All-NBA First Team: messed up
Posted May 10th, 2007 by Brian Windhorst
This was dispatched to me on April 14 by the NBA office as part of my All-NBA team vote:
"You have been chosen by the National Basketball Association to serve on a committee to vote for the All-NBA Team for the 2006-07 season. Please vote for the player at the position that he plays regularly. You can vote for five players on each of the three All-NBA teams. No ties may be awarded."
I did not bold and underline that sentence. It was bolded and underlined by the league. I’d like to bring this up after viewing the All-NBA Voting that was released by the league today. There were 129 ballots out there, therefore there must be 129 first-team votes for center. However, if you combine Amare Stoudemire (36), Yao Ming (38), Dwight Howard (1), Shaquille O’Neal (3, one of them mine), and Marcus Camby (2) you come up with 80 votes. Where are the other 49 votes? I’ll tell you, in Tim Duncan’s totals. And perhaps a few in Dirk Nowitzki. Which is why, in a nutshell, LeBron James was left off the first team.
How do I know this? Because if you combine all the forwards who got first-team votes you come up with 297. If each voter voted for two forwards as instructed there would be only 258 total votes.
But this isn’t close to where the tomfoolery ends. This from the NBA release today:
"The media voted for All-NBA First, Second and Third Teams by position with points awarded on a 5-3-1 basis."
OK, well Stoudemire got 36 first-place votes and, says the release, 494 overall points. This is mathematically impossible. See, 36 first-place votes X 5 points each = 180 points. Then let’s just assume Stoudemire was second on every other ballot (which is impossible because I personally put him on the third team, but anyway) so say he’s got 93 second-place votes. That’s 93 second-place votes X 3 points each = 279. Add up the points: 180 + 279 = 459. 459 is the max he can have. The 494 points reported, though, is exactly the same as LeBron’s total. Which seems a bit odd/fishy. But Stoudemire doesn’t have to out vote LeBron for the team, just the other centers.
I can only assume this was a clerical error. At least I really hope so, otherwise there’s some funny business going on. According to reader Alan Dail, who actually added up all the possible points across the board, there’s 145 too many. Take away those excess 145 from Stoudemire’s total and everything seems to jive and he edges Yao Ming on the first team. Or maybe he doesn’t. Hmmmm…
Anyway, my fellow media voters have really disappointed me this awards season. I guess they didn’t like any of the center choices so they stuck in Duncan (so I guess those 74 games Francisco Elson and Fabricio Oberto combined to start for the Spurs at center must be meaningless) on the first team. The NBA-released All-Star ballot lists both Duncan and Dirk as forwards, by the by.
As such, Duncan ended up with 30 more first place votes than LeBron, who was bumped to the second team even though he may’ve been on more ballots as a forward than Duncan. Plus, I know some voters put Tracy McGrady in as a forward. He’s a guard. Shane Battier is the Rocket’s small forward. I mean, I wanted to get McGrady on the first team badly, too. Perhaps I should’ve just put Steve Nash at center since he’d have gotten the points anyway because the NBA seems to just turn the other cheek to the rampant idiocy.
Sorry to say, here’s an offender right here: respected colleague and ESPN Insider Chris Sheridan put Dirk at center and McGrady at forward on the first team.
Now, if you want to make the argument that you should vote for the five best players regardless of position, fine. If you want to talk about how there aren’t five positions left in basketball, cool. Maybe you have a point and there can be a debate. But those aren’t the rules now, as the NBA specifically spells out and many voters, including this one, follow. You can see my ballot in case you forgot.
It may just be a story for one day, but the All-NBA team does mean a lot to a lot of people and those of us tasked with deciding it and the folks in New York tabulating it ought to treat it with a lot more respect.
Finally, I am feeling no regrets voting Nash as my MVP (Dirk is going to win), Carlos Boozer on my second-team All-NBA (he didn’t make any teams), and giving Sasha Pavlovic his only vote for Most Improved Player.
May 11th, 2007 at 12:33 am
I guess I’m not the only one a little pissed about this.
Dirk is no center
Duncan is only a forward because he says he is.
How many votes did LeBron lose to Kobe and Nash because some yahoos decided to list him as a guard?
The traditional center position is almost extinct
The traditional 2 and 3 positions are almost extinct (see: swingman)
Either I’m a bitter homer or just crochety. But regardless, it sucks because its a permanent smear on LeBron’s legacy
May 11th, 2007 at 12:37 am
what legacy do lebron have, dude wake up and smell the dirty gym socks. she does not have a legacy. the only legacy that she have is a figament of your imagination. you boys from cleveland is so happy to get someone with star power that you are ready to give them the wilt chamberlin or micheal jordon crown of excellentcy. lebron has not done jack and will not do jack with the jack up team he is on. he is a good player, with the potential to be a star but face it, playing for the cavs he will never reach that potential.
May 11th, 2007 at 1:04 am
this is f__ked up…..
May 11th, 2007 at 3:33 am
Kobe & Wade,
How’s the summer vacation?
May 11th, 2007 at 4:22 am
As I wrote on FTS, Be Afriad, Nets Fans, Be Very Afraid…
I have a feeling LeBron is going to be slightly pissed about the whole situation, and when LeBron gets pissed, watch out…
reminds me of 2004 when LeBron had a bit of a beef with Larry Brown because of the whole Olympics mess. All he did then was hrow 43 on the Pistons…
Any hope the Nets had may have just disappeared because of the joke the NBA League Office has become…..
FTS
http://www.fearthesword.com
May 11th, 2007 at 4:28 am
Alan Tucker is going to be SOOOOOOOO happy!!
May 11th, 2007 at 4:35 am
First, why do these awards have to be voted on before the playoffs?
Second, when is Newble going to tackle the problem in Iraq? Can’t he and the boys draft a letter or two to stop all the violence?
May 11th, 2007 at 4:52 am
“Clerical” errors are hilarious, however, if LeBron wants to make the first team, he’ll have to deal with the perception that he coasted through many games this season.
May 11th, 2007 at 5:15 am
the summer vacation is great, we are sitting around looking at our “CHAMPIONSHIP RINGS”, any way check this out, dirk stats for this year was 24pts 9rebs 3ast. now correct me if im wrong Lebron had better stats then that last year. so what the heck is going on, is this the lets feel sorry for dirk mvp award, because, i do not like the choice, hell lebron stats are better then dirk this year, please tell me were is the justice. im just a sports fan not a lebron fan, trying to understand what the heck is going on.
May 11th, 2007 at 5:28 am
The fact that LeBron James averaged over 27 points, over 6 assists, and over 6 rebounds for the third straight year, something only Oscar Robertson did, is left unnoticed and given a second team all-NBA is unbelievable. I respect you for following the rules, as other people should, something that happens often now in this society.I also can’t believe although i still hate him, Carlos Boozer should have been on one of those teams. I don’t know what kind of games these voters are watching.
May 11th, 2007 at 5:52 am
FearTheSword, I hope LeBron does indeed get pissed about this, as it looks like the pistons are going to sweep the bulls, so there’s no point letting them sit around and wait for the cavs with rasheed sharpening his fangs and tayshaun becoming even more anorexic. I knew LBJ wouldn’t sign Newble’s letter (bad for business), but man, Jones would be, well, David Wesley, if he didn’t have Li Ning. I wonder how much money he is actually bringing in for them.
May 11th, 2007 at 6:55 am
There’s an obvious solution to this problem that’s missing. All the NBA has to do is handout a sheet with the ballot that lists every player’s position. Then, you only let the writers vote fot the position as listed on the sheet. It’s not that hard. I don’t know why the leadership in most sports always try to make these things WAY more difficult than need be. I suppose because it creates controversy which leads to tools like us posting away on message boards and blog comments!
May 11th, 2007 at 7:31 am
The real problem is that those doing the voting don’t watch enough games simply because of location. This has been spoken on ad nauseum, but anyone who knew anything about Dallas knew they were a terrible passing team. Focus the defense on Dirk and they are done. GSW did exactly that. I won’t quite go as far as saying its a tragedy, but Nash got completely fleeced of his 3rd straight MVP. As far as Im concerned, the league is all about perception and the media sure did a good job of perceiving Dirk as the best player, which he is not. He may not even be in the top 5 as far as players who change the whole dynamic of the game (Nash, Duncan, Lebron, Kobe, healthy Wade can help their teams MUCH more when they dont score than Dirk does). The fact hes considered a forward and has little to zero post game (or any game inside of 12 feet) is a joke. Dont get me wrong, Dirk is a good player, but the guys listed above are great and bring much more to the table. I understand the Mavs had the best record, but the player awards should be awarded after the finals. Lebron might coast through the season, but at least him and Duncan can post guys up who are 5 inches shorter….
May 11th, 2007 at 7:55 am
If the stats above are correct, I’m amazed Dirk averages just 3 assists per game. At his height, and with the attention he must draw, he should have a lot more.
Also, I still don’t buy (what has now become the conventional wisdom)that LeBron was “coasting” in the first half. He may have been dejected because the team was so boring, and he may have been tired-legged, but you don’t get the level he’s at if you don’t have some competitiveness once the game starts.
There’s really nothing to criticize him about–it’s not like he writes those Sprite commercials.
May 11th, 2007 at 7:57 am
i don’t care at all.
they can put eric snow on the first team.
it don’t mean a thing if you ain’t got that ring.
right dirk????
May 11th, 2007 at 8:02 am
“I bent the rules ever so slightly and listed Dirk at center and McGrady at forward so I could squeeze LBJ onto the first team. So sue me” (Sheridan).
I don’t get this statement - if he hadn’t bent the rules at all, LeBron still could have been on his first team…
May 11th, 2007 at 9:20 am
Larry is right about the Iraq thing. I’m glad BW used that extra filler space to write about Ira Newble, World Ambassador. WHEN WILL IRA STEP UP THE THE PLATE AND BRING OUR BOYS HOME? It’s shameful. Or, at the very least, make an unannounced appearance in Baghdad and perform for the troops. Maybe a duet with Dolly Parton, or something like that.
With respect to the All-NBA nonsense, some good points were made above. But sorry, a ton of credibility was lost when it was written that Pavlovic would get a vote because nobody else would vote for him. Fans posing as journalists - - I’ll give the benefit of the doubt, and surmise that one of those Kent State profs really dropped the ball.
Not to backtrack, but I don’t understand why Deron Williams didn’t get any media respect in that Most-Improved vote. What a regular season improvement from last season! Last year the media was talking about what a huge bust he was, and how they blew it by not taking Chris Paul. A very good regular season, and a very good postseason. Hell, if the Cavs need to know what they need to have any shot at ever beating a West team (I mean, other than Utah’s terrific power forward, who looks a lot like a guy the Cavs once had), then they need to look no further than Utah’s point guard.
May 11th, 2007 at 9:21 am
Why doesn’t the NBA just stipulate what position each player plays? Why is it left up to the voters to decide who plays where? Wouldn’t that solve all this?
I guess it wouldn’t be as easy, then, to tinker with the numbers, but it seems to make the most sense.
May 11th, 2007 at 9:38 am
I agree. I think there is still a bunch of items in the NBA that are flawed. I hope that they work on fixing some of the issues that get brought up regularly.
May 11th, 2007 at 9:43 am
If the NBA truly cared about the All-Vote, then they’d let the coaches do the voting, without being allowed to vote for their own players. Just like the defensive teams are selected. Otherwise, it is what it is, a shrewd public relations move for the NBA, just another opportunity to involve the media and make sure they remain David Stern’s lapdogs.
Anyway, it’s good James didn’t make it onto the first team. He’ll make it onto plenty of first teams over the course of the next 10 years. Great player. But something has to occasionally be done with out-of-control egos, no matter who you are or what line of work you’re in. Perhaps this will provide him the necessary incentive to give ticket buyers full value for their regular season tickets, instead of giving full effort only when he deems it worthy of his Icon-ness.
May 11th, 2007 at 9:46 am
I think Gilbert Arenas deserved the 1st team more than Kobe
May 11th, 2007 at 10:09 am
As much of a joke Dirk the hasselhoff-loving nowitzki is, I’m thankful that Steve Nash didn’t win the MVP. Never have I seen an MVP candidate play so little defense and receive so little criticism for it.
May 11th, 2007 at 10:23 am
Geddy, what’s your problem with Hasselhoff?
May 11th, 2007 at 10:27 am
Geddy,
can you say Chareles Barkley?
May 11th, 2007 at 11:05 am
Anybody who was screwed out of a position on the All-NBA teams is probably out a bunch of money as well. Well, a bunch relative to what the normal person makes but 50k or whatever isn’t anything to sneeze at.
May 11th, 2007 at 11:25 am
Clerical error? You’re counting Stoudemire as though he only got votes at Center. NBA lists the total number of votes. Isn’t it possible someone may have put Stoudemire at F in their votes to “make room” as Sheridan did?
Everyone on the first team who plays either G or F got more votes than James. You gonna list him at C? Things didn’t work out for your boy, but to shout CONSPIRACY is just weak.
May 11th, 2007 at 12:17 pm
Conspiracy? Ilgauskas and Snow being left off the first team is conspiracy. James failing to make it is the national media’s perceptive conclusion that James skateboarded his way through the first half of the season.
I mean, seriously, who cares? For God’s sakes, a local media guy voted for SASHA PAVLOVIC as MOST-IMPROVED! Why? Because he knew nobody else would, and admitted it! Then subsequently rationalized that Pavlovic actually deserved it! How credible is THAT?
Problem is, bias is not isolated to Akron. These votes can’t be taken seriously except for the media debate which follows. Which David Stern creams in his shorts about.
Let LeBron sneak around a house and shoot green paint at a big human tongue. Even if he was due a small bonus if he made it onto the first team, I think somehow he’ll monetarily survive this “outrageous” slight.
May 11th, 2007 at 12:43 pm
Fans attic,
You need to re-read BW’s article. It is impossible for Amare to amass 494 points.
It says he had 1st place votes - 36x 5 is 180.
Assuming the rest of the votes were for second would be 93 x 3 for 279. That’s a total of 459….not 494.
It’s not a conspiracy…it’s simple math. They made a mistake in Amare’s total points. And the overall voting points are 145 more points than there should be.
Stern needs to explain what happened.
May 11th, 2007 at 12:46 pm
Sorry fans attic, that should have been addressed to “pablo”.
May 11th, 2007 at 1:51 pm
You all are right it looks like. NBA.com has changed their total points for Stoudemire from 494 to 351. Looks like there was a clerical error overall.
May 11th, 2007 at 1:53 pm
However, this doesn’t change the fact that two players got more points than James at his position. I’m an eastern conference guy and I can’t see putting James in over Duncan or Nowitzki. So then, what’s the slight?
May 11th, 2007 at 1:58 pm
“All NBA Team.” Classic. What does that even mean, “All NBA?” You know how you go to Starbucks in February and you can hear people in line debating which movie actually deserved the Academy Award for Best Picture, as opposed to which movie won? And you think to yourself, “Where do these people find the time to be such incredibly depressing losers?”
Well, I get the feeling those people are reading blogs like this one and saying the same thing. So please, let’s get back to more substantive discussions, like what name Michael Jordan and Kevin Bacon are going to give their baby when it finally arrives.
May 11th, 2007 at 2:19 pm
So why do I hassle the Hoff? well of course, most recently there is this, which we’ve all seen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPYDOam_qec&mode=related&search=
But I think it all started with this classic clip of hilarity:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJQVlVHsFF8
May 11th, 2007 at 4:28 pm
I’m sick of this lack of respect from the national media. The problem is that these writers are a)pissed that LeBron doesn’t play in New York, and b) They are sick of all the positive stories about this kid and they’re annoyed they haven’t been able to dig up dirt on him. But I’ll tell you what, there are 2 REAL superstars left in these playoffs. One is Tim Duncan and the other is LeBron. Having a superstar of his caliber is really what can fuel an upset in the NBA playoff(anyone remember Cavs v. Bulls in the late 80’s). So don’t think despite being written off by the East Coast driven media that the Pistons and the rest of the league would love it if they didn’t have to face the Cavs.
May 11th, 2007 at 4:51 pm
why dont you quit whining and worry about things that matter, like playoff games?
May 11th, 2007 at 6:27 pm
BW…I concur completely. I tried to explain it on my blog in a half-assed manner earlier today…then again, I guess that explains the difference between a paid professional and a damn blogger like myself. Good post.
May 11th, 2007 at 7:58 pm
Wow. I heard something about that Hasselhoff drunk video, but I wasn’t interested enough to look at it. And now I have. Wow. I know I already said that, but wow. It is indeed grand in its entirety, but my personal favorite moment occurs at approximately the 3:27 mark.
May 11th, 2007 at 8:59 pm
than you warriors for beating that lilly white team utah, i knew that you guys could do it. actually i put my money on the brothers to win the series in 6 games.
May 11th, 2007 at 9:04 pm
Don’t worry, LeBron is a lock to chock and miss a few key last minute shots when the Cav’s face the Pistons to make everyone forget about him getting hosed in the All-NBA voting.
May 11th, 2007 at 9:05 pm
And yes I meant choke, I am just a moron.
May 11th, 2007 at 10:07 pm
THE SLAM OF THE YEAR, BYRON DAVIS ON ANDRE KIRILINKO, DAMN, THAT SLAM WILL GO DOWN AS NBA BEST, CONSIDERING THE FACT THAT BYRON IS SMALLER THEN ANDRE AND THAT ANDRE IS A SHOT BLOCK SPECIALIST, THAT SLAM WAS OFF THE CHAZANNNNNNN!!!!!! BEAT UTAH.
May 12th, 2007 at 3:30 am
wahh wahhh waahhh.
you sound like a bunch of baby. who really cares who was voted first team NBA?
nobody even remembers who won a month later.
as far as the gripe about positions goes, you are wrong!
Tim Duncan is a forward, and a center. Tracy McGrady is a guard, and a forward. Dirk does play center at times. Lebron even plays mutiple positions, depending on the lineup. When the NBA said to vote for players at their usual position, they meant do not list Shaq as a pg. Lebron is a great player, but all the of 5 guys who made it, deserved to.
May 12th, 2007 at 9:37 am
Hey Kobe&Wade… shouldn’t your name be Kobe&Wade&Shaq? You say your on vacation admiring your championship rings.. i only wonder if Shaq allows this to happen? I wouldn’t think he’d let those puppies out of his house for too long…
May 12th, 2007 at 9:55 am
Who is “Byron” Davis, all-caps?
May 12th, 2007 at 10:49 am
Did anyone else notice Baron Davis admit to a “touch of the flu” after the game last night? I also saw him breathing fast on the bench. Another playacting fraud!
May 12th, 2007 at 12:00 pm
To all the people who said “don’t you have better things to worry about?”:
No, he doesn’t. This is what happens when you have 3 days off in a conference finals series. You report everything that could possibly be considered salient about the team for two days and barring a big breaking news story on the third, you sit there and have some fun with some numbers that are clearly screwy… BECAUSE THERE’S NOTHING ELSE TO REPORT!
Thanks a lot, NBA and TNT, for 40 Games in 40 Nights. (nb: TNT doesn’t even carry the finals)
May 12th, 2007 at 1:04 pm
BW, this article was ripped off almost exactly. Check it out, you might want to do something about it. http://mvn.com/nba-cavaliers/2007/05/12/witness-protection-2/#comment-5368
May 12th, 2007 at 1:23 pm
the cavs need to win this first game in order to set the tone for the rest of the series. If by chance they do win this first game i believe they will sweep the series. I think once the cavs can beat detriot mentally then they will be able to beat them on the court. I further believe that if the cavs do not make it to the finals this year, unless some serious changes are made over the summer then it will be a long time before we get this opportunity again.
May 12th, 2007 at 1:43 pm
Amare? That’s the only bs first teamer. Think about it. Doesn’t playing with a legit first teamer like Nash HELP Amare? Of course it does. James deserved it over Amare. No doubt. James was the number one priroty for opposing defenses ALL season long. Amare was not. And he still had better numbers.
May 12th, 2007 at 2:05 pm
Im sorry that dan gilbert just want to see us get to the conf. finals, but i want to win the whole damn thing. go cavs, sasha need a good game, and the def. has to stay aggressive in order fo us to get this victory, wait a minute, what the hell is david blaine doing a commercial for the nba. okay this game is about to get started and i am expecting nothing short of a victory.
May 12th, 2007 at 2:15 pm
here we go they are clogging the middle and we are not hitting our jump shots, lets see what they do after this time out, we are down 14 to 4 but I am expecting us to bounce back and go on a run that will get us back into the ball game
May 12th, 2007 at 2:27 pm
this is ugly!!!!!!!they better get the off. 2gether or it is going to be a nets blow out and that is the last thing they want, hey maybe this is the game that damon and donyell have a breakout game. because right now the off. is sucking. get this crap 2gether coach brown.
May 12th, 2007 at 2:32 pm
larry need to get it 2gether or they need to bring in gibson and let him play pt.
May 12th, 2007 at 2:47 pm
THE OFFENSE IS VERY STAGNANT. SOME ONE HAS TO STEP IT UP.
May 12th, 2007 at 2:56 pm
I am alan tucker, and i am not surprise by the game so far, and i forsee a victory by the nets. oh yeah my dad use to work for the cavs and i know joe tait.
May 12th, 2007 at 6:30 pm
Billy/Fishfry/Fan/Getit2gether, please get off this blog.
May 14th, 2007 at 6:01 am
The real thing is. Who cares?