So, maybe things won’t change in Game 2
Posted June 11th, 2007 by Brian Windhorst
San Antonio — This was a whipping, nothing else. I’ve seen them before in the AT&T Center and I’ll see them again probably. Not only are the Spurs the better-looking team after the 103-92 Game 2 win, they are playing at a very high level. If they continue to play like this, I don’t think it will matter what the Cavs do in all honestly. We can talk about adjustments and intensity and coaching all night. That said, it, too, is just a single game. Obviously the Spurs look like the dominant team, but I am compelled by my realist nature and perspective-based style to say the series is not over.
So it goes…
–I am inclined to totally disregard the LeBron James foul trouble in the first quarter. While it is questionable whether Mike Brown left him out too long, I think he played the percentages in thinking long-term about the game. The Cavs lost six points on the scoreboard with James on the bench for nine minutes. I don’t care what anyone says, that is an acceptable number under these circumstances. When the Cavs got buried by 14 points in the second quarter, James was out there the whole time and Tony Parker was on the bench a bunch.
–I have no idea how to judge these fourth quarters. On one hand, I think the Spurs are totally letting down. On the other, the small lineup presents some challenges for San Antonio. Brown may have to consider going with the small lineup more and I explain why in this piece for ESPN.com. It means more than just giving more time to Daniel Gibson, but some steps need to be taken by the coach.
–Gibson, by the way, just continues to impress me. With all this other stuff going on, this kid showing he could very well be a star in this league.
–Parker, Tim Duncan and Manu Ginobili are all playing great. They all scored more than 20 points just four times before tonight this season. Even for these great players, this was an exceptional night. Sure the Cavs were off their game, but the Spurs played above their normal level, too. And their normal level is world class. Again, another reason to see what happens in Cleveland.
–Zydrunas Ilgauskas, of whom I am a steadfast defender, has been awful in San Antonio. He’s not doing anything well. He can’t make a jumper, he can’t make a tip in, he barely gets any rebounds, Duncan is making a mockery of him. Duncan does this to most everyone, but Ilgauskas has the ability to get some back at the other end and he’s not doing it and it’s killing the Cavs. By the way, it was Z getting out of position twice that caused LeBron to commit those fouls in the first quarter.
–Larry Hughes says his foot is feeling better. I believe him. But he’s playing worse. Something has to be done there. If he’s going to go 1-of-10 shooting, you might as well give his time to Eric Snow.
–Why are the Spurs moving faster than the Cavs, getting to more rebounds, diving for more loose balls, and generally showing more passion for the game? I know the Cavs realize these are the Finals, but they aren’t playing like it. You can see the difference late when the Cavs intensity to come back shows up. Considering it is the last round, why this cannot be achieved from the start is beyond my personal comprehension.
June 11th, 2007 at 2:07 am
Bottom line is that the Spurs are better, they are playing like it, and they want it a lot more. I can understand the first two, but like you, BW, the last one is unfathomable. Some of these Cavs, maybe all of them, may never make it to the Finals again, despite their talents. There are just no guarantees. You have to make the most of what you have in front of you, and they are just not putting forth the effort. They may have been happy to be there in game 1, but they looked like they would be happier to just end the series in 2 tonight, until that final flourish.
On a good note: the 3-pt shooters are starting to hit some shots. And at least we know that Gibson has no nerves when it comes to playoff basketball. He’s a keeper. Larry looked better tonight (just being able to move around) but gave the team nothing regardless. Is there any sight worse than Tony Parker running full speed as Hughes (or Pavlovic or Gibson….) backpedals? LeBron was more aggressive, but still made forced passes and a bunch of turnovers. No one looked good for 3 quarters, including the coaching staff.
I am hoping they turn it around for game 3, but this doesn’t feel like the Eastern Conference Finals, and the Cavs are playing like they just don’t care as much as the Spurs. Why? I wasn’t expecting a series victory, but I thought the team would at least play hard.
June 11th, 2007 at 6:04 am
Good news about Newble today!
Why is he even answering contract questions during the finals?
Shouldn’t he be sending that money to Darfur?
Have any of the Cavs veteran players scored in double figures yet?
June 11th, 2007 at 6:05 am
I forgot one more question:
Is Larry Hughes still mad at us?
June 11th, 2007 at 6:12 am
More good news;
That third quarter typical letedown wasn’t so bad tonight!
Besides that, nothing really positive from this game.
LBJ sits in Q1 watches, possibly analyzes the game, only to come back and brick 3 or 4 consecutive 20 footers — umm you are rested and see the need for aggressiveness use your brain LB!
Mike only uses his best lineup in Q4 when the game was essentially over, lets use that early Q1 if the Spurs are totally destroying our starters.
Z is somewhere else. Even during the introductions he just slogs through hardly high-fiving his teammates. Someone needs to buy him a redbull.
Donnie looks aweful - that fake shot drive and drive to the rim in Q3 looked like he is a JCC league scrimmage player.
The fans did not impress me in SA, I think Cleveland is going to rock in game 3 which is worth some points — maybe we can keep it close. Good luck all!!!
June 11th, 2007 at 6:18 am
i absolutely disagree with brian about brown’s decision to take lebron out in the first. first of all, how many fouls did lebron get in the game? that’s right—-3. one more than he had when he was taken out of the game. the guy isn’t exactly a foul machine. secondly, lebron needed to find his groove as early as possible against the spurs. he certainly didn’t find it in game one. by the time he came around the game was too far gone. just think what could have happened had lebron been able to play with the fouls and get into the flow of the game earlier. maybe a 29 point lead is only a 19 point lead and the cavs comeback ties the game instead of bringing it to an 8 point deficit. you can’t afford to play for the end of the game when you are getting beaten at both ends of the floor by a more disciplined team. the time is now. and lebron needs to play early with two and even three fouls.
and not only did brown panic and take lebron out too early, he had no idea how to substitute. he needed a leader in there a.s.a.p. to calm things down but he wasted even more valuable time by taking too long to put snow in there. the inmates have been running the asylum too much in these games. especially when it’s obvious that without someone on the floor to smack him around pavlovic turns into a moron. when brown finally gets a floor general out there he spends the entire quarter tinkering with the line-up with no results. maybe it’s just me, but with snow out there i don’t want another offensive black hole there too. varajao has to sit in that situation.
and when is potato going to realize that gibson needs to play every minute he can. the guy is money.
June 11th, 2007 at 7:08 am
Benching Lebron in the first quarter was indefensible. It was bush league. It was yet another display of our coach being completely out of his league. Brown coaching in the NBA Finals is the equivalent of BW showing up at the ABJ awards banquet with Jessica Alba on his plump arm. Another mindless, by-the-book decision that maybe you would expect a high school coach to do. I suppose there’s some rule in the original 1967 version of “Coaching Basketball for Beginners”, by Jack Ramsay, that you HAVE to remove Player A when Player A accumulates 2 fouls early in basketball competition. But the entire quarter????? Did he think he was coaching Greg Oden all of a sudden??
But it runs deeper than Brown unfortunately. I wish the solution was as simple as firing the head coach. The Cavs are completely outclassed. This Spurs team is sick. Ginobili and Parker can basically do whatever they want and Duncan is scoring at will against an inexplicably disinterested Z. The Cavs have the look of a team just happy to be there. And please let’s not get excited about these “fourth quarter runs”. Please. You don’t think David Stern and the ABC executives aren’t in the San Antonio locker room after the third quarter pleading for Popovich to call off the dogs? Well, they are, I saw them.
June 11th, 2007 at 7:09 am
BUY Z A REDBULL, LOL, Donyell need to get cut over the summer, eat the contract and move on he is a total waste, i still think they could trade larry. Shannon brown will be good for us next year, package drew and sasha, there will be some takers, resign andy, and get another shooter and pf and we will be back, I like Z he is sucking now, but next year he will be a rich bench player for me.
June 11th, 2007 at 7:11 am
Doc, hey Doc, im disappointed in you with this conspiricy theory stuff, grow up do, this is not jimmy hoffa, and the teamsters, it do not work like that.
June 11th, 2007 at 8:14 am
Windhorst’s assessment of using the small line-up to challenge the spurs scars me. Good thing brown is the coach and goes with that unit for a few minutes.we can’t stop the spurs now and the idea of damon jones on ginobili,gibsob being schooled by parken and marshall getting outrebounded by horry or oberto for extra spurs possesion is NOT how to get back in this series despite what the 4th quarter stats says (come on did the spurs let down or what). We cant outscore these guys, they’re too good adjusting defensively-ask any nonwhining phoenix fan.we need to play better DEFENSIVELY to keep it close ‘going into the 4th quarter’!then we have a chance to get a win or two or three.
June 11th, 2007 at 8:36 am
Donyell Marshall, Damona Jones, Larry Hughes. This is the triumvirate that our intrepid Boatshoe-clad GM has provided. And don’t say “oh but he drafted Daniel Gibson!” Give me a break. Second round draft picks that pan out are pure luck. If he thought so highly of him he would have drafted Gibson in the 1st round. If you never have a second round pick work out, it’s not going to tarnish your reputation the least bit as a GM. In this era, the job of the GM is to astutely manage the salary cap, and make prudent free agent signings. Boatshoes has done neither. We can’t even think about calling Rashard Lewis’ agent this summer. We’re stuck with with all three stiffs until their contracts run out. O but maybe Sasha will learn how to make a layup. Maybe Z will transform his jiggly, simmering manicotti arms into slabs of muscle. Maybe Eric Snow will retire. Maybe Bongyell will grown man boobs and be forced to sign with the Houston Comets. Maybe Reverend Pluto will steal Damona’s jersey and give it to Dru Joyce for next year. Maybe Lawrence Hughes will wear fishnets instead of arm pantyhose. Maybe….
June 11th, 2007 at 8:39 am
This series is over in 5. What a disappointment. Z belongs in the
WNBA and Hughes is overpaid by 13
million. Wait till next year! Can’t
wait to see the fat cats wasting their
money down at the Q this week. Another
Cleveland disaster.
June 11th, 2007 at 9:08 am
I don’t think this series is over yet; remember how Detroit made Cleveland look so bad last year in the first two games? I think we still win 2 games of this series.
June 11th, 2007 at 9:43 am
The Cavs don’t stand a chance at winning the Championship, however they will be handed 1, possibly 2 wins. I say handed because the SPurs have dominated this series as the better team of players. Game 2 was a scrimmage game until Pop decided to put in the B-team with a 27 point lead. You know this is true because the Cavs haven’t been able to do anything against the Spurs A-team. The Spurs will graciously allow the Cavs to save some face and diginity at home. Not to mention the millions of dollars in advertisng and revinew that would be lost if the Spurs sweep the series , like we know they can. So enjoy the next 3 games because the Spurs will be bringing home the championship game to their fans in game six. It’s all about the money because it’s obvious and evident that the Spurs can sweep, if they want to.
June 11th, 2007 at 10:09 am
Did anyone else notice in the 4th quarter, the Cavs cut it to 8, Donyell Marshall got the rebound on Spurs next possession with the Cavs running it out…Lebron broke free down the left side of the court and ANY other player would have ooped it up to him at any cost but wonderful Donyell just sat on the ball. Wasted trip and Ginobli got the 4 point play right after. Not saying the Cavs would have won but that oop could have gotten the Cavs more energized.
And great comment Doc on calling out Ferry. I recall all the excitement from a few years ago when we had all the salary cap room to sign anyone we wanted. Well, just cuz the room was there, it didn’t mean he had to go sign every third rate 3 point specialist that was available. Ah, what could have been if the money was spent wisely instead of just spent. I am very glad the Cavs are in the finals but it just shows how much more they have to do to win the finals, starting with the front office.
As for Gibson, he chose the Cavs more than the Cavs chose him - according to the story, Gibson didn’t work out for any other team and he nor his dad (also his agent) would return their phone calls. He will be a free agent after next season and lets hope they resign him and not pull a Boozer fiasco. Man, ‘Bron, Boobie and Boozer - that trio would have been nice.
June 11th, 2007 at 10:09 am
Ummm…maybe the Cavs just aren’t that good. They’re all standing around waiting for LeBron to do something instead of playing basketball. Face it, it’s over, give them a pizza party and look forward to playing for it all again next year. Without LeBron, Cleveland would be another Indiana Pacers fiasco, with LeBron you’re only as good as the team defending him is, and the Spurs are handing you your collective ass. Sweeeeeeeppppppppp!!!
June 11th, 2007 at 10:28 am
Whiners expect a championship team to be built in 2 years. I’d like some of those drugs. I want a ring, but expecting one this fast is foolish. Even if the Cavs are ushered out quickly, this is good experience for key players like LeBron (to know what it’s like to be in the Finals). They won’t have that excuse the next time. The 2nd year coach will learn, and you better get used to him, because he’s not going anywhere. And the 2nd year GM will understand better what pieces are needed. He had to use his stash of cash a few years ago to convince LeBron to resigh, and at the time Hughes and Jones were not seen as bad signings. Just wish Hughes had been injured earlier in the season this year. Marshall was a risk then that hasn’t panned out except in NJ game 6.
The team has played well in the playoffs until they ran into a championship-level team. Why is this so surprising? Disappointing, sure, but worth the whining? I thought they would play harder, but any wins in this round are a bonus considering the vast disparity between the teams. People wanting more is fine, and maybe the Cavs will play better the next few games, but expecting any more this soon is crazy.
Gibson is a restricted free agent a year from now. He can’t go anywhere without the Cavs having the ability to match.
June 11th, 2007 at 11:10 am
If Larry Hughes is even allowed to suit up and sit on the bench for game 3 I will never EVER watch another CAVS game until MIKE BROWN is FIRED. That is a promise from a die hard cavs fans watching our coach throw away a shot at the championship.
June 11th, 2007 at 11:11 am
Brown runs the risk of being the most-despised head coach in Cleveland since Bill Belichick. No offense and a stubborn refusal to play the best players (well, we only have TWO). Name any Cleveland starter, other than LBJ, who would start for most NBA teams. Zilch. Name any bench player, other than Boobie and Andy, who would generate trade interest. Zilch. Name another NBA team who would take Brown as head coach today. Zilch. (Although, if you know of one, please call him immediately.)
June 11th, 2007 at 11:37 am
Cavalier Failure
Starts at the top. The GMS have messed up the roster over the few years they been in charge but lets not cry over spilled milk.
I am beyond frustrated with the coaching staff of the cavaliers. Particularly on the offensive end.
Mike Brown has not much of a bench to look down at. The same old slugs (jones, snow, marshall, newble)
But how many bad basketball decissions and plays does Pavlovich get away with and still get to start? How many more times does Larry Hughes have to get embarrassed and get the ball thrown directly between his two legs to prove he can’t move his feet at this point in time? How ineffective and awful does Z have to be before he gets benched? How many threes and steals does Gibson have to get before he gets more minutes?
These questions pose fairly simple and obvious answers but I tend to look the other way on these issues because the main focus for the Cavs is of course LeBron. As he goes, so does Cleveland.
This brings me to my main point and objection with Mike Brown and his assistants. The offensive sets and tactics used by the Cavs all revolve around LBJ, except for a couple post ups for Z, and they run the same old damn high screen and roll, over and over again. Unsuccessfully every single time. Unbelievably painful to watch as a Lebron Fan.
It seems every single time down in any half court set its Lebron with the ball waiting for the high screen to be set. It is all screen and roll with the ball in LBJ’s hand. No deviation. Same result nearly every time, IMMEDIATE DOUBLE TEAM on LBJ far from the hoop. He is forced to give it up, making difficult cross court passes over the often taller defender (duncan).
Why do they keep running the same high screen and roll for Lebron when all it does is take the ball out of his hands. Isnt he the guy who you want to be catching and finishing. He is unstoppable one on one or with an open lane to the hoop. Similar to jordan in that way. He is the best finisher and drive and kick player in the league.
I loved watch MJ and with the NBA finals maratho on classic ive been watching alot of film that is fresh in my mind. One thing about Phil Jackson and Jordan is that they never and i mean never, ran screen and roll with the ball in Jordan’s hands. The key to the Chitown offense was spacing the floor so jordan could go one on one and attack with some room to operate. Then he would kick out after drawing a double team in a position closer to the hoop. Jordan was the king of the post up for a reason. It was an easy way to get one on one matchups closer to the hoop then catching the ball near half court. They would never run screen and roll for jordan because it would only create an immediate double team on Jordan.
Mike Brown’s offense of high screen and rolls for Lebron is pathetic to watch. It is by far the number one play the Cavs have run so far. it could not be more clear that the Spurs double team Lebron hard immediately forcing him to make difficult passes far away from the hoop on every single screen and roll. It is one thing having bowen on him but Mike Brown is just inviting Duncan to trap him outside the three point line by running the high screen and roll with his bigs and LBJ. His coaching strategy, if you wish to call it that, is repetive and ineffective on the offensive end. I’d like to see much more lebron in the post, off curls and cuts, and most of all, iso’d, spread everyone out. Let the King do what he does best, dribble drive and create and of course dunk.
June 11th, 2007 at 11:55 am
In 2 years, Brown was able to create a team that can play defense, even if we haven’t seen it enough the last few games. He hasn’t been able to create a team that has been offensively creative and consistent. Part of it is because of the roster, part of it is his fault. He’s going to get plenty more time to try. Expecting him to create a defensive force and an offensive juggernaut in 2 years with this roster is downright ludicrous. Could the offense be better? Yes, a lot better. But could both the offense and the defense be at championship level after 2 years with this roster with any coach? People are kidding themslves.
Brown may end up setting the defensive foundation and someone else may swoop in for the finish, and if that happens, fine. But it’s not happening yet, so ya better get used to it. Or, please go off in a corner and whine with Brian.
June 11th, 2007 at 12:36 pm
Brown has created NEITHER an offense OR defense that could win a championship. He has simply brought a lazy, underachieving, unmotivated team up to decent defensive standards, but it obviously cannot shut down a quality opponent.
Point #2: What about all of those famed “adjustments” Brown was going to make after watching Game One films? Kenny Roda just cracked me up in the press-conference, calling out the coach on the 2nd question: “Mike, you had 72 hours to make the adjustments; so why were you down by 20+ in the first half??” Classic. Brown had no answer, offensively or defensively. Gilbert better face the fact that this coach has taken a team as far as he is capable of.
June 11th, 2007 at 1:05 pm
Kenny Roda is an idiot though. He’s like one of those really loud guys you see at the Golden Tee in your local pub who scream and pump their fists after sinking a sick birdie putt. And this Munch guy… my god, how awful. Is he really the drive time anchor for WKNR now? Tinny voice. Unapologetic homer. Sententious. A complete disaster.
June 11th, 2007 at 1:10 pm
At least Roda had the guts to ask the question we all wanted to.
And while I didn’t think I’d like Munch, I’ve done a complete 180. He’s outstanding, crams so much into his timeslot, is very knowledgable; despite the bad voice.
June 11th, 2007 at 1:27 pm
yeah, munch sounds like chucky from the rug rats, i hate his voice to, that is why i do not listen to him any more, his voice hurts my ears.
June 11th, 2007 at 1:29 pm
brown is going to be alright, just need players, remeber fratello and his slow it down off. he went with what he had. Its ferry that dgilbert should not fall in love with, he need to do some serious wheeling and dealing this summer, and not come away with the ju ju beads and gummy bears he got a couple years ago.
June 11th, 2007 at 2:32 pm
Mike Brown has to coach the players that he has and put them in positions to succeed. The great asset of course is Lebron James. I blame Coach Poop Brown for the struggles Lebron has been going through. He is not putting him in a position to score or even succeed.
He gives the ball to Lebron at the top of the three point line nearly every time down. Side note, Lebron’s 3 point shooting tho improved is not the strong part of his game. At this point Lebron has to stand around and wait for the lumbering Ilgauskas to set a screen, or very often Varejo. As one of the bigs comes to set the screen they bring along the Spurs BIG (duncan).
Now lets look at this, imagine a scale with Lebron on offense on one side and Bruce Bowen on the other to defend. Advantage goes heavily to Lebron. Now imagine the scale, Varejo and Lebron on offense vs Bowen and Duncan on defense. The Scale is not so easily going with Lebron, infact after two games its clearly with Bowen and Duncan.
The only time the screen and roll has ever been effective in NBA basketball is when the offensive team has not only a great perimeter but even more so a great big man to catch, finish, pass, dribble, etc.. ie stockton/malone, amare/nash, parker/duncan. Because the model of the pick and roll is to say pick your poison, go with on and we go with the other. Now if you are the spurs, who are you going to pick, Varejo or Lebron? They are doubling Lebron immediately every time on the screen and roll and its single handidly killing the Cavs offense because of the ineptitude of the Cavs bigs.
Brown has to play to his teams strength which is LBJ and he has to get him the ball where he can score, create, and draw fouls. If lebron is 30-40 feet away from the hoop he can only pass the ball when doubled and hope to get it back. He is not a threat and that is what the Spurs want.
June 11th, 2007 at 2:37 pm
Holy smokes, people. You’re in the NBA Finals for crying out loud. Granted Cavs are down 2 to a dominant team, but coming home should account for something. Just to be competitive for a change would be a good thing. Don’t go tearing down the wall before the final brick has been laid (no pun intended).
June 11th, 2007 at 3:50 pm
We’re well aware, Kyle, but also frustrated at *obvious* coaching moves that could help the team be competitive are ignored. OK, great they’re here…so what? Be happy and go home in 4? NO. We want the team to play with some gusto, the coaches to get on the stick and realize some offense is needed to complement Brown’s legendary defense. It’s just human nature to want all the marbles when we’re here. If we give it our best shot and lose, fine. It’s the WAY this team is succumbing that’s so distressing.
June 11th, 2007 at 5:03 pm
I think the team has far exceeded expectations this year, and could handle them losing in the finals if they were giving their all. They are ahead of schedule.
But watching them going through the motions for entire quarters or halves is really frustrating. The coaches are hamstrung with problems on the roster, and the whole Hughes thing is a disaster (even if you replace him, you still have to play him or someone like Snow/Jones later to fill those minutes), but if I saw the players diving on the floor and disrupting the Spurs from time to time, this would be a lot easier to take.
Hope that home cooking gives them a shot of energy. They clearly need it.
June 11th, 2007 at 7:32 pm
Just had a thought. If Mike Brown does everything right - sits Hughes, starts Boobie, keeps the quick lineup out there longer - will the series be won? I don’t think so. I’m a Cavs fan from way back but this is looking like SA in 5, maybe 6 games at best.
Okay, assuming there is next to nothing that will help Cleveland win the series, what will sitting Hughes do to team chemistry and Hughes’ psyche? Will sitting the ‘guts’ man of the team hurt? Is this why a crippled Hughes still starts the games? (I have no idea, just a thought.)
June 11th, 2007 at 7:33 pm
Just had a thought. If Mike Brown does everything right - sits Hughes, starts Boobie, keeps the quick lineup out there longer - will the series be won? I don’t think so. I’m a Cavs fan from way back but this is looking like SA in 5, maybe 6 games at best.
Okay, assuming there is next to nothing that will help Cleveland win the series, what will sitting Hughes do to team chemistry and Hughes’ psyche? Will sitting the ‘guts’ man of the team hurt? Is this why a crippled Hughes still starts the games? (I have no idea, just a thought.)
June 11th, 2007 at 11:00 pm
hey dinner bell mel whats up with the double post. this series is going 7 and the cavs will win, mark my post.
June 12th, 2007 at 4:24 am
Doc,
Just a clarification: Second-round picks are not “pure luck.” Granted, some luck is involved, but you could put together a decent team comprised of second rounders. Carlos Boozer, Gilbert Arenas, Michael Redd, Manu Ginobili, Rashard Lewis, Stephen Jackson, Bobby Simmons, Chris Duhon, to say nothing of Varejao or Gibson.
With international players becoming more and more of a force in the NBA, the likelihood of drafting a quality player in the 2nd round is increasing.
Obviously, I’d rather have a first-rounder, but don’t be so quick to dismiss the organization that drafts well in the second round.
June 12th, 2007 at 4:52 am
Unless you’re listing second rounders who were all drafted by the same team or GM, your list does nothing to dispel the notion that drafting in the second round is pure luck.
That said, I think we can give Ferry credit for one good draft pick. By the same token, his first round pick has been a flop so far. And of course the signings he made two years ago–during the most important free agency period in team history–have worked out quite poorly.
June 12th, 2007 at 9:33 am
Lebron needs to go HARD at Duncan and try to get him in foul trouble. Thats how the Jazz were able to beat the Spurs. Without Duncan in there, the Spurs are a totally diferent team, and beatable.
Go Cavs!
Joe Hoops
President, Alan Tucker Fanclub
June 12th, 2007 at 12:10 pm
Um, you named six or seven really good second round draft picks,. Out of like hundreds of players who aren’t even in the league anymore. If Ferry was so savvy, he would have drafted Gibson ahead of Shannon Brown. He got a little lucky. If you want to anoint him as the next Jerry West just because Gibson worked out, go for it.
June 12th, 2007 at 1:09 pm
Normally, I agree with you, Doc. But this statement is incorrect:
“If Ferry was so savvy, he would have drafted Gibson ahead of Shannon Brown.”
It was actually a ’savvier’ move by drafting Gibson in the 2nd round. He got value for the pick. If he’d drafted Gibson first, the Cavs wouldn’t have Shannon Brown. By doing it his way, Ferry got both of them.
June 12th, 2007 at 1:14 pm
Doc,
Perhaps Ferry was savvy enough to know that he could grab both Gibson and Brown, knowing that he was lucky to have Brown around with the first pick and that Gibson would be there with the second. After all, the Cavs were the only one of two teams Gibson interviewed with and Houston was not in position to take him.
Everyone was lauding the signings Ferry made two season ago. Marshall was one of the best bench players in the league last year and DJ was cluctch in a lot of games. Had we not spent the money, he would have been criticized to no end that he did not want LeBron to stay if he did not spend the $$$. Had LeBron simply stated he would never leave, then perhaps there might not have been as much pressure to spend all the money. Looking back, the only signing I am really upset with now is Hughes because I think he has reached his peack with this team. The others we can still use or trade away.
By no means has this team reached its peak yet. They are a very young group, coach and FO included. To think they made it this far so quick, to me is astonishing. Am I glad they have been out hustled the first two games, Heck No. But, I do realize that this is only going to make everyone better in the long run.
June 12th, 2007 at 2:25 pm
Time out…. Donyell Marshall was one of the best bench players in the league last year???!?!?! He averaged 9 ppg, 39% shooting, 6 rebounds (basically all career lows.) Damona has never shot higher than 39% since joining the squad. Hughes has obviously been an unmitigated disaster. This assumption that Boatshoes “had to sign somebody or else LBJ was going to leave” is ludicrous. If you go into a restaurant and all they’re serving is human feces and rat urine, that doesn’t mean you say “damn, I guess I’ll have to go with the rat piss tonight.” You can choose not buy detritus. It’s an option. It really is.
Now we can’t sign Rashard lewis. Chauncey Billups is out of our league. We can’t even go after Matt Barnes. We’re stuck. All we can do is hope Sasha and Gooden and Shannon Brown and Gibson continue to improve. Just tossing money around just for kicks simply isn’t justifiable. Ask Isaiah Thomas. Danny Ferry screwed up. There’s no other way around it. He rushed to make a big splash at a time when we weren’t even a playoff team. Imagine if we had a little cap space this summer? Coming off an appearance in the NBA Finals? Guys would be banging down our door to play with the King. Now we get to sit on the sidelines all summer while all the other teams (Bulls) make moves to get better. Ferry will have to roll up his jeans to mid calf, remove the socks, slide into some sick new boatshoes and try to catch lightning in a bottle with our mid level exception.
June 12th, 2007 at 2:28 pm
If Ferry were so savvy, he could have drafted Gibson first then taken that Millsap fellow from Utah later. Better yet, he could have traded the first rounder for another second rounder then taken three gems in round two.
Whether everybody was lauding Ferry or not two summers ago is moot. He’s paid to forecast future performance, over the life of a contract, not to worry about press clippings and radio talk shows. There are some young players on the roster who are going to help the team improve, but there’s an awful lot of dead weight too and it wasn’t all that hard to see it coming.
June 12th, 2007 at 7:05 pm
NOW THAT IS THE SASHA THAT I HAVE BEEN BACKING SINCE HE BEEN, HERE, KEEP THAT UP AND THEY SHOULD RESIGN HIM
June 12th, 2007 at 7:22 pm
Doc,
Another clarification: If you go to basketball_reference.com, you’ll find that nearly every draft has a couple quality second round picks. It isn’t seven out of hundreds.
The players I picked mostly began their careers in the last five or six years (Jackson excepted), and it’s hardly a comprehensive list. Still, it’s interesting to note that you are bemoaning that the Cavs won’t have the $ to go after one of those players (Lewis), or that Redd and Simmons (two other of those players) were marquee free agents two years ago, or that Boozer was one of the best power forwards in the game this year. Arenas is an outstanding player, who has averaged almost 23 points a game FOR HIS CAREER! These are very fine players, and they would be top half first rounders if drafted today.
If you did a study, I’m sure you’d find that there is much less talent at the bottom than at the top, and that it decreases at regular intervals. But it’s just wrong to say it’s “pure luck.” “Educated guesses” might be a more appropriate term.
June 12th, 2007 at 7:31 pm
Larry,
I respect your opinion in most matters, but you’re just wrong about this. Good players can be found in the second round. I wouldn’t want to live there, but it happens with regularity.
Furthermore, you second the notion that the second round is pure luck, and then you criticize Ferry for not guessing “luckier” by drafting Gibson higher and then picking Millsap? That makes no sense. If it’s a crapshoot as you suggest, it would be remarkable luck for him to strike gold in that manner twice.
Ferry’s drafting record is minimal — two years. In 2006, he had no picks, but this year he acquired Gibson (who certainly seems like a good pick) and Brown. I’ll go on record as saying Brown will be a decent player, but even if he isn’t, wouldn’t you say that Daniel Gibson is a fair return for the two draft picks the Cavs had?
June 12th, 2007 at 8:49 pm
What a demoralizing game. You cant’ say they didn’t have their chances. I am not sure how it happens that Anderson takes the most critical shot of the game, does he not understand how to signal for a TO? What a blown opportunity.
June 12th, 2007 at 8:50 pm
DAMN IT, MAN IT WAS SO CLOSE, HEY IT WAS A BETTER GAME. THAT WAS THE FIRST TIME I EVER SAW LEBRON CHOKE. HE SHOULD OF NOT PASS THAT BALL TO ANDY, BUT THAT IS NEITHER HERE OR THERE. ITS GOOD TO BE PLAYING IN JUNE
June 12th, 2007 at 8:53 pm
LEBRON WAS FOULED BY BOWEN AT THE END. YOU COULD TELL HE WAS TRYING TO FOUL HIM BUT LEBRON GOT THE SHOT OFF AND THEY DIDN’T CALL IT. ITS UNBELIEVABLE HOW THE SPURS DON’T GET CALLED FOR FOULS. BOWEN HAD WHAT, 1 FOUL THE WHOLE GAME, GAURDING ONE OF THE BEST PLAYERS IN THE LEAGUE. WHAT THE FOCK ARE THE REFS LOOKING AT OUT THERE?????
June 12th, 2007 at 9:01 pm
Has Varejao ever played Bball before? He acted like the only option available was to drive towards the basket (head down) against Duncan. What a horrible play, quite possibly the worst I have ever witnessed in an NBA finals game.
June 12th, 2007 at 9:50 pm
Wow, so it’s come down to whether it’s going to be a sweep or not. The thing that sucks is, even though it was close and the Cavs were in it, you could just tell the Spurs were having an “off night” themselves. JoeHoops, yeah Lebron should have gotten that call at the end, but honestly, I don’t know he would have made three in a row, or if he did, who would have even had the balls to take a shot in overtime. It just seemed like every single Cavs player knew his shot was off tonight and no one wanted to take it. Varejao especially led in this category, as the only way I can describe his game tonight is how Butch Davis once angered Jeff Garcia–”skittish.”
June 12th, 2007 at 9:51 pm
If the cavs are going to choke that many open 3’s, we don’t deserve a chip.
June 12th, 2007 at 10:14 pm
Every body stop whining, sure we wanted to win, it has been one heck of a ride. If boat shoes make the right move this summer, we will be back next year, and we will have the taste of the finals under our belt, sit back enjoy thursday game, hell the city of cleveland is in the spot light. the stars are out, show some pride.
June 13th, 2007 at 5:52 am
Kevin:
I don’t think drafting in the second round is pure luck, but I am arguing that listing good players, league-wide, who were taken late doesn’t prove anything.
If the players you listed were all taken by the same GM, it would prove that the GM in question was good at uncovering second round nuggets. Ferry has only found one so far and really has no track record yet.
My point about Millsap was supposed to be tongue in cheek; if Ferry were the perfect second round drafter, he would have uncovered all the second round gems and traded away some of the team’s dead wood for them.
June 13th, 2007 at 6:09 pm
Larry,
Fair point on the consistency in drafting.