can you blame Ferry? What did the team need: Shooters, Shooters, Shooters, and a scorer to take the pressure off LeBron. Damon Jones, Donyell Marshall are career shooters, and decent ones at that and at the time many people praised the moves as shrewd - especially the Marshall move (many people thought Jones’ career year couldn’t be duplicated). If any one of these guys produced at anywhere NEAR their pre-Cleveland performance, we’d be talking about Ferry the genius GM. I liked the moves at the time, especially considering Hughes was regarded as one of the best perimeter defenders around (at the time) and our most glaring deficiency in 04-05 was perimeter D.
John - I like what you said up to : “LeBron wouldn’t have signed…” Pure speculation. LeBron James has been the most speculated about player in NBA history and I’d say 90% of the speculation has been wrong.
Everyone: CHEER UP. What you don’t realize is that there is no MARKET for our players, so the Cavs aren’t going to have outside pressure to overpay Pavs or Varajeo. Ferry overpaid for players that never came through 3 years ago, and now he’s making smart low-budget moves and banking on the improved play of the youth. Look, the Cavs had the 2nd worst offense in all of basketball last year and made it to the finals. Their defense kept them in EVERY game (even those finals games) and their rebounding, turnover limiting, and obviously 1 exceptional talent put them over the hump to win the majority of games their played. Assuming Varajeo wises up, they should be just as good defensively. D. Brown is an offensive upgrade over Snow/D Jones, Gibson has the potential to be a great compliment to LeBron (as shown in playoffs), and Cedric Simmons is a much more capable banger than Scot Pollard. So we’ll be better than last year. Guaranteed. When we make a move for a Sam-Cassell like A-list pg wanting out of his bad situation, we will be even better.
Stop criticizing Ferry so much. He’s making smart moves right now. I swear none of you guys realize some of the dumb moves these other gms are doing. Gilbert, Ferry, Brown, and LeBron are winning.
October 3rd, 2007 at 7:03 am
Reckut Nala-got it.
Hell yea, Redd was the guy if only we could have gotten him. They overpaid and overbid for Hughes only because they had to-Hughes made out like a bandit due to the circumstances.
Unfortunately (and irregardless of Redd)-in my opinion Hughes is a dud we’ll have to make due with for now. The guy is a career .400 (barely) shooter-so nobody should be surprised. What disappoints me is his lack of interest in going to the hoop and his lack of interest in general-just totally aloof. He’s the example of someone who took the money and ran-and I don’t want to here about injuries.
We’ll figure this out-Hughes was a necessary signing knowing what we knew then.
October 3rd, 2007 at 8:07 am
Well, once again Alan, you refuse to answer my question. You continue to speak in vahue generalities. If you can’t understand that there were no players on the market this year for us to sign, then you’re even less bright than you lead on.
I’ll try asking you one more time, Alan……you love to bring up Ferry’s lack of ‘Plan B’….who should plan b have been? Who should Ferry have signed? You say he should have brought in “some players”….who? Name names. I understand that being in this position is absolutely Ferry’s fault, but like you said, water under the bridge, we need to move on. But all I ever hear you do is complain….I never hear you offer up any solutions.
October 3rd, 2007 at 9:00 am
You all have zero and I mean zero perspective. Two years ago the Cavs had not been to the playoffs in eight years and had a new GM nobody trusted, a new coach nobody trusted, and a new owner nobody trusted. They had exactly one year to get their act together to get LeBron to re-sign and they had $28 million in cap space. So they did what they had to do, they signed lots of free agents. And they had to overpay them to come to Cleveland because Cleveland is a terrible place to be in the winter and the Cavs were a terrible team.
Guess what? It worked. The Cavs are vastly improved, LeBron re-signed and now they have a completely different structure and situation. You cannot compare moves two summers ago to now. Even though I know that is what people like Alan T., who is indeed witty but undermines himself over and over because he’s so shallow and actually thinks he’s deep, think.
Danny Ferry has not been perfect and he’ll continue to make mistakes. But he’s had two draft picks, one of which has been a home run, and the players he brought in helped LeBron get the Cavs to the Finals. These are facts. So before you pontificate any further you ought to take a full look at the situation.
October 3rd, 2007 at 9:22 am
Everyone needs look at what these two players are…Role players!
Sasha & Andy are role players on a team that went to the NBA finals
Due they deserve starter’s money?
Are they truly starters in the NBA?
- Andy, is extremely limited offensively and a poor free throw shooter
- Sasha, is extremely inconsistent.
Ferry is proceeding over a team that finished second in the East and a Free Agent market that truly had NO impact players available (and signable) and limited resources. However, his work done via minor trades is amazing. Ferry has in his tenure traded pretty much end-of-the-bench players for contributing assets for the Cavs (Wilks for Murray trade / Wesley for Simmons trade) and is still holding a $2.1M trade exception while most teams are working to trim rosters and pressed by the Luxury Tax.
Also, Free Agency is not the answer. As Ferry found and other teams yearly succumb, spending big in Free Agency very rarely bares fruit. Look at the Free Agent year that included Redd, Johnson & Hughes which of the teams has benefited?
The 2006 Free Agent market bore no fruit for the teams who spent big money (Mike James, Minn / Ben Wallace, Chi. / Al Harrington, Ind.) Ferry knows this and will not, again, be forced to spend money, JUST to spend money.
Let’s see what the team looks like at the start of the season and after the trade deadline.
He has Gilbert’s money and a few assets in his pocket and shopping for specifics that will mesh nicely with a team that finished second in the East and attended the NBA Finals!
October 3rd, 2007 at 11:34 am
How is the Wesley trade “amazing?” Simmons hasn’t done anything, may never do anything, and who do you think signed Wesley to a free agent contract in the first place? Ferry stepped on dog poop, and then was smart enough to poke the poop out of his boatshoe heel with a stick. This is your idea of “amazing?”
Yet again, I ask: Months ago, why didn’t Ferry plant something with the beat writers saying that he was going to trade for Reggie Evans? Or Steven Hunter? Or whoever? If he did that, then Varejao would already be signed. But instead, his agent now has to save face, and that’s the underlying reason for the holdout.
I mean, doesn’t anybody remember that preposterous story printed by our esteemed blog host? In no uncertain terms, he wrote that Varejao had agreed to a deal with Memphis. If you don’t remember it, then get out a search engine and look it up. Who do you think planted that hot load of steaming crap, J. Edgar Hoover? It was Varejao’s camp.
Yes, Varejao is a “role player,” whatever that means. But given the fact that Ilgauskas is going to be around for three more years, for now they need Varejao on the team, and Varejao’s agent knows it. Ferry is going to end up paying a stupid premium to sign this flopping pansy.
October 3rd, 2007 at 11:55 am
I just found this on yahoo.com:
“Cleveland Cavaliers
Anthony Tolliver C Signed as Free Agent
Sasha Pavlovic GF Signed as Free Agent
Darius Rice F Signed as Free Agent
Dwayne Jones FC Signed as Free Agent
Noel Felix F Signed as Free Agent
Hassan Adams GF Signed as Free Agent
Anderson Varejao FC Signed as Free Agent”
Is this true?
October 3rd, 2007 at 12:01 pm
Tom, you’re not making any sense. doc is absolutely correct. Take Ilgauskas, for example. In the summer of 2005, the sole teams that could have offered Ilgauskas big dollars were the Hawks, the Knicks and the Cavs. The Hawks and the Knicks didn’t want him. So by definition, Ferry was bidding against himself.
With that much cap space at his disposal, in the absence of really good free agents that are willing to come to a burg like Cleveland, a wise general manager remains patient and negotiates solid trades. He doesn’t gorge himself on free agents like Rosie O’Donnell at lunchtime waddling up for sevenths at the Hometown Buffet. So, to quote doc, “And that’s why he’s an idiot.”
October 3rd, 2007 at 12:26 pm
Frank, I just finished reading your post … What??? That “had exactly one year?” In the summer of 2005, Ferry still had THREE MORE YEARS of James. At minimum. Are you telling me that Ferry couldn’t put together a series of powerhouse trades within a three-year span? By all rights, the Cavs should have been the team that plows their way to NBA titles. Now it’s never going to happen, and any Cavs fan who isn’t upset and frustrated by all this just wasn’t around when Ferry ruined the 90s Cavs with his first tour of duty. Ferry is a living breathing Vietnam flashback.
October 3rd, 2007 at 1:49 pm
I’ll save the time of having to use a search engine for that planted story. Many agents may be sleazy, but nobody can reasonably argue they’re not clever.
———————–
Cavs’ Varejao Gets Hefty Contract Offer
Move puts team in danger of paying luxury tax
By Brian Windhorst
Beacon Journal sportswriter
As expected, the Cavaliers may have a difficult decision upcoming with free agent big man Anderson Varejao.
According to an NBA executive, Varejao has been presented with a hefty contract offer in excess of the league’s mid-level exception, which is around $6 million for next season.
Such an offer could be for up to five years and around $40 million or more. Only a handful of teams have cap space to make such an offer, but the one likely after Varejao is the Memphis Grizzlies.
An active player and rebounder, he fits with the up-tempo style of new coach Marc Iavaroni.
Varejao is a restricted free agent, which means the Cavs would have the option to match an offer sheet he could sign with another team.
Offer sheets can’t be signed until July 11 and the Cavs would then have a week to match.
Team sources indicate the Cavs would like to keep Varejao but they are wary of overpaying as they head into the luxury tax next season. Which makes the decision complex, especially with Drew Gooden as the team’s starter.
Varejao is currently out of the country and is preparing to play for Brazil in the FIBA Americas Championship in August.
October 3rd, 2007 at 2:06 pm
What’s your point? It was a lie, and Ferry called his bluff. So what?
October 3rd, 2007 at 2:10 pm
Speaking of human conduits, I’d be doing a disservice if I didn’t also include a sentence from the always rib-tickling funny Bob Finnan - -
“The Grizzlies would pair the 6-foot-10, 240-pound Varejao with 7-foot Pau Gasol in an imposing front line under new coach Marc Iavaroni.”
October 3rd, 2007 at 3:11 pm
What do you mean what’s my point? My point is that Ferry and his minions go about planting stories with the press all the time. My point is this buffoon was so damn sure of himself, that the one time he actually needed to start a rumor, he didn’t.
Pavlovic has no leverage. Contrary to what you read here, Varejao still has it. The closer to the regular season it gets, the more leverage he’s going to have.
October 3rd, 2007 at 3:11 pm
Hahahaha…..now THAT’S comedy, Alan.
October 3rd, 2007 at 3:41 pm
I just saw we signed Hassan Adams to our training camp roster. Anyone think there’s any chance he can make the team and contribute anything at all?
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:21 pm
Comedy? You wait. They can posture all they want, the closer it gets to the regular season, the more Ferry is going to twitch. More than the mid-level exception, but slightly less than Gooden. Count on it.
In a somewhat sadistic kind of way, I’d even like to see Ilgauskas get hurt during a preseason game, and then sit back and watch Ferry’s pasty face sweat like a walrus at SeaWorld. Not because I want Ilgauskas to get hurt, but because Ferry deserves it.
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:24 pm
Based upon what I’ve read about Hassan Adams, apparently he can “contribute” the liquor cabinet he keeps in his car.
October 3rd, 2007 at 5:08 pm
I just heard Larry Hughes accepted Allah as his lord and savior and now goes by the name Mustafah Hussein.
Will that increase his shooting percentage?
October 3rd, 2007 at 5:12 pm
Despite all the complaints about Ferry, he put together a team that got to the NBA Finals. It was clear even last year that the market for restricted free agents was drying up, and Ferry took advantage by signing Drew Gooden to a contract that works for the Cavaliers. The market was weak again this year, and Ferry has patiently waited for Varejao and Pavlovic to realize that millions of dollars aren’t exactly waiting for them out there in the market. They will realize this eventually, or they will take a huge hit in their personal earnings.
Hey, Latrell Sprewell thought he was worth a lot. He’s still unemployed and lost his boat.
The entire NBA is full of overpriced players clogging up the salary cap. The Suns, that beacon of NBA excellence, had to give up two first round draft picks just to get rid of Kurt Thomas and the awful contract they gave him. Chicago is paying Ben Wallace $16 Million, or more than the mid-level exception *more* than Z. Bryan Colangelo was such a good GM that he was able to put a team together that was eliminated by the Nets in the first round, while paying Rasho Nesterovic $7.2 Mil.
Now tell me, who’s worth more, Andy or Rasho Nesterovic?
Look, Danny Ferry has made his fair share of mistakes, but on the whole, he’s done a good job. So has Coach Brown. So have LeBron James and the rest of the roster. They have exceeded everyone’s expectations so far, and I’m certainly not expecting that to change any time soon.
Go Cavs.
Mike C.
October 3rd, 2007 at 7:24 pm
Mike C.-well said brother.
October 3rd, 2007 at 7:56 pm
Mike, be serious. Ironically enough, it was San Antonio that signed Nesterovic to that contract. Then Colangelo was able to get San Antonio to effectively pay Nesterovic’s way to Toronto by getting “cash considerations,” along with being able to unload two of his own contracts. Then next summer, Colangelo has a nice expiring contract to trade. I mean, in two out the past three seasons, his own peers have voted Colangelo the NBA Executive of the Year. How many of those same peers do you thing have ever voted for Ferry? Ten bucks says he’s a private joke in the inner circle of good GMs, like Joe Piscopo used to be with comedians.
October 3rd, 2007 at 9:59 pm
Alan-The comedy post was referring to the quote about the “imposing” front line of Varejao and Gasol. High comedy indeed.
October 3rd, 2007 at 10:45 pm
Oh. In that case, my mistake.
October 3rd, 2007 at 11:36 pm
And one other thing, Mike. Colangelo and the Suns didn’t sign Kurt Thomas to that “awful contract.” The Knicks did. Again, ironically enough, Cleveland had agreed to acquire Thomas and his “awful contract” from the Knicks at the trading deadline. Paul Silas said a deal was in place to trade Gooden and Newble for Thomas, but Paxson got cold feet at the last minute. And eventually, Colangelo was adept enough to unload Quentin Richardson’s huge contract in exchange for Thomas, and then Thomas did a nice job filling in when Stoudemire was out with the knee.
Be that as it may, bottom line is that Ferry is an idiot. And this is completely besides the point, but I laughed out loud when I read doc’s remark about Cedric Simmons’ “wingspan.”
October 4th, 2007 at 9:52 am
Alan, first of all last time I checked what other Cavs GM has gotten the team in the NBA Finals? That’s right None! All the talk of bad contracts and stuff, it is easy to sit back 3 years after the fact and say they are bad contracts, that is the stuff of people who know nothing about the sport. Larry Hughes was coming off a great year, as was Marshall, and Jones was supposed to fill the need of the shooter. Obviously Hughes hasn’t lived up to the deal but not many free agents actually do live up to them. At the time I am sure you were clamoring for the Cavs to sign free agents and for you to sit there now and criticize is stupid and shows how little you know about the Cavs. To overpay for Varejao and Pavlovic would be a mistake and if you would know anything about hoops, Cedric had a terrific freshman and soph years at nc STate. To acquire the number 15 pick from the 06 draft for a player who never plays for us is a low risk high reward trade, but you being the basketball expert does not realize this. You should continue to blog as no one else should care about your opinions cuz you are a pretender, so enjoy watching the Cavs have another terrific year, I know you will hate every minute of it
October 4th, 2007 at 10:03 am
By the way Alan, those free agents last year also helped the Cavs reach the NBA finals, Hughes played very well early on in the Detroit series, in Game 5 at the palace he had 12 in the first half to keep them in reach until Lebron took over. Marshall played well in the NJ series especially in the clincher. And Ferry’s Draft pick of Gibson provided much needed scoring throughout the playoffs. Also for Hughes to play thru his injury and still contribute tells a lot about the man, so knock the team all you want but it was a great year and the free agents from the year contributed to the success.
October 4th, 2007 at 10:10 am
Also Alan those free agents contributed to the NBA finals run they had last year. Hughes played well in the Detroit series, he had 12 in the first half of game 5 which kept them close until Lebron took over. Marshall was huge in the NJ series, especially in the game 6 clincher with all those 3 pointers. Even Damon played some solid D and hit a few shots, are they superstars no but for Hughes to play through his injury and still contribute shows what type of a player he is. Not to mention Ferry’s draft pick of Gibson paying dividends for the team, and with Pavlovic holding out it opens the door for Shannon Brown to take advantage.
October 4th, 2007 at 10:25 am
I’ve read all these posts and concluded that the answer to the question WWAD? (What Would Alan Do?) is that Ferry should have brought in some big men over the summer for “show” and have his “minnions” (WTF - is he Satan or something?) plant fake stories about how the Cavs are actively pursuing other players instead of Sasha or Andy.
And that would have worked because everyone knows that agents like Fegan and Cornstein are easily fooled by such tactics and would have immediately come crawling down to the Q on the hands and knees “OMG - don’t sign Reggie Evans!! We’ll sign, we’ll sign”.
Please. Ferry has offered these guys fair deals. THEY and their agents are the ones that are acting foolishly. The market has changed. Just because ridiculous contracts were thrown around in the past and teams were giving the full mid-level away 2-3 years ago, doesn’t mean they will NOW. Sasha and Andy just need to get over themselves and sign the fair deals presented to them.
In addition, I’d like to challenge Alan T to a bet. If Ferry caves like he predicts, myself and any of Alan’s detractors will give you full props and admit you were right. BUT, if he doesn’t and Andy and Sasha sign for qualifying offers OR less than mid-level you stay off this board for 3 months.
October 4th, 2007 at 11:50 am
Brian, Ferry has had as much to do with the Cavs doing anything as the hair on your own toes. If you bought a house, and a month later your dog dug up an oil well in the backyard, would you then claim that you’re a certifiable genius for buying the house?
Seriously, what executive skills are required to sign a front office contract and have LeBron James as your best employee? If Paxson would have been allowed to remain on board, as dumb as Paxson was, he’d have “led” the Cavaliers to the same position. Ferry has had nothing to do with it.
October 4th, 2007 at 12:58 pm
Hey Alan if a GM doesn’t matter, you would be one by now. Just as I thought, you can’t contradict my facts so you try to throw some bs at it and see if it sticks, just keep writing your little thoughts Alan because I get quite a laugh reading them. Unfortunately when the Cavs win a title you will still suffer from little man disease and not enjoy it. Congrats on your dog finding an oil well by the way, must be why you have all day and night to blog.
October 4th, 2007 at 5:51 pm
“By all rights, the Cavs should have been the team that plows their way to NBA titles. Now it’s never going to happen, and any Cavs fan who isn’t upset and frustrated by all this just wasn’t around when Ferry ruined the 90s Cavs with his first tour of duty.” - Alan T.
I think this says all you need to know about Alan T’s perspective. Because the team hasn’t won a title already Ferry’s a failure in his eyes, and doesn’t believe it’s possible. And the root of it that Alan still hates Ferry for the trade Embry made so long ago.
October 5th, 2007 at 11:08 am
Uh … no, Chuck. I’d be saying the same thing if Paxson made such unbelievably idiotic moves. Or Embry. Or Weltman. Or Stepien. Or Delaney. Or Musselman. Or Fitch. Or Mileti.
But the fact is, it was Ferry. The fact that he is also the exact same symbol of the effective destruction of Magic Johnson’s future “Team of the 90s” is just the exclamation point.
October 8th, 2007 at 9:33 am
Alan — I don’t recall Ferry insisting that the Cavs trade Ron Harper for himself? How is this Ferry’s fault? Blame Gordon Gund and Wayne Embry for that one. Ferry turned out to be exactly the type of NBA player that every other team in the league thought he’d be. The Cavs evaluation was wrong. Again, how is this Ferry’s fault?
I also noticed that you’ve ignored my challenge. You predicted Ferry would cave and sign Andy and Sasha to big deals. I say you’ll be wrong.
October 9th, 2007 at 1:12 am
Huh? First, I didn’t say Ferry will sign the Eurostiff to a big deal. Just Varejao. A little over the mid-level exception really isn’t a “big” deal, per se, but compared to what he’s really worth, I suppose it is.
As far as Ferry’s stiff time with the Cavs, it’s Gund’s fault, it’s Embry’s fault, it’s Ferry’s fault. What’s the difference who traded for him. He destroyed Magic’s Team of the 90s. He’s bad, bad karma. Making Ferry the Cavs GM was the equivalent of making Mike Phipps the Browns GM. Anybody who was around when that latter trade was made understands exactly what I’m talking about.
October 23rd, 2007 at 7:25 pm
[...] Pavlovic and Anderson Varejao, who are holding out for ridiculous amounts of money they’re probably not going to get. Well, we’re starting to see some of that come to fruition. I wondered whose side LeBron [...]
October 24th, 2007 at 9:46 pm
You Cav fans amaze me. Every time Alan makes a credible critisizm of front office bungling ……. you throw the “NBA finals” out like Ferry had anything at all to do with it. BTW to get to the finals in the east is not akin to earning a nobel prize… they made it to the finals by default in a crappy conference and were totaly outplayed by a Spurs team that must have felt like they were playing the JV after getting through the Western Conference. The east is full of mediocre teams and the fact that this team went to the finals does NOT mean that they are a better team than any of the 80’s or 90’s teams ( THAT WERE MUCH BETTER ) that had to get through MJ’s Bulls, PE’s Knicks, or for that matter the Reggie & his Pacer teams. WAKE UP you JV loosers
November 3rd, 2007 at 9:28 pm
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