Thanks for answering, frank. Since you answered my question, I'll try to answer yours. Yes, there's obviously a difference between interrogation and punishment, but there is no difference in the moral absolute of the acts involved. Putting a man in solitary confinement in a box for 40 years is WORSE than waterboarding, whatever the reason. Even the Bush OLC memos defined mental torture as something causing prolonged harm and/or pain, which would not apply to waterboarding, but would apply to 40 years of solitary. Just because we call it punishment as opposed to interrogation doesn't matter a bit in a moral sense. If you want to draw that line as the distinction, then let's just say we waterboarded KSM as punishment for killing nearly 3,000 Americans on 9/11. If that's all we did, KSM would have gotten off very light. However, waterboarding KSM as an interrogatory device to extract information that could save other innocent lives has more merit from a moral standpoint than merely doing it as punishment.

Sorry I didn't choose between doors 1, 2, and 3. I ain't playing that game.

Defending torture is part of the definition of being anti-American. Torturing prisoners runs a 180 on what America is all about.

Killing a person is also acceptable (as punishment, we call it the death penalty).

But pouring water over someone's face through a towel for 15 seconds is a most grievous and barbaric offense against humanity, even if it is done to save innocent lives.

Got it. That's all I needed to know. You guys are moral paragons.

And neither of you answered my question about which of the three punishments YOU would prefer. I think I can safely assume it was because we all know that we'd all pick waterboarding over the others in a heartbeat.

But I suppose what you are really asking is whether option 2 or 3 are also torture. In my view, and the view of the courts, is that neither constitute torture. While I understand the harshness of isolation, I think some crimes are heinous enough to warrant that punishment. I don't agree with capital punishment but I don't think it is torture. But waterboarding is, and it is considered torture regardless as to who performs it or on whom.

Once an "enemy" has been captured….waterboarding, or killing him is a crime.

al-Qaeda, under the direction of Bin Laden, attacked our country. Going after them, yes, to kill them, was a matter of self-defense.

Torturing them, once they're captured, is barbaric and a violation of national and international law.

None of this is new.

I propose both you and frank answer the following multiple choice question.

Which punishment would you prefer to undergo personally ?

1) Waterboarding
2) Be killed
3) Sit rotting in prison in isolation for the rest of your life

Well, fellas ?

You want facts. Then join the majority of people who want these facts established in front of Congress or the courts. The fact is that Obama doesn't want to pull on this loose thread for fear that the widespread corruption that is Washington will unravel like a cheap suit.

larry d.,
Sorry I couldn't condense it to bumper sticker size. My hat's off to you as the king of the two sentence snark.

Mr. King,
Careful, some of you entourage might think you are going soft on capital punishment.

19 lucky unarmed Islamic f*ckers drew the winning jihad lottery ticket on 9-11. They were international criminals willing to kill themselves to make a statement of fear to America.

The Bush f*ckers parlayed that event into the torturing of captives to falsify "evidence" justifying an attack of Iraq. They outed a CIA agent to punish the Wilson's over revealing Bush's fraud-up to war. These are not coincidences.

The United States was controlled for 6 years by a criminal administration and a complicit, cover-up GOP Congress, who, together, temporarily overthrew the rule of law and the Constitution. This isn't fellatio,….this isn't even ordering a break-in of Democratic Headquarters….this is treason. The very definition of treason.

The revelations over the last 10 days have only vindicated what I've been blogging about for years.

Many liberals and Democrats were fooled by the Iraq fraud-up. Many currently popular liberal bloggers were in favor of the Iraq attack. I never was. It was crystal clear from January, 2002 that the Bushies were pulling a fast one on the American people. The media helped the Bushies all they could.

It took awhile, but the majority of Americans caught on to the scam. Thus the elections of 2006, 2008.

Losing elections is all the GOP has to look forward to if they saddle themselves to torture.

Frank says, "Let him rot in solitary with minimal food and care for sustenance."

Let the record note that both the Rev and Frank's proposed fates for KSM and company are far more extreme measures than being waterboarded or placed in a cold environment for a short time.

I think you're right, larry. They're just doing this for kicks.