It was a great speech but it looks like Wright's inflammatory statements have more legs.

Balladeer, I'll always fight for your right to express yourself….but I don't think we agree on this….

"200+ years of slavery is a poor excuse for the failures of blacks in 2008. In 1950, 70% of black children weren't illegitimate.

Blacks who are successful today are those who have done what is necessary to conform to the standards required, just as I and every other successful individual has had to conform. But these black folks are accused by you and other race-hustlers as "not being black enough" or "uncle toms" or "house slaves". That is where the "not without" comes from."

What I'm saying is that it's BOTH. Personal responsibility is vital….plus….the scars of a less than stellar history of blacks in America haven't been overcome. I take it that you don't agree.

I do agree with you on the personal responsibility stuff….but your inclusion of the 70% number of black births to single mothers…by choosing to use the word "illegimate" to describe these children….I don't find to be honest or helpful.

Is the 70% number really that much worse than the 50% white number?

I'm not familiar with Peterson. If he's trying to change the way young black men and women regard personal responsibility and accountability…..how could I be against it? Don't white preachers do the same? I'm not against that either.

You say…

"Instead of coming clean and rejecting outright the blatant racism of a man he admired and supported financially for twenty years, he wimped-out."

I didn't take Wright's comments as blatant racism. Obama must not have either. Though Obama did denounce the more volatile HIV and God damn America comments.

It just seems like those who are still worked up about Wright/Obama are being unreasonable. Would you patently reject a family member if they said whacky stuff? I'm not talking about rejecting the stuff said, which Obama did, but the person, themselves.

Finally….I can't relate to your use of "successful". Success is determined many ways. I've met many financially successful blacks. I don't equate success with financial standing necessarily. Maybe that's not what you're saying.

200+ years of slavery is a poor excuse for the failures of blacks in 2008. In 1950, 70% of black children weren't illegitimate.

Blacks who are successful today are those who have done what is necessary to conform to the standards required, just as I and every other successful individual has had to conform. But these black folks are accused by you and other race-hustlers as "not being black enough" or "uncle toms" or "house slaves". That is where the "not without" comes from. When blacks do everything they can, from a personal standpoint, to get along and conform, they are successful. The 200+ years and history of inequality arguement is a sorry excuse for sociopathic behaviors.

You mention Buchanan often. I couldn't care less about what Buchanan thinks.

I notice you completely ignored my reference to the Reverend Jesse Lee Peterson. Was that purely a matter of convenience?
I would really like to see what you have to say about a black man who promotes individual responsibility from the pulpit, and not hate, excuses and propaganda.

"It takes tremendous courage and fortitude to admit the problem lies within, and not without."

You were doing okay with this sentence until you added, "and not without".

I stated and I will state again…..No one is making excusing for the lack of personal responsibility. No one is simply discarding the obligation of personal responsibility. I'm certainly not….I know Obama is not.

However, you, by saying "not without", are suggesting that the problems of blacks have nothing to do with the 200+ years of historical enslavement and refusal to grant civil rights blacks have experienced in the U.S.

From what I can gather here, you kind of agree with Buchanan.

"The Sharptons and the Wrights of America lack this courage and fortitude, and it appears that you do, as well."

You may not like the style or the words used by these men, just as you may not like The Reverend's style or wording. Buchanan certainly doesn't. However to suggest that means they, or I, lack courage and fortitude, to confront problems head on…is simply a silly right wing talking point withour merit.

Obama spoke courageously and with guts to both whites and blacks, stripping away the smartass white and black racism excuses always used to justify hate and a continuation of the problem of intolerance. And folks like you and King rejected Obama's speech as not good enough….as not going far enough.

Talking out of both sides of your mouth.

There is this thing called, "historical grief" or "Inherited Historical Post Traumatic Stress Disorder", but mostly, it has been served up by Native American descendents who have made it into the world of academia and have done empirical research backed up by great institutions—but any group that has suffered unfairly can claim it (Inherited Historical PTSD), because, certainly, oral narratives obsessing on the hurts that have accumulated are passed from generation to generation around kitchen tables and trickles into the church, as well. We are taught to never forget, but some are taught also to forgive, and start looking at people with a clean eye, as well.

Down at the nitty, gritty level, it is families that make the difference in a child's life—but much of the skills needed to be successful must become part of the family—such as knowing how to study, pay attention, listen, not let inherited anger get in the way of keeping open, letting go of grudges, starting over. We can observe this evolutionary process within the black families and Native American families.

The question here: Why do some families succeed against all odds? My guess is that these families, whether led by a single mom, or grandparents who have stepped in, or by necessity have had to take over, or through great educators with patience and fortitude and a deep compassion and intuitive sense, realize that others make it because they never give in to anger and hatred, whether espoused by the relevant cultural narrative, or by society's ugliness towards them.

It takes time. We are witnessing this as it happens. Be patient.

So you did say 'spouting hate and victimhood' about the white preachers, which I read as 'racism', since that was the subject we were discussing.

I must be going to all the wrong Christian churches, because I've never heard one preacher ever spout hate for Muslims, illegal immigrants, other christians, or anyone else. The only exception I have is the denunciation of gay marriage. That I have heard a couple times.

Trying to draw a moral equivalence between being in favor of prayer in schools and what Rev. Jeremiah Wright said from the pulpit is an exercise in dishonesty.

"Balladeer: Do you simply hate the Sharpton's, Jackson's etc? Or is it all blacks? And if you only despise the Jeremiah Wrights out there, is it because they say stuff you don't want to hear? Is that it?

Or is it that when the Jacksons and the Wrights out there speak up, like Buchanan says, you want them to be more appreciative of whites?"

Reverend, don't tiptoe around the real issues with meaningless queries, and don't try to put words in my mouth. As anyone can see, I am quite capable of expressing my own opinions. If there is a point you would like clarified, just ask, don't rant. If you can present a credible rebuttal to what I've written, we can have a meaningful debate.

It's easy to ignore the hard fact of self-destructive behaviors being at the root of the black experience. It takes tremendous courage and fortitude to admit the problem lies within, and not without. The Sharptons and the Wrights of America lack this courage and fortitude, and it appears that you do, as well. The Reverend Jesse Lee Peterson has this courage and fortitude, and speaks out every chance he gets. He's not as popular among blacks as the race-hustlers, because he doesn't say what they want to hear. I believe the truth is hard, very hard, against the wicked.

Collectively, blacks are still victims of being undereducated. You would say that's the blacks fault. You approach it from an individual responsibility point of view. One that I don't fully disagree with. At the same time, historically and as a collective group, blacks have been victimized for so long, that being undereducated is one of the cumulative effects.

I said "spouting hate and victimhood". Far right evangelical preachers spout hate for secularists, undocumenteds, Muslims, other Christian denominations,…and they spout victimhood every opportunity they have. War on Christmas malarkey. Victims of no prayer in public school. Victims of the meanie secularists who don't want the state to fund their nonsense. Etc.

I'm not clear on why it is that you don't see this white preacher, black preacher stuff. Conservative Christianity, and specifically extremist right, pie-in-the-sky, evangelical Christianity have been spouting and advocating for intolerance, hate and division in America for a good long time.

You are upset about a black separatist who mouths off using wild-eyed hyperbole…..but you don't seem to be able to apply the same criticisms towards white separatists who mouth off using wild-eyed hyperbole.