GOP'ers Openly Defy Obama, America

Does this mean that then Senator Obama violated the Logan Act when he travelled to Iraq and held private meetings to convince the Iraqis to delay an agreement with the US on force withdrawls? Please read this report and advise: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/obama_tried_to_stall_gis_iraq_withdrawal_4TDMCIC1dvWUjF8QWt3y1N

"your position is that Republican Senators and Representatives, who, as membes of Congress, have oversight authority over US policy are now held by you to have violated the Logan Act and official US policy by meeting with the current President of Honduras, a county with which we are at peace."

First….I appreciate and respect your competitive feistiness, I do.

The official U.S. policy, (as well as all other nations), on the Honduran coup and it's new leader…is to refuse to acknowledge it as legitimate. You may disagree with that official policy….but that's what it is. The new guy has never been accepted by the U.S. as the President of Honduras….see?, that's the problem. GOP'ers know that our official policy is one of not recognizing the new guy in Honduras as the legitimate president. In doing what they did, these GOP'ers chose to recognize a leader the U.S. does not recognize as legitimate. Thus….a violation of the Logan Act.

Congress has no oversight authority over a country whose leader we do not recognize as legitimate. And their oversight authority in foreign affairs is oversight of the U.S. executive branch, not over foreign countries themselves.

So….no, it's no parody.

Reverand,

Thank you for your respect and appreciation.

Since the post is not in jest, should not your same standard be applied to the then Senator Obama when he went to Iraq and attempted to "defeat the measures of the United States" as he was running for President? Here is your second chance to answer that question?

Did Obama meet wih some unrecognized Iraqi leaders when he visited Iraq? If I'm not mistaken Obama met with U.S. troops and possibly Maliki, the recognized Iraqi leader.

Whose words are these…."defeat the measures of the United States?" A journalist's, yours, Republicans? My remembrance of the trip was his familiarizing himself with our troop situation and speaking to U.S. military and Iraqi leaders….but Obama was not in Iraq in defiance of U.S. official policy. Republicans were in Honduras in defiance of official U.S. policy.

now that an extremist whom the Reverend agrees with is in power, let's stifle free speech and arrest anyone that doesn't conform to Marxism ideals…

sounds like the Gestapo.

You're just repeating the tyrant's propaganda, Reverend. Such a referendum is unconstitutional according to their Supreme Court and legislature. The tyrant was distributing the Chavez-supplied ballots using Obama-style thugs, circumventing any kind of oversight. It would be like ACORN running a referendum on Obama getting a third term, against the will of Congress and our Supreme Court. Almost as bad as the caucuses Obama won, the elimination of votes from two major states during primaries and as undemocratic as the card check system he favors for unions.

Voter intimidation, constitutional violations, fraud, propaganda–no wonder you and Obama like that tyrant so much.

Rev,
What you left out about Honduras is that the Honduran Constitution calls for the removal of any President who tries to do away with term limits. That's exactly what Zelaya tried to do, and that's why his removal, mandated by their Constitution, was entirely proper. Obama, Chavez, Ortega, Castro, and the rest of the tinpot dictators are in the wrong.

Rev says, "I would have those 9 Republicans arrested…..and I wouldn't hesitate one second in doing it."

Yes, I'm sure you would. You may as well say you think it's illegal to oppose Obama. Yet, somehow, you voted for John Kerry for President in 2004. Kerry met with the NVA while still a member of the Armed Forces, in direct violation of the law. Now, there was a guy with no authorization. I never heard you call for his arrest. Oh, I almost forgot. Kerry's a Democrat, and laws don't apply to Democrats.

And since when are members of Congress "unauthorized citizens" as defined by the Logan Act ? Congress is a branch of the federal government. Not to mention that nobody has ever been prosecuted under the Logan Act, least of all for this, and the Logan Act has been around since 1799.

Very humorous post, Rev. I enjoy reading about your fantasy world, usually. I only hope nobody is gullible enough to buy into it.

Thanks all for supplying confirmation of my blog post.

It's commenters like this who make my job so much easier.

Consider what these commenters are saying: When Republican minority members openly defy not only the U.S. elected leadership, but the entire world's, that minority is defended to the hilt.

According to King…..9 U.S. and world defying Republicans are completely justified while the rest of the world is entirely misguided.

Shorter larry version….we're all U.S. and world defying illegal Honduran coup members now.

There was no coup, Reverend. Obama just calls it that because he wants another authoritarian dictator in power, for whatever reason. Maybe it helps with peace prizes, etc.

speaking of republicans……this from Counterpunch

http://www.counterpunch.org/rosen10082009.html

this from Counterpunch…..

A U.S. Connection
The Honduran Coup
By CONN HALLINAN

"The story most U.S. readers are getting about the coup is that Zelaya—an ally of Venezuelan President, Hugo Chavez—was deposed because he tried to change the constitution to keep himself in power.

That story is a massive distortion of the facts. All Zelaya was trying to do is to put a non-binding referendum on the ballot calling for a constitutional convention, a move that trade unions, indigenous groups and social activist organizations had long been lobbying for. The current constitution was written by the Honduran military in 1982 and the one term limit allows the brass hats to dominate the politics of the country. Since the convention would have been held in November, the same month as the upcoming presidential elections, there was no way that Zelaya could have remained in office in any case. The most he could have done was to run four years from now."

http://www.counterpunch.org/hallinan08102009.html

Thank you, walter.

In addition to the lack of sources or verifiable data in the article, this part seems odd:

"Conn Hallinan can be reached at: ringoanne@sbcglobal.net"

What kind of journalist uses an email handle like ringoanne? Is Conn a Beatles and Anne of Green Gables fan or something?

Rev,
I didn't hear any rebuttal from you. I graciously accept victory.

walter,
Counterpunch is the one distorting the facts. Zelaya wanted to hold his referendum on term limits back near the end of june-early july, far in advance of the elections, in order to run for president again. That was an unconstitutional power grab, according to the Honduran Constitution. From the WaPo:

"The coup in Honduras is the most recent example of the trouble that arises from moves toward change on this front [term limits]. President Manuel Zelaya of Honduras was to oversee a non-binding referendum Sunday on his effort to alter the nation's constitution to allow him to seek a second term in office."

And this, from the same WaPo article:

"The one-term limit is commonplace in Latin America. It is meant as a legal check to ensure that the region's rich tradition of public corruption and political patronage could only last so long in some of these nations."
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2009/06/29/term_limits_and_constitutional.html

The reason for the constitutional term limit mandates in democratic Honduras is to PREVENT thug governments for trampling all over the people's rights, as happens far too often in Latin America.

You're wrong on this….but then I realize you must support those 9 brave anti-American Republicans.

That Post piece ain't worth the ones and zeros it wasted. The fact is this….a referendum is democratic, it was a non-binding resolution referendum at that. The big business defending Honduran military didn't even want the will of the people to be made known,…even if it was non-binding.

What's going on in Honduras is reminiscent of what's been going on in Latin America for a long time. Greedy capitalists want monopolistic powers over all things. American capitalists interfere there to expand their already rich kingdoms. American politicans do the will of those greedy capitalists. Thus the 9 GOP'ers.

The will of the Honduran people is never considered.

When you take the position you have here on Honduras, it's hard for me not to conclude that you favor capitalistic imperialism over the democratic will of the people.

King sez….."The reason for the constitutional term limit mandates in democratic Honduras is to PREVENT thug governments for trampling all over the people's rights, as happens far too often in Latin America."

actually, that would be to "PREVENT the DEMOCRATICALY ELECTED thug governments for trampling all over the people's rights"

certainly don't want that to happen

this from Justin Raimondo at libertarian website antiwar.com…….

"So what we have is this: a powerful group within the Democratic Party, clustered around Hillary Clinton, actively pushing for the legitimization of the Honduran coup on behalf of their corporate clients – Chiquita, which has a long and dishonorable history in the region, and the Honduran association of big businessmen, who have long used the state as their personal instrument.

This corporatist alliance is a logical ally of the Clintonistas, who – along with the neocons – have stepped up to the plate as the coup leaders’ leading apologists in Washington. After all, the corporatist model – in which the state acts on behalf of its big business backers, privileging their interests and subsidizing their projects at taxpayers’ expense – reached new heights of corruption under Bill Clinton."

King, so these nice republicans who you consider your fellow travelers are being used as tools of the Clintonistas and the neocons…….doesn't surprise me

http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2009/07/26/the-honduran-coup-and-the-clinton-connection/

this from Poliblog……..

"Today’s La Prensa (Si regresa Mel irá a prisión)1 has the exact question:

¿Está de acuerdo que en las elecciones generales de 2009 se instale una cuarta urna en la cual el pueblo decida la convocatoria a una asamblea nacional constituyente? = Sí…….ó………..No.

Translation:

Do you agree with the installation of a fourth ballot box during the 2009 general elections so that the people can decide on the calling of a national constituent assembly? Yes or no.

In other words: do you want there to be a ballot and a ballot box (Latin American elections often have one ballot per office and one ballot box per ballot) for the purpose of a referendum in November (alongside the presidential and congressional elections) to decide whether or not to call a constituent assembly to reform the constitution."

also……..

"Even if the plebiscite was allowed to go forward, the answer was “yes,” and the results were allowed to stand, Zelaya would not have been in a position to be re-elected in November."

this also from libertarian Justin Raimondo……

"This has nothing to do with term limits and everything to do with the unlimited greed of the Honduran oligarchy and its American corporate partners, who, acting in tandem with the U.S. government, have looted Honduras for decades. They feared Zelaya would put an end to their racket, so the U.S.-trained-and-supported army put an end to his presidency. In the end, the coup leaders will get their way, Zelaya’s supporters will have been put in their place, and the alleged threat represented by Hugo Chavez, the left-populist "Bolivarian," will have been turned back."

the Poliblog link is……….

http://www.poliblogger.com/?p=16138

What's the poliblogger's email address, walt?

Maybe something like frodolives@hobbitsfans.com?

larry….no comment?

Didn't think so

I've commented twice, walt. But you refuse to man up and tackle my insightful queries, as usual.

Rev says, "When you take the position you have here on Honduras, it's hard for me not to conclude that you favor capitalistic imperialism over the democratic will of the people."

I see we've entered Reverend's bizarro upside down world again. When the Honduran President Zelaya tries to overturn the constitution to insert himself as Dear Leader, one more in a long, long line of Latin dictators, which is exactly what the Honduran term limits are designed to prevent, the Reverend would have me believe that is the "democratic will of the people," when in fact it is just a doorway to continued Latin corruption. Term limits aren't effective when they can be so easily cast aside, and when elections can be easily rigged by the President in power.

And where did you come up with that "capitalistic imperialism" charge directed toward me, anyway ? That has nothing to do with this. Honduras is free to elect whatever type candidates they want in their next election, just not the term-limited Zelaya. You leftists sure are a propaganda-spewing bunch. I'll give you that.

Maybe you should start the Obama President For Life movement, Rev. All in the name of democracy, of course.

I'll mark you down as "for" anti-democratic military coups.

Everything you've said could be said as justification for the removal of Obama by a military coup, something the extremist right has already called for…and others are preparing for right now. (See my post today)

If Obama sends ACORN and his union thugs out to hold a fraudulent King For Life Referendum that the Supreme Court and Congress have deemed unconstitutional, I'd hope even you would support dragging him off in leg irons, Reverend. But probably not.

I'm not sure if you are aware of this…..but we have a very-familiar-to-Republicans-when-we-have-a Democratic-president…process, known as articles of impeachment.

But why follow our own democratic rules when a military coup sounds so exciting?

Bad news, Reverend liar….

The UN just released a report that said the Honduras "coup" was constitutional.

But it IS interesting to me that you think Obama has violated the US Constitution and deserves removal. Do tell.

I also have another question…..

Does anyone EVER think your unreal nonsense is correct ?

That would be a real announcement.

this from the U.N…..

Honduran president’s ouster is ‘coup d’état,’ UN Secretariat reaffirms

14 October 2009 – A recent Honduran media report implying that the United Nations Department of Political Affairs (DPA) does not consider the ouster of President José Manuel Zelaya as a coup d’état is inaccurate, the world body said today.
In a statement issued by his spokesperson, Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon noted that the UN position on the legality of Mr. Zelaya’s removal was clearly articulated by General Assembly Resolution 63/301 adopted on 1 July, which “condemns the coup d’état in the Republic of Honduras that has interrupted the democratic and constitutional order and the legitimate exercise of power in Honduras.”

The statement calls the report “highly misleading,” noting that it appears to refer to an analysis submitted by a consultant as representing DPA’s views. “The Department of Political Affairs routinely receives reports and analyses of this type from consultants, academics and other experts,” it added. “But its views are strictly in line with that outlined in the General Assembly Resolution.

“The Secretary-General urges the parties in Honduras to avoid distractions at this critical moment in the negotiations and remain focused on arriving at a consensual agreement to end the crisis in Honduras through dialogue. He continues to strongly support [the Organization of American States] OAS-led efforts to assist the parties in reaching a solution,” it concluded.

http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=32543&Cr=honduras&Cr1=