Charles Krauthammer, writing about end-of-life counseling, also known as 'Obama's attempt to kill old people'……. from today's Beacon…..
It's just that we (those favoring offering end-of-life counseling reimbursed by Medicare) want the doctors to talk to you about putting in place a living will and other such instruments. Really? Then consider the actual efficacy of a living will. When you are old, infirm and lying in the ICU with pseudomonas pneumonia and deciding whether to (a) go through the long antibiotic treatment or (b) allow what used to be called "the old man's friend" to take you away, the doctor will ask you at that time what you want for yourself — no matter what piece of paper you signed five years ago.
No need then, says Krauthammer, for a living will……not until you're almost dead…"old, infirm….with pseudomonas pneumonia."
Krauthammer 4 years ago….
"If I were in Terri Schiavo's condition, I would not want a feeding tube. But Schiavo does not have the means to make her intentions known. We do not know what she would have wanted. We have nothing to go on. No living will, no advance directives, no durable power of attorney.".
End-of-life counseling for Medicare patients wouldn't have stopped the Schiavo tragedy….but it can surely attenuate many tragedies-to-come. Human tragedies that could be prevented by making decisions ahead of time on end-of-life options. Not when you are almost dead, like Krauthammer suggests….but when you're amongst the living.
Krauthammer, again from 2005….
"Let's be clear about her condition. She is not dead. If she were brain-dead, we would be talking about harvesting her organs. She is a living, breathing human being. Some people have called her a vegetable. Apart from the term being disgusting, how do they know? How can we be sure of the complete absence of any consciousness, any awareness, any anything "inside" this person?"
End-of life counseling is meant for the specific purpose of preventing people like Krauthammer from making those decisions for us, you know, on pious, self-righteous, super-morality based whims…quietly dressed up in political garments.
Today's Krauthammer….
"My own living will, which I have always considered more a literary than legal document,….
I've never taken it terribly seriously because unless I'm comatose or demented, they're going to ask me at the time whether or not I want to be resuscitated if I go into cardiac arrest. The paper I signed years ago will mean nothing."
"Unless I'm comatose or demented"…..savor that thought for a moment.
That's the whole f*cking argument, Charles, you dumbass……If seniors are offered voluntary end-of-life counseling, reimbursed by Medicare…then, if a sick person becomes "comatose or demented", the loose ends have already been covered….wishes known.
What group of people have the highest chances of becoming "comatose or demented", Charles? Wouldn't it be the freaking seniors on Medicare?
Then the wheelchaired ClusterFox contributor tells us what's really on his mind…
"So why get Medicare to pay the doctor to do the counseling? Because we know that if this white-coated authority whose chosen vocation is curing and healing is the one opening your mind to hospice and palliative care, we've nudged you ever so slightly toward letting go.
It's not an outrage. It's surely not a death panel. But it is subtle pressure applied by society through your doctor. And when you include it in a health-care reform whose major objective is to bend the cost curve downward, you have to be a fool or a knave to deny that it's intended to gently point you in a certain direction, toward the corner of the sick room where stands a ghostly figure, scythe in hand, offering release."
All that after the Washington Post columnist opened his piece with this…
"But there are no "death panels" in the Democratic health-care bills, and to say that there are is to debase the debate."
Krauthammer's logic…..assuming he uses any, that is,…..?
End of life counseling reimbursed by Medicare is not a "death panel"…..oh, no….it is "pressure…to point you in a certain direction…where stands a ghostly figure, scythe in hand…"
But, by god, Charles is not saying Obama's health care reform includes "death panels." No, no. He's much, much too sophisticated and thoughtful for that.
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Charles nailed it on the 'fool or a knave' part.
No offense, Reverend.
Charles hasn't nailed anything in a very long time. Self-loathing, bitter projectionists, like Krauthammer, are why the country has become so dysfunctional.
Krauthammer doesn't have to be consistent, because he's a serious conservative in a wheelchair. Where a living will could have altered the Schiavo case, now any mention of one by your doctor is a call for the grim reaper. Spare me the bullsh*t-morality melodrama, Krauthammer is a media whore for the extreme right,……the authoritarian, reality denying, hypocritical, neo-conned, corporate enabling, radical right.
Um… Don't fear the reaper.
I said 'no offense,' Reverend.
Why mention the wheelchair so often?
The wheelchair, I'm surmising, is, at the very least, a partial source of Charles' bitterness.
And….I don't particularly like the man. Clear enough?
G-mann….Blue Oyster Cult was prophetic.
Whew. What a hyperactive overreaction to Krauthammer, Rev. You just can't stop demonizing people, can you ? Such hate speech.
Doctors have end of life counseling with patients all the time, right now, today. When the patient is too far gone, the conversation is had with family members. I can't think of a single reason to get the government involved.
In any case, isn't the point moot ? My understanding is that the end-of-life counseling has been removed from the health care bill.
Mr. King,
Do you really think that will end the death panel nonsense? Just because a death panel didn't exist didn't stop the protest over it.
Rev,
How does Krauthammer continue as a political pundit? I don't think he has ever been correct in his assertions.
Krauthammer, like Fox, is protected by the first amendment.
Something strange has been going on in American media over the last 15 years or so. Ours is now a competitive free market in information where you can purchase and view what you want to read and see. No longer are there a set of basic facts to any story. Everyone in this free market environment can have their own set of facts. There is no such thing as a "reporter" or a "journalist" being wrong anymore. Every media person who cheered on and defended the crime of Iraq, passing along verbatim the Bush lies, is still regarded today as a serious person in good standing.
In this environment, people like Kristol, Rove, Samuelson, Krauthammer, Brooks, Will, and a whole bunch of others can write any damn thing they want and never be held accountable…..because Americans have a right, by god, to the information they want.
Capitalistic media will be the final nail in America's casket. If facts and truth can no longer be agreed upon….like now……nothing of value can be accomplished.
You've got a real creepy view of our freedoms and "facts and truth," Reverend. You should take some history classes, maybe in Texas.
frank,
Mostly, the people I hear keeping the death panel talk going is the media. Sarah Palin makes a comment, Chuck Grassley makes a comment, and then this nonsense goes on for weeks in the media. I can only assume the media loves the ginned up controversy.
larry,
The Rev seems to exhibit a basic hatred towards freedoms of many stripes, whether it be free speech, free markets, low taxes, etc. It definitely is creepy.
He's even trying to rewrite Christianity out of American history on another thread. I guess religious freedom isn't too cool with him either.
What would be great would be even more extremist religious groups, you know, like the American right-wing evangelicals. More radical religious groups militantly coercing federal, state and local governments to impose their dogma on everybody. That would be great, wouldn't it?
Mr. King,
No doubt the death panel talk makes a great story. When a senator or someone who came too close to being next in line to the presidency are this ignorant or duplicitous, it should be all over the news. The real story is even simpler. Follow the money and see who represents whom.
Thanks for providing us with yet another example of the hate, Rev.
frank,
I don't think Palin's being duplicitous or ignorant. She's just overreacting to the specter of big government controlling health care. That scares people, but it doesn't mean those fears are justified. The GOP is playing on those fears. There is a legitimate issue about rationing of care, but I wish they'd stop hyping the death panel thing. The Dems aren't out to kill grandma, for chrissakes. That's just way over the top. I don't like it.
But if a Democrat said what Palin said, it would be on and off the news in a day, if it was covered at all. Dems get a total media pass for all sorts of the same lies and exaggerations that Republicans are pilloried over endlessly. The media is using the distraction of death panels to avoid the real discussions of health care, just like they used the townhall protesters to erect the whole astroturf smokescreen.
You guys should be flattered by Sarah's demonizing. This is just a page out of your playbook.
The only thing that could be making you angry was if you considered it plagiarism.
Mr. King,
So Dems get a pass on such things and the media pillories poor Ms. Palin who just overreacted a teensy weensy bit. Gimme a break. It doesn't take much research to discover the source of her remarks. I'll retract my remarks about Grassley and Palin being duplicitous and ignorant. They are really being cynically exploitive.
That's the proper two words, frank.
frank,
I can't even agree with you without having you argue with me. What's up with that ?
As an example of how the Dems get away with it….
Obama is telling us he's going to insure 47 million more people and reduce costs at the same time. He's telling us he's going to improve health care choice by more heavily regulating the insurance industry and telling us which insurance companies we can use. He's telling us health care (a finite resource, like all resources) won't be rationed while he adds 47 million more to the insurance rolls (with the same number of doctors). He makes one illogical statement after another.
Obama told us his stimulus plan had to be passed or it would be "catastrophic." Five months later, only 10% of the stimulus funds had been spent.
Obama broke promises about public campaign financing, raising taxes on the non-rich, no lobbyists in his administration, holding the health care discussions on C-SPAN, allowing people to view bills for five days before signing them, executive signing statements, NAFTA, Pork, ending income tax for seniors making less than $50,000, a $3000 tax credit for companies that add jobs, allowing penalty-free hardship withdrawals from retirement accounts, recognizing the Armenian genocide, bipartisanship (only Dems are writing stimulus and health care bills)…
Obama has been the most snide and partisan President in memory, always attacking his opponents, even when they are merely radio or tv people like Glenn Beck or Rush Limbaugh. Never have I seen a President so petty and thin-skinned.
I could go on and on. And that's just one Dem, Obama. In the meantime, the media gives him a near complete pass, and instead obsesses for weeks over two words Palin wrote on Facebook, 20 seconds of shouting at a townhall meeting, or whatever Limbaugh said today. It's a joke. We don't even have a mainstream news media. Instead, we have closet advocates who aren't even that closeted to anyone paying attention.
Palin has a gift for cutting Obama off at the knees with a quip or phrase. Of course "death panel" was such a piece of hyperbole, as she has explained quite clearly since that time. The lefties and the press hope to label reps as nutcases with the phrase, but it has backfired and folks are sick of the demonization.
I'd be curious to learn about your research into the 'source of her remarks,' frank, though your past efforts in the research department have been spotty at best.
So, tell me larry….do you honest to god expect me to believe that Palin is the one being victimized when she's the one who is accusing Obama of wanting to kill old people? I mean…is it the dyslexia, or what? Palin has a gift of being f*cking nuts, that's her gift….but because she was the closest thing to a Paris Hilton match the Republicans could come up with on short notice, they, you know, went with her.
Obama is setting up death panels to kill seniors……oh, you know, just hyperbole. My ass.
Mr. King,
Sorry if I seem argumentative. I just can't accept people like Grassley and Palin, ostensibly leaders, using their positions to inflame the public with lies. They are playing a dangerous game for political advantage, and we'll be lucky if no one is seriously hurt or killed.
What makes you think Obama is getting away with it? He is naturally getting pummeled by the right wing's Mighty Wurlitzer media at the same time he is alienating those who voted for him by retreating from his promise. If he blows health care, as appears almost certain, he will have to pull a pretty shiny rabbit out of the hat to win a second term. The public is on to the corporatist Democrat's game.
larry d.,
Sorry, dude. Ain't going to play your game. Do your own research.
So you've got nothing again, frank? It's okay to state your opinions, so why even pretend?
It must be so humiliating.
larry d.,
No, I just have nothing that you will accept. So why bother?
You've never bothered when your phoney baloney statistics or parrot talking points are even mildly questioned, frank. It hurts your credibility.
Reverend, did you read her explanation of what she meant by death panels? It was pretty cogent; more cogent and detailed than anything Obama has said about the bill, in fact.
But I suppose it's easier for you to fall back on the bigoted demonizing.
larry d.,
Every time I read one of your posts, I can't help imagining you finishing typing and setting back and saying, "So there, nyah, nyah, nyah, nyah". It's obvious that you are not remotely interested in anything but convincing yourself of your cleverness. I will admit that it is sometimes fun to play on this level but only because you tend to lead with your chin. So, I'll go with the loss of my credibility.
frank,
Yes, Obama is being pummeled by the right wing media, just as Bush was pummeled by the left wing media. That's to be expected. That's also not what I was referring to. I was referring to Obama being given a pass by what we laughingly refer to as the "mainstream media" in this country (which is really the Democrat media).
Palin says two words, "death panels," and there's weeks of coverage.
Obama does everything I mentioned in my last post. and most of it hasn't even been reported in the mainstream media. Keep in mind, Obama is the PRESIDENT. The most powerful man in the country. What he does MATTERS. Palin doesn't even hold public office anymore.
frank,
Check this link out. It's Palin's latest Facebook statement about health care. Tell me if you think it's a pack of lies, or "f*cking nuts," as the Reverend so thoughtfully put it.
http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=120607013434
frank, you seem to be obsessed with my posting. If you don't want to be deflated in a line or two, write something beyond easily debunked phoney baloney stats and basically dishonest talking points.
Your earlier post is a good example. You seemed to claim there was some mysterious 'source' behind Palin's remarks, yet when questioned on the point you won't name the source or make the argument.
Mr. King,
Palin has softened her rhetoric from "death panels" who were going to kill her child and grandparents, to "government having control over families medical decisions". The latter may be less bombastic, but just as inaccurate. The rest of her screed is about tort reform, as if malpractice lawsuits were the driving factor in skyrocketing increases in medical costs. I'm no expert on the subject, but from what I read, it is a minor factor. Apparently, California has put limits on malpractice suit awards and it had no effect on insurance premiums.
I know of all those broken promises by Obama. As I see it, the man is a bigger disappointment than Clinton and you know that I consider Clinton a traitor to the working class. My knowledge of those broken promises comes primarily from progressive bloggers and what you call the "Democratic" media. I'm predicting a one term presidency, with the desertion of progressives as a major cause.
She didn't soften her stance, frank. It was clear what she was referring to in the first place but she had to explain it again because the lefty blogs and news shows jumped on the 'death panel' phrase in an attempt to make her look kooky.
It backfired because most Americans are tired of the kneejerk demonization coming from the left.