–To start with, the Mike Bibby deal looks to be totally off. While I was confident last week because the talks were ongoing, with the Kings signing Mikki Moore, they likely are no longer interested in Drew Gooden. There are all sorts of rumors flying around the league as to why the deal did not get done last week when it was on the table. I’m not going to relate them here, but let’s just say some are weird and wild. The Cavs really liked Luis Scola, who they could’ve acquired from the Spurs if they were willing to take Jackie Butler after the Bibby talks stopped. They were not, so they didn’t get that deal done either. Scola is an excellent pick-and-roll player and a good passer. He should excel in Houston, Rick Adelman’s offense needs good passing big men (Chris Webber, Vlade Divac, etc.).
–The Cavs believe the best way for the team to improve is through a trade, not the free agent market. Which is why they have been on the sidelines. Some trades come off in a hurry, some take time. The Cavs have been discussions with many teams. They do not have to make the trade today or even at the start of the season. Because they are so close, what is important is the trade works. Not how fast it is done. That may not be popular truth, but it is reality.
–Much of what happens in summer league can be thrown out, especially the stats. They are a basis to make some judgments, but more importantly Vegas sort of gives an update on where players are. Last year, for example, Sasha Pavlovic played and was pretty much terrible. Obviously, it wasn’t the end for him. That said, Shannon Brown was not especially impressive. He wasn’t bad, he did some good things, but there were not signs that he was about to take a big step. He handled the ball a lot and made some nice passes, but he is not a point guard. He did not shoot well from the outside and overall did not execute at a high percentage went going to the basket. He did show some amazing athleticism, which is his best attribute. Based on the way the Cavs currently are put together, I find it hard to believe he will be able to play ahead of Pavlovic, Eric Snow or Daniel Gibson. He is a better defender than Damon Jones, but his shooting issues will make it challenging for him to get major minutes. Several coaches/scouts told me they were underwhelmed by him. So that’s the report, it isn’t the final one, just the latest.
–Meanwhile, Gibson picked right back up where left off at the end of the season. He missed two games with injury, but for the most part he shot well and let the game come to him. He continues to work on the little floater in the lane, which has the potential to be a nice weapon. The Cavs front office is more convinced than ever that he could be a special player.
–Based on what I saw, the Cavs coaches told me and other scouts and coaches said, there didn’t appear to be any other players on the Cavs summer team who are serious candidates to make the team.
–Right now, the Cavs are considering opening the regular season with Larry Hughes at point guard. They are exploring other options to be sure, but in the short term it may very well be the best option if the roster stays intact. Please consider the following:
Here are numbers from the 24 games Hughes started at point guard in the regular season:
Record: 17-7
PPG: 99.6
FG pct.: .464
APG: 23.4
In those games, Hughes averaged 15.4 points and 4.1 assists.
Numbers when someone else started:
Record: 33-25
PPG: 95.6
FG pct.: .440
APG: 19.8
He may not be the total answer there, but I often think many fans overlook his value because everyone thinks about his contract first. He does not produce at a near-max deal level, that is a reality. He should not be shooting so many jumpers. But he is a quality player and was a big part of many Cavs wins over the last two years.
–The word going around the NBA is that the Spurs are ready to sign defensive wing Ime Udoka, who had a good year in Portland last year. But right now the Spurs are over the luxury-tax threshold and want to get under it to make the deal. The Cavs have David Wesley (cap number $1.8 million, real money owed $250,000) and a $2.2 million trade exception. There may be a deal to be made there, remember the Cavs like third-string point guard Beno Udrih. The Cavs could trade either for Udrih, if the Spurs can part with him for nothing in return, which isn’t certain. Although, they just gave away Scola and Butler for no players in return.
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JoeHoops–I mean “TuckTuckSuckSuck”–I’m not sure what “insight” the Genius has brought to this blog. But bully for you for finding treasure in the trash.
I’m also not sure why you keep dragging me into your dislike of Alan Tucker. And what do you mean by his “dystopian vision?” Are you suggesting that Tucker envisions a society plagued by disease? What the hell does that have to do with anything? He envisions a Cavaliers basketball team plagued by overpaid, under-performing players. That’s not “dystopian.” Borrow the Genius’s dictionary–he’s obviously not using it–and you’ll see what I mean. (Don’t bother looking up “futal,” though. You won’t find it in there.)
Now, as for your suggestion that Pluto should include a “Talkin’ Proctology” section in his next column, I’m all for it; especially when you consider that he usually talks straight from his ass, anyway.
Anyone who needs to give him/her/itself a title of “Genius” obviously, well, isnt one. Greatness doesnt need a microphone.
As for your assessment of my take on the roster, what does Mike Brown’s offensive philosophy have to do with what we’re discussing, namely offseason trades and roster management? Are you some sort of egotistical windbag who speaks just to hear yourself? Maybe if you werent too busy pretending to be an English teacher, you could find a few minutes to discuss basketball, which is the point here. Pluto’s Hair nailed you, by the way.
This roster is indeed only a piece or 2 away. The young players will improve (Varejao, Pavlovic, Gibson, Brown), and even guys like Gooden and Hughes should be better next year (Hughes certainly cant do much worse, shooting-wise). Improvement from within is not just an organizational smokescreen. It happens, all the time. How often have guys with little or no track record come out of nowhere to push a team over the top? Golden State’s Monta Ellis was “that guy” last year. The year before? Leandro Barbosa of Phoenix.
One more thing, artist formerly known as “the genius”: The outside shooting, as I stated above, will come from Gibson and Pavlovic (who will be much improved next season). This will be year 3 of this roster playing together, and they will be even better. Be patient, Cleveland. We’re almost there.
I had absolutely no idea what a dystopian vision is until I read the cerebral musings here and I had to look it up. I suppose Ferry’s Cavs are kinda dystopian, I guess. And wow, referring to doc as an a-hole. Gosh, that was brilliant, brilliant stuff. It’s as if Luis Scola gave up on his NBA dream and became a poet.
http://hem.passagen.se/replikant/dystopia_definition.htm
Will BW please explain to the local populace why Ferry is not making a beeline for Steve Francis? It is incomprehensible that he’s not. And did anybody read Terry Pluto’s sports column about the wonders of all races being equal? In the sports section this column found a home! Why didn’t he just save himself the time and type out the lyrics to Sly & the Family Stone’s “Everyday People.”
Funny, I just posted about Steve Francis, and I just read that the Rockets already signed him. For only two years and $3 million a year, far less than Ferry’s free agent deals, and for less years and less money than just about everybody on the present Cavs roster. Unreal. Ferry’s gross incompetence is just baffling.
omg, alan t. Is that yoo tucker?. your ingeenuss. i new it was yoo. your the king. alan tucker rules. quit callin pluto the revarand people it not right
Long time reader, first time commenter. This comments section should be renamed to “who can post the most paragraphs”. My god you folks are serious. Enjoy!
Don’t cry for Francis. This deal is very expensive for the Rockets. I don´t want this ex-player in my team..
Francis is a funny case. He has the reputation for being a ball hogging, me-first complainer yet signs with a team that’s got McGrady and Yao. He’ll be a third option at best which I’m sure he realizes. He’s also taken a secondary role in the past, when he probably could have been scoring 23 pts. a game. I wonder if his teammates and coaches have complained about him, or is it just the press?
He’s probably more talented than any Cavs option that’s been bandied about this offseason and I wonder if he’s healthy and whether the Cavs ever spoke with him.
Exactly…did Ferry ever, at least once, call Francis’ agent? The guy has a home in Houston, it makes sense that would be a player’s first choice, like Sabathia eventually. But if literally no effort was made, then it’s inexcusable.
And come on, Wayne. Expensive for the Rockets? How? Ferry gave away free agent contracts for four and five years at amounts multiple times what Francis is getting paid. You’ve read how Hughes sulks. You’ve read how Damon Jones sulks. Francis will have absolutely no pressure on him to perform, there is no risk whatsoever. They’ve invested nothing in him, and the potential reward is great.
With the Rockets now having five point guards, it’s going to be comically ironic that Ferry is finally going to pick up a phone to see who’s available. If the Beno Bonanza doesn’t come to fruition, perhaps Ferry will participate in the Rafer Alston and John Lucas Sweepstakes.
Last week Steve Kerr, Ferry’s “good friend,” was giving away stuff, and Ferry was nowhere to be found. Last night Steve Francis was signed, and again Ferry was nowhere to be found. Now today, did anybody else notice that Ferry’s “good friend” Steve Kerr was again giving away stuff, and again Ferry is nowhere to be found? What’s going on here?
Josh, i have little idea what you are attacking me for. I agree with your assessments wholeheartedly. Where in heaven’s name did you get that i disagree with your statements? Please re-read, dear boy…
Mr. “Hair,” perhaps you could delight us with some more of your psychic powers, as you only gave us a small display in your determining that my “site” pun, was not, in fact, a pun! How do you do it? Perhaps we should start calling you “Terry Pluto’s Hair – Mind Freak?”
I also noticed you fail to describe for all what “cracking a dictionary” was? We wait with bated breath!
As for my calling many of you on here “non-serious” basketball fans, funny, that hardly seems like much of an “attack!” But perhaps you are all a bit sensitive?
As for my joke about “doc” and his mis-use ellipses, well, first of all, “doc” attacked me UNPROVOKED. So I responded in kind with a mild rebuke that someone who calls themselves “doc” should know a little better. I still fail to see how that was so out of line. But clearly it broke some sort of code with you “shrinking violets.”
You, of course, are also quite mistaken about my “dozens” of errors in my previous posts, if for no other reason that a shut-in baboon like yourself would have gleefully cataloged them by now. As you may have guessed, i will not deign to address you anymore, so please spare us anymore of your bile.
Mr. Tucker, you seem to have failed to read my post where i pointed out that Mr. Francis’ injury record the last few seasons has not been particularly good. Yet, you seem to think Ferry should have gone after him, while simultaneously lambasting Ferry for signing an injury prone Hughes? Whatever are you talking about?
When i referred to many of you as “non-serious” fans earlier it’s because of posts like that. If you knew anything at all about Francis you would’ve known that the ONLY two places he would’ve considered were L.A. or Houston. L.A. because his best friend Mobley plays for the Clippers and Houston because he has a home there. Despite what some of you may think, those sorts of things do matter to some FA. Especially FA’s who made their “big money” and are looking for other things such as comfort levels, etc. Really what is the point of talking about such things? You are certainly free to do so, but it’s sheer nonsense.
The Genius has…spoken!
( Oh and lighten up about the “Genius” tag, ladies. It’s just poking a little fun at the “take everything so seriously sports fans.” Is that so hard to “get.” Sheesh! Does anyone here not remember Geoff Sindelar?? )
All the people on here calling for Steve Francis and blasting Ferry for not getting him are the same morons who would be blasting Ferry and whining about Francis’ lack of production had we gotten him. As Genius in a bottle said, he wasnt coming here no matter how many calls Ferry placed to his agent. So why bother?
I note with interest that the same 2005 link that Doc gave us (”Hoopshype”) which labeled Hughes’ signing as a mistake also advocated signing Ilgauskas and Marshall.
I’m not ripping on Doc with this observation. Still, if Hoopshype is reputable, then Ferry is culpable for the Hughes signing, but would have been lauded at the time for the signings of Ilgauskas and Marshall.
Larry, I get it that Ferry is paid to be smarter than us, so he deserves balme if his moves backfire. It seems to me he has been. His moves may prove to be a mistake next year, but in the two years since he signed those players, the Cavs have won 100 games, they’ve won 4 of 6 playoff series, and they’ve advanced to the NBA Finals. I’m not picking on Alan when I say this, but even he picked Detroit to win the EC Finals, so it’s safe to say that the Cavs outperformed his expectations.
Prior to the signings, many of the naysayers on this forum were insisting that LBJ was destined to become a Garnett wannabe, that he might never win a playoff in Cleveland (if the Cavs ever qualified for them), but I haven’t heard that comparison in quite awhile. So it seems to me that the increased level of our expectations is a pretty strong endorsement that this team is better than people expected it to be.
We could ALL learn something from the devastatingly effective, non-vitriolic post of Mr. Andress. Rarely has such reason been presented so effectively and, perhaps most importantly, so briefly on this message board/blog!
Bravo, Mr. Andress. Your post should serve as a beacon to all Cavs fans!
The Genius has…spoken!
Uhh…Genius. The Rockets are committed to Steve Francis for around $6 million, assuming Francis exercises his second year option. Assuming Hughes gets his $2 million bonus each year, the Cavs committed to Hughes for about $70 million.
So, let’s review. $6 million. $70 million. Which is greater? You’re a genius, so you tell me. By the way, what’s with that signature? And has
JoeHoops again taken on another Batman-like identity? Oh, the questions.
And Kevin, really, a guy shouldn’t get kudos for perfect timing, should he? Let’s be honest, in your role of general manager, I think *you* could have “led” the Cavs to the NBA Finals in the worst conference in professional sports history. I mean, if I buy a house, and suddenly my house’s gutters leak onto my vinyl siding and create an image of Jesus, despite the millions of worshippers kneeling in front of my house, that doesn’t make my crummy house a house of worship, and it doesn’t make me God. I just happened to be at the right place at the right time. By the way, it will cost you $10 if you want to see Jesus. $20 if you want to touch him. There may be a processing fee, I have nothing to do with that, it’s Ticketmaster’s deal.
alan t., funny you talk about taking on batman-like identities, when you yourself have gone to the ever so clever abbreviation of alan T, though I really think it should have been Alan f to better symbolize the true meaning of your last name. i also find it amusing how you try to read into a comment stating that I was calling doc an a**hole and stating how brilliant it was. i’m sorry i can’t match your wit in calling LeBron the “Sperminator” or commenting on ferry’s “boatshoes.” yes, you certainly are a cut above alan f. i can’t believe though that you actually admit you didn’t know something…i thought with your ever so intelligent and vitriolic comments you would of course know what dystopian meant. TPH you honestly think tucker has a hopeful vision for anything in life? the cavs make the finals and all he can talk about is how much they suck. oh yes, but there was the matter of his comatose imaginary friend, who either died or woke up simultaneously with the cavs being swept. isn’t it just incredible, a miracle actually, that 200,000 people out of the US population of 302,395,884 go into a coma (that’s 0.066%), and one of them happens to be tucker’s friend, right during the finals? simply tragic…that alan f. couldn’t come up with a better excuse.
A clever abbreviation, JoeHoops? Over a year of cookies and temp files slowed down my computer to a crawl, so I had to reset everything. As you know with your billion aliases, these blog things include cookies with the names, and my other cookie with my name was no longer there. So I had to fill in a new one where it asks for your name. Frankly, if you want to know the truth, it’s a tribute to larry d. I like that small letter and initial thing, so I said what the hell, and decided to adopt the same style for myself. Like you when you dot your ‘i’ with a valentine when you piss in the snow. The posts are still obviously mine, and the last time I looked at my driver’s license, my first name is still Alan, and my last name still begins with T.
And I love the coma stat. If I took that shi*t personally, I’d find you and rip you apart like you were Bitch of the Month at Bad Newz Kennels.
Mr. Tucker,
How does it matter one iota what Francis is paid versus what Hughes is paid if they are both injury-prone? That was the point of my comparison. It appears you failed to grasp that.
Might i add that you have a propensity for not mentioning salient points that rip holes in your “theories.” For example, mine that Francis was NEVER coming here no matter what Ferry did or said. Does that FACT not register with you, sir? Or are you merely on some futile quixotic “mission” to convince the world that you, and only you, see the truth about Ferry and the Cavs.
Andress undresses you with facts and figures. Your response, sir, is found wanting. Surely even you must recognize when you’ve been bested?
The Genius has…spoken!
p.s. – You also spit out this brilliant bit, “a guy shouldn’t get kudos for perfect timing.” Really? So that famous and accurate saying of “timing is everything” is completely wrong, eh? By goodness, are there any other long-held truisms you would care to “myth bust,” Great One? Oh, and spare us the tough guy bravado like the kind you leaked out of the end of your last post, hmm? It’s not very becoming…
First off, I’ve never seen so much criticism for a team that made the NBA Finals last season. It seems people in this city are NEVER satisfied no matter what their teams do. Simply put, the Cavs made the Finals so let’s give them (and management) some credit already.
It’s always easy to second-guess signings and decisions in hindsight, but I do think there’s a reason why Ferry is the GM and not anyone leaving comments in this blog. If the fans were left in charge of a professional sports team it would be a disaster. Hughes has disappointed me, just like Jones and Marshall, but they also won games for the Cavs as well.
Trading for Bibby would be a huge mistake just because he’s on the downside of his career. There’s moaning about Z and his contract and how he’s past his prime, well it’s the same for Bibby. Yet a lot of people want him here.
Personally, I’m happy for the Cavs and proud of what they accomplished. I love watching LeBron play and really think they’ll be all right, no matter what the naysayers think. I think Ferry is doing a decent job as GM, not great, not bad, but decent. I think Brown has down a good job as coach given it’s his first major coaching job.
You can’t argue with two 50 win seasons, winning 4 out of 6 playoff series, and making it to the Finals in the second season running the team.
Kevin, I can’t say the Cavs surpassed my expectations, if I were to go back in time to the point when Ferry was first hired. I knew they had LeBron James and 30 million to spend so a trip to the finals within a few years was certainly what I thought should happen.
If you look at Ferry’s individual signings that summer, every one of them has been at least slightly disappointing. And it will get worse these next two years. The Cavs may have surpassed expectations this season, but that’s because expectations were lowered once it became clear that the veteran additions Ferry made were so limited.
I think Coach Brown should get more credit than he’s given. He’s seen as a minus by the fans and press (or at best as a work in progress), but he has juggled a lot of very average talent pretty well.
Genius, 99.9% of the folks that BW brings up in his rumor mill are never coming to Cleveland. Was Ray Allen doing anything but pumping up his price? But a good general manager at least takes a moment to find out. It does not appear that he did, or else we’d be reading about it here. If Francis played even 60 games, then $3 million of a portion of a midlevel exception is a drop in the bucket and worth it compared to the excess of $15 million that Hughes steals on an annual basis. And 60 games of Steve Francis is better than one game of Beno Udrih.
And Dave, that criticism is borne out of fans’ major frustration. Imagine what the Cavs would be like if that $30 million of cap space had been spent wisely. Remember around 1988, when Earvin Johnson referred to the Cavs as the future Team of the 90s? This was before Gund forced Embry into destroying that opportunity. I don’t think it’s a reach to say if Ferry hadn’t repeatedly stepped on a rake like Sideshow Bob in that Simpsons episode, these Cavs would be that team. And now watching as other teams make cogent moves while the Cavs again do nothing, well, it’s pretty damn frustrating.
@Shannon’s outside game
You do realize that Shannon Brown shot 46.7% from the field as a senior and 39% from 3 point range. So when you say he does have an outside shot, Im sure you don’t follow basketball as well as you might think you do.
There are two types of basketball fans. Those that are starved for entertainment, and those that appreciate fundamental basketball. The former tune in to WITNESS highlight reel dunks, and the ladder focus on the strategies of the game. The thrill seekers evaluate a team according to how many highlights make the cut on ESPN. The purists evaluate a team according to their ability to keep an opponent from making the highlight reels. Defense is the name of the game. How many special All-Star type plays did J-Kidd, Carter and company lay on the Cavs? How may players were able to “go off” or get into “the zone” on the Cavs defense throughout the year? Team defense demoralizes an opponent moreso than a offensive explosion. Respect in the NBA starts and ends on the defensive side of the ball. The Cavs have earned that respect from the rest of the league. It is time Cavs fans learned to respect this as well. Our offense will improve as our defense becomes our staple. Learn to watch the GAME and not the SHOW! Go Cavs.
Shorter Alan T.:
“Why doesn’t Ferry waste time pursuing FA’s he knows won’t come? That’s what really good GM’s do!”
Ye gods…
As for “Columbus Cav,” shooting 40% from 3-point distance is considered above avg., I’d say. In fact, that percentage would’ve have put Brown right in the Top 50 in the NCAA this year. Besides, I know I said he had a mid-range game that almost no other Cav guard has. That point is undeniable.
DBO and larry d., fair points about Brown and the defense.
The Genius has…spoken!
Huh? Francis accepted for around 55% of the midlevel exception. Ferry could have offered Francis the midlevel exception, and with a little cap maneuvering, even more than the midlevel exception. Who says a guy won’t come? 999 times out of 1,000, money talks. The only reason Francis went to Houston is because he already got his money in a major way. But it sure as hell doesn’t hurt to inquire. I mean, we already know what Francis can do. If Luis Scola turns out to be even 10% of Mark Olberding, I’ll be shocked.
What about this…
Seattle sends L Ridnour to Cleveland for I Newble, D Wesley & a 2009 1st round pick?
I love that the “genius” dropped an “it’s” (i.e., it is) where there should have been an “its” (possessive of it) in his attempt to belittle someone else’s grammar skills. Nice take, genius. “Your” really smart.
I love that the genius used the contraction “it’s” in place of the possessive pronoun “its” in his post ripping someone else’s grammar skills. Nice take, genius (intentionally lower case). “Your” really smart.
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