Devin Brown, Shawn Marion & more
Posted September 28th, 2007 by bwindhorst
–The impending signing of Devin Brown for the Cavs is a solid one for several reasons. First off, Brown can play three positions and over his career he’s defended every position but center. No, he is not great at any of them. He is not a great shooter, great ball handler or super athletic. He is a willing defender and a good character guy, which the Cavs put a high priority on. In addition, he is a good value. He’s coming off a career year with the Hornets — who didn’t need him as much after signing Morris Peterson, Jannero Pargo and getting Peja Stojakovic back — yet the Cavs will not be spending much. From what I understand, he will be making more than the NBA minimum, but less than the Cavs paid David Wesley ($1.75 million) last year. Considering all of that, it is a low-risk signing. In addition, it will give the Cavs depth at the position. It may seem like overkill at the guard spots, but it will give them some additional breathing room there. They may need it.
I know that some fans will contend that Devin Brown is no Mike Bibby and not the impact point guard most feel the Cavs need. I agree with that, but the Bibby deal is gone and Brown is a quality addition. Again, the Cavs are not done working with their roster. They have roster spots open and that is valuable these days. Danny Ferry is still looking to make a major trade, it is very possible the team will look different by midseason.
–Shawn Marion, who has jumped in and demanded a trade from the Phoenix Suns, would potentially be a great fit in Cleveland. He can spread the floor for LeBron James, he plays defense and he’s a strong offensive option. In addition, for years the Suns have liked Drew Gooden and went after him last summer. The Cavs also have devices to reduce the Suns payroll, which is always a priority for owner Robert Sarver and seems to often be more important that the talent in Phoenix deals. Plus the Suns would rather trade Marion east. But stop right there before you get ahead of yourself, it probably will not happen. The reason Marion wants out is because he wants an extension, one would assume a max extension, and the Suns don’t want to talk. Marion’s agent is Dan Fegan, who the Cavs are currently battling with over Anderson Varejao. It would be hard to justify giving Marion a huge extension before you know if he fits but it is also hard to believe the Cavs would put themselves in a position where Fegan could exercise extreme leverage over them. Oh, and one more thing: If Marion isn’t happy playing with Steve Nash, one of the greatest distributors of this era, how could he be happy playing with LeBron? Or, for that matter, his stated wish of playing with Kobe Bryant?
–Which brings us to Varejao and Sasha Pavlovic. With the signing of Devin Brown, Pavlovic’s role on the team may be in flux, especially if he does something like hold out. Varejao appears to he headed toward taking the qualifying offer, which means he’s going to be taking an extreme risk as has been discussed on this board before. Not to mention setting the scene for a potentially stormy season.
September 28th, 2007 at 12:58 pm
As a Hornets Fan, I just wanted to say congrats on landing Devin Brown. He’s versatile and skilled, and his ball handling is underrated. When Bobby Jackson and Chris Paul were hurting, Devin ran the point, and despite being pressured a lot, rarely gave up the ball and initiated the offense appropriately. Considering at that point he’d been with the Hornets only a month, it’s pretty impressive.
September 28th, 2007 at 2:13 pm
If he’s so versatile and skilled, then why did the Hornets kiss him goodbye? If he’s so versatile and skilled, then why did nobody touch this guy until Ferry and his putrid negotiating skills warranted a necessary pawn simply to persuade Pavlovic’s agent to come to the bargaining table?
I mean, the signing is an absolute joke. Brown adds absolutely nothing to this squad. He was signed not as a piece to fill a need, but as a bargaining chip because Ferry is devoid of negotiating skills. Doesn’t Gilbert make that guy to take occasional seminars? Doesn’t Cleveland State offer continuing education courses? I mean, it’s pathetic.
September 28th, 2007 at 2:34 pm
alan t., you’re the joke. Because a free agent is available means he sucks - that’s you’re rationale? By all accounts, Brown is a solid defender with some offensive skill, with good size. There is no reason to think he is a pawn in the negotiation process - Ferry holds all the cards, he doesnt need any more leverage.
Personally, I think Ferry’s negotiations with Pavlovic and Varejao have been fine. Neither deserve the contracts they are holding out for, and neither warrant handcuffing the teams with bad contracts. By sticking to his guns, Ferry has forced them to play for their true market value, or take a risk and play for far below it. Neither gain anything by holding out or playing in Europe.
September 28th, 2007 at 2:40 pm
Alan, you simply can’t have it both ways. You can’t crack Ferry for signing guys to bad contracts in the past and then crack him now for playing hardball with these guys. It just shows that all you want to do is rip him, which is why you have no credibility. What exactly could Ferry do with Pavlovic and Varejao that would make you happy? The answer is nothing, because you’re going to rip him either way. So why should any of us ever listen to you about anything?
September 28th, 2007 at 3:35 pm
I would not want Shawn Marion. His style does not fit with the Cavs slow, methodical, lock-down defense. He’s a cherry picker like Barbosa.
September 28th, 2007 at 4:45 pm
I agree with Chuck on this one. The Cavs need depth and that is what Brown provides. Sasha and Varejao would be signed by now if they were actually looking for reasonable contracts. Have you actually heard how much these guys are looking for? Way more than what would be a reasonable amount, there is nothing that Ferry could have done about that. However, he holds all the cards right now.
September 28th, 2007 at 8:36 pm
Congrats Cav fans, Devin is a quality pickup both on and off the court. Even though I am glad we were able to pick up Michael Finley, the year Devin left. I really miss the D he gave our Spurs, especially in the playoffs. He is way underrated, I think he will be great for your team. Great addition!!
September 28th, 2007 at 8:53 pm
Other than the unavoidable max contract extension he would come with, Marion is pretty much perfect for the Cavs. You’re right, Tom, the way Marion plays the passing lanes is a big part of his defense, but I wouldn’t blow him off as a cherry picker. He’s also an excellent shot blocker for his size, and a multiple All-Defensive player. I hate his jump shot, but it does seem to go down. And he’d be a great compliment as a finisher to Lebron - I almost just got chills thinking about those to out on a break. He stays healthy, too.
I’m nervous about giving anyone who hasn’t been THE MAN on a team max money, but it might almost be worth it to get Marion. The true superstars are almost impossible to get in their prime without drafting them, and Marion is just a notch below. At some point, you have to decide whether you are just going to go for it.
September 28th, 2007 at 9:07 pm
If he can make mid-range jump shots, catch the ball in traffic and finish at the rim Marion would be perfect for LeBron and the Cavs.
September 28th, 2007 at 11:36 pm
I hate that dopey phrase. “Provides depth.” So does a swimming pool. There’s a reason he’s joining his fifth team. Six if you include two separate stints with San Antonio.
A “career year?” Well, yeah. Everybody was hurt, they had to play the guy. Technically, I suppose Jeff Cook had some career years with the Cavs, too. Give anybody enough minutes, they’ll have a stats “career year.” Brown does not fill any Cavaliers need, with the bare exception of Ferry’s need for leverage because he can’t negotiate worth a lick.
He’s “a good character guy?” As opposed to what, a pot-smoking wife-beater? Seems to me that Ferry once ruined the 90s Cavs as the result of Gund forcing Embry to give away a purported “bad character guy.” I’d prefer to see a pot-smoking wife-beater who can torch a playoff opponent than a “good character guy” who makes his living travelin’ from town to town.
But on the bright side, nobody in the local media has chimed in with a load of “they’ve gotten younger and more athletic.” Yet.
September 29th, 2007 at 12:12 am
Chuck, precisely who do the Cavs have that anybody wants that makes Marion money? You’ve got to give something to get something.
September 29th, 2007 at 10:54 am
Marion wants a max contract…forget it. I agree with Tom above. Marion wouldn’t do anything in King Brown’s pathetic offense.
September 29th, 2007 at 4:25 pm
ALAN, T YOU SPEAK WITH MUCH WISDOM I AM ON YOUR SIDE. KEEP THE COMMENTS COMING
September 29th, 2007 at 4:26 pm
ALAN T U R THE MAN
September 30th, 2007 at 1:48 am
You could make a statistical case that Brown had a better year last year than Hughes and Pavlovic. So signing him for just above the min is a pretty shrewd move given the $ Hughes is making and Pavs wants. Also, it will be nice to have a guard that shoots around 75-80% from the FT line.
There’s a lot to like about Sasha and he’s 23 so I’d like to see the Cavs get him back. If he can learn to make decisions more quickly and stop turning the ball over so much he can be a nice player on this Cavs team.
There are lots of reasons I don’t want Marion. He is a good player, but his numbers are inflated because of the Phoenix system much like Hughes’ numbers were in the Washington system. Marion’s game is great when someone is putting him in position to score. There is not enough movement in the Cavs offense for a player like Marion to succeed. He’s mostly a garbage player that likes chaos. Which is exactly what the Cavs try to avoid on Offense. He’s not a good fit, he’s not worth max money on any team, and he would not be the top dog in Cleveland which is why he wants out of Phoenix now. Glad it won’t happen.
September 30th, 2007 at 2:55 am
2 very good moves in a row with Ferry now picking up Simmons for Wesley. If he can get AV to sign and Pavs too (not as great a priority, although still important), it will be a decent but not great off-season. If he can find a point guard upgrade before season’s end, it will be an excellent year for the front office.
So, there’s plenty of room to improve, but the last 48 hours have been terrific.
September 30th, 2007 at 8:55 am
I’m not sure you can say it’s been an excellent year for the front office, even assuming Pavlovic and Varejao sign. Simmons might not play much more than Pollard did and Devin Brown might make a decent fourth guard. Not exactly high impact pickups.
As things stand the Cavs main needs–a ballhandler, a shooter, a defensive presence at center–have been completely ignored, though I agree with those who believe Gibson, Hughes and LeBron can handle the playmaking. Gibson can shoot too, but they still need another guy who can do that consistently.
Maybe Ferry thinks Simmons will bloom this year, giving the GM some wiggle room to make an impact trade involving Varejao or Gooden. I’d trade Pavlovic too, if what we hear about his contract demands is accurate. He’s always been a little flaky as a player anyway.
The more I think of Marion the more I agree with Tom. Ideally, Marion plays the same position as LeBron and he probably wants out of Phoenix partly because he’s sick of playing power forward. His situation could make for some interesting sign-and-trade, three-way deals, however, if Ferry can pull himself out of that new Lazy-Boy he’s installed over in Independence.
September 30th, 2007 at 3:10 pm
no one seems to have noticed that pavlovic at present is taking an unprecedented route by indicating that he doesn’t even intend to sign a qualifying offer. this is like threatening to hold one’s breath until they turn blue; the cavs would still retain pavlovic’s rights, and should he be traded, the next team might not offer him anything more than the league minimum. given that level of apparent petulance, it is well within reason that ferry would pick up a player capable to taking a good share of the minutes that would otherwise go to pavlovic yet NOT be a threat to impede the development of gibson and possible development of a healthy shannon brown OR any other player the cavs might still acquire via a major trade.
speaking of petulance, i can only assume that reverend and LEBRON are secondary ID’s for alan t. who appears to be a complete idiot.
i regret that david wesley didn’t work out. for some reason, cleveland is the place where veteran combo guards’ careers come to die. ferry deserves some credit making a little lemonade there by getting some raw talent who probably should have stayed in school - simmons is still only 21 - and with some decent coaching to develop some sort of offensive game, could turn into the starting defensive presence i think we need at PF. i only regret we couldn’t get him sooner so we could have sent him to pete newell’s camp for big men over the summer.
given that we’re basically a clone of the spurs in terms of philosophy and approach, i note that other than drafting duncan, the spurs really didn’t make a whole lot of blockbuster moves to build their roster except to do their homework on non american players and make astute FA signings by going after players that fit the team philosophy and building continuity. it’s not sexy, but it’s hard to argue with the results - they’ve managed to keep a great player who could have probably made a lot more in endorsements if he’d gone anywhere else as a FA.
i have nothing other than gut feeling, but i don’t think marion would be such a great fit - unless this allows us to post lebron down in the block more.
September 30th, 2007 at 4:08 pm
“A complete idiot,” Barry? Ferry acquired two guys that are going to be buried on the bench. Simmons will average five minutes a game, if that, Brown will average 20 minutes a game, if that. Nobody will suffer except Pavlovic, if he’s still on the team, and Snow. Simmons will only be on the court during mop-up time. Both of these guys will likely be one season and out. So who cares?
The bottom line is Ferry has addressed nothing. All those preposterous contracts from two summers ago are coming back to tweak the screws on his La-Z-Boy. But let’s be honest here, so long as the fans keep filling up the arena and so long as Gilbert can keep plundering Cleveland’s tax coffers, they don’t have to do anything. They could go 35-47, make the playoffs, and so long as the put 20,562 in the arena during the regular season, and then get some layoff revenue on top of it, who in the organization really cares how good or how bad they are? Hardcore fans might care, but that’s about it.
By the way, how did James do on “Saturday Night Live?” I didn’t watch it.
September 30th, 2007 at 4:09 pm
Did I type “layoff revenue” instead of “playoff revenue?” Interesting Freudian slip.
September 30th, 2007 at 4:58 pm
Well, technically I suppose Simmons will average more than five minutes a game … I was also taking all of the forthcoming “DNP - Coach’s Decision” games into account.
Hey, what’s the deal with Notre Dame? 0-5? Austin Carr must be spinning in his grave.
September 30th, 2007 at 5:28 pm
Let’s see…
First of all, Alan, it would have to be a package deal of some kind, totalling within a couple million of Marion’s salary. Even if there was no sign and trade (remember, we have two unsigned players we could use in a deal, too), the Cavs could send Gooden and a couple contracts that run out of the next couple years. Phoenix would be able to dump Marion, get a power forward they like and save a little money when a contract runs out. Think Gooden, Newble, Jones, & Brown - they would probably renounce Newble immediately. The Suns save 1.5 million right off the bat this year, even more if it drops them below the luxury tax they are right on the edge of. I figure the Suns could get more, but honestly, teams get less in deals for stars than I think they should all the time - look at what if took to get Ray Allen, Allen Iverson, Zach Randolph, etc. The point is you can make the numbers work with contracts that benefit the Suns.
Second, 20 minutes a game is not “buried of the bench” to me. It’s almost half a game. And if you are saying he’s taking minutes away from Snow and Pavlovic, those are immediate backups off the bench - important minutes indeed. Just not starter’s minutes. But you’ve basically said depth is worthless, so I see how that’s insignificant to you.
It seems like Ferry decided if he couldn’t add a proven starting point guard, the team would go with Hughes or Gibson at point. Both had success last year. Brown strikes me as someone who can score with enough defensive skills to stay out on the floor on a Mike Brown team.
The report I’ve seen says Varejao wants 10 million a year. I am really, really happy we haven’t given him a 5 year, $50 million contract, aren’t you? I can’t blame Ferry for being far, far away from that number.
September 30th, 2007 at 6:44 pm
Chuck, Brown isn’t an “upgrade” over Pavlovic. Jeez, this past NBA season, this blog’s very own author was raving about Pavlovic as the Second Coming, even voting for him as the NBA’s Most Improved Player! I thought that vote was absolutely ridiculous, but come on, Chuck. Brown is on his sixth squad in six years. He’s not “depth.”
And yes, Chuck, I’m happy that Varejao isn’t getting a 5 year, $50 million contract. But at this point, does it really matter? When Ferry locked in Ilgauskas and Hughes, and to a lesser extent Marshall, the irreversible damage was done. Although, if Varejao did this more often, I’d give him whatever his agent wants, and then some:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9178175747911458710&q=varejao&total=177&start=0&num=100&so=0&type=search&plindex=1
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4411449010799015517&q=damon+jones++face&total=2&start=0&num=100&so=0&type=search&plindex=0
September 30th, 2007 at 9:29 pm
No one is saying he’s an upgrade over Pavlovic.
However, the Cavaliers will have a lot of cap space after next year when some of their less desirable contracts expire. You can’t sabotage your chance to sign some big pieces THEN by pushing the panic button now and signing Pavlovic and Varajeo for way more than they are worth. Pavlovic has some nice skills but he definitely has not proven himself to be consistent. Also, he plays better when LeBron is not on the court - red flag.
September 30th, 2007 at 9:30 pm
If Pavlovic tells Ferry to stuff it, he can still be a rich man with a great job an awful lot closer to home. I don’t understand why playing in Europe is seen as some kind of ridiculous threat.
September 30th, 2007 at 10:28 pm
Tom, there is a zero percent chance that Ferry will sign any good free agents, cap space or not. Guys with talent aren’t going to come to Cleveland voluntarily. On the other hand, if you said that it will leave some breathing room for trades in return for guys who may or may not have talent, but have larger contracts, then you’d have something. They’ll have to come via trade, and then pout about not wanting to come to Cleveland. But who cares if they do? Much like Pavlovic, they’d be contractually stuck. Let ‘em pout.
larry, I think the reason it’s seen as a ridiculous threat is because guys come from Europe to play in the major leagues, not the other way around. This guy is not going to fly home with his tailfeathers between his legs.
An exception to the NBA is the place to play rule would be a guy like Fran Vasquez, who could make more in Spain than he could with an NBA rookie contract, plus not be buried on an NBA chair.
Maybe they’ll be able to pawn Pavlovic for a mid to low first-round pick. Just like old times.
October 1st, 2007 at 12:16 am
This has nothing to do with Pavlovic and nothing to do with Ferry being a moron, but can somebody please explain this? I stumbled across this video when I got those two videos of Varejao being dirty and clumsy. Why is Avery Johnson brazenly assaulting poor Josh Howard’s package? This is just bizarre.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9172293762466946895&q=avery+johnson+cup&total=1&start=0&num=100&so=0&type=search&plindex=0
October 5th, 2007 at 11:06 am
hey man
look were simmons came from the hornets. bs plays a lot of head games.bs said one time that cs had no rebounds for a whole quarter. hey man its herb in byrons body,ceds at the top of the key setting picks for cp3.he needs supermans speed to get position for a rebound.look? back injury ps,elbow dw,screw in foot cp3,tc ?,.bobby j is allright.remember the gift is inside waiting to come out——–cavs
October 23rd, 2007 at 2:38 pm
I think they should get shawn marion could it would help out lebron james more cause he need somebody that can run the floor