And your attempt to turn Jesus into a Nazi isn't very persuasive either. Jesus never invaded Poland.

If it's true…and it is….that blind pigs find the occasional acorn….then it is also true that any organization of people can stumble upon a righteous action or thought once in a while….even though the trend of that organization is normally destructive. Nazis, obviously, had an evil trend going on…but I'm sure they did the occasional 'good' thing.

King….your comprehension of Jesus in relationship to Old Testament Judaism needs a bit of work. Love god, love the neighbor. That's Christianity….that's also shorthand for the 10 Commandments.

Forgiveness was encouraged by the O.T. law….and was depicted regularly in Temple rituals. Jesus preached to Jews. Jesus taught his parables to Jews. He was not ecumenicallly minded, his loyalty was to Judaism. Perhaps you missed Matthew 25, and the book of Revelation…where the loving, peaceful, forgiving Jesus returns to kill and destroy the work of unbelievers.

The New Testament writings are from a smallish sect of Jews who were followers of a radical teacher. The Gospels were primarily circulated to combat the teaching of pharisaical Judaism about the fledgling group. Much of the New Testament has to do with early church organization, rules and regulations, etc. The entire 1st century ordeal was an inter-tribal battle among Jews…..a religious schism of small proportions.

Yes, later when Rome adapted the new "hero worship" religion to fit the state, Christianity became widespread…but by then, it had been twisted and distorted beyond any credible recognition…..like it remains today.

As for saying Jesus' words were advocated by Judaism (Old Testament), I'm again surprised that a former Reverend like yourself would say such a thing. All you have to do is read the Old Testament vs. the New Testament to see the difference. It's immense, and Jesus was the difference. The Old Testament is 'fight your enemies and fear a vengeful God.' The New Testament is 'love your neighbor,' and 'let he who is without sin cast the first stone.' Nothing of value ? Hardly.

"..it's no coincidence that western civilization advanced the quickest, being rooted in the Judeo-Christian ethic.."

Of course that cuts both ways. The Dark Ages, quite a long stretch, came about BECAUSE of Christianity.

What liberals claim they stand for would be identical if Jesus never existed.

And to those who mistakenly throw up the "anger" bullsh*t….

First…Jacquie said this…." well, I am angry also." How in the hell, then, is she saying anything different from me? She's not….I know her….she's a good one.

Second….if the Irish Catholic molesters and their co-conspirators' story doesn't anger you…then you are beyond hope. Seriously. EVERYONE should be outraged.

Third…."It strikes me that many vocal atheists such as the Reverend have constructed their philosophy out of bitter anger rather than rational thought. They're just as delusional as the religious nuts they hate so much, really."

REALLY? I mean, really? Pointing out that a conspiracy to cover up a massive rape of children operation by church employees is abhorrent….is not "rational?"
What would be rational? Wouldn't it be "delusional" if someone criticized the criticism of such vulgar behavior?

Finally….I've made myself perfectly clear on this material. Just as I don't criticize folks who buy health insurance but instead the for-profit hellions who sell it…..so too Catholicism. And my goodness…..who in their right mind could defend such an obviously corrupt and unworthy outfit as the Catholic Church has proven itself to be? When evil makes itself known, just as the neo-con hero, W., used to say…..you are either on the side of the evil or you are against it.

The folks who implicate all of Islam with the actions of a few extremist nuts are the same folks who refuse to blame Catholicism for it's systemic involvement in some of the worst crimes against children ever recorded. That only makes sense if those folks are "delusionally" biased.

I'm not in any organized church these days, but I'm a little surprised that you would say there is "nothing of value" there, even being an atheist. Is there nothing of value in the words and life of Jesus Christ ? I find tons of value there, lots of insight into humanity, and truly revolutionary words being spoken that have impacted western civilization immensely to this day, 2000 years later. I'd also say it's no coincidence that western civilization advanced the quickest, being rooted in the Judeo-Christian ethic. In fact, lots of what liberals claim they stand for comes from the words of Jesus – helping the poor, non-violence, equal rights, etc.

As for religion/spirituality, people are entitled to their own beliefs. I don't care, as long as your religious belief/non-belief doesn't trample on mine. It's a free country. If you can look at all the astounding complexity of creation, the mind-boggling odds against the very possibility of our existence, and then determine that it's all meaningless and random, so be it. I couldn't disagree more, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

I also have to agree with larry about what Jacquie said. Anger at particular persons or institutions is a very poor basis on which to base your beliefs. People always haven been, and always will be fallible, thus institutions erected by people are also fallible. The life of Jesus serves as a very good testament to that.

Reporting on how an organized church hierarchy covered up for dozens and dozens of monster employees who abused children is…..wait for it…."bashing Catholics?" Please.

bzzzp….we'll get back to this material again later…I promise. Just one note. I didn't have a bad experience with religion….I systematically unpacked religion one layer at a time, and found that the suitcase carried nothing of value. It was quite an experience, but not a bad one….and the further away I get from religion, the more certain I am that my unpacking was done accurately, fairly and according to the available facts. When I began my journey through religion, I had no expectations that I would be throwing it all in the dumpster before I was through. It even came as a surprise to me. More later.