Major Nidal Malik Hasan….the Ft. Hood mass shooter…..will, rightfully, be held accountable for his gruesome and insane actions in killing 13 and wounding 30. What Hasan did was inexcusable, and cannot be rationalized.
Hasan, as everyone in the world knows now, was a devout Muslim. Many conservative Americans, and some not-so-conservative, think Hasan's act was an act of Islamic jihad. Many conservatives in America have used the opportunity of Hasan's heinous crime to encourage more profiling of American Muslims…..and not just those in the military, but all Muslims and Muslim organizations. A similar ethos prevailed after the 9-11 tragedy.
One of the memes that has been circulating since the Ft. Hood massacre concerns itself with a characterization of Major Hasan by one of his classmates……
While studying for a masters degree in public health in 2007, Hasan used a presentation for an environmental health class to argue that Muslims were being targeted by the U.S. anti-terror campaign, said Val Finnell, a classmate. “He was very vocal about the war, very upfront about being a Muslim first and an American second,” said Finnell, 41, a preventive medicine doctor in Los Angeles, in an interview yesterday.
Now…keep the above in mind as I move on to the heart of today's post…..
Rhode Island's top Roman Catholic leader has asked Rep. Patrick Kennedy (D-RI and son of the late Ted Kennedy) to stop taking Communion over his support for abortion rights, the diocese said Sunday.
In a statement issued Sunday, Providence Bishop Thomas Tobin said he told Kennedy in February 2007 that it would be "inappropriate" for him to continue receiving the fundamental Catholic sacrament, "and I now ask respectfully that you refrain from doing so."
This past Sunday, Kennedy made public Tobin's request…..
In an interview published Sunday, Patrick Kennedy told the Providence Journal that Tobin had barred him from receiving communion and instructed priests in the diocese not to administer the sacrament "because of the positions that I've taken as a public official."
Why Congressman Kennedy chose to make the Bishop's 2007 order to priests excluding Kennedy from "the sacrament" is summed up by CNN's "Vatican analyst", John Allen….
"The Catholic bishops have been fairly successful, at least to date, at putting abortion at the center of the debate over health care reform, and that obviously has generated some resentment from people who don't share their views," Allen said.
Bishop Tobin was a guest on Chrissy Matthews "Softball" program last night. I took notes.
Matthews, a Catholic, to his credit, pressured Bishop Tobin about the secular nature of our U.S. government, reminding Tobin of JFK's (our first Catholic president) clear statement in 1960….
"I believe in an America that is officially neither Catholic, Protestant nor Jewish. Where no public official either requests or accepts instructions on public policy from the Pope, the National Council of Chruches or any other ecclesiastical source, where no religious body seeks to impose it's will, directly or indirectly, upon the general populace, or the public acts of it's officials."
Bishop Tobin responded this way….
"What we're trying to do…is have Catholics who are in political office be faithful to the dictates of the church…..the teachings of the church."
Responding to JFK's words, Tobin said…"I suppose there's different ways of approaching that, but the point is, that any Catholic in public office, his first commitment has to be to his faith…."
Translation: Catholic public office holders are to put Catholicism first, America second.
In 21st century America, unfortunately, Bishop Tobin's sentiment is not an outlier. Many evangelical Christian leaders instruct their flocks with the same line of "thinking." Many religious "teachers" point to the 10 Commandments, reminding that the first four commandments about serving only Yahweh come first….for a reason. Serve God first, all else is secondary. That's exactly what Bishop Tobin is saying also applies to America's elected officials.
Now the questions….
How is what Bishop Tobin said any different from what Major Hasan allegedly said about Islam?
If American Muslims think similarly to what the Muslim Hasan allegedly said…..Islam first, America second…..and are, therefore, a potential threat to the U.S. deserving of special watchdogging by law enforcement because of it……wouldn't consistency demand that Bishop Tobin and American Catholics who think like Tobin, are deserving of special watchdogging by law enforcement as well?
And if not……why not?
{ 23 comments… read them below or add one }
Funny rev,the God first thing was held by the Founding Father much to the chagrin of the progressives/liberals in the dem party. Dems Progressive/liberal religion is first America second shouldn't they be watched too? Conservatives like you and me know this .Hey ABJ please hire a REAL lib too write this blog instead of this guy who is really a republican stirring up peoples emotions.
Huh?
Since you spend so much time twisting the truth, and others words, allow me to twist yours into the truth.
So you are saying that Hassan should be allowed to kill people because his Imam commands it? How about this, Hassan, voluntarily swore an allegiance to the Constitution, the Army and to defend them both and this nation, how does this square with his beliefs, well other muslims make the distinction, he should get a pass? He did not need to volunteer for the Army, if it conflicted with his beliefs, he also knew that the USA and Islam are in conflict and have been since 1803, read your history.
Or is it not ok for a private institution to deny membership to someone who does not support a basic law of that institution?
In this country, you are allowed to place religion before country, you are not allowed to place religion before the law, or before the rights to others, and that includes not to get shot.
Both these men chose to take positions that were in disagreement with their religious beliefs, they then must accept the consequences, or is that too hard for you to understand, right, there are no consequences in liberalism, except being against their lies, so how is that for consistency, make a choice and accept the consequences.
"he also knew that the USA and Islam are in conflict and have been since 1803,"
So, W. was wrong when he said America is not at war with Islam? "in conflict' suggests we at war with each other.
"In this country, you are allowed to place religion before country, you are not allowed to place religion before the law,…"
I'm not being a smartass……but isn't that a contradiction? I mean, law and country are synonymous…..at least for the purpose of our discussion here…right?
My post today has nothing whatsoever to do with justifying what Major Hasan did.
My narrow point, in case you missed it, was the "Islam first, America second" complaint against Hasan superimposed over the Bishop's counsel to American Catholic elected officials to put Catholicism first and America second. When I refer to "Islam first"…I am obviously….or it should be obvious…. not talking about killing Americans. Contrary to what conservatives think…Islam actually doesn't defend the killing of people.
If conservatives insist that Hasan's view of placing Islam before country is misguided and potentially dangerous…..then so is the Bishop's.
I hope that helps.
But Hasan thought putting Islam first meant killing Americans, Reverend. While this bishop fellow probably feels putting catholicism first means saving Americans. The parallel you're trying to make breaks down from just about any angle.
The country is not the law, except in the totalitarian workers paradise you envision, the law, is what allows the people to form a government, not the other way around.
And it is the governments job to protect the law and the people and obey the laws, but then for 70 yrs of liberalism that has not been true has it.
You probably dont even have a clue what happened in 1803, as for what Bush said, we are not at war with Islam in general only those who choose to hatred and violence as a way of life. Islam has been an active source of these types ever since it was founded, 1000yrs, of violence against the west, but then early Christianity is not totally innocent either.
The Bishop is a servant of the POPE, Hassan was a officer in the US Army, there is a difference.
@larry d "While this bishop fellow probably feels putting catholicism first means saving Americans."
Or putting Catholicism first means shuffling around pedophile priests.
I purposely left out the pedophilia problem Bishop Tobin's church has…..didn't want to confuse all the issues…..having said that, putting Catholicism first would be how the church protects it's sacrament distributing business through cradle-to-grave control mechanisms. Catholics won't like this…and I don't really care…but their objection to abortion is self-serving and not based on any morality. Catholicism grows biologically, not evangelically…..being against abortion, to the Catholic hierarchy, is an effort to grow the church business.
larry says Hasan's "Islam first" view means killing Americans. Nothing could be further from the truth. Nowhere did the classmate suggest this. larry simply made it up.
What the classmate did say was that when discussions of the "war" came up…
“He was very vocal about the war, very upfront about being a Muslim first and an American second,.."
Hasan was vocal about the war. A war where Americans are killing Muslims. Hasan didn't think a Muslim American soldier should be involved in a war where Americans were targeting Muslims. Nowhere in the classmate's words is it suggested that that meant killing Americans.
It would be like Bishop Tobin objecting to, being vocal about, abortion doctors killing Catholic embryoes and then the medical profession insisting that the Bishop be the chaplain at the abortion clinic.
And Jeff…
"1000yrs, of violence against the west, but then early Christianity is not totally innocent either."
I appreciate your trying to be fair here.
It is important to understand Blackwater's involvement in American wars against Muslim countries. Eric Prince and his mobsters are on record stating that they are doing the Lord's work by killing Muslims for Christ. Prince is a radical-nut evangelical Christian. The Onward Christian Soldiers stuff ain't so ancient.
Rumsfeld's daily Defense Dept. briefings were headed with biblical scripture…a cynical move on ole' Don's part to manipulate Bush's alleged belief in Jesus.
Chistianity, like Judaism, has a long and current history of killing.
The reason? Religion poisons everything.
Religion poisons everything, and liberalism is a religion!
I didn't claim putting Islam first necessarily means killing Americans, I said Hasan seemed to think so and the evidence is 13 dead U.S. soldiers. To deny that is pretty sorry and then trying to smear this bishop as a pedophile shows a basic lack of character. I'm embarrassed for you Reverend and you jimmy james.
No need to be embarassed. I know that jimmy and I aren't. Facts are facts.
What should be embarassing is hiding from facts….avoiding them.
There was no evidence that Hasan "seemed to think so." If there had been, he may have been stopped pre-emptively.
The Catholic Church and it's leaders, like the smug prick Bishop Tobin, show an ugly lack of morality when they cover up a ring of child molesters in their ranks for monetary reasons…..and then go on to preach morality. I have nothing against Catholic parishoners…..but when it comes to Catholic leadership…f*ck 'em.
That ain't a basic lack of character….that's telling it like it is.
Only the Reverend could find a moral equivalence between Hasan slaughtering a bunch of people and Tobin denying communion.
The Reverend hates the Catholics, along with a slew of other people. These foul-mouthed bigoted comments of his don't even merit a response anymore. It's just out-and-out hate speech.
"Reverend",
This latest post leaves me very sad, showing me how little you understand about
the Catholic faith. The receiving of Communion is not a 'right' within the church, and any person who knows themselves guilty of a sin should not receive it. There is a HUGE different between excommunication (which you seem to be attributing to the bishop here, by the reaction) and denying someone eucharist.
If a person claims to be Catholic, then one would think you would uphold and support what the Catholic church teaches. The big question here is why Patrick Kennedy considers himself Catholic?
Then…Aaron,….JFK, a Catholic, must have been wrong in what he said in the 1960 video clip, right? Kennedy said elected officials, even if Catholic, should honor our secular nation's rule of law first.
Patrick Kennedy represents his constituency, not the Pope or Catholic Doctrine. Kennedy is bound by oath to follow the laws of America and the Constitution…not some Bishop's self-righteous threat about sacrament availability. And as you know, just like with contraception, not all Catholics pass the litmus test you are proposing for all Catholics when it comes to abortion.
Now let's take this up….
"showing me how little you understand about
the Catholic faith. The receiving of Communion is not a 'right' within the church, and any person who knows themselves guilty of a sin should not receive it. There is a HUGE different between excommunication (which you seem to be attributing to the bishop here, by the reaction) and denying someone eucharist."
What does, "he who is without sin can throw the first stone", mean? By your standards, no Catholic, ever, would have the "right" to the wafer. Or was Jesus mistaken?
On the suggestion that I'm confused about sacrament denial and excommunication…..what if Kennedy, denied the grace of god in the sacrament of communion, dies with sins on his head? He's in potential trouble with god, right? Otherwise, what's the purpose of those sacraments?
My lack of understanding about Catholic teachings has…umm…taught me that Catholic Doctrine is clear here…..god's grace is available to man through the sacraments of the church and only throught those sacraments. The Eucharist is one of those sacraments. Bishop Tobin instructed priests to deny Kennedy god's grace in the Eucharist. Grace saves….even in Catholic teachings…thus Tobin was jeopardizing Kennedy's eternal welfare.
I'm sorry that you are sad about the direction this discussion has taken. The narrow point of my blog post was to point out the double standard many conservatives apply to Muslims, refusing even to recognize the very same behavior in Christians. Hasan was criticized for his thinking of "Islam first, country second." Bishop Tobin is instructing U.S. elected officials to think and vote, "Catholicism first, country second."
Seems clear to me.
A special word for King….
"Only the Reverend could find a moral equivalence between Hasan slaughtering a bunch of people and Tobin denying communion."
Did I say that Hasan's mass murdering of soldiers was, in any way, morally equivalent to Tobin denying Kennedy the Host? If so, you'll have to show it to me…and, you know, I wrote the damn thing.
See my response to Aaron about the intent of the posting.
"The Reverend hates the Catholics, along with a slew of other people. These foul-mouthed bigoted comments of his don't even merit a response anymore. It's just out-and-out hate speech."
Conservatives and, apparently, Libertarians….can't differentiate between "hate" and viewpoint. My in-laws are all Catholic…do you believe I "hate" them all? Because I point out the realities of Catholicism doesn't mean I hate Catholics anymore than pointing out the realities of Islam translates into hating Muslims.
But this one thing I know……very few of the elitists,…. bishops, cardinals, popes….believe the bull they spout everytime they don the vestments. If these religious leaders were truly moral and deserving of respect….they would have protested their own church's handling of the immoral pedophilia ring the oh-so-righteous hierarchy was covering up.
Jesus was clear. The church leaders were the most immoral of all people. He told them they were born of Satan, which in 1st century Jewish circles would be pretty close to eff-em. Think Jesus was bigoted and a hater, you know, like me? Or, perhaps you agree with the Pharisees of old that Jesus only spouted hate speech.
Saying that religion poisons everything, Hitchens' line, doesn't translate into 'people who attend church poison everything.' It's not the people who believe the religion…it's the religion. Why is that so hard to comprehend?
Rev asks, "Did I say that Hasan's mass murdering of soldiers was, in any way, morally equivalent to Tobin denying Kennedy the Host?"
And he asks it immediately after he draws the moral equalivancy, by saying this, "The narrow point of my blog post was to point out the double standard many conservatives apply to Muslims, refusing even to recognize the very same behavior in Christians. Hasan was criticized for his thinking of "Islam first, country second." Bishop Tobin is instructing U.S. elected officials to think and vote, "Catholicism first, country second.""
Did you see your words "the very same behavior in Christians ?" What's the double standard ? Tobin denied communion (and you called him a "smug prick"). Hasan slaughtered a bunch of people in cold blood (and you deny the jihadism in his act). The difference in scale is so immense that your point is absurd. There IS no double standard. There is no moral equivalency. You are a hater, plain and simple.
I've been reading your hate for a long time now. I didn't wake up this morning and decide to try a new tactic on you by calling you a hater. I've been listening to your hate speech for years. You've proven it beyond doubt. Bringing up a Catholic denying communion in the same breath with a mass murderer is a sign of an unbalanced mind, just like your "has the war begun?' post was that I mentioned on my blog. "Hater" describes you, I'm sad to say. I wish it wasn't the case. Your posts are filled with constant hateful vitriol, name-calling, and profanity directed toward anything or anyone you disagree with, to the point that it's impossible to take anything you say seriously.
And why are you quoting Jesus to me ? You don't believe in him.
My, my…
I quote Jesus because Christian readers believe in him.
Now let's unpack this….
"Did you see your words "the very same behavior in Christians ?" What's the double standard ? Tobin denied communion (and you called him a "smug prick"). Hasan slaughtered a bunch of people in cold blood (and you deny the jihadism in his act). The difference in scale is so immense that your point is absurd. There IS no double standard. There is no moral equivalency. You are a hater, plain and simple."
Reading comprehension is not your strongest suit. It takes calm discernment, I know, but I don't think that's asking too much.
"the very same behavior in Christians" is obviously in reference to the "Islam first, country second….Christianity first, country second" theme of my entire post.
When non-Christians say, "religion first, America second"….it's scandalous.
When Christians say, "religion first, America second"….it's not scandalous.
That's the double standard.
Hasan didn't think he should be involved in killing Muslims, even though a soldier….thus he was stating his "Islam first, country second" philosophy.
Tobin didn't think American elected officials should obey existing U.S. law, even though Tobin is looked up to in Catholic circles as a "Your excellency"…..thus he was stating his "Catholicism first, country second" philosophy.
That's what I said….that's what I documented. It simply takes some calm understanding while reading to…get it.
"When non-Christians say, "religion first, America second"….it's scandalous.
When Christians say, "religion first, America second"….it's not scandalous."
No, genius. What was scandalous was HASAN MURDERING A BUNCH OF PEOPLE IN THE NAME OF ALLAH. As I've been trying to point out to you, that is worlds apart from a few Catholics being denied communion. You are the one trying to draw that absurd parallel.
But I'm quite calm, thank you.
That's funny stuff King, that last comment. I know you have a good sense of humor…..that's why I love ya'.
Speaking of a sense of humor….
Did you hear about the new Obama Happy Meal being offered by McDonalds ?
You order whatever you like and the person behind you in line pays for it.
You're alright too, you crazy sob. I don't dislike people due to their politics. I just disagree.