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	<title>Comments on: Stephon Marbury doesn&#8217;t like LeBron</title>
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	<link>http://www.ohiomm.com/blogs/cavs/2007/07/21/stephon-marbury-doesnt-like-lebron/</link>
	<description>George Thomas on the Cavs</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:37:11 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: cnnikecity</title>
		<link>http://www.ohiomm.com/blogs/cavs/2007/07/21/stephon-marbury-doesnt-like-lebron/#comment-63244</link>
		<dc:creator>cnnikecity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 15:59:42 +0000</pubDate>
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We supply brand shoes (air max, jordan,shox, af1, bape, dunk, gu_cci, pra_da, pu_ma, timber_land, etc), bags, jeans, hoodies, shirts.<br />
website:  <a href="http://www.sneakersupplier.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.sneakersupplier.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: aaaa</title>
		<link>http://www.ohiomm.com/blogs/cavs/2007/07/21/stephon-marbury-doesnt-like-lebron/#comment-56035</link>
		<dc:creator>aaaa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Mar 2008 00:54:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ohiomm.com/blogs/cavs/2007/07/21/stephon-marbury-doesnt-like-lebron/#comment-56035</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href="http://www.66773388.com" rel="nofollow"&gt;Gucci shoes&lt;/a&gt; &lt;a href="http://www.66773388.com" rel="nofollow"&gt;adidas shoes&lt;/a&gt; &lt;a href="http://www.66773388.com" rel="nofollow"&gt;nike shoes&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.66773388.com" rel="nofollow">Gucci shoes</a> <a href="http://www.66773388.com" rel="nofollow">adidas shoes</a> <a href="http://www.66773388.com" rel="nofollow">nike shoes</a></p>
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		<title>By: Hid Conversion Kits</title>
		<link>http://www.ohiomm.com/blogs/cavs/2007/07/21/stephon-marbury-doesnt-like-lebron/#comment-39446</link>
		<dc:creator>Hid Conversion Kits</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Dec 2007 05:24:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ohiomm.com/blogs/cavs/2007/07/21/stephon-marbury-doesnt-like-lebron/#comment-39446</guid>
		<description>Lebron is  soo amazing so I wish y'all would stop hatin on the brother on em like dat.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lebron is  soo amazing so I wish y&#8217;all would stop hatin on the brother on em like dat.</p>
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		<title>By: Web Hosting Reviews, Web Site Hosting</title>
		<link>http://www.ohiomm.com/blogs/cavs/2007/07/21/stephon-marbury-doesnt-like-lebron/#comment-13259</link>
		<dc:creator>Web Hosting Reviews, Web Site Hosting</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Oct 2007 01:32:33 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Web Hosting Reviews, Web Site Hosting...&lt;/strong&gt;

I couldn't understand some parts of this article, but it sounds interesting...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Web Hosting Reviews, Web Site Hosting&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>I couldn&#8217;t understand some parts of this article, but it sounds interesting&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Nike SB</title>
		<link>http://www.ohiomm.com/blogs/cavs/2007/07/21/stephon-marbury-doesnt-like-lebron/#comment-12404</link>
		<dc:creator>Nike SB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Sep 2007 23:01:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ohiomm.com/blogs/cavs/2007/07/21/stephon-marbury-doesnt-like-lebron/#comment-12404</guid>
		<description>I agree with the opinions of stephon marbury, lebron is easy to hate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with the opinions of stephon marbury, lebron is easy to hate.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephon Marbury doesn’t like LeBron : Celebrity News Corner</title>
		<link>http://www.ohiomm.com/blogs/cavs/2007/07/21/stephon-marbury-doesnt-like-lebron/#comment-11838</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephon Marbury doesn’t like LeBron : Celebrity News Corner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Sep 2007 23:47:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ohiomm.com/blogs/cavs/2007/07/21/stephon-marbury-doesnt-like-lebron/#comment-11838</guid>
		<description>[...] King wrote an interesting post today onHere&#8217;s a quick excerptStephon Marbury watched LeBron James host the ESPYs last weekend and apparently was amused. While guest hosting a blog for the New York Post on Friday, Marbury ripped James several different ways, seeming to call him both a bad person &#8230; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] King wrote an interesting post today onHere&#8217;s a quick excerptStephon Marbury watched LeBron James host the ESPYs last weekend and apparently was amused. While guest hosting a blog for the New York Post on Friday, Marbury ripped James several different ways, seeming to call him both a bad person &#8230; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: alan t.</title>
		<link>http://www.ohiomm.com/blogs/cavs/2007/07/21/stephon-marbury-doesnt-like-lebron/#comment-5484</link>
		<dc:creator>alan t.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2007 16:41:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ohiomm.com/blogs/cavs/2007/07/21/stephon-marbury-doesnt-like-lebron/#comment-5484</guid>
		<description>I don't know...it's all fun and games to talk about, but without James, this is the same quality roster as the Ilgauskas-led 17-65 team.  I figure by game 35, there would be some much bad karma and dissension in the locker room, that Hughes and Jones would have a knife fight in the shower.  I really don't know how anybody can argue differently without giggling.  And this despite the fact that Drew Gooden is Scottie Pippen with a Hitler mustache on the back of his cantaloupe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know&#8230;it&#8217;s all fun and games to talk about, but without James, this is the same quality roster as the Ilgauskas-led 17-65 team.  I figure by game 35, there would be some much bad karma and dissension in the locker room, that Hughes and Jones would have a knife fight in the shower.  I really don&#8217;t know how anybody can argue differently without giggling.  And this despite the fact that Drew Gooden is Scottie Pippen with a Hitler mustache on the back of his cantaloupe.</p>
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		<title>By: Corporate Whore</title>
		<link>http://www.ohiomm.com/blogs/cavs/2007/07/21/stephon-marbury-doesnt-like-lebron/#comment-5476</link>
		<dc:creator>Corporate Whore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2007 15:23:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ohiomm.com/blogs/cavs/2007/07/21/stephon-marbury-doesnt-like-lebron/#comment-5476</guid>
		<description>Kevin Andress, nice post.  To be honest, after I posted my 30-52 record comment, I thought it was too negative.  Your breakdown is well done.  I will admit, at times, I think too little of the "help".  My post was reactionary.  A great catch of BasketballReference.com's stat.  I, unfortunately, can't get there at work, but am very interested at seeing how they derive at that stat.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kevin Andress, nice post.  To be honest, after I posted my 30-52 record comment, I thought it was too negative.  Your breakdown is well done.  I will admit, at times, I think too little of the &#8220;help&#8221;.  My post was reactionary.  A great catch of BasketballReference.com&#8217;s stat.  I, unfortunately, can&#8217;t get there at work, but am very interested at seeing how they derive at that stat.</p>
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		<title>By: Corporate Whore</title>
		<link>http://www.ohiomm.com/blogs/cavs/2007/07/21/stephon-marbury-doesnt-like-lebron/#comment-5473</link>
		<dc:creator>Corporate Whore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2007 13:55:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ohiomm.com/blogs/cavs/2007/07/21/stephon-marbury-doesnt-like-lebron/#comment-5473</guid>
		<description>LOL...Josh calm down.  I am betting, all your money, that if we were to ask NBA historians and people who know the game MUCH more than you or me, if Scottie Pippen is just a "slightly more athletic Drew Gooden", they would disagree by about a 100% to 0% margin.  Credibility for Josh's opinions on player talent equals zero.  But to top that off, you're wrong about the Cavaliers record without James.  6-1 was the last two years, maybe?  I believe it's 9-3.  Still pretty good, but anyone going with that as "proof" that the Cavaliers are a good team without James is fooling themselves.  That record is over a span of 4 years, so that's 3 games a year that the Cavaliers play without James.  Let's use last year as just one example.  I think they were 3-1 without him.  First, the opponent has gameplanned for James...surprise he doesn't play, so a HUGE chunk of their gameplanning is out the window.  Secondly and MUCH more importantly, the teams they beat?  They sucked.  Bottom line is this.  If you REALLY think that the Cavaliers are a good team without James, you're smoking some f'ed up shyt. 

Scottie Pippen is just a more athletic Drew Gooden?  LOL...This tells me that you never really saw Scottie Pippen play basketball.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LOL&#8230;Josh calm down.  I am betting, all your money, that if we were to ask NBA historians and people who know the game MUCH more than you or me, if Scottie Pippen is just a &#8220;slightly more athletic Drew Gooden&#8221;, they would disagree by about a 100% to 0% margin.  Credibility for Josh&#8217;s opinions on player talent equals zero.  But to top that off, you&#8217;re wrong about the Cavaliers record without James.  6-1 was the last two years, maybe?  I believe it&#8217;s 9-3.  Still pretty good, but anyone going with that as &#8220;proof&#8221; that the Cavaliers are a good team without James is fooling themselves.  That record is over a span of 4 years, so that&#8217;s 3 games a year that the Cavaliers play without James.  Let&#8217;s use last year as just one example.  I think they were 3-1 without him.  First, the opponent has gameplanned for James&#8230;surprise he doesn&#8217;t play, so a HUGE chunk of their gameplanning is out the window.  Secondly and MUCH more importantly, the teams they beat?  They sucked.  Bottom line is this.  If you REALLY think that the Cavaliers are a good team without James, you&#8217;re smoking some f&#8217;ed up shyt. </p>
<p>Scottie Pippen is just a more athletic Drew Gooden?  LOL&#8230;This tells me that you never really saw Scottie Pippen play basketball.</p>
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		<title>By: kevin andress</title>
		<link>http://www.ohiomm.com/blogs/cavs/2007/07/21/stephon-marbury-doesnt-like-lebron/#comment-5472</link>
		<dc:creator>kevin andress</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2007 13:37:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ohiomm.com/blogs/cavs/2007/07/21/stephon-marbury-doesnt-like-lebron/#comment-5472</guid>
		<description>Alert: Many stats forthcoming. If you dislike stats, skip this post.

If I understand the argument, Alan et. al. are arguing that the current Cavs -- essentially those teams from the last two years -- are a very poor team without LBJ. Alan labels them a bad lottery team, and Corporate Whore labels them a 30-win team. Alan furthers that the team has built its exceptional non-LBJ record the last two years (6-1) by piling on against patsies who were playing on the road and without rest.

There is some truth to what he says. These are the teams against which LeBron has sat in the last two years: Knicks, Boston (twice), Atlanta, Golden State Philadelphia, Sacramento. Of those seven teams, only one (Golden State this year) was against an above-.500 team. Collectively, those teams won .376 of their games, or 31 games over a full season.

The Cavs did also play more (4) of those seven games at home than on the road, although it was hardly a huge differential. 

And Alan is right and wrong about the amount of rest those teams had: Two of those opponents had two days off, two had one day off, and three played on no rest. However, the Cavs were actually "less" rested than their opponents, having played the same three games on no rest while having no games with two or more days rest.

So, how many games should a "deep lottery" team have won against that competition? I tried to project this, figuring each team's home or road record in the season in which they played the Cavs (without LBJ), and by calculating how an average team (.500) should have done against the same record. 

The results? An average (41-41) team should have gone about 4.6-2.4 against that array of teams. As you know, the Cavs actually won six of seven, so they did better than an average team would have been expected to do. (Seven games is a very limited sample, so that could reasonably be attributed to luck.)

Remember, though, Alan and Corporate Whore aren't suggesting this team -- sans LBJ -- is average. They are saying that it is well below average. It is reasonable to suggest that a Corporate Whore-quality team (30-52) would have won one less game than an average team (against these seven teams in the same locales), and a "deep lottery" team might have won a half-game less than that. It's still a small sample, but chalking up 2.5 or three wins in a seven-game span to luck -- while possible -- isn't likely.

A couple other points: 

The Cavs didn't just win those games this year, they crushed their opponents. In four LBJ-less games this year, the Cavs outscored their opponents by a total of 57 points. Their lone loss was by a deuce. In the two years with this approximate cast of players, Cleveland has outscored its opponents by an average of nearly 10 points a game. The point differentials suggest they should have won six-plus of those games. In short, the Cavs really weren't lucky to win those six games.

Lastly, LBJ is a wonderful player, arguably the best in the league. Basketball-Reference.com's method of calculating his value places his contribution at 10-11 wins over .500 over the course of the season. That's huge -- the most of any NBA player -- but it isn't the 20-30 wins that people on this board are attributing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alert: Many stats forthcoming. If you dislike stats, skip this post.</p>
<p>If I understand the argument, Alan et. al. are arguing that the current Cavs &#8212; essentially those teams from the last two years &#8212; are a very poor team without LBJ. Alan labels them a bad lottery team, and Corporate Whore labels them a 30-win team. Alan furthers that the team has built its exceptional non-LBJ record the last two years (6-1) by piling on against patsies who were playing on the road and without rest.</p>
<p>There is some truth to what he says. These are the teams against which LeBron has sat in the last two years: Knicks, Boston (twice), Atlanta, Golden State Philadelphia, Sacramento. Of those seven teams, only one (Golden State this year) was against an above-.500 team. Collectively, those teams won .376 of their games, or 31 games over a full season.</p>
<p>The Cavs did also play more (4) of those seven games at home than on the road, although it was hardly a huge differential. </p>
<p>And Alan is right and wrong about the amount of rest those teams had: Two of those opponents had two days off, two had one day off, and three played on no rest. However, the Cavs were actually &#8220;less&#8221; rested than their opponents, having played the same three games on no rest while having no games with two or more days rest.</p>
<p>So, how many games should a &#8220;deep lottery&#8221; team have won against that competition? I tried to project this, figuring each team&#8217;s home or road record in the season in which they played the Cavs (without LBJ), and by calculating how an average team (.500) should have done against the same record. </p>
<p>The results? An average (41-41) team should have gone about 4.6-2.4 against that array of teams. As you know, the Cavs actually won six of seven, so they did better than an average team would have been expected to do. (Seven games is a very limited sample, so that could reasonably be attributed to luck.)</p>
<p>Remember, though, Alan and Corporate Whore aren&#8217;t suggesting this team &#8212; sans LBJ &#8212; is average. They are saying that it is well below average. It is reasonable to suggest that a Corporate Whore-quality team (30-52) would have won one less game than an average team (against these seven teams in the same locales), and a &#8220;deep lottery&#8221; team might have won a half-game less than that. It&#8217;s still a small sample, but chalking up 2.5 or three wins in a seven-game span to luck &#8212; while possible &#8212; isn&#8217;t likely.</p>
<p>A couple other points: </p>
<p>The Cavs didn&#8217;t just win those games this year, they crushed their opponents. In four LBJ-less games this year, the Cavs outscored their opponents by a total of 57 points. Their lone loss was by a deuce. In the two years with this approximate cast of players, Cleveland has outscored its opponents by an average of nearly 10 points a game. The point differentials suggest they should have won six-plus of those games. In short, the Cavs really weren&#8217;t lucky to win those six games.</p>
<p>Lastly, LBJ is a wonderful player, arguably the best in the league. Basketball-Reference.com&#8217;s method of calculating his value places his contribution at 10-11 wins over .500 over the course of the season. That&#8217;s huge &#8212; the most of any NBA player &#8212; but it isn&#8217;t the 20-30 wins that people on this board are attributing.</p>
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