Re-hashing Vegas…my take
Posted February 28th, 2007 by Brian Windhorst
It seems, due to a rather slow time in sports news, that the popular national topic over the last couple of days has been the scene at the All-Star Game in Vegas a few weeks ago. I find this interesting, the whole news lag of it all.
Jason Whitlock of AOL Sports and Ken Berger of Newsday both wrote some columns about what was going on there, and Bill Simmons of ESPN.com called it a "Hip Hop Woodstock," which has morphed all this into an attack on the Hip Hop Culture. So Scoop Jackson of ESPN.com, who is often like a moth to the flame when there is a hint of a race issue anywhere in sports, came storming back to bash media members in general because, as he writes, "hip-hop thugs and their baby mammas (code: young black people) who
went to Vegas and displayed a side of ignorance that had veteran
reporters and columnists "scared" to go out of their rooms?" Scoop also worked up a bunch of stats that made it seem like there really weren’t that many arrests per capita or whatever.
Well, you all know that I am an avowed realist and I was also in Las Vegas, so I’m going to lay it down on the line and tell it like it was. It wasn’t about "Hip Hop culture" or "Gangbangers" or "Thugs" that was unnerving in Vegas. It was about the lawlessness on the streets. I’m not talking about what sort of music was coming out of clubs or what color people were. I’m talking about people smoking weed in hotel hallways and out on the street. I’m talking about walking through a casino and as you try to sort through the crowd overhearing a handful of drug deals. I’m talking about guys reaching out and grabbing women they didn’t know on the chest and elsewhere as they walked by. I’m talking about seeing guys flash guns. I saw all this with my own eyes.
No, I wasn’t afraid to leave my room. No, I didn’t feel close to death on the streets. But hell yes, there was stuff going on that no public organization from the NBA to the NRA to the ACLU to the NAACP would want to be associated with. Giving me arrest numbers is meaningless. There were no police anywhere to arrest anybody and everybody knew it. And no, I’m no prude, I’ve been visiting Vegas on a regular basis since I was a teen-ager. I’ve been all over that town at 3 a.m. and seen plenty.
I don’t care what kind of spin is being put on this, the truth is no organization from a city to a county to a state to a pro sports league can endorse lawlessness. Period. Which is why this is an issue, not fashion or music or skin color.
February 28th, 2007 at 6:43 pm
Mr. Windhorst,
It’s about time you quit talking about my shot selection and my “off the dribble flings.” Let’s keep it that way, partner.
- Larry H.
February 28th, 2007 at 7:05 pm
That’s why I’m glad I live in the midwest. Most people still respect rule of law.
February 28th, 2007 at 7:12 pm
And I just read the Scoop Jackson article. I can’t stand that dude. Everything is about race with him - Race, politics, whatever - never just real life. Culture and Race are the same thing to him - he can’t separate the two. So when the NBA institutes dress rules and all that it’s suddenly a race issue to him.
Anyone remember when they used to put a big bowl of spaghetti on the jumbotron when paul sorrento would come to the plate? Did ANYONE call that racist? No, of course not. But can you imagine if they’d have put a big watermelon up there when Albert Bell stepped up to the plate? ESPN needs to get rid of scoop.
February 28th, 2007 at 10:42 pm
Jackson reminds me a lot of the late Ralph Wiley, who was another blowhard that made anything and everything a race issue. If Kroger ran out of carrots, Wiley would go off that Kroger was trying to put the black man down. Jackson is no different.
If people really want Jackson to get a grip, then call him Robert Jackson. Robert without his Scoop is just another dude who’s missing his teeth. Both figuratively and literally.
March 1st, 2007 at 5:39 am
Nice work BW. My question is this: Why did it take over a week for this to become a “story”? Even the Pacman incident wasn’t reported until three days after the all star game. This was the all star game of one of our major sports, presumably covered by hundreds of sports journalists. Every major newspaper in America sends their local basketball beat reporter to these things. ESPN had its usual flotilla of talking heads everywhere. Where were the stories? Why didn’t this blog post appear last Sunday? Either this was some sort of fascist hush job perpetrated by corrupt local vegas authorities/David Stern or BW and all the rest of them were too drunk/stoned/hungover/strung out/strippered out to formulate coherent sentences on their laptops. Maybe next year the ABJ needs to send the Reverend Pluto to cover this thing. You know he’ll be in one of those wedding chapels all weekend writing a four part series about why dru joyce should be starting at point guard for the East All Stars. But at least he won’t be too glassy- eyed to see all the carnage and chaos, and perhaps slip the info into a Sunday “talkin Gangbangin’” section. And yes, “scoop” jackson is a moron.
March 1st, 2007 at 5:59 am
Doc,
Cause what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas, remember?? LOL..
I have been to Vegas a couple dozen times and you have it nailed. Prostitution isn’t the only thing that appears “legal” in Sin City, and everyone turns a blind eye to it because of all the money being tossed around. I was just happy to see LeBron get out of there in one piece. I don’t think the League will be heading back there any time soon, and a franchise actually being located there would be laughable…
FTS
http://www.fearthesword.com
March 1st, 2007 at 6:52 am
Thank god I live in Cleveland.
March 1st, 2007 at 7:46 am
“Thank god I live in Cleveland???” Wow. Those Terry Pluto faith columns must really be affecting your life in an amazing way. “Thank god for the mole on my butt.”
I suspect you live in the suburbs, not in the city, jmoe. If you actually lived in the City of Cleveland, the very last guy you would be thanking would be the G-Man upstairs.
Cleveland, Ohio. The Stairway to Heaven. Officially ranked #1 by the U.S. Census Bureau as the nation’s poorest city. What an honor. That’s like receiving an award for crotch rot.
March 1st, 2007 at 8:47 am
I feel sorry for Jason Whitlock who had the nuggets to point out the Emperor wasn’t wearing any clothes. I also like BW’s words in this blog…most importantly ‘Lawlessness’. If ‘adults’ like Scoop or Dave Zirin can’t understand this basic point and need bringing up the genisis of race in America, then this will never be resolved.
I don’t believe this issue will ever be settled because a problem isn’t even seen by some people, let alone any responsibilty being taken to rectify.
March 1st, 2007 at 9:41 am
This is not a race issue but a security
issue. You can,t have 302,000 people in
one area without adequate security. Hip
hoppers and rappers are not necessarily
criminals although their music indicates
such. Ignorant white people immediately
label these people as gang bangers. They
may party and carouse but they are not hard
core criminals.
March 1st, 2007 at 9:46 am
And Tucker:
I raised my family in the city of Cleveland,
my business is in the City of Cleveland and
I have been to Florida California and everywhere else in this great nation.
Cleveland is the best location in the
nation. We have the best medical facility
in the world, the best orchestra, outstanding sports facilities, grade A
restaurants and entertainment. If you
don’t like it why do you live here?
March 1st, 2007 at 10:03 am
jmoe, I don’t live there…I moved 28 years ago.
It’s a good thing Cleveland has the best medical facility and the best orchestra. It’s convenient. While examining the city, a doctor can perform CPR while a tuba player plays taps.
March 1st, 2007 at 10:11 am
jmoe - WELL SAID!
Let me add to the list:
We’ll never have a water shortage.
Our traffic is resonable.
Housing costs are reasonable.
We have a diverse population of races and cultures.
We have very nice museums for a city of 3 million. (Art, History, Rock Hall, Science Center etc)
We have some of the best and most exciting high school sports in the nation.
Despite our team’s oft dissappointments, we have some of the best sporting venues in the country. Jacob’s Field is still one of THE nicest places to watch a ballgame - the Q is selling out regularly for a reason - and if the browns ever have even a .500 season the entire LakeFront would be giddy all season long.
I’ve been to most of the 50 states and while some states have better weather, some have better scenary - I also say Cleveland is the Best Location in the Nation!
March 1st, 2007 at 10:14 am
So you don’t live here.
You don’t like the city.
You don’t like the sports teams.
I can’t quite tell yet, but it seems you MIGHT not be the biggest Terry Pluto fan…
Why do you post so much?
March 1st, 2007 at 10:30 am
Damn, I was away for a few days and hoped Alan Tucker had left the building. Sadly, my wishes were not granted. Beat it punk.
March 1st, 2007 at 1:08 pm
Don’t Feed The Beast!
March 1st, 2007 at 5:39 pm
this blog is so funny, i could always count on a good laugh from the posters, before i read tucker responds to jmoe i was depress but afterward my depression was gone, who need haldol or ativan we go bw blog, keep up the good work fellows, pretty soon u will need a prescription to read the blog
March 1st, 2007 at 7:09 pm
it’s not code for anything that you assume
thug, gang-banger does not imply ethnicity or race
it instead refers to completely worthless losers
March 1st, 2007 at 8:14 pm
I moved away from Cleveland after spending roughly 1.5 years there, living downtown. While I hated my job, I loved the City, and loved the people.
As for Las Vegas, as much as I want to take the side of Scoop Jackson, people from any race can smoke weed, molest women, and flash guns (e.g. Michigan Militia). However, when all those things are occurring in public and nobody does anything to stop it, its a problem. Scoop Jackson is crazy if he thinks that the people who have reported problems in Las Vegas are racist, or were frightened because they observed African Americans, or whatever motivation Scoop attributes to them. Scoop ought to know better.
As for Ralph Wiley, please don’t equate him with Scoop Jackson. Ralph was a better writer, had more original ideas, and had a much better sense of humour than Scoop. He is one of the best sports writers ever, and he is missed.
March 1st, 2007 at 9:28 pm
Sorry, Father Figure, but I couldn’t stand Wiley’s writing. While Jackson’s points can be off-target, I found many of Wiley’s purported points to be just plain nonsense. And his went completely off the rails when he decided to accept those extra checks to become an ESPN idiot talking head. I wish our blog host would resist that same temptation.
And Tom, you completely lost me approximately halfway through your first word. No, I don’t live there anymore, and yes, I hate the city. Paid occasional visits when my parents were alive, and paid occasional visits to mooch my dad’s season tickets to Browns and Cavs games. I even enjoyed peeing in the giant vats at Cleveland Stadium with 3,000 other Indians fans. What your pointless rambling has to do with my relationship with sports teams and Terry Pluto, I have no idea.
It always kills me that the same people who get offended by Cleveland putdowns are the same people who live outside the city limits. Well, golly gee, if you love it so much, then go buy a house in a typical Cleveland neighborhood. Like the Hough area. Or the Glenville area. Plenty of availability. Plumbing optional.
March 2nd, 2007 at 10:53 am
Doc wrote…Why did it take over a week for this to become a “story”? Even the Pacman incident wasn’t reported until three days after the all star game…
That’s so not true. They were reporting the possible involvement of Pac Man Jones in the shooting incident on Monday afternoon. The same day it happened.
Simmons column was posted on Tuesday. Whitlock’s AOL column was published on Wednesday.
Most of the reaction was to those two columns and it came later last week and for that reason it might have seemed like it took a week for the story to break, but that simply wasn’t the case.
March 2nd, 2007 at 2:21 pm
I don’t know anything about the arrest statistics, but I spoke with a buddy who now works in Vegas who said it was the most dangerous frightening weekend anybody there can ever remember (and this is VEGAS we’re talking about). Said the waitresses where he worked were afraid to show up after the 1st day because of out-of-control dudes screaming obscenities at them, refusing to pay bills, walking out before their bills arrived, showing guns, and basically just scaring the shit out of everyone. That’s the only 1st hand evidence I have, but the source is someone who was there who I believe completely.
March 2nd, 2007 at 2:31 pm
Someone needs to publicly commend Jason Whitlock for being the 1st person with enough stones to speak out and tell the truth about this. He’s had much of the politically correct lynch mob trying to do a smear job on his ass ever since he wrote this article, and its COMPLETELY UNFAIR. Whitlock may piss some people off with his opinions sometimes, but he’s a skilled writer who’s completely honest and fearless. The fact that ESPN fired him and replaced him with a talentless superficial role-playing race-baiting hack like Scoop Jackson just shows how corporate and low ESPN has fallen. Whitlock should be commended.
March 2nd, 2007 at 2:34 pm
I think a lot of people are missing the point that Scoop was trying to make. If you read the articles about the All Star weekend and ever watch the news, it seems that the white media tends to blame everything on “hip hop culture” which is code for “black people”. Well, I think the point is, there were a lot of ignorant people in Vegas during All Star Weekend, and ignorance has NO COLOR!! However, when you read in every article all the other comments associated with the ignorance, like the music and hoes and the fact that there was a large number of black people in Vegas the assumption is that they are all ignorant. That is not the case, and the stories weren’t reported to represent that every person in Vegas was not acting a fool, it was a select group of people and a select “class” of people. Whoever disrespected Ralph Wiley, is clearly an idiot!!
March 2nd, 2007 at 3:35 pm
Larry’s problem isn’t so much shot selection as it is that the shots he selects never seem to go in. Let’s make a shot or two, partner. Practice makes perefect, or in this case… practice makes decent.
Sincerely,
Everyone who follows the Cavs
March 2nd, 2007 at 11:08 pm
The real problem with the weekend was a general disrespect for the law caused by a lack of a police presence and an excess of self-centered ideas. All of this was magnified by a city whose slogan deflects personal responsibility for any actions (i.e. ‘What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas’). It was, so to speak, the perfect storm. And apparently, the rain fell in abundance. Or so the stories would tell us (I admit I wasn’t there).
March 3rd, 2007 at 4:27 am
Right on, Scoop Jackson! Speak up on race and white men everywhere in America jump up and down, furious and frenzied. The white man can’t stand to be reminded of his own wicked behavior, past and present (and probably future, too), and the effect it’s had on his “fellow countrymen” who happen to have black skin. So deny and attack the messenger, and always deny your evil ways in spite of the facts that contradict your lies. Yeah, Brian, Scoop Jackson talks about racial inequality. Do you? Do you speak about racial injustice? But it’s best for Scoop and everyone else to be quiet and just wait until you’re ready to tackle the subject. Damn you. And since you question Scoop’s arrest numbers, the numbers he provided must be wrong. So what are the right numbers, Brian? And you saw people smoking marijuana, and talking about drugs, and you saw a woman fondled. Well, no one smokes marijuana in America, so your point there is well taken. And did you personally witness a drug transaction, Brian? If so, did you report it to authorities? If not, why? You could have been part of the solution, Brian, instead of standing there wetting your pants and just waiting until you could get to your keyboard so you could cry all about it later. You saw a woman fondled? Again, why didn’t you do something about it? You’re all courage and heart and indignation when Scoop Jackson defends his folk, but when it comes to defending the law in real time, well, not so courageous then. Typical.
March 3rd, 2007 at 10:00 am
Scoop is the reason black folks continually deal with the proverbial stereotypes. He’s an apologist who only wishes to blame “the man” for the ills that plague the black community. Thanks for your column setting him straight.
March 3rd, 2007 at 11:36 am
As a lifelong resident of Las Vegas I felt compelled to defend my city after reading all of your posts.
Las Vegas has the reputation of a lawless place. We promote the town by our “Whatever happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas” campaign. So I feel it is right that Vegas shoulder some blame for promoting actions that might not happen elsewhere. But Vegas doesn’t promote the kinds of activities that happened All-Star weekend.
I was on the Strip Saturday night and I know many people that work on the Strip. The stories I have heard from them all make me sick. Metro and the city has handled large crowds before. We regularly draw 300,000 people or more for New Year’s with little major problems. The difference this time around was clearly the individuals that visited. They had no respect for the law, or for anyone else.
In 31 years of living here I have never heard stories like I heard from that weekend. Each hotel has armed security and Metro was out in full force. But what happened couldn’t be controlled without the use of violence. We deal with tourists from all over the world. We have over 10 million visitors a year. But the vast majority of those visitors want to come here and have a good time. They don’t embrace lawlessness and truth be told the hip hop gangsta lifestyle.
That was the main problem. It doesn’t matter what you do when you have people that aren’t afraid of the consequences of their actions. Let’s be honest. Vegas holds more world class events than any city in this country. There have never been any major problems in this city when it comes to events except for this one. Does anyone question why that is?
Las Vegas has 1.8 million residents. 7000 people a month move here. It might surprise you to know that we have schools, churches, museums, parks, and good people that live here. We do have problems like every other city though. One of those problems shouldn’t be the NBA. In polls since that weekend most residents don’t want the NBA to return. We’re just fine without it.
March 3rd, 2007 at 2:54 pm
Oh, give it a rest, Tom. What is Brian Windhorst, the Beacon Journal’s resident confidential informant? Yeah, ‘ol Cowboy Windhorst would have solved the world’s drug problems if he would have only had the courage to tattle on Snoop Dogg. Instead, the coward simply looked the other way. The wimp.
And please, arrest numbers mean nothing if the people who otherwise should have been arrested were not. There is a guy here that constantly uses worthless, albeit very creative NBA stats to attempt to prove a nonsensical invalid point. But statistics often lie. They can be shaped to mean whatever you want them to mean. Robert Jackson is simply doing the same. Just sticking it back to the white man. (I refuse to call him “Scoop” unless I’m describing the butter pecan ice cream located inside his head.)
March 3rd, 2007 at 7:16 pm
“Thank God I live in Cleveland”????? I am your average white guy who lives in Milwaukee and started recently having to travel to Cleveland on business 1 to 2 times per month. I can walk in Downtown Milwaukee feeling relatively safe. But my first trip to Cleveland, I was hit on for money more than my entire life in Milwaukee, and one of them was strapped with a 9mm!!!! Also, on that same trip, I wore a Bengals t-shirt one night and nearly got my a$$ kicked in every public place I went that night!! I mean, in Milwaukee, peaople can wear Bears stuff without getting hassled like I was. Thank God I figured out a way of staying inside the Tower City Center the entire week I am there on business in the future. And another thing, try going to the food court at Tower City after 5pm, it looks like all of the city’s gangbangers are there all strapped any ready to bust as they say! I hope my company moves out of Cleveland before I get killed! Downtown Cleveland is the toilet of the midwest!!!!!!!!!!!
March 3rd, 2007 at 9:34 pm
Shut up and get back to work! Don’t make me kick you again!
Seriously, as a resident of Vegas (Henderson, as it were), I wouldn’t even go down to the Strip after the first night of the NBA being in town. It was just insanity. None of the locals wanted to be down there.
And Cleveland the best place in the nation? If not for Gary Indiana and maybe Detroit, Cleveland would win armpit of America, hands down.
March 4th, 2007 at 12:56 am
great stuff
March 4th, 2007 at 7:05 am
Tha Fu in Milwaukee? Arent you the guy who escaped from jeffrey Dahmer, running naked, half dazed down some street?
March 4th, 2007 at 7:16 am
And scotty:
what are you talking about? a couple of columns come out 3-4 days after las vegas is ravaged by lawlessness and chaos and you think that’s timely and appropriate? Where was the actual reporting? Im not talking about columns from internet bloggers. There were hundreds of reporters, ostensibly, in Las Vegas all weekend. Not a single story from saturday or sunday detailing what was going on. Again, I dont blame them. When your laptop is shorted out by bong water and you wake up every day at noon with your pants around your ankles, bleary eyed, and a jackhammer going off in your brain, it’s hard to make deadlines.
March 4th, 2007 at 8:03 am
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/story/500817p-422322c.html
March 4th, 2007 at 1:06 pm
The issue regarding the lawlessness that took place in Vegas has nothing to do with the city. As a life long resident, their has never been any problems with any of the multitude of events that the city hosts. Keeping that in mind, Las Vegas is the most popular tourist destination in the United States. Last night I saw UNLV play at the Thomas and Mack. Their were 18,000 fans at the game. Their were no incidents of crime or any thug like behavior. It was a great time to be had in a fun city with a surging NCAA basketball team. Regardless of how you want to sugar coat who was responsible for the violence in Las Vegas over All Star weekend in was gangsta thugs. It wasnt the tens of thousands of conventioneers who were in town for the garment convention.. or the thousands of tourists who were celebrating Chinese New years… It was gangsta thugs. Calling it the hip hop Woodstock is a dead on accurate descrption. The N.B.A needs to clean up their act. I heard that New Orleans is going to host the next All Star game.. Maybe they should bring in the National Guard.
March 5th, 2007 at 9:31 am
Listen, let’s put away our “We are the world” violins, and stop singing Kumbaya for a minute, and call a spade a spade… this is coming from a black man! Did anyone actually expect anything different by putting NBA All Star weekend in Las Vegas? The bottom line is, that of all the pro sports leagues the NBA is the one that identifies with Hip Hop culture the most. What comes with that is the “Gang Bangin’” undercurrent that pervades the culture. So by having the all start weekend in Las Vegas of all places, you undoubtedly will attract a vast cross section of this negative element. The real story is why Las Vegas was not better prepared by providing more security, and authorities, which would’ve clearly been a deterrent for a lot of the madness. As far as Scoop’s column, I agreed with some of it, and disagreed with a lot of it, as I do a lot of his column’s. That’s the beauty of it all, we’re not supposed to agree with everything, that would just be lame. I’ll give you this though, at least Scoop is a voice and representative of American Black culture in the sports media. Many times that “voice” is needed in the predominantly “WASP” world of the sports media, that many times misunderstands our culture, and base many of their columns on prejudices that need to be called out!
March 5th, 2007 at 4:41 pm
I have a question for everyone that says Las vegas needed to be “better prepared”. Las Vegas hosts arguably one of the biggest parties on New Year’s Eve in the country. Over 300,000 people are on the Strip every year for that event. Over 500,000 were here in 2000. More events are held here every day than most places in a month. Why is it that Vegas is equipped for all of these events and was not for the NBA All-Star weekend?
Politicians and the police can’t come out and say the real reason. But we know what it was. It was young people that embraced the worst aspects of hip hop culture, and yes most of them were African-American. That’s not racist, it’s the truth.
March 6th, 2007 at 12:31 pm
A Bengals shirt in downtown Cleveland? What did you expect, a group hug?
March 23rd, 2007 at 4:40 pm
I was just in Shittown, er, I mean Cleveland this week again on business. One day I wore a Favre jersey after work and STILL got shit from your lovely gangsta homeboys! Bengals shirt, Packers jersey doesn’t matter. A white person in Downtown Cleveland has a target on their back! Are there ANY people that actually live in Cleveland that actually have a job and don’t have to ask people standing outside of Tower City for money every 5 minutes!!!!!! I can’t believe the NCAA chose this toilet as their Women’s Final Four site this year! And I can’t believe the Drew Carey Show was really filmed in Cleveland. I didn’t see one gangsta on that show ever! No wonder Major League was filmed in MILWAUKEE for the baseball scenes instead of Cleveland.