Sharing the punching bag
Posted December 22nd, 2006 by bwindhorst
In-san-i-ty n. : Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
So the Cavs got a little red-faced by the Pistons last night. It is nothing to get worked up over, it is the same stuff I’ve been bellowing for weeks about. Bad offense, the toughening of the schedule, etc., etc.
By the way, was I the only one to notice that Larry Hughes hurt his ankle again? I guess so since no one mentioned it in any story and it isn’t on any message board I’ve seen.
Anyway, What seems to be especially painful is that the Cavs had the exact same issues last May. But, then why would anything be different, it is the same team. I was impressed with some facets of the new offense early on, but it has dried up. I wrote about it weeks ago here. If they don’t make jumpers or get a bunch of fastbreak points, they don’t have much of a chance.
So, as I said before, I have nothing new to add at this point, because nothing has changed. So I will empty my mail here:
Jerry from Georgia writes:
Coach Brown, a good guy who keeps his cool and has the Cavs hustling, is being out-coached play after play on the offensive end. I am not an expert, but I have coached some basketball in various venues, and can see obvious things. While the Nets and Pistons were isolating and spacing such that passes and drives to inside people would appear with patience, the Cavs would be bunched up time after time leaving no space for passes or drives, and allowing defenses to easily cover players. The only things this type of offense does are ensure three point attempts and second chances on the offensive boards. I think we will find the Cavs high in both categories, especially second attempt put backs.
BW: Mike is an excellent defensive coach. His weakness has so far proven to be his offense.
Steve from Arizona says:
Once again you mention no productivity from Hughes ,Wild Thing and each game it is different except for Snow. Is it such a given that he will never produce offensively that you never mention it.This puts a burden on everybody to make the differenceup.Once again in any other city the beat writer would be all over this obvious flaw with Snow .His age and lack of production are going to age LB a lot quicker.If you do not guard gibson he will dunk on you. If you took the plus minus of Snow verses all the point guards he played against and it would be staggering. I know he is a nice guy but these are facts not personal attacks.
BW: Yes, but I didn’t mention the zero production from Donyell Marshall, Daniel Gibson and Damon Jones either. I agree Snow is a siutational defender at best at this point in his career. But he is still the team’s best point guard other than LeBron.
James A. says:
Larry, Larry, Larry…why don’t you just pack it in and go home? Every time someone passes you the ball doesn’t necessarily mean you have to shoot it right away. Come on, dawg. Drive and dish. Drive and shoot. Pass it back out. One thing has been proven through the years, you are not a jump shooter. Play to your strengths. Otherwise, those low FG% shots are going to take the Cavs down. I’d rather have Pavs out there shooting where you typically shoot. And another thing is pretty evident, you certainly can not make a basket with a guy in front of you out there. Pump fake, take a couple of steps closer, and then take a clear shot at the basket.
BW: Hughes’ jumper was pretty good in the preseason and before he was injured, in fact I think he was shooting like 45 or 47 percent. But since he’s returned it has been flat except for one game. He seems to be looking for it rather than finding other ways.
Tim from Cleveland adds:
The Cavs 4th qtr performance last night against Detroit was about as pathetic as any nba performance I have seen, and we’ve seen some bad basketball. LeBron needs to take some blame for the apathy of the team. And, I especially noticed this last night, and kind of had an epiphany, but he is as much to blame for the offensive ineptness as anyone else. When he gets the ball, he tends to hold it forever and wait for a double-team to come so he can pass, or the shot clock runs out and he jacks up a bad shot. He doesn’t come off screens decisively, he can’t post up smaller players and he basically slows everything down when he gets the ball. Now, most of the players around him stink and that’s a big problem, but he needs to mature as a player as well.
BW: I think you are right to a degree. Not all of it is his fault, he has to be put in a position to be successful.
Ben from Ravenna writes:
When the Cavaliers hired Dan Rosenbaum (stats consultant) I thought they were taking a major step forward in player and team evaluations. However they don’t seem to be using him at all. All the numbers point to Snow and Gooden being a horrible combination in the starting lineup. Snow starting is worse on the offense and defense believe it or not. Gooden when matched with Jones is extremely effective.
BW: I have to admit, I’ve seen the numbers and I can’t defend it at this juncture.
December 22nd, 2006 at 12:34 pm
Someone needs to tell Eric Snow that it is not against the rules to use your left hand. One thing he has done better this year is drive to the basket but he refuses to use his right hand and the defense knows that. It is painful to watch.
Brian said it best when he mentioned Snow being a situation defender. He is probably the best defender the Cavs have. However, why not start Gibson instead. Since the problem is offense this year it certainly could not hurt.
December 22nd, 2006 at 2:40 pm
i’m guessing it’s piling on time and of course, when you’re losing EVERYONE and EVERYTHING looks bad (ask the heat and bulls during the first 2 weeks of the season)but the one thing that REALLY is beginning to get under my skin is when people and media-types complain that the cavs take jumpers in the 4th qtr YET they ignore when the other team takes ‘em and makes’ em! let’s take the last two games, for example. did, or did not, vince carter take what would be considered “bad” jumpers by the all the nba “genius” pundits in the 4th qtr.? yet, he made them and his team won. now, let’s move on to last’s night game, shall we? mr. billups is shooting ONE FOR NINE, YET makes 3 pretty tough jumpers in the 4th qtr. and his teams goes on a run to seal the win.
during the game, when these things were happening i turned to my friend each time and said, “gee according to all the cav critics, those are terrible shots that one shouldn’t settle for in the 4th qtr.!”
so, yes, i am getting some shite off my chest but the FACT is if you MAKE jump shots, you LOOK great. and, conversely, if you DON’T make them, you look TERRIBLE. simple, ain’t it? cuz guess what? no matter how much all of us want LBJ to keep driving against 3 and 4 defenders EVERYTIME down court, it is NOT EFFECTIVE!
i am not making any points here that are revolutionary YET when every i read “analysis” of the games, it invariably FAILS to mention the GOOD shooting by the opponent when it counts, but ALAWAYS faults the cavs for taking jump shots. well, hello! basketball’s been around for some time and despite what people like riley and popovich (and i assuming brown) think defense CANNOT negate good offense. it is NOT like baseball. cuz there will ALWAYS be open jump shots availble no matter who you are playing against and the SIMPLE fact is that we don not have many players who can hit jump shots with regularity. period.
oh, and note to terry pluto and all the “Z is our panacea.” types: guess again! he is NOT! he is playing as well as he is going to play and getting him 5 more shots a game is not going to solve our offensive woes. need i remind mr. pluto and others that trhis 7′3″ giant was shooting in the LOW 40’s not but 3 weeks ago? so, please stop that argument…oh, and i also don’t wanna hear from tucker or anyone else about how ferry screwed things up. the fact is that paxson’s contracts on snow and newble have hamstrung us FAR more than the Z and hughes signings. both those players have been effective for the most part. as have jones and donyell, while snow and newble almost LITERALLY cannot play nba basketball right now. snow and his contract are an albatross that i fear may drag this team down to the bottom…
December 22nd, 2006 at 8:59 pm
Jeez kj, relax. You make some valid points. But this is a comments section of a sports blog. You and everyone else is entitled to their opinion, Tucker included. I even sort of miss Tucker posting, he at least had a sense of humor (albeit sort of strange)
December 22nd, 2006 at 9:12 pm
You’re the beat reporter Brian. If you *think* Larry hurt his ankle again, it’s your job to go find out how bad it is.
Presumably it wasn’t too bad since he played on it, but we’ll see Saturday night?
December 23rd, 2006 at 2:39 am
Funny stuff
http://cavaliers.mostvaluablenetwork.com/columns/separated-at-birth/
December 23rd, 2006 at 6:18 am
KJ, read all the cold hard facts about all those jumpers below. And Jon, Hughes did hurt his ankle and there’s an update in there as well:
http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/16305777.htm
December 23rd, 2006 at 7:27 am
sorry bri, but those “cold, hard facts” are incomplete at best. for example, you say in the article that “The proof comes when looking at their scoring in the paint; they’ve averaged just 30.6 points from the key during the losing streak.” but the actual “proof” is number of shots ATTEMPTED in the paint, not number of shots MADE. because if your assertion is correct, then the number of attempts outside of the paint will be significantly greater.
again, this saying “they’re taking too many jumpers” is a strawman, i think. you yourself have actually now amended your description of them from “jumpers” to “long jumpers.” so, to use an analogy from another sport, you’re moving the goalposts a bit.
really, we need to see shot charts for both teams to make an informed analysis. does anybody know if that is avaible on like nba.com?
and J., i didn’t say tucker couldn’t post ever. all i was saying was i don’t wanna hear from him(or anyone else, for that matter), as he seems to do EVERYTIME he posts now, about how ferry screwed this roster. until all remnants of paxson’s roster/contract disasters have disappeared, there is no sense in talking about ferry. he has done an admirable job considering…
and yeah, sorry about the length of my last comment. i had to get that off my chest.
i thank you all for indulging me! and happy holidays to all as well, esp. you brian. i may disagree with you from time to time but you do a helluva job. but you don’t need me to tell you that…
December 23rd, 2006 at 9:55 am
I’m not as impressed with Ferry as you are KJ. He didn’t have to spend the cap space he had and several opportunities have passed him by since.
The most obvious case in point is also the most recent: Why on earth wouldn’t the Cavs be interested in Allen Iverson, considering the team’s terrible backcourt and spiritless approach to the game?
If the Cavs had some of that cap space left, or had signed tradeable players with what they had, they could have easily put a better package together than the players/picks the Sixers received.
Unfortunately, it looks to me like Ferry thinks the roster is perfect, and he seems more than ready to blame Brown’s coaching for the lack of offensive production. Worse yet, the local media buys that crock.
December 23rd, 2006 at 12:25 pm
I fail to understand how Paxson’s bad deals can, in any way, shape or form, be compared to Ferry’s. Blaming Ira Newble’s contract as a rallying point for 2006-2007 is ridiculous.
Ferry’s extraordinarily poor judgment has locked the roster as tight as Embry’s two multi-year signings of John Williams and of Ferry himself. Ferry can’t possibly be dense enough to think the roster is perfect, and to that extent, I disagree with Larry’s post above. But Ferry can’t make a deal when some lumbering white giant is eating a sizable percentage of the cap for years to come, and no other team is willing to eat the burden of those years. It’s not just the bloated salaries Ferry gave the free agents, salaries of which some team might otherwise take, it’s the plain fact they’re bad multi-year deals. Combined with Hughes’ salary and wispy 95-year-old woman’s body, as well as Ferry’s other poor free agent deals, it’s no wonder James has to do everything and will have to do everything.
I don’t understand this entirely nonsensical blaming of Brown for offensive woes. What is this cosmic power that Ferry seems to have on the local media? Correct me if I’m wrong, but Brown didn’t sign Ilgauskas through the next century, nor did Brown leave the point guard position vacant.
Probably the only piece Ferry can move to another team is Gooden. I’m not sure what he can get for him, but even if it’s for a Firestone retread like a Brevin Knight-quality guy or something like that, it would still make the team better than it is now.
December 23rd, 2006 at 12:28 pm
Even when they were 8-2 or whatever I was complaining that this team was apathetic at best and that LeBron looked disinterested.
Anyone watching closely in those first ten games or so could see where we were going, and where we were going is where we are right now.
December 23rd, 2006 at 12:36 pm
come on, larry. you are way smarter than that. first of all, how in heaven’s name could ferry have made cap space with newble’s and snow’s contracts? cuz god knows NO ONE would take them in a trade this last year or so…
and really your logic is very faulty in respect to thinking that the cavs could have “easily put a better package together” for the sixers. why? because the sixers wanted picks and expiring contracts of which we have neither of at this point! there is NO WAY the cavs coulda been in the sweepstakes for AI. none. and it’s not ferry’s fault really for that.
and again, larry, i like you but for you to say he ” didn’t have to spend the cap space he had” is revsionist history or just plain crazy. he absolutely HAD to do so because EVERY media outlet AND fan would have CRUCIFIED him if he sat on cap space when he had it! the fact is that marshall, jones and hughes WERE and ARE upgrades to what the cavs had previously on their roster. the fact that the cavs record improved AND they went deeper in the playoffs than they had since the 90’s, PROVES that point.
it seems like a classic case of “damned if ya do, damned if ya don’t” to me. besides, ferry has made smart moves like the flip trade and the draft this year. and until he can jettison the paxson-era mistakes, we cannot truly judge his tenure as a GM. unsatisfying? sure but fair. and you can’t let brown off the hook, either.
December 23rd, 2006 at 12:44 pm
tucker, if you don’t understand how newble and snow’s contract effect the current season and ferry’s ability to make or not make deals, well…
and yes, we all agree that Z is a underachiver but typically, you are failing to recall that LBJ HIMSELF DEMANDED they re-sign him. would you suggest ferry NOT listen to LBJ?
really, your arguments are are bordering on the silly here.
December 23rd, 2006 at 1:08 pm
Does anybody truly buy the local media’s baloney that James himself “demanded” they re-up Ilgauskas? Please.
If you want to blame Paxson/Gund for anything about the state of the current roster, then perhaps the only valid point is the one point nobody mentions. That is, Boozer has indeed developed into a helluva player.
December 23rd, 2006 at 1:47 pm
what proof do you have that the story reported about LBJ wanting Z re-signed is “baloney?” please put up or shut up.
the fact is that paxson, not ferry, signed snow to his current contract and furthermore, that contract is an albatross AND snow is by far the worst player in the cavs current rotation. so, how is that ferry’s fault? or do you somehow think ferry should be able to trade a person who’s play AND contract make him virtually untradeable?
December 23rd, 2006 at 5:04 pm
Snow and Newble are Paxson’s legacy, KJ, but Ferry did have almost $30 million in cap space to work with two summers ago. That cap space plus LeBron would seemingly make running the Cavs a cake walk.
Excepting Illgauskus (who is now generally regarded as a bad signing anyway) Ferry signed players who had quickly worn out their welcome in previous cities (that includes Hughes). Unfortunately, Ferry signed them to multi-year contracts and they are all virually untradeable until they reach the last year of their contracts.
Ferry could have used that cap space for trades instead, maybe picking up a premium talent or two rather than a bunch of journeymen.
Iverson was an example. I think the Sixers would have taken a bunch of cap space plus Verajao and Gibson or Shannon Brown over what they wound up getting from the Nuggets.
I think that trade would have made the Cavs the favorites in the East.
Ferry’s made a couple decent moves and drafting Gibson might be his salvation, but for the most part he’s lacked imagination and foresight.
December 24th, 2006 at 2:35 pm
Point of order, Larry Brown signed Eric Snow to that deal. Paxson just traded for it. Proceed…
December 25th, 2006 at 12:20 pm
“Cavs: Snow not the only issue” was a good article with use of some 82 games stats not often studied or cited.
A slow offense can be too slow and have costs but it can also be a part of the defensive strategy too- slow game, players know when the ball is reversing and should be ready to retreat (some of whom have been able to rest a bit on offense). Maybe Cavs overdo it but I would think this was part of the design too.
Nate McMillan and others talk about get it early or get it late. Get it late I think may be overpreached not fully recognizing the downside of low percentage jumpers. Maybe it tends to wear the defense out some over time. But not if it is predictable.
December 25th, 2006 at 6:03 pm
tim c.,
that makes paxson even MORE of a fool for TRADING for such a contract!!!
December 28th, 2006 at 12:26 pm
So Ferry should’ve let Z go right? So that would’ve meant that the only two teammates LeBron had that were worth a damn (Boozer and Z) would’ve not been resigned and would’ve left for nothing. Ya, that would’ve been sweet.
Ya, Z is overpaid. But guess what, find me a quality NBA center who is underpaid? Big men get overpaid in the NBA. The Cavs could be doing a lot worse (hell the Nuggets signed Nene this past summer and are already trying to unload him).
As for Hughes and Marshall… I’m not sure what else Ferry could’ve done. Both Redd and Allen could’ve gotten more money by staying. Like $30 million more. The Cavs didn’t really have a shot. And Joe Johnson? He wanted to be the star of his own team and even left Steve Nash (about as unselfish as you can get), who thinks he would’ve played second fiddle to LeBron?
And say the Cavs do pursue Johnson and sign him, maybe the Suns match because the Cavs had zilch to trade (unlike the Hawks who gave up Diaw). After the waiting is done, Hughes is signed elsewhere and we’re stuck watching Ira Newble start every night… fantastic.
Ya, the team needs some tweaks. Snow should be a defensive backup right now. But there aren’t exactly a lot of options out there right now. I’d rather them take their time and try to work things out this year instead of making some short term fix that could hamper them down the road (which is what happened with Snow, the Cavs couldn’t depend of Jeff McInnis, so they had to get another veteran in there. It worked, McInnis imploded and Snow kept the ship pretty stable, but now he’s a burden).
December 29th, 2006 at 2:42 am
My point was that Ferry shouldn’t have felt compelled to use all the cap space money on free agents.
It seems to me that pretty good players get traded for cap space nearly every year while building a team in one summer, based on who happens to be available on the free agent market, results in a patchwork roster.
The Cavs are a perfect example. That summer, Ferry signed probably the two best 3-point shooters available on the open market, the best big guard who would sign with the team, and one of the best “classic” center types.
Unfortunately, none of the players are all that valuable, even if they were the best “available” options. Now, when push comes to shove, the Cavs pretty much depend on LeBron and a bunch of overpaid journeymen.
I guess the obvious litmus test lies in whether it would be better to have the $30 million or so in cap space or Z, Damon Jones, Larry Hughes and Donyell Marshall. To my thinking, the Cavs are worse off today than they were at the start of that summer.
December 29th, 2006 at 11:23 am
larry, to be fair, ben makes a lot of good points and you still have failed to address my point of how could ferry NOT have signed those people?? what do you HONESTLY think would have been the reaction of the fans and media if ferry said “ehhh, i’m not gonna sign anybody this summer and just save my cap space. sure, i know we haven’t been to the playoffs in like 8 years and that i have a young superstar who is looking for signs that this franchise will do what it takes to win, but i’d rather wait and see what happens for a couple years before i commit to anything.” come on larry, you’re MUCH smarter than that.
at some point a gm has to make decisions and put it on the line and commit to some players. ferry did and so far he has a 50- win season and a fairly deep playoff run to show for it. if one steps back, that’s really not too bad, is it? does he have much flexibilty? no, and i suppose we can fault him for that but it’s still kind of early to write this team off, no? in fact, their defensive numbers are better than last years and that is a BIG indicator of playoff success…
December 30th, 2006 at 4:23 am
You’re right KJ, in that Ferry probably felt he needed(and maybe was told) to make an immediate splash through free agency.
He didn’t have to spend it all, however. Or he could have made a trade or two rather than limit himself to the players who were free agents.
In any case, that was about 18 months ago and from where I sit the roster could use a little shakeup. The fact that Snow is still starting is the most obvious indicator of that.
So when the team is still going through listless spells and losing to pretty bad teams, and Ferry says he doesn’t want to disrupt the roster or change a team chemistry that seems pretty flawed, it grates.
December 30th, 2006 at 8:20 am
larry, understood. and your point about when this team struggles is dead on; it is VERY grating to watch someone like snow out there, no doubt. i share your frustration. in fact, i think all cavs fans do…
December 30th, 2006 at 11:54 am
It’s a lot easier for Ferry to assert that he doesn’t want to disrupt the roster and/or change team chemistry than simply be honest and admit that he locked himself into a salary cap problem with run-of-the-mill players for the duration of James’ contract extension.
Out of curiosity, what else do you expect him to say?
December 30th, 2006 at 2:23 pm
I want it leaked to the press that the Cavs are furiously trying to pick up someone like Iverson, when someone like Iverson becomes available.
Maybe a rumor like that might light a fire under players on the current roster. Or at least let fans know that members of the current management team watch the games from time to time.